[Not a] Bike Pump Keg [Evolution]

[The Pol]

Insco2 sells kegs here on HBT for like 17 or 18 bucks... I bought from him, as have about 100 other members. $35 for a kegs is robbery, it is easy to find them for much less.

 

[BrewingBetterBeer]

I'm going to need to get a kegging setup going soon!

Starting to have to many batches running at once!

 

[Domminigan]

But is it safe? I think that has been the main crux of this.

The cost of kegging is not all that expensive. A Regulator, a few Kegs, and a party tap. Not much dough.

One doesn't need a 4 tap kegerator when just starting out. A few kegs can fit in a spare fridge with the regulator & party tap.

The current idea of the epoxy/plastic idea really isn't safe, no. Fairly well all who have weighed in on this idea with reasonable comments have agreed on this point. That is the reason that I stated that some future incarnation of the idea could be a safe, economical, temporary solution to a financial issue... at least that's what I should have said if I didn't.

Kegging isn't that expensive to many of us, but some people are in a situation where even the minor cost of a hundred and fifty bucks for a fully setup fridge with a tap is a bit too much without saving for it first. Currently, they will simply have to make do without. That's not such a bad thing at all, as it makes that first keg that much sweeter.

All I'm saying is keep trying, make it safer, avoid loss of extremities, and a future idea might just pan out. Oh, and don't use glue on the outside of anything to hold a pressurized fitting. I don't want to be picking fingers off my windshield in Kansas.

 

[Schlenkerla]

The current idea of the epoxy/plastic idea really isn't safe,...

... All I'm saying is keep trying, make it safer, avoid loss of extremities, and a future idea might just pan out. Oh, and don't use glue on the outside of anything to hold a pressurized fitting. I don't want to be picking fingers off my windshield in Kansas.

I knew what you meant. I too like seeing cheap, safe and innovative ideas. I was just emphasizing those points. I think you could get away not having a dedicated beer fridge with 5L kegs.

 

[pizzaman]

For anyone who missed my other posts....I'm not using glue/epoxy/cement/anything of the sort. I've tried every hardware and auto parts store in my area and haven't found a hose clamp to fit the 1/8 vinyl tubing...my last resort will be a plumber supply shop down the road. Still just waiting on the clamps before I can do any testing....

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

So, did anyone blow up their carboy yet???

I figure it's going to happen sooner or later...and when it does, I want to see some pics of the carnage!

 

[pizzaman]

Insco2 sells kegs here on HBT for like 17 or 18 bucks... I bought from him, as have about 100 other members. $35 for a kegs is robbery, it is easy to find them for much less.

According to insco2 on his thread here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f16/cornelius-kegs-sale-46176/ He is selling them for $17.50 each, plus shipping, plus you have to buy 4 at a time. So I would have to spend $100 to start out with, and that doesn't include the regulators or co2 tank...I'm sure this is a great deal for all you rich folk out there, but it's not very tempting at all for us lowely college students.

I'm still searching for small enough hose clamps in my off time...been busy with school and work..

 

[flylock_jac]

Look into the thread where someone converted a garden sprayer into a keg.
You've already bought most the parts and you can buy a new sprayer( 2-3 gallon ) for about 20.00 buck dollars. Then install your tire valve and a cheap tap and your good to go.
It's already been done ,so it's a proven system.

 

[Schlenkerla]

According to insco2 on his thread here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f16/cornelius-kegs-sale-46176/ He is selling them for $17.50 each, plus shipping, plus you have to buy 4 at a time. So I would have to spend $100 to start out with, and that doesn't include the regulators or co2 tank...I'm sure this is a great deal for all you rich folk out there, but it's not very tempting at all for us lowely college students.

I'm still searching for small enough hose clamps in my off time...been busy with school and work..

Too some degree I see your point, you prolly don't have space for 20 gallons of beer. I'd consider saving cash & bottle. I didn't take you for student.

A summer job will easily pay for 4 kegs and a regulator/party tap/gas line. Stay in for a weekend or two don't blow extra cash on BS you don't need. You'll be glad you did.

I bought this stuff while unemployed with a kid. I'm not rich, just a bit frugal right now.

Look into the thread where someone converted a garden sprayer into a keg.
You've already bought most the parts and you can buy a new sprayer( 2-3 gallon ) for about 20.00 buck dollars. Then install your tire valve and a cheap tap and your good to go.
It's already been done ,so it's a proven system.

This is an option, but I'd go with the mini-kegs before shelling out cash for a weed sprayer.

I have a bit of pride myself. I don't relish sharing a beer with a friend tapping a beer out of an Ortho bottle. Even if I know its not been used with Ortho, others will think WTF. Now if you were living West VA it might be different!!

