[Not a] Bike Pump Keg [Evolution]

[JesseRC]

So what are you gonna use your paintball tank and reg for, the 3L kegs?

 

[pizzaman]

I'll be using the 9oz co2 with the regulator to dispense beer from the kegs. Until I get a kegerator and larger co2 tank I'll be naturally carbonating them using priming sugar.

 

[bendavanza]

Pizzaman
When you go on a co2 tank search, look for local fire safety equipment dealers. They usually have reconditioned co2 tanks for cheap, like 15# for $50, and that's hydro tested and full. Fills are cheaper at those shops, too.

 

[pizzaman]

Pizzaman
When you go on a co2 tank search, look for local fire safety equipment dealers. They usually have reconditioned co2 tanks for cheap, like 15# for $50, and that's hydro tested and full. Fills are cheaper at those shops, too.

Thanks for the tip, a quick google-maps search turned up 10 'fire safety equipment' businesses in san antonio. I'll start calling on monday.

 

[JesseRC]

Pizzaman, did you ever see my post a few pages back on the Craigslist find. It was a 15# tanks with co2 still in it.

 

[pizzaman]

Pizzaman, did you ever see my post a few pages back on the Craigslist find. It was a 15# tanks with co2 still in it.

I did see that and thought it was a good deal, it was gone within 2 days though. I won't be buying a tank or fridge until at least early june.

 

[pizzaman]

Finished CO2 Adapter:

Close Up:

9oz CO2 Tank: $10
Universal Fill Adapter(the green thing): $7
1/8" Brass Nipple: $2
1/8" X 1/2" Brass Bushing: $3
Shiny New Kegging System: $priceless

Now if only I could figure out how to get my vinyl tubing to fit over the outlet of the regulator I would be in business...

 

[pizzaman]

Maybe this thread needs to be renamed to: "Not a Bike Pump Keg"

 

[JesseRC]

boil some water in a ceramic glass in microwave. Put tubing in water for 30-60 sec.

 

[pizzaman]

Done:

 

[Schlenkerla]

Pizzaman - I hate to say this..... Brass is not rated for high pressure. Use SS or AL that's rated correctly. The brass is way too soft.

I have seen brass fittings blow at 800PSI under hydraulic pressures at work. Too often maintenance guys can't find the right SS fitting in the stockroom and mistakenly opt for brass fittings. Its no good.

Finished CO2 Adapter:

Close Up:

9oz CO2 Tank: $10
Universal Fill Adapter(the green thing): $7
1/8" Brass Nipple: $2
1/8" X 1/2" Brass Bushing: $3
Shiny New Kegging System: $priceless

Now if only I could figure out how to get my vinyl tubing to fit over the outlet of the regulator I would be in business...

 

[pizzaman]

i see......

 

[Schlenkerla]

i see......

I think people see yellow-zinc coated steel fittings and think brass is OK. The color is similar.

If you find steel hydraulic fittings they are OK.

Don't use the standard pipe either, its also low pressure. Its a cheap soft iron for easy cutting and threading on the fly. The hydraulic steels are alloyed to provide strength. Probably has a mix of iron, chrome, nickel and some other stuff.

If you go to your local hardware store make sure they give you high pressure stuff. Rated for something over 2000 psi. If they don't know ask somebody who does or goe some place else. An industrial supply place will, maybe some auto parts place will have them.

We have an auto parts place close by that makes hydraulic hose and they have all of the fittings you need for high pressure. Its pricey, but definitely worth it long term.

 

[pizzaman]

roger dodger

 

[pizzaman]

It looks like this guy is using a brass compression fitting just like I have: http://www.schwedhelm.net/brew/biggasser.html The silver 2" nipple looks like stainless, but the yellowish bushing attached directly to the regulator looks just like my brass bushing.

I just sent him an email to confirm if it is brass or brass plated, and to find out if he has had any problems with it. Would they list it as a "brass compression fitting" if it was simply brass plated?

 

[Schlenkerla]

Its probably solid brass, but just because he didn't have problems doesn't mean its a good idea to duplicate the set-up.

If it was mine I'd get the steel fittings. Rather not take the risk. Imagine a druck buddy kicking over the regulator and that sucker pops. The shards might injure him or an innocent bystander.

Not much is brass plated to my knowledge, especially fittings.

The gauges have brass threads but the orifice leading to the bourdon tube is very small so its got high burst strength. The brass is used on a gauge so it doesn't bugger up regulator threads. Its more common to replace gauges than regulators and its easier to orient the face of the gauge as well. You can snug them down good.

