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cheezydemon3 said:
Opera is a different animal.
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Is it? Nearly the whole of classical music is this way. Performers are no less talented than composers, conductors, and the like. Their focus is different: mastering their instrument. That's no less difficult, and there is no less art going into it than in composing music. I'll note that the same holds true here for much of folk music.

I don't take issue with people who perform others' songs, but you'd better bring something to the table talent-wise. It's the host of "entertainers" that don't write, can't sing without heavy voice alteration to make them sound good, can't play an instrument, and basically can't do anything else that irks me.
 
GuldTuborg said:
I don't take issue with people who perform others' songs, but you'd better bring something to the table talent-wise. It's the host of "entertainers" that don't write, can't sing without heavy voice alteration to make them sound good, can't play an instrument, and basically can't do anything else that irks me.
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Good point. There is something to be said from some one with a beautiful voice making a song theirs.

I take issue with songs that are specifically written for an entertainer by a hoard of songwriters. That's not art, that's production.
 
firerat said:
Good point. There is something to be said from some one with a beautiful voice making a song theirs.

I take issue with songs that are specifically written for an entertainer by a hoard of songwriters. That's not art, that's production.
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That's art. Welcome to the new age.

 
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firerat said:
Good point. There is something to be said from some one with a beautiful voice making a song theirs.

I take issue with songs that are specifically written for an entertainer by a hoard of songwriters. That's not art, that's production.
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Well, sometimes yes, sometimes no. I think you touched upon the two important facets in you first comment. Is the performer bringing something to the table, in terms of technical excellence or artistic interpretation? If yes, who cares if some songwriting cohort came up with the outline for the song? If no, well...

Anyway, I think the point is not to get distracted by the authoring questions, and focus on whether the performer has any real talents. Do we trash actors because they, by and large, do not script movies, plays, and TV shows, for instance?
 
GuldTuborg said:
Well, sometimes yes, sometimes no. I think you touched upon the two important facets in you first comment. Is the performer bringing something to the table, in terms of technical excellence or artistic interpretation? If yes, who cares if some songwriting cohort came up with the outline for the song? If no, well...

Anyway, I think the point is not to get distracted by the authoring questions, and focus on whether the performer has any real talents. Do we trash actors because they, by and large, do not script movies, plays, and TV shows, for instance?
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The acting thing is different.

We don't pack an arena to watch Brad Pitt act.

Covers are OK. Any good band has a few covers. If that is all they do , then they are a "cover" band and can only go so far.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
News Flash

BRAD ISN'T IN THE THEATRE


Believe me it is different.
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He isn't? Damn...fooled this whole time!:p

On a more serious note, I'm not seeing any argument put forward of how popular music performers (or performances) are different, in kind, or dancers, classical musicians, opera singers, Broadway performers, circus performers, magicians, and so forth, all of whom often perform works originally designed by others. Why not lump popular musicians in with them? I'm not stating that there isn't a meaningful difference between theater and cinema, but I don't think that's a difference that makes a difference in the current discussion.

Without such an argument forthcoming, I'm sticking with my feeling that this whole hatred of popular music figures as a group, is just redirected disgust at the (admittedly many) performers who lack any meaningful skill or art of their own. But denying the possibility that popular musicians who don't write songs can be talented in their own right, because of the type of performance they happen to be in, is silly. Was Elvis a no talent hack?
 
I am not sure that this is a situation of right and wrong.

I love singer/songwriters who resist the urge to make silly pop country slop and are innovative and creative.

I am not right or wrong, it is just my preference.

I hate american idol style pop ninnies who try their hardest to sing some recycled song really well. Fukk em.

That opinion too, I am entitled to.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
I am not sure that this is a situation of right and wrong.
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It depends what you're asserting. If it's just that it's your preference not to listen to this type of music, then yes, you're right, this is a matter of opinion and it's not really the kind of things where I can change your mind by appealing to the right kinds of facts, as should be the case with matters of beliefs (barring a completely irrational individual, of course). What's more, I share this opinion with you >95% of the time.

If, rather, you're asserting this:

cheezydemon3 said:
If you can't write music then go FUKK yourself as far as I am concerned. You can sing? Lucky you. You are about as artistic as a swimsuit model and the same kind of "lucky".
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...then I think you're wrong, and this is what I've been arguing against. This is the kind of statement, the possession of actual skill and talent which demonstrates long hours of hard work, too, that I think is more than simply a matter of opinion. If this is just your way of bellyaching about something you don't like, that's fine, but be ready to admit that if challenged.
 
GuldTuborg said:
On a more serious note, I'm not seeing any argument put forward of how popular music performers (or performances) are different, in kind, or dancers, classical musicians, opera singers, Broadway performers, circus performers, magicians, and so forth, all of whom often perform works originally designed by others. Why not lump popular musicians in with them? I'm not stating that there isn't a meaningful difference between theater and cinema, but I don't think that's a difference that makes a difference in the current discussion.

Without such an argument forthcoming, I'm sticking with my feeling that this whole hatred of popular music figures as a group, is just redirected disgust at the (admittedly many) performers who lack any meaningful skill or art of their own. But denying the possibility that popular musicians who don't write songs can be talented in their own right, because of the type of performance they happen to be in, is silly. Was Elvis a no talent hack?
Click to expand...

I am no expert on current popular music, but my impression is that much of it is processed to hell and back, and then shoved out into the world by a massive marketing machine. I don't think that's true of your dancers, classical musicians, etc. Not all popular musicians fit this description, but certainly it's a larger percentage than in other arts.

