I'm a newbee and just registered. After reading 196 pages of posts, one thing most are not aware of are rice cups and 8 oz US cups. In asia, mid-east ect; a "cup" of rice is aprox. 6 oz US measure not 8 oz as we use in the US. They (world wide) use the metric system. Which is 180 ml for a cup of rice. A US cup of rice is aprox. 230 ml. and may cause you to be off by 25%.
Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different
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There is an interesting site with a long involved (5 step) process for Saki rice wine. Search for Taylor-MadeAK dot org. Great information on an ancient tradition. May answer the propagation question of the "yeast". Yes it can be propagated, stored, reused and shared. But since it is a fungus, different process than yeast in beers.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was doing it that way at first but later changed to the other way thinking I'd just been doing it wrong. At least I know I'm not nuts now.
That said, I'm fine with metric and US Standards but a cup should be a damn cup and a liter should be a damn liter. Same with Gallons(US) and Gallons(UK). Does this mean they use a 3rd gallon measurement that's only 96oz?
No they don't do liquid ounces. Troy ounces, but that's a different story.
The real problem is trying to use a rice cooking appliance. I have a Zojirushi. Makes fantastic rice we eat daily. It's a 3 cup machine. Which is 3 180ml cups of dry rice maximum. The water lines are for the ratio with a proper rice cup not an 8oz US liquid/dry cup. So a rice cup and a US cup are not the same.
But I'm glad you are OK with liters. Liters are 100% universal. And dry rice, short-med-long grain is measured at 180 milli-liters before rinsing. If you buy an automatic rice cooker (thrift stores usually have a selection of them) an empty 6oz. yogurt container makes a good rice cup measure.
The real problem is trying to use a rice cooking appliance. I have a Zojirushi. Makes fantastic rice we eat daily. It's a 3 cup machine. Which is 3 180ml cups of dry rice maximum. The water lines are for the ratio with a proper rice cup not an 8oz US liquid/dry cup. So a rice cup and a US cup are not the same.
But I'm glad you are OK with liters. Liters are 100% universal. And dry rice, short-med-long grain is measured at 180 milli-liters before rinsing. If you buy an automatic rice cooker (thrift stores usually have a selection of them) an empty 6oz. yogurt container makes a good rice cup measure.
This is true. That's why I always record my rice amounts in US cups. I have a 10 "cup" rice cooker. Which actually has a max 7.5 cup capacity.
One of the reasons you can find so many rice cookers at thrift stores is improper measurement. Trying to cook 10 US cups in a 10 rice cup cooker will be a bit dry to say the least. So it gets donated or put in the next tag or rummage sale.
I'm trying to read that site, but it seems to be having issues, it keeps timing out. Interesting, I had already added bentonite powder to my red rice wine batch before reading any of that.
When I did my last batch of red rice wine I mixed the leftover starch mass in with another 15 cups of dry rice that had been cooked with 1:1.5 ratio of dry rice to water and let cool. The airlock on that fermenting bucket it burping away nicely now.
Here is a picture of the red rice wine batch, 3 days after harvest and treatment with 1 tsp of thoroughly powdered bentonite/us gallon. Estimated volume 1.5 gallons. I believe that is a 3 gallon beverage dispenser. The rice used was 15 us cups of dry jasmine rice.
Yeah, you are right. My LAN was tweaking out. That's fixed now.
That was an interesting read. It seems like a great deal of the sake making process is aimed at slowing down the growth of acetobacter in the brew, and achieving a very high alcohol content. It is interesting to note that, as far as I can tell, acetobacter growth isn't an issue when making red rice wine.
Hmm, I'm glad I've got another batch going. I've got a couple more experiments to try now. For instance, would it be practical to try and boost the final alcohol content by introducing another yeast strain after harvesting the wine? I've got some distillers yeast with it's ridiculous ABV tolerance... What would the effect be of adding a little yeast nutrient and/or energizer to the water when cooking the rice? Would it be preferable to add nutrients that way, or dissolve them in a little water and pour it on the rice before mixing the rice yeast ball power in... Lot of questions. Lots of experiments to run.
Hmm, I'm glad I've got another batch going. I've got a couple more experiments to try now. For instance, would it be practical to try and boost the final alcohol content by introducing another yeast strain after harvesting the wine? I've got some distillers yeast with it's ridiculous ABV tolerance... What would the effect be of adding a little yeast nutrient and/or energizer to the water when cooking the rice? Would it be preferable to add nutrients that way, or dissolve them in a little water and pour it on the rice before mixing the rice yeast ball power in... Lot of questions. Lots of experiments to run.
