Homebrewing Needs a Woman's Touch

[sudbuddy]

@hello absolutely nailed it. Too bad @homebrewdad just isn't seeing the light on this one. Sometimes you just have to admit when you're wrong. Luckily for you, homebrewers tend to be a pretty welcoming group of folks (to make a broad generalization) and we'll probably forgive you for it.

See what I did there? One qualifying statement helps me not speak for everyone. Try it in your next blog post, but don't expect me to read it.

 

[sudbuddy]

I had started to make responses to some other posts, but really, that just makes me look childish.

You're doing a fine job of that already. I think we all learned a valuable lesson over the past two days about just how awesome homebrewers are, not only in the brewhouse but as people too. Now, just admit it please so we can get back to our dick and fart jokes.

 

[soccerdad]

It's hard for me to get as jazzed up about all this as many of you seem to be. Perhaps that is because the blog post (for me) had no basis in reality. It was not off the mark so much as the target was on the next planet. Brewing for me is a family affair. We brew together. There are 9 of us total (including sons in law and daughters in law) 5 male and 4 female. By the blog definition we are a boys club. WHA? I will grant you that on certain days one or two of the boys brew - the girls have other commitments. We did not run them off. But I guess we are sexist if we proceed without them. I tend to be the only one interested in the goings on of the local brew club. In that 'boys club' we must have a problem because there are women at every single meeting that I have attended. Not just a couple of women - not just a couple of meetings. Every single meeting !!! Every one ! I guess if it turns out (as the last meeting) to be 5 men and 2 women, we should ask 3 of the guys to leave - that will guarantee that we are fair and balanced. I am not going to argue fine points with Homebrewdad - and I am sure that I would like Homebrewdad if we sat down for a beer or 3. But his blog is a large pile of steaming bull**** with no basis whatsoever in reality. Over and out.

 

[motobrewer]

They've asked me to stop hanging out in men's locker rooms indefinitely.

that's absolutely not true

 

[LAHammer]

I can't believe I've stayed through all of this. Guess it's because of the crazy weaves these threads can take. Never know where it's gonna go and how entertaining and educational it can get.

All this talk about sex makes me want to drink...

 

[unionrdr]

I can't believe I've stayed through all of this. Guess it's because of the crazy weaves these threads can take. Never know where it's gonna go and how entertaining and educational it can get.

All this talk about sex makes me want to drink...

Well, hey, it is Friday after all. So grab some craft ales & some bourbon & get your funk on with SWMBO! I'm gonna drink some ales & vodka while cleaning bottles & watching Bonanza with my oldest son. He may be 'Andycapped, but we like a lotta the same chit. Funny how life works out. My wife & I used to drink home brews & watch videos on youtube on Fridays. Now that she can't anymore, my son does. cei'est la vei'...

 

[sudbuddy]

It's been -10 here the past two days and this thread has been my only entertainment at work. Thanks everyone for your insight and for making me laugh while I shiver. Brrr!!!

 

[1975brewer]

Well I finally made it to the last page & all I have to say is if my beer fermented as fast as this thread it would go from grain to tap in less than 3 days.
I was going to go pour a beer an hour ago & you guys (& gals) made me forget.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I'll raise a pint in the hopes that we all can get touched, somewhere, by a homebrewing woman this weekend. Yes, even the likes of Melana, Yooper, Hello, and all the others.

 

[unionrdr]

See what happens when we take turns throwing the bull around by the tail while trying to be serious at the same time? Why?...

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Well I finally made it to the last page & all I have to say is if my beer fermented as fast as this thread it would go from grain to tap in less than 3 days.
I was going to go pour a beer an hour ago & you guys (& gals) made me forget.

It a delight to see that something so simple as a few words can make a person feel years younger but, 77 I think you took it to heart.

 

[sudbuddy]

Oh no, is this over now? Oh well, great thread while it lasted.

 

[stpug]

What a delightful bunch we have here

 

[Teromous]

Oh no, is this over now? Oh well, great thread while it lasted.

Maybe it just needs a little Michael Jackson touch...

 

[Yooper]

Its been a good long while since I've been around, but I would totally be interested in this fantasy league next year.

BTW, I showed this thread to my SWMBO, and she first pitched a fit at the premise, and then laughed at all the responses.

Well, we used to do a 'pick em' league, where we pick one winner per week. I won that, by the way.

Hey now, this is a touch the women thread. Not a touch the old geezer thread.

What about a woman geezer like me?