 

[pizzaman]

If a druck buddy kicks over the regulator they deserve a shard of brass in their face. As for the innocent bystander I'll offer them free homebrew for life as an out of court settlement, or just out run them.

 

[Schlenkerla]

If a druck buddy kicks over the regulator they deserve a shard of brass in their face. As for the innocent bystander I'll offer them free homebrew for life as an out of court settlement, or just out run them.

That's good! Remind me not to drink with you!!

Maybe I can fake the damage and injury for a life-time of free beer. Yes - That's what I'll do.

 

[pizzaman]

Right....so how much are we talking for the proper compression fittings? Would it be cheaper to buy this little diddly for $21: "The Adapter" CO2 regulator to Paintball tank Adapter

 

[Schlenkerla]

I might do that paintball tank adapter thing. The larger, female nut/fitting is usually flat bottomed and requires a flat seal so you don't loose your gas.

W/o seeing the threads I'm guessing you used a straight/tapered threaded brass fitting. No flat gas seal.

After further thought definitely do the adapter.

 

[pizzaman]

After doing a little more research I have found that the pin valve connected to paintball tanks is made of solid brass. How is it that these can withstand the constant pressure but a brass compression joint couldn't?

 

[the_bird]

Right....so how much are we talking for the proper compression fittings? Would it be cheaper to buy this little diddly for $21: "The Adapter" CO2 regulator to Paintball tank Adapter

Didn't you say, though, that you're getting a proper Co2 tank in a month? The adapter's just going to be $21 down the hole; if you're going to buy the regular tank, just bite the bullet and do it, you're got everything else already.

 

[pizzaman]

I would like to be able to use the 9oz tank in the future for portability.

[EDIT] HAAAH, love the new thread title. Thanks, whoever that was..[/EDIT]

 

[Schlenkerla]

After doing a little more research I have found that the pin valve connected to paintball tanks is made of solid brass. How is it that these can withstand the constant pressure but a brass compression joint couldn't?

Pizzaman - Its all about wall thickness of the brass fitting. Smaller diameters w/ higher wall thickness can withstand more pressure.

Its also depends on exact material type too. The cheap fitting I saw at work blew at less than a 1000 psi.

Your fittings might be suitable. I am gun shy on brass and high pressure due to seeing it fail. I saw photos of a blown up brass fitting that spewed a toxic sealant into peoples faces and mouths.

For your benefit I looked on line, (McMaster-Carr) there are some rated for high pressure some are not. You just need to know what you got for fittings. You shouldn't use them at the limit. If you know 1800psi is typical for your tank. Use something at a factor of 2 or greater, like 3600psi.

I'm not trying to trash your set-up. I'm not too keen about using non-steel fittings with high pressures.

 

[Schlenkerla]

The 3K on this fitting is 3000psi cracking pressure on the relieve valve.

Yes, some of the brass-looking materials are OK. I bet this is a harder/stronger bronze alloy.

 

[pizzaman]

Pizzaman - Its all about wall thickness of the brass fitting. Smaller diameters w/ higher wall thickness can withstand more pressure...

Sounds good. I tightened the bushing all the way so it's flush with the ufa, isolating the small nipple inside the female ends of the adapter and the bushing. That way the weakest point is made stronger by the reinforcement of the stronger parts. These pics show what I'm trying to say, and you can see the wall thickness of the bushing is fairly large going from 1/8" to 1/2" (unfortunately added an unwanted scratch to the ufa)

 

[opzo]

How do you get paintball CO2 bottles filled with food grade CO2, without refilling them yourself? As I understand it there are small amounts of lubricants in the CO2 used for non-food grade products.

FYI here is a paintball can adapter (pin valve type) for $7.50
Supply-N-Demand, LLC.

... and someone that put it all together the way I was considering ...
Portable Paintball CO2 Rig- Lustreking Brewing

I just haven't gone this route yet until I can be certain I wont be ingesting lubricants from my CO2.

Also doesn't bottled CO2 have a max PSI of 850 or so due since it's a liquid below and a gas above that pressure? I got a bit lost a few pages ago in this thread when talking about 1000+ psi.

 

[pizzaman]

I bought the UFA I'm using similar to the supply-n-demand one listed above on ebay for $4, cost $7 with shipping. The only difference is mine is less expensive and looks sexier. I did use that lustreking link as well as other in researching building my own. I'll be filling my co2 tank at the same place everyone else fills their co2 for kegging: a welding shop or sporting goods store. Not sure why there would be any added lubricants in the co2, or how they would even get them in there. I'm not sure about the exact pressures of bottled co2, I know it is greater than 1000 though from what I've read on this forum and other sites.

