STC-1000+ PI (the mash control firmware)

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Alpha. That sound interesting. I test pi alot and I am unable to atchive good control. From experiens on my system those settings wold be fine100% -3C, 50% -2C, 30% -1C and aprox 20% 0C
Is it much work to make that system? I am more than willing to test it out!
 
Alpha. That sound interesting. I test pi alot and I am unable to atchive good control. From experiens on my system those settings wold be fine100% -3C, 50% -2C, 30% -1C and aprox 20% 0C
Is it much work to make that system? I am more than willing to test it out!

It should be a lot easier than PID control, that is for sure. But I'd need to identify and implement the parameters, that would probably be the most time consuming part. The interpolation and stuff arw all things I've done before.
The actual output settings for the temperature differential points will of course be parameters, so you can change it to suit your system.
 
Alpha. That sound interesting. I test pi alot and I am unable to atchive good control. From experiens on my system those settings wold be fine100% -3C, 50% -2C, 30% -1C and aprox 20% 0C
Is it much work to make that system? I am more than willing to test it out!


HansEinar, could you describe your system please?
 
Not a bad idea to use a 'settable' percentage as a ramping mechanism maybe.
I agree that placing the sensor in the middle of the mash in incorrect, I was using it as an exaggerated example to make the point. (the following is opinion) To make a similar point in a HERMS system design, you would NOT want to place the sensor in the wort flow path (which is the opposite of a RIMS, where you DO want to). You would want to place it in the HLT and have faith that thermal transfer laws do their job. In both system types, a PID may not be necessary as the mass of the wort/water when circulated back into itself sort of takes the place of a PID algorithm. It's different than when heating a solid object, like metal, which does not give you the option of recirculation where you have to 'plan' how long it takes to have thermal transfer from the heat source to the sensor. Sort of. :) That was the point I was trying to make earlier about system design vs. PID.


Alpha - instead of a PID algorithm, you mentioned earlier about a place for a second sensor hookup. What if you used 2 sensors at the same time (in 2 different places in the system) and have the STC compare the 2? For example in a RIMS system, one sensor directly after the heater element. The other sensor maybe in the mash, or at the input of the heater element. When the controller compares the 2 and sees a large difference it allows the relay output to be on 100% of the time. However, when the temp gap difference closes, the outputs would ramp down to say, 5 seconds on, 5 seconds off, then 3 seconds on/off, then one second on/off.
Or simpler yet, have the STC simply take an average of the resistance of the 2 thermistors 100% of the time. It might be as easy as that. However, this may not be necessary either. Depending on whether this uses a PTC or NTC type thermistor, I think I can envision a physical way to do this without any coding necessary at all.
BTW, can this be made to use a K thermocouple instead?

RIMS systems do not have a lot of thermal mass from control point of view, only the amount of wort in the RIMS chamber. That is why you'd want a different control scheme from HERMS.
You can't go about averaging the two sensors. We want to attain an absolute value for the sensor after the heater. But I have had the idea to allow this value to be 'nudged'. So you could let the output be a little bit warmer than setpoint if the input/mash temp is below setpoint. Simplest would be to calc a temporary setpoint that would be tSP = SP-(SP-t2). You'd probably need to clamp the SP-t2 part to limit !how much SP can be nudged.
This is secondary though.

I don't know if anyone is interested in this item, but I bought a couple and plan to use to compare the settings on the Pi compared to the final result for testing purposes here. I haven't tried them yet but if I am reading correctly they should work perfectly for this.
Also should be able to use in fermenting to later compare actual to proposed temps, but not for testing of the STC1000+ obviously because of yeast activity creating its own heat.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEMPER2-PC-...859?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eccd57153

I think these need to be connected to a computer to be logging and can't be used without one. That might be ok for you, but I think it is misleading they call it a logger when it is more like 'usb temperature sensor'. Sure you could log if you have it connected, but a logger to me should be able to collect the data independently.
 
I guess I should say not dev firmware but at least a test bed for current firmware so it can be run through its paces.
 
Another test today. There is something wrong with the timer. When you got time, alpha, can you check that. Today I set 40min 65C, 20min27C and 5min 77C. The 40min step took about 20minutes. and the 20min step took about 10min. Aprox half without mesure it..
 
HansEinar, could you describe your system please?

Sorry. Have not noticed that post. I have test the Pi in two breweries one modified "BeerBrew 30"(25 liters batches and mash in boil kettle) like this one:
DSC_0182.JPG


I pump from valve to top. Temp sensor is mount on top outlet.
And one almost the same but 50 liters.
 
Make sure 'Set'->'rn' is 'ct' (that is constant temperature mode). Then 'Set' -> 'SP' will be your setpoint. Third, you might need to fiddle with the parameters 'cP', 'cI' and 'cd'. If you get it working in C, you might give F a try and see if you can make it work.


I don't see a 'cd' parameter in the menu. I see it on the github page but not in my menu. I think I have the correct version. Where is a good place to start with I and P ? As per previous posts, I have them at 99 and 999 for now.
 