I think mocking you is totally allowed when you come in here guns blazing that the homebrewing culture is sexist. Is there sexism happening? Yes. Is there need for the conversation and further change? Yes. Does that warrant you to group all the male homebrewers as sexist? Hell no! That is the issue most of us here have with your opinion. I think the mocking you have received is far less damaging than calling the homebrewing culture sexist.

I guess that is what I'm feeling. The women who have been AHA members for years, who are blazing trails for others, those who joined the 'boys club' way back when and fought their way into being accepted, like our mothers did during the 60s are pretty much being thrown under the bus here while looking for SEXISM that simply no longer exists.

Are some men jerks? Certainly. Not here so much (maybe because of my whip? ) but at work, on the subway, stealing our taxis, etc.

I seriously have NEVER been treated poorly (except at one LHBS a number of years ago by a woman clear, no less)- and curiously all of the serious women brewers who replied on this forum agree. So who is making this up? Reddit is a joke, although I've only visited it once. But I mean it- what serious survey of women brewers led to this question? I know a LOT of brewers who are female, and who own breweries, or who are partially owned by females. I never once heard one of them speak of such misogyny.

I'm not sure how to take this
Do you want to be one or something more, um....????????????

And - Jesus was white?

I heard a rumour that he was Jewish. But his picture at my church doesn't show earlocks so I dunno.

 

[Hello]

that's absolutely not true

Haha ;-) well...

 

[fivepointslow]

I had a buddy come brew with me. Turned out that he was in the kitchen cooking and manning the grill so we could have dinner and I was brewing. Since then I refer to him as kitchen ***** and he refers to me as brew *****. I love it.

awesome!

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

What about a woman geezer like me?

"If you want my body, and you think I'm sexy, c'mon baby let me know ..."

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

I know a LOT of brewers who are female, and who own breweries, or who are partially owned by females. I never once heard one of them speak of such misogyny.

Wait????hold on a sec.....Its legal to partially own female brewers that own breweries???

 

[Iseneye]

Wait????hold on a sec.....Its legal to partially own female brewers that own breweries???

Based on the grammar - only if you're a female. If you're a male you can't part own them.

 

[jwalk4]

Sorry to post this so late in the game. Just ignore it if you wish.

Here's something that I find useful to refer to when this sort of subject comes up:

http://amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

Generally the last one is the most appropriate: "46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege"

First off, can we move this thread into the debate forum? This really isn't general beer discussion.

2nd, I like a lot of points the author, Peggy, made in that list. However, it suffers from the same problem that many similar lists suffer: they try to pass of a ton of BS behind a few good points and it really hurts the good fight. Before a reader can dispute a point she makes in the area of, say, male privilege in career life, Peggy is already on to another topic. I think that in order to have a chance at making progressive change on the gender front, people need to start getting far more specific and stop making patchy arguments that are far too broad in scope.

Finally, it's time to atop assuming that we men don't think about and consider the topic gender equality. It's just as dismissive.

 

[SeraW]

Stumbled on this yesterday, but didn't want to be the one to bump it. But since it's here...

I lurk a lot, and post only occasionally. I've seen some misogynist (and/or homophobic and/or transphobic) jerks on occasion (usually several year old posts, so maybe it's changed over time). It makes me uncomfortable, but I've also noticed that, 98% of the time, said jerk gets roasted by someone else for the comment. Other rudeness gets taken care of by a mod. I feel comfortable knowing that if I ever needed to hit the report button, it would result in a positive change. That means a lot to me.

I have never had that sort of atmosphere at a place like reddit, so a different result there makes complete sense.

I've never been treated poorly for my gender on this site, nor in most spaces for brewing. There's one guy at one of the HBS's near me who's rude to me, but I think he's that way to just about everybody, so I don't think it's a gender thing. And at another LHBS, I'm known by name and treated very well. This is also in metro Southern California, so it may be different at other places.

Just my two cents. TL;DR Version: Love it here at HBT, misogyny is probably a problem in some other brew spaces, but I don't think it's a big issue here.

 

[mattmmille]

Stumbled on this yesterday, but didn't want to be the one to bump it. But since it's here...

I lurk a lot, and post only occasionally. I've seen some misogynist (and/or homophobic and/or transphobic) jerks on occasion (usually several year old posts, so maybe it's changed over time). It makes me uncomfortable, but I've also noticed that, 98% of the time, said jerk gets roasted by someone else for the comment. Other rudeness gets taken care of by a mod. I feel comfortable knowing that if I ever needed to hit the report button, it would result in a positive change. That means a lot to me.

I have never had that sort of atmosphere at a place like reddit, so a different result there makes complete sense.