The process for saki is longer because the fungus needs to break down the rice as the mycelia grows through the koji. That creates the fermentable sugars the yeasts can use. Same as mushrooms dissolve a log in the forest into nutrients.
Every country in rice growing regions have a variation on the theme. Many are faster and with varying amounts of ethanol. Finding the correct yeast ingredient temperature combination can last a lifetime.
Every country in rice growing regions have a variation on the theme. Many are faster and with varying amounts of ethanol. Finding the correct yeast ingredient temperature combination can last a lifetime.
Well went to harvest my first batch last knight opened the lid and it about knocked me over the OL looked at me like I don't think you're drinkin this ****---took my first taste and it was on it's way to vinegar man was we bummed out--don't know if I shoulda bottled it sooner er what--I do know it never hit 70 degrees until this last week as far as ferment temps. Gonna get another batch in the jug this morning and try it again. I do know it went from clear liquid last week to cloudy this week I'm sure today it would be 29 days old------
OP
OP
Sounds like you were about a week late to the harvest. Major bummer.
saramc
Well-Known Member
So did you bottle the rice wine and let it hang around? You would have awesome rice wine vinegar for your use and for gifting.
Has anyone tried to propogate the RYR? I was talking to SaraMc and got to wondering if you cooked up a small batch of rice, and let it cool to roughly room temperature, then mixed up some powdered RYR with it and put it in a sanitized container with a sanitized piece of cloth and put it in a dark closet for a week, could you have some RYR to dry and re-use?
I know it didn't go over 28 days because it was the wife's birthday week last week and the night we made it she was whinnin because it wouldn't be ready for her b-day
Far as rice vinegar our spice cabinet is full of different flavored rice vinegar--we talked about saving it-Blonde One decided she'd try killin some purple weed with it and dumped it along the fence by the tiki bar--it still had alcohol in it-a good wiff of it would make you step back
Got a batch coolin on the stove top rite now--think the first batch was six cups of rice and three east balls because I had one in the package that wasn't in plastic or hell I can't remember we was drinkin home brews that night but I'm bettin it fermented out to fast because there was to much yeast--today I'll put two in and see what happens
Far as rice vinegar our spice cabinet is full of different flavored rice vinegar--we talked about saving it-Blonde One decided she'd try killin some purple weed with it and dumped it along the fence by the tiki bar--it still had alcohol in it-a good wiff of it would make you step back
Got a batch coolin on the stove top rite now--think the first batch was six cups of rice and three east balls because I had one in the package that wasn't in plastic or hell I can't remember we was drinkin home brews that night but I'm bettin it fermented out to fast because there was to much yeast--today I'll put two in and see what happens
What was your water to rice ratio?
Couldn't tell you I cook rice weekly and always eye ball it long grain or sweet types always come out very eatable--I will tell you this my one gallon jug was a strong 1/3 full of liquid
I should add I didn't measure rice or water today either I'm sure it's all good
I should add I didn't measure rice or water today either I'm sure it's all good
Ostomo517
Well-Known Member
Actually that detail has turned out kinda important in the process. Why wouldnt you take the little extra time instead of wasting another 3 weeks?
I think the take-away is making a rice wine/beer is very forgiving. We can make it rocket science or pop bottle rockets. The process of making a beverage from rice goes back millennia. Sometimes from cherished recipes, sometimes from accidents. Any information is good information.
Ostomo517
Well-Known Member
Not trying to make it rocket science trying to help out and save that poster from wasting time and resources. That is why we are here right ? And if you have the info to do it right why not use it?
Ostomo517
Well-Known Member
Well you can start with all the contributions to this thread Ive had since close to the beginning of this thread compared to your 8 posts. I dont know what offended you or what your sudden problem is but i suggest you go troll elsewhere
WesleyS
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Rosey1 said:
I think what Ostomo517 is saying is that one of the great things about this forum is everyone is here to help everyone make the best homebrew possible and to save them from making unnecessary mistakes. He's not talking about requirements to post, just saying maybe there's a reason why alot of people in this thread have had success with the OP's process.
Leaving aside what ancient people in other countries have done for years, there is a water/rice ratio and process that works now to make a great rice wine with little chance of failure. That process has been discussed in detail in this thread.