I don't see a 'cd' parameter in the menu. I see it on the github page but not in my menu. I think I have the correct version. Where is a good place to start with I and P ? As per previous posts, I have them at 99 and 999 for now.

Weird. It should be there. I'll try and check it again myself when I get some time, but I'm pretty sure it was there last time I was hacking away at it :)
There is really no way to tell. Depends on what you are trying to control (your system). You could try to start with all zero. Then add enough P to make rise time acceptable, then add some D (well, if you had it...) to counteract overshoot. Then enough I to cancel steady state error.
It is difficult finding good settings, but it should be a one time job.
 
Hi!
I have been messing a bit with the PID firmware again, to try to limit the effects of integrator windup when stepping.
I added a new parameter dI, which sets a clamp on the allowed error that the integrator sees (in other words, if set to 1.0, the error, or difference between setpoint and measured value, will be limited to +- 1.0 degree for the integrator). This should at least slow down the the integrator windup when ouside of the controllable region.
Also, I have added a check to disable integrating action if the output is saturated and the error is in the same direction. This will hopefully help to stop long windups during the time to reach controllable region.
Note though (and I am thinking of your setup Hans-Einar), that there still will be windup during the time it enters the controllable region. The only way to not have to much overshoot is to have PID parameters that are low enough to allow for slow and steady action. My guess would be that you'd need pretty much P action, possibly some D (if it can approach target with to much velocity, which I kind of doubt), and just enough I action to eliminate steady state error within a reasonable amount of time, without overshooting too much.

Cheers!
 
I have a couple of ssr's now, but never used them before, are there commercially available mounting pads for them etc that anyone is aware of?
 
Ok just flashed a rims stc1000. waiting for parts to get this thing going. How would I use the dual probe function on the rims stc1000+?
 
Currently, second probe is not in use in the PID firmware. I'm not sure it will be either, as the programspace for the PID is really maxed out.
 
I have a couple of ssr's now, but never used them before, are there commercially available mounting pads for them etc that anyone is aware of?

here is a link to the ssr heatsinks I have used with no issues for over a year... they range from $2 up with shipping included...
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&ghostText=&_sacat=0&_nkw=ssr+heatsink&_sop=15
I bought one last week from a seller in the states for $5 and it took 4 days to arrive...

BTW tha exact same heatsinks also from the same manufacturer in china would cost me $15 from aubrins with shipping for one.... http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_48&products_id=45
Hmm.... I can buy 6 of them on ebay and still have change for that cost...
Why so many here keep recommending buying from these guys with these crazy markups I don't know...

unless you need "support" on how to use your heatsink?
 
here is a link to the ssr heatsinks I have used with no issues for over a year... they range from $2 up with shipping included...
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&ghostText=&_sacat=0&_nkw=ssr+heatsink&_sop=15
I bought one last week from a seller in the states for $5 and it took 4 days to arrive...

BTW tha exact same heatsinks also from the same manufacturer in china would cost me $15 from aubrins with shipping for one.... http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_48&products_id=45
Hmm.... I can buy 6 of them on ebay and still have change for that cost...
Why so many here keep recommending buying from these guys with these crazy markups I don't know...

unless you need "support" on how to use your heatsink?


Wow good deal thanks very much. I am talking the wife into a gas stove and will hopefully have a 50 amp 240v outlet opening up soon :)

Greg
 
I think you are getting confused with the BREWPI. As far as I know the STC1000+ is a stand alone unit and doesn't use a RPI or Arduino.

i know its a standalone unit, i was meaning to flash t he STC-1000 to make it a STC-1000+ sorry for the confusion.
 
here is a link to the ssr heatsinks I have used with no issues for over a year... they range from $2 up with shipping included...
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&ghostText=&_sacat=0&_nkw=ssr+heatsink&_sop=15
I bought one last week from a seller in the states for $5 and it took 4 days to arrive...

BTW tha exact same heatsinks also from the same manufacturer in china would cost me $15 from aubrins with shipping for one.... http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_48&products_id=45
Hmm.... I can buy 6 of them on ebay and still have change for that cost...
Why so many here keep recommending buying from these guys with these crazy markups I don't know...

unless you need "support" on how to use your heatsink?

I just ordered 6 of them and working on getting a 240V ripple element and a hot pod enclosure from Bobby at brewhardware.com to get this going. Can't wait. now just working on my wife to convince her that her crappy electric stove is going bye bye and its time for a natural gas stove so I can have the 50amp breaker.
 
I flashed one of the pro controllers with the mash software, Fahrenheit version. I really don't have a good familiarity with PID tuning, but rigged up my temp sensor to be heated by my hot air gun. Obviously this is a poor representation of gallons of water being heated, but after a couple of minutes of goofing around it is targeting the 152F SP. I was trying different values for cP mainly to see its effects. Time to google research PID tuning, though I really need to get a heating element going.