 

[Bobby_M]

I cleaned out a guy's garage of about 25 kegs for $5 each. It's a shame that the people that need to find them cheap rarely do. Keep scouring CL and call every beverage distributor you can find in the phone book.

 

[flyangler18]

The 5L kegs are such a brilliant solution to you. Convenient size (1.3 gallons) so easy to drain, reusable (buy good beer in mini-keg, disassemble and sanitize, rack and prime, dispense via gravity tap). While I haven't been using them long nor as my sole dispensing option, there are a couple members here who have been using them for a LONG time. I use mine to do cask-conditioned real ale (gently carbonated). If one goes south, I buy another 5L keg from my distributor, invite a friend over to quaff with me, and I've got another one in the rotation.

Consider it. Seriously.

You're bound to find some cornies if you look hard enough at a price you can afford. Just takes patience and some investigative skill.

Good luck!

 

[bnscherm]

For anyone who missed my other posts....I'm not using glue/epoxy/cement/anything of the sort. I've tried every hardware and auto parts store in my area and haven't found a hose clamp to fit the 1/8 vinyl tubing...my last resort will be a plumber supply shop down the road. Still just waiting on the clamps before I can do any testing....

I think 1/8" hose is too small for hose clamps, you need oetiker clamps (expensive). I think your best bet is to use some zip-ties if you're using soft vinyl hose.

 

[pizzaman]

The 5L kegs are such a brilliant solution to you. Convenient size (1.3 gallons) so easy to drain, reusable (buy good beer in mini-keg, disassemble and sanitize, rack and prime, dispense via gravity tap). While I haven't been using them long nor as my sole dispensing option, there are a couple members here who have been using them for a LONG time. I use mine to do cask-conditioned real ale (gently carbonated). If one goes south, I buy another 5L keg from my distributor, invite a friend over to quaff with me, and I've got another one in the rotation.

Consider it. Seriously.

You're bound to find some cornies if you look hard enough at a price you can afford. Just takes patience and some investigative skill.

Good luck!

After some careful consideration, I'm gonna go with the 5L mini-keg solution. I'm sure I'll keep tinkering with my other ideas, but my school schedule is now taking up too much of my time to make any real headway...

I'll be shopping for some beer tomorrow, hopefully be able to find some in a 5L that I can reuse. I'm assuming the bottom-tapped gravity fed mini-kegs are what I want to go with...also assuming that as long as I keep it pressurized with co2 oxygenation won't be a problem and the beer won't go flat.

[EDIT]And of course, as soon as I accepted this, I find this page: http://www.beveragesystem.com/ [/EDIT]

 

[JesseRC]

Well I'm just glad you've finally come around and didn't blow yourself up. Doesnt it feel good to assimilate!

 

[pizzaman]

[CHANT]One of us, One of us...[/CHANT]

 

[the_bird]

So, who won the pool?

 

[flyangler18]

I'm assuming the bottom-tapped gravity fed mini-kegs are what I want to go with...also assuming that as long as I keep it pressurized with co2 oxygenation won't be a problem and the beer won't go flat.

Well...not really. If you are using the gravity-tap, oxygen will be introduced so the beer will slowly oxidize - but we're talking 1.3 gallons and that beer should be well and gone before you'd even taste a touch of oxidation.

There are also 5L kegs sans gravity tap that you can use a small CO2 setup to push the beer. These kegs aren't designed to take inordinate amounts of pressure as in force-carbing, so you'll prime with sugar as in bottling.

 

[pizzaman]

Well...not really. If you are using the gravity-tap, oxygen will be introduced so the beer will slowly oxidize - but we're talking 1.3 gallons and that beer should be well and gone before you'd even taste a touch of oxidation.

How is air going to get into a gravity fed tap? I understand this would happen if there were no co2 involved in the system, as air would enter through the tap to take up the space left by the evacuating beer...but if pressurized co2 is literally forcing the beer down then there would be no space left for air to fill right? I do agree that once I tap a gallon of beer it would be gone within a couple of hours, but I would like to have the option to stop drinking and keep the remainder fresh.

 

[flyangler18]

How is air going to get into a gravity fed tap?

There's a vent that needs to be opened on top for the tap to dispense freely. You know how tough it is to pour a glass of milk from a freshly opened gallon? Same principle.

The other option is something like this. Same 5L mini-kegs (sans gravity tap), but uses a small CO2 system to push.

 

[JesseRC]

Pizzaman, can you confirm. What will you be using for dispensing beer from them. I know you said you would be looking to buy the kegs with the bottom tap on them, but I dont see where u said you would use it that way.