I've never been treated poorly for my gender on this site, nor in most spaces for brewing. There's one guy at one of the HBS's near me who's rude to me, but I think he's that way to just about everybody, so I don't think it's a gender thing. And at another LHBS, I'm known by name and treated very well. This is also in metro Southern California, so it may be different at other places.

Just my two cents. TL;DR Version: Love it here at HBT, misogyny is probably a problem in some other brew spaces, but I don't think it's a big issue here.

Cheers and I hope that you would be treated fairly and equally anywhere in the USA. I wish it were same in the rest of the world. I do have one small issue with your post: You mention that you are in "metro Southern California" and that it might make some difference in how you are treated. I believe that you will find that there are racists, misogynists, and general, all around jerks everywhere. I would caution you not to make assumptions about people in "other places". I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that usually is, in my experience, PC code for the South. I love female brewers. I know of at least two breweries in my area that are owned by women. Some of the best advice, encouragement, and home brews I've had have come from a woman. I have cousins that were raised in California and, when I was a kid, one of them did not want to come to North Carolina and meet her redneck cousins...like we all live in Mayberry in the 1960's. Anyway, it left me a little sensitive to being stereotyped. Come visit...the one thing that does exceed expectations is Southern Hospitality and the beer is GREAT!!!

 

[SeraW]

Cheers and I hope that you would be treated fairly and equally anywhere in the USA. I wish it were same in the rest of the world. I do have one small issue with your post: You mention that you are in "metro Southern California" and that it might make some difference in how you are treated. I believe that you will find that there are racists, misogynists, and general, all around jerks everywhere. I would caution you not to make assumptions about people in "other places". I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that usually is, in my experience, PC code for the South. I love female brewers. I know of at least two breweries in my area that are owned by women. Some of the best advice, encouragement, and home brews I've had have come from a woman. I have cousins that were raised in California and, when I was a kid, one of them did not want to come to North Carolina and meet her redneck cousins...like we all live in Mayberry in the 1960's. Anyway, it left me a little sensitive to being stereotyped. Come visit...the one thing that does exceed expectations is Southern Hospitality and the beer is GREAT!!!

I was in fact born in St. Louis, MO, lived there 22 years, and have visited several other states and countries, including in the American South. I love it there, too, and stereotyping was not my intent.

 

[drainbamage]

I'm so glad this thread got resurrected. Made for a fun (re)read.

 

[neilpcraven]

Sorry to post this so late in the game. Just ignore it if you wish.



First off, can we move this thread into the debate forum? This really isn't general beer discussion.

2nd, I like a lot of points the author, Peggy, made in that list. However, it suffers from the same problem that many similar lists suffer: they try to pass of a ton of BS behind a few good points and it really hurts the good fight. Before a reader can dispute a point she makes in the area of, say, male privilege in career life, Peggy is already on to another topic. I think that in order to have a chance at making progressive change on the gender front, people need to start getting far more specific and stop making patchy arguments that are far too broad in scope.

Finally, it's time to atop assuming that we men don't think about and consider the topic gender equality. It's just as dismissive.

To your second point, they've already treated some of those criticisms in other articles (http://amptoons.com/blog/2006/05/29/in-defense-of-generalizations-and-petty-complaints/).

To the third: "all women are affected by sexism and misogyny, even though not all men are sexist. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotAllMen

!I'm not implying that this happens on HBT!

Having said that, (going back to your first point) if there's a debate rolling about this checklist in another forum (or if you want to start one), point me at it.

 

[jwalk4]

Thanks for responding.

To your second point, they've already treated some of those criticisms in other articles (http://amptoons.com/blog/2006/05/29/in-defense-of-generalizations-and-petty-complaints/).

I appreciate her response to the criticisms, but I am not swayed. Saying that "the staggering amount of work required ... ha(s) intimidated me" is not a defense of make wide sweeping generalizations. It's sophist at best and irresponsible at worst. Again, my main point was that a more reasonable approach would be to pick an issue, and weigh in on it with integrity.

To the third: "all women are affected by sexism and misogyny, even though not all men are sexist. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotAllMen

I'm not sure of the context in which you have posted this, but the use of first person singular in her checklist puts those words in every male's mouth (misogynist or not) and she knows it.

Having said that, (going back to your first point) if there's a debate rolling about this checklist in another forum (or if you want to start one), point me at it.

Mods have the ability to move a thread.

One the whole, she makes a lot of good points. Unfortunately, I think she's way off base on many of them.

Thank you, though, for taking this matter with the seriousness that it deserves.

 

[Psylocide]

Kettle corn?

 

[passedpawn]

And that concludes our broadcast day. [queue national anthem]

[thread moved to blogs]