Regarding Elvis, he took a lot of his early material from black blues musicians who deserve way more credit than they got. Elvis just got the fame and fortune from reworking their songs.
 
The notion that pop music has suddenly become formula music is baffling to me.

Watch VH1's Top 100 One Hit Wonders. Half of the songs are 70s disco. Producers had song writers on their payroll and would shop for singers to perform them.

Rap's first hit came from a formula group. Hank, Wonder Mike and Master G were put together by a producer. Hank didn't even write his intro to Rapper's Delight. He lifted it from Grandmaster Caz (In the words of Caz, "I'm the C A S N the O V A and the rest is F L Y doesn't spell Big Bad Hank").

The Monkeys were put together by a producer to compete with The Beatles.

Michael Jackson had his own team of writers.

It's easy to pick on pop music. Pop music has always been that way. If anything, they are only being more open about what they do.

I was listening to an interview with Bonnie Raitt and she was saying something to the effect of "the money the record companies make from pop music pays for developing the artists that make the serious music."


For me it's the autotuning that bothers me more than the brain enema lyrics. Autotuning means they can't even sing in key. They are just a pretty face. They are Milli Vanilli with better technology.

EDIT: I just got shown this Star Trek - VMA mashup
 
I read a story in which she was quoted as saying to Robin Thicke "You know we're going to make history tonight"

Yes, making history. Someday when people ask for figures who made/changed history, the list will include Galileo, Caesar, Napoleon, Washington, Einstein, Hitler, Miley Cryus and Robin Thicke.
 
GuldTuborg said:
It depends what you're asserting. If it's just that it's your preference not to listen to this type of music, then yes, you're right, this is a matter of opinion and it's not really the kind of things where I can change your mind by appealing to the right kinds of facts, as should be the case with matters of beliefs (barring a completely irrational individual, of course). What's more, I share this opinion with you >95% of the time.

If, rather, you're asserting this:

Cheezydemon3 said:
......as far as I'm concerned......
Click to expand...


...then I think you're wrong, and this is what I've been arguing against. This is the kind of statement, the possession of actual skill and talent which demonstrates long hours of hard work, too, that I think is more than simply a matter of opinion. If this is just your way of bellyaching about something you don't like, that's fine, but be ready to admit that if challenged.
Click to expand...

To me the text you quoted answers you directly.

I will judge you for listening to Hootie, I will judge singers with no writing talent, and I will judge *****ey guys who own a big pick up truck for no practical reason.

I am entitled to my own thoughts. Your assertion that I am "wrong" when I am sharing with the forum "as far as I am concerned", is more wrong than any thought that I choose to share.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
I am entitled to my own thoughts. Your assertion that I am "wrong" when I am sharing with the forum "as far as I am concerned", is more wrong than any thought that I choose to share.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, though I never said you couldn't have those thoughts. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts, and some thoughts which are beliefs/assertions are wrong. Nothing mutually exclusive about that.

Generalities aside, it wasn't clear to me that the "as far as I'm concerned" also pertained to the "artistic as a swimsuit model" comment. That's more what I was focusing on. I'm fine with you putting this forth as an opinion in general, but I'm sticking to my original assertion that questions of the possession of talent (that part, anyway) is not simply a matter of opinion. Anyway, I hope we can agree to disagree amicably over an interwebzbrew. :mug:
 
Quit whining. You guys just can't handle the intensity of the Thunderdome, even after it got Nerfed.

burning-man-thunderdome.jpg
 
Is there anything on TV more stupid than the Bud Light Quinoa burger commercial?

You think maybe you are shooting your target audience?
 
Ok, I am back to...SHE IS NOT ATTRACTIVE.

If you find that picture hot, then just off yourself because YOU ARE A GOD DAMNED CHILD MOLESTER.

Which brings me back to: WHO IS WORKING ON KILLING BILLY RAY CYRUS????? For a number of good reasons.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
Which brings me back to: WHO IS WORKING ON KILLING BILLY RAY CYRUS????? For a number of good reasons.
Click to expand...

The great thing about people that dumb is they're bound to kill themselves eventually. We don't really need to do anything - just crack a beer, sit back, and enjoy the show.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
Ok, I am back to...SHE IS NOT ATTRACTIVE.

If you find that picture hot, then just off yourself because YOU ARE A GOD DAMNED CHILD MOLESTER.

Which brings me back to: WHO IS WORKING ON KILLING BILLY RAY CYRUS????? For a number of good reasons.
Click to expand...

Dude . . . she's 20. I'm not saying she's hot, but it ain't because of her age :(
 
Something inside me is attracted to troubled women, or women that are trouble.

That stated, I did not see the VMA performance and only have had it described to me, somewhat colorfully...

"She came out of a bears nether region, and started twerking all over the stage (whatever the heck twerking is?!?) with teddy bears, then winds up grinding all over Alan thicks son, you know that guy from growing pains? yeah, his son who was dressed like beatle juice; it was a fiasco" Maybe I'll watch it maybe I won't; I really don't care all that much, but man is this a popular topic.. for the next 5 minutes anyways.

Also I would probably make a BLT; thick cut, hickory smoked, boston or butter lettuce, heirloom tomato, toasted white with a bit of mayo or A garlic aioli.. mmm that would be tasty; I freaking love BLT's
 

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