There's nothing wrong with experimenting, but I'm not one to risk wasting time and money on a batch of something that has a higher chance of failure because I didn't bother to take a few extra seconds to measure or plan ahead to harvest on the best day to do so. And I think Ostomo517 feels the same way and is just trying to save someone from making the same mistake over again.
Ostomo517
Well-Known Member
Pretty much, thanks Wes
Well, browder was jumped on for not taking a volumetric measurements. I thought just reporting success was good enough.
Thought that was worth an ata-boy. Not a lecture.
I did read all 199 pages of this thread and did not register months ago. Sorry.
Thought that was worth an ata-boy. Not a lecture.
I did read all 199 pages of this thread and did not register months ago. Sorry.
JuanMoore
Getting the banned back together
In most regards, yes. It seems extremely forgiving with respect to rice types, pitching rates, pitching temps, ferm temps, ferm times, etc. Much more forgiving than beer or other fermented beverages. Based on the experiences in this thread the one thing it seems less forgiving about is the water to rice ratio. More water seemingly creates an environment more friendly towards acetobacter, often resulting in a funky vinegary product. This seems consistent with the Vietnamese recipes I've found for both the rice wine and the fermented rice dessert, which caution against overcooking the rice.
Nobody's saying you have to do it a certain way, we're just saying that overly wet rice may have been the cause of the batch not coming out well, and that measuring the rice and water rather than eyeballing it might prevent the next batch from suffering the same fate.
If you have some different advice for them to help prevent the same thing from happening again, let's hear it. Or if you have some experience or evidence that is contrary to the advice given, please speak up.
CreamyGoodness
Well-Known Member
Could you use a small amount of the finished wine as a starter for a new batch? The yeast balls are cheap, but I have to take a cab to Woodside to get them. (Its far)
Ostomo517
Well-Known Member
Leadgolem tried with leftover lees I think but if I remember right it didnt work great. Using some actual wine could be a route like you suggest
You can't use the finished product but you can make the "starter". Go to Taylor-MadeAK dot org. Look for making koji on the right pane. Click on that. Go to page 3. That is the way you make the yeast balls. No cabs required. :fro:
It seems like a ratio of 1:1 - 1:5 seems to be the right ratio to make a good sweet wine that isn't terribly sour. It may be helpful to measure your rice and water. Some have gone over this ratio and the results show it leads to more sour wine.
Nobody jumped on anybody, only you got defensive. He stated in his post he made sour wine and we both suggested that he measure his rice and water as it has proven to be important in making quality sweet wine. Nobody was lecturing, just simply lending friendly advice. Why don't we keep it that way.
Not only the ratio of rice to water, the quality is just as important.
Here is a link http://www.sake-world.com/html/water.html
Think the key to remember is No Iron...period.
Here is a link http://www.sake-world.com/html/water.html
Think the key to remember is No Iron...period.
Johnnyhitch1
Well-Known Member
Queens....gotta love it!
Anyway, no you cant, the enzyme needed to break the rice down does not reproduce and when its done "working" its done.
Yeast balls contain the enzyme needed, hence why new yeast balls are needed for each batch
OP
OP
Enhance your calm John Spartan.
In 200 pages of experimentation I think we have established some good guidelines:
#1) There are a LOT of different ways to make some rice wine.
#2) There are definitely some best practices especially for first attempts (i.e. less water).
#3) Once you make a good batch, there is no turning back... its easy to get hooked.
In 200 pages of experimentation I think we have established some good guidelines:
#1) There are a LOT of different ways to make some rice wine.
#2) There are definitely some best practices especially for first attempts (i.e. less water).
#3) Once you make a good batch, there is no turning back... its easy to get hooked.
Speaking of experimentation. A local site had used hops. This was for it's anti-bacterial properties. Gave a longer cold shelf life for those who did not want to pasteurize right away.
There's a way to use a single yeast ball to make more balls.
Juice from ginger root mixed with rice flower to make a ball and then roll the ball in the powder of a crushed yeast ball. Place in a clean container to dry.
I've done this and although it looks similar to the purchased yeast balls, I've yet to brew a batch with them. Still working up the nerve.
edds5p0
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I just picked up some rice balls and I started a batch with them. I've been using rice leaven, so I'm not sure, but do I need yeast or will the balls do all the work? I see some add yeast, but I thought the aspergillus would do all of the work.
OP
OP
The balls have the yeast. No extra needed!
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