 

[pizzaman]

I'll be using the bottom tap when appropriate(parties, bbq's), by hooking up a co2 regulator to the top to keep pressure and prevent any air from entering the tap. I'll also use a picnic-tap (similar to this setup: The Northern Brewer Homebrew Forum • View topic - New design for DIY 5L mini keg taps (Lots of Pics)) at other times(golfing, tubing) when the mini-kegs will be stored in a cooler and the bottom tap won't work as well.

Again, I do understand that if I were to use only the bottom tap without any co2 system, oxidation would occur, but as long as I keep the keg pressurized with co2 there should be no way for air to ever touch the beer.

 

[flyangler18]

I'll be using the bottom tap when appropriate(parties, bbq's), by hooking up a co2 regulator to the top to keep pressure and prevent any air from entering the tap. I'll also use a picnic-tap (similar to this setup: The Northern Brewer Homebrew Forum • View topic - New design for DIY 5L mini keg taps (Lots of Pics)) at other times(golfing, tubing) when the mini-kegs will be stored in a cooler and the bottom tap won't work as well.

Again, I do understand that if I were to use only the bottom tap without any co2 system, oxidation would occur, but as long as I keep the keg pressurized with co2 there should be no way for air to ever touch the beer.

It's going to have to be one or the other - not both. The design you have linked is applying pressure via an external CO2, so it can't use the gravity tap. Those kegs pictured need either that DIY solution or the Phil tap system I linked earlier to dispense. The gravity tap kegs are best consumed in one or two days, because there's no way that I can see to avoid oxygen contact. You need air going in to let the beer out, just like the pony pump for Sanke kegs.

 

[pizzaman]

It's going to have to be one or the other - not both. The design you have linked is applying pressure via an external CO2, so it can't use the gravity tap. Those kegs pictured need either that DIY solution or the Phil tap system I linked earlier to dispense. The gravity tap kegs are best consumed in one or two days, because there's no way that I can see to avoid oxygen contact. You need air going in to let the beer out, just like the pony pump for Sanke kegs.

You do need gas going in to let the beer out, but why does it need to be air? If there was a co2 tank & regulator hooked up to the hole in the top it would keep the keg pressurized, forcing the beer to the bottom of the keg where the tap is. This would prevent any air from ever touching the beer. Again it's only a gallon so it's not a huge deal, but I'm pretty sure my limited understanding of basic physics is correct here....maybe I'll just build it and take pics/movs to show it working(or not working for whatever reason).

 

[Bobby_M]

You're talking about a hybrid situation in that it's a keg/tap design that is meant for a gravity drain where ambient air replaces the beer. However, you're modifying the original design to pressurize the keg with CO2 to make up for the missing beer. In this use, it really don't matter if the tap is on the bottom or if it were on the top with a dip tube connected.

 

[flyangler18]

You're talking about a hybrid situation in that it's a keg/tap design that is meant for a gravity drain where ambient air replaces the beer. However, you're modifying the original design to pressurize the keg with CO2 to make up for the missing beer. In this use, it really don't matter if the tap is on the bottom or if it were on the top with a dip tube connected.

I'll defer to your expertise here, Bobby - I could well be talking directly out of my ass. I'd have to think that an external CO2 tank and regulator would put too much pressure on this keg to make for a smooth pour when the taps are designed for a gravity feed and ambient air coming in at atmospheric pressure.

Of course, I could be (and readily admit) completely and utterly wrong.

 

[pizzaman]

You're talking about a hybrid situation in that it's a keg/tap design that is meant for a gravity drain where ambient air replaces the beer. However, you're modifying the original design to pressurize the keg with CO2 to make up for the missing beer. In this use, it really don't matter if the tap is on the bottom or if it were on the top with a dip tube connected.

So as long as co2 is connected, whether I'm using the bottom tap or a dip-tube top tap, the co2 will keep everything pressurized and out of harms way, preventing any oxidation. Sounds like a plan to me. :rockin:

 

[flyangler18]

So as long as co2 is connected, whether I'm using the bottom tap or a dip-tube top tap, the co2 will keep everything pressurized and out of harms way, preventing any oxidation. Sounds like a plan to me. :rockin:

Just remember that these kegs aren't designed to take the pressure of force carbing, so you'll have to use an appropriate amount of priming sugar and rack the beer into them as you would a bottle.

 

[JesseRC]

And use about 2psi to dispense from bottom tap.

 

[pizzaman]

Just remember that these kegs aren't designed to take the pressure of force carbing, so you'll have to use an appropriate amount of priming sugar and rack the beer into them as you would a bottle.