I did learn how SSRs work today, didnt realize that with no load on them that the contacts won't show continuity using a volt meter.

Quick video I made, you can see the cooling output always on (blue led) and the red led comes on with heat gun coming on.

Stc-1000 mash: https://youtu.be/UiFYH8m9U24

@augiedoggy the heat sinks came over the weekend as well, thanks very much! I picked up six of them for like 14 bucks shipped.

I picked up a couple of the teledyne dual 40a SSRs off a board member, was thinking with one unit I could switch both Hots for 240v?

Sorry I realize this is probably more of a thread bump than anything.

Greg

20150329_183744.jpg
 
long time no posting but my SC-1000 pluses are all working well.

We are about to get Grainfathers shipped into Ireland.

These as standard come with an STC-200 (simple change over switch - only one relay) so this mash controller version will make an excellent drop in controller!

Time to start flashing again.

Note: Grainfather is a NZ single pot/mash tube/pump system similar to the Braumeister but at about a third of the cost. The are starting to come into Northern Ireland for £599 with free shipping to Dublin
 
long time no posting but my SC-1000 pluses are all working well.

We are about to get Grainfathers shipped into Ireland.

These as standard come with an STC-200 (simple change over switch - only one relay) so this mash controller version will make an excellent drop in controller!

Time to start flashing again.

Note: Grainfather is a NZ single pot/mash tube/pump system similar to the Braumeister but at about a third of the cost. The are starting to come into Northern Ireland for £599 with free shipping to Dublin

Will, you should look into stc1000p-ovbsc. It is a firmware I've been toying with that is specifically targeted at one vessel brew systems. It is a lot simpler than the PID firmware, but will probable be a lot easier to use and has better 'features' for the task.

Cheers!
//mats
 
Will, you should look into stc1000p-ovbsc. It is a firmware I've been toying with that is specifically targeted at one vessel brew systems. It is a lot simpler than the PID firmware, but will probable be a lot easier to use and has better 'features' for the task.

Cheers!
//mats

This looks like just what I want, with regards to a one vessel system. Something to really just heat strike water to proper temp, and then maintain temp of the mash for "x" minutes, sound a buzzer when done, then allow me to run the heating element at "x" percentage for the boil.

I'll need to get an STC and try and muck my way through... All this firmware uploading, etc is all new to me (and seems a bit daunting) but looks like it's worth my time and the ~$16 for an STC.
 
Alpha- when will the single vessel be released?

I can't answer that. I mean, technically I have already released it. But I won't put out a v1.0 until I feel it deserves it. I know there are a few ppl who have tried it, and was pretty happy with it. Had some feedback and made a few adjustments accordingly. So that is a good start.
It probably decent enough to try out if you are interested, but I'm reluctant to put out a version prematurely. It doesn't need to be 'done' (whatever that means), but I do want to be pretty sure it usable enough. That won't happend unless people give me feedback, as I don't have the time to put in any actual testing myself.

Cheers!
//mats
 
This looks like just what I want, with regards to a one vessel system. Something to really just heat strike water to proper temp, and then maintain temp of the mash for "x" minutes, sound a buzzer when done, then allow me to run the heating element at "x" percentage for the boil.

I'll need to get an STC and try and muck my way through... All this firmware uploading, etc is all new to me (and seems a bit daunting) but looks like it's worth my time and the ~$16 for an STC.

I might be partial, but I think most people who find it daunting pretty much don't think so after they succeeded once. It is not completely without its pitfalls, but it ain't exactly brain surgury either.

Beware of the stc hardware version lottery though. It might be a good idea to buy a 'known good' unit for a little extra, than setting yourself up for disappointment.

Cheers!
//mats
 
Cheers Matts,
The ovbsc version looks very interesting.

One question though about breaking out the pump control:

Do you mean the pad (between the silk screened J2 and the Sensor input terminal) that then goes to the right hand pad of the R3 position?
 
Cheers Matts,
The ovbsc version looks very interesting.

One question though about breaking out the pump control:

Do you mean the pad (between the silk screened J2 and the Sensor input terminal) that then goes to the right hand pad of the R3 position?

Yes. That pad.
Cheers!

//mats
 
Hi Mats, thanks for this firmware, look forward to trying it out in the next few days. I'll test it on a regular two stage mash.
 
Hi,

Cant quite see where other connecteor goes for the pump. I've arrowed the pad to left of J2 (from my uploaded pic) but cant see R2? cheers

stc1000A400P11.png
 
Hi,

Cant quite see where other connecteor goes for the pump. I've arrowed the pad to left of J2 (from my uploaded pic) but cant see R2? cheers

I might not have totally understood your question... Or maybe I still don't...
I'm the picture you attached, the pad your arrow points to, is the pad you connect to the center terminal of the LED dimmer. Then you just need to make sure the STC and the LED dimmer has common ground. It is easiest to tap into ground on the programming header on the STC. Ground on the LED dimmer is just the negative input.
 
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