 

[mpcondo]

I was wondering if anyone had attempted a DIY plastic keg like the one from this link
oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Gear/GSanders/CheapKegs.shtml

and if so does anyone have any thoughts on using a CO2 bike tire inflator like this one? Innovations Ultraflate Plus Bike Tire Inflator at REI.com

 

[pizzaman]

I know plenty of people on this forum use those tire inflators with their portable keg setups. The only problem ever mentioned is that they let out a lot of co2 very quickly so you just have to be careful to not overpressurize. Other than that they will work fine if you don't mind paying $1-2 for each co2 cartridge, which can really add up quickly when you consider you probably need five cartridges to empty one keg.

 

[mpcondo]

thanks for the reply, after reading through this forum again i think ive decided to go with the paitball co2 tank like a lot of others have.

 

[pizzaman]

I was wondering if anyone had attempted a DIY plastic keg like the one from this link
oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Gear/GSanders/CheapKegs.shtml

While that is a neat and unique idea, it's not one you should do if you're trying to save money or get started in kegging for cheap, unless you happen to have a container like that sitting around. Looking around at prices the cheapest I saw for a new one was about $40, and I wouldn't even wanna think about buying one used. You can easily find a cornie keg on craigslist or ebay for $30-$40, or other websites and pay a little for shipping. After all the connections you'd need for the bottle above, or any other pressure capable bottle, you'd end up spending just as much on something that may or may not work as you would on a cornelius setup that is guaranteed to work, and last.

 

[opzo]

About the food grade CO2 and CO2 in general ...

I can't find anyone other than a paintball shop that will refill a CO2 tank, they all do an exchange, I am sure somewhere this is done commonly but not anywhere I can find here.

I am hoping one of the pros here will chime in about food-grade CO2, so far I have heard from a MrFizz rep and the pro at my LHBS ... so I have room for concern about using non food-grade CO2. ...Or it's a big myth. Who knows

 

[pizzaman]

The "food grade" issue has been discussed on this site numerous times before. Do a search for food grade and you'll find numerous threads with the same outcome. The majority of people use whatever co2 they can get their hands on and never have a problem using it. There are one or two people in every thread that swear non-food grade co2 is giving them off flavors or contaminants, and refuse to use co2 that isn't classified as "food grade". So if you're gonna be paranoid about it, go find a supplier for so called "food grade" co2. Otherwise just do what everyone else does.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Food grade is like that of aircraft grade. They employ more quality measures (inspections) on those grades even though they are from the same source and processed the same way.

Lot of it is hype in my opinion. There are exceptions, assuming you are talking about MTBF on products. Like aircraft hydraulics or the limited ability to change ingredients/materials/processes without product testing.

 

[opzo]

I just called a local gas supplier here ... the "food-grade" product gets extra filtration before going into tanks. The filters are very expensive I guess so not practical for me to buy for personal use, but getting refills with filtered gas seems like the fix if you want to go portable with CO2 tanks. Thanks...!!

Afterthought - my big concern here wasn't off flavors in my brew ... rather the possibility of ingesting something harmful. So I remain cautious but the portable type rig certainly is attractive none the less.

 

[mpcondo]

Afterthought - my big concern here wasn't off flavors in my brew ... rather the possibility of ingesting something harmful. So I remain cautious but the portable type rig certainly is attractive none the less.

I've considered that too, I have on of these extinguishers and I am in the process of cleaning it and replacing as many parts that would come in contact with the beer as possible.

 

[opzo]

It's been a while since I have been in this thread but I stumbled across this and felt that I should add it. This is by far the easiest way to get from regulator to a paintball CO2 tank.

WilliamsBrewing

 

[mpcondo]

I have put together my 2 1/2 gal h20 fire extinguishe keg. all together cost me about $35 dollars. The only time consuming part was the cleaning, eventhough this fire extinguisher only used water I wanted to be absolutely certain that it was completely clean. I'm going to try it out first with just water, then with some super cheap crap beer from the store before filling it with my california common that is about a week away from being finished.

 

[beerthirty]

Thank you mpcondo. I'm glad someone took my idea and ran with it. One question though. Why put a picnic tap on the end of the line when the extinguisher handle has a release valve in it?