True story. Is there any reason doing a bulk prime using 3/4 cup of corn sugar for 5 gallons wouldn't work for bottling a 5L? Or should I just bottle the 5L separately and use the recommended 1 Tablespoon priming sugar in it?

 

[dontman]

True story. Is there any reason doing a bulk prime using 3/4 cup of corn sugar for 5 gallons wouldn't work for bottling a 5L? Or should I just bottle the 5L separately and use the recommended 1 Tablespoon priming sugar in it?

No reason to not bulk prime. You just do it with a smaller amount of priming sugar. The recommended quantity is 3 oz. I use 4 oz.

I used to split my batch - 2 minis and 1 case of bottles. I would first prime the whole batch with 3 oz fill the two minis, then add another ounce of sugar and bottle.

I used the Party Star tap system. It worked rather well but it is very tall. It would not fit in my fridge standing upright. So I bought a new fridge that would accommodate the keg and tap on the door shelf.

 

[Bobby_M]

The only thing is, force carbing at "set and forget" pressures is actually exactly the same as having said beer in the container already carbed. Bulk priming will likely exceed those pressures for a short time similar to "burst" force carbing or In-a-hurry carbing (whatever) because the fermentation can create high pressures in the headspace prior to the beer absorbing the CO2. Therefore, it's actually safer to apply CO2 pressure, while the beer is cold, than it would be to sugar prime.

 

[pizzaman]

Just got back from HEB-Central Market..picking up some fancy beers for my b-day. Got me a 5L Spaten Mini Keg for $20. Not bad considering I've seen empty mini-kegs sell for $15 online(with shipping).

Next on my list, $10 CO2 regulator(https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/looking-cheap-co2-regulators-105595/).

 

[JesseRC]

oh no! here we go again, you cannot use those regulators for CO2. THose are air regulators. They will not handle the pressure from CO2 canisters.

Ok.. I take it back , i read further down the thread. I guess if you can find 10 dollar CO2 reg then it will work

 

[flyangler18]

Before you can hook up a regulator, you'll need a two-piece bung to replace the vent in the top of the keg.

Stock up now, they're cheap.

 

[JesseRC]

Have you started building your top co2 valve? By the way, I know Harbor Freight carries those paintball regulators for like brad nailers and such. Similiar to the Lowes one. I used the lowes one this weekend. I know the pressure dial is hard to calibrate, but I was able to keep it below 5psi on my 3 gal cornies.

Damn... I can't find it there anymore. It was about 40 bucks. Looked like this :

 

[pizzaman]

Unfortunately I have to wait until the end of the month before I can buy anything else; I've tapped out my homebrew budget for the month. This is the $10 co2 regulator I'll be buying:

The nice part is they screw directly onto the top of a paintball co2 canister, which I already own. So the only adapter I'll need is to go from the output to my bungholeban. They cost about $30 at pet stores, a store on ebay has em for $15 w/shipping. Hopefully he'll still have some by the time I get around to buying it.

Considering it's only $15, I may be able to talk swmbo into letting me buy it now so we'll have it for my bday party...then I can just use the bottom tap until I get another $30 or so to spend on hooking up a tee with my cobra tap to the bunghole.(yep, i like saying bunghole)

 

[JesseRC]

I know you are in SA, what pet stores have you seen these in. $30 is pretty reasonable, especially when you consider some of the co2 bottles cost that much. As for the brew fund, yes I know how that is. Good luck.

 

[pizzaman]

I know you are in SA, what pet stores have you seen these in. $30 is pretty reasonable, especially when you consider some of the co2 bottles cost that much. As for the brew fund, yes I know how that is. Good luck.

I've never actually seen these in a physical pet store here in SA yet..only on petstore websites...I dunno though, petsmart may carry them at times. But if it's 1/2 price to buy one from Hong Kong or whatever crazy place then I'd say it's worth the 2 weeks you have to wait for shipping.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Have you started building your top co2 valve? By the way, I know Harbor Freight carries those paintball regulators for like brad nailers and such. Similiar to the Lowes one. I used the lowes one this weekend. I know the pressure dial is hard to calibrate, but I was able to keep it below 5psi on my 3 gal cornies.

Damn... I can't find it there anymore. It was about 40 bucks. Looked like this :

I think I bought the last one!!! Its now discontinued.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/cheap-portable-gas-set-up-111133/

 

[dontman]

You know. They do make CO2 taps for mini-kegs. Complete with diptube and faucet.

(And that black and red bung IS a two piece bung. You can tap right through it. )

The tap is around $50. It uses 16 g CO2 cartridges. Seems cheaper with a whole lot less aggravation than the route you are discussing. I thought the whole point with moving to the 5L kegs was that you were moving to a tried and tested system.