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if someone brews something "new" these days in the craft world and it's crap, they would never be able to continue with that crap style. it wouldn't make it.

So how does AB-Inbev get away with it? Someone has to buy the beer, don't they? Why would people buy crap beer, with un unprecedented number of alternatives available?

the reason why these ****ty beers and their styles came into being has more to do with businessmen making cheap beer, government regulation at the time, and WWII taking up most of the countries grains, which meant very little leftover for the small brewery.

Right. But people still bought the beers. And they still do, in numbers that dwarf craft beer sales. Why?

before that american style beers, even craft beers at the time, were not flavorless.

And now we have all kinds of craft beer available, but the "flavorless" light lagers still outsell them by a gargantuan margin. Why would that be, if the beer is such "crap?"

1) they invented the crap style, and keep to that style, that doesn't make them praiseworthy.

What's wrong with inventing a new style? There are new guidelines coming out this year, and they'll add some new styles. Why is that inherently bad? And where do you think the beer styles came from? Were they handed down from God on a stone tablet, never to be messed with by man? Or did they evolve out of regional taste preferences, which a governing body eventually cataloged and documented? And if the North American beer market vastly prefers a bland, flavorless blonde lager with low IBUs and minimal esters, and they buy billions of barrels of such a beer every year, why shouldn't that style be added to the guidelines?

2)they have been about profits since the beginning

So what? Isn't every business? A craft brewery that doesn't give a rip about "profits" won't be in business for very long. And as an AB-Inbev shareholder, I'm quite pleased with their focus on profits.
 
So how does AB-Inbev get away with it? Someone has to buy the beer, don't they? Why would people buy crap beer, with un unprecedented number of alternatives available?

why do you buy cheap liquor? or cheap wine? because the point isn't the flavor for most, it's the alcohol content. or because it's what they've always bought.

Right. But people still bought the beers. And they still do, in numbers that dwarf craft beer sales. Why?

again, the same point as above.

And now we have all kinds of craft beer available, but the "flavorless" light lagers still outsell them by a gargantuan margin. Why would that be, if the beer is such "crap?"

if you're just looking for a jolt of alcohol without much flavor or calories in it, then of course it's not crap. and also there are lots of signs pointing to the fact that many people are moving over to the craft beers. around 2009 the beer sales in the US were declining, while craft beer sales were increasing. showing more people moving over to craft beer.
and although there continues to be more styles available, because of distribution laws, the bmc beers will always have more availability.


What's wrong with inventing a new style? There are new guidelines coming out this year, and they'll add some new styles. Why is that inherently bad? And where do you think the beer styles came from? Were they handed down from God on a stone tablet, never to be messed with by man? Or did they evolve out of regional taste preferences, which a governing body eventually cataloged and documented? And if the North American beer market vastly prefers a bland, flavorless blonde lager with low IBUs and minimal esters, and they buy billions of barrels of such a beer every year, why shouldn't that style be added to the guidelines?

you're now starting to just quote me at random and taking it out of context. i never said inventing a new style is a bad thing. i said that nowadays, unless it's a good style, it's not gonna make it onto the new styles list, because of craft beer drinkers. back then they created the style because it was the cheapest to make. it became the biggest style in the US due to many factors that have nothing to do with the flavor of the beer, and more to do with politics and business. in fact their main point was minimal flavor.

So what? Isn't every business? A craft brewery that doesn't give a rip about "profits" won't be in business for very long. And as an AB-Inbev shareholder, I'm quite pleased with their focus on profits.

again, only quoting half of what i said in order to take it out of context. i never said every business shouldn't care about profit. i said they cared only about turning a profit, not about making good, flavorful beer.

if you're going to argue just for the sake of arguing, at least have the decency to not take quotes out of context.
arguing that the beer must not be crap because of how much it sells every year is not a valid argument. especially from the american perspective, which cares less about quality and mostly only about price and how quickly it's available. see mcdonalds, walmart, folgers, etc.
 
I was only trying to point out that you seemed to be implying that consumers are idiots and will buy what they're told, billions of barrels at a time, even if they don't like the product. That's obviously absurd. They don't sell billions of barrels of crappy tasting beer just because it's the cheapest or because millions of people are just trying to get drunk in the cheapest way possible. As hard as it may be for you to accept, but most of those people buying Bud Light actually like the taste of that beer. You don't, and that's fine, but don't try and make it seem like people are retarded lemmings, succumbing to mind-control and forking over billions and billions of dollars for something they don't like. That's nonsense. It's insulting and arrogant.
 
Brewing is art. In the art industry....quality is generally mutually exclusive with quantity (at least at large scale). Think Folgers vs. small roasters.
 
I was only trying to point out that you seemed to be implying that consumers are idiots and will buy what they're told, billions of barrels at a time, even if they don't like the product. That's obviously absurd. They don't sell billions of barrels of crappy tasting beer just because it's the cheapest or because millions of people are just trying to get drunk in the cheapest way possible. As hard as it may be for you to accept, but most of those people buying Bud Light actually like the taste of that beer. You don't, and that's fine, but don't try and make it seem like people are retarded lemmings, succumbing to mind-control and forking over billions and billions of dollars for something they don't like. That's nonsense. It's insulting and arrogant.

not being arrogant, being a realist. when there's only a certain type of product available, people get used to consuming that. and from then on, they prefer that one, not because they're mindless robots, but because it's what's familiar.
anecdote: my father in law drinks only the cheapest coffee sold in stores (norway's version of folgers). he goes so far as to say that it's the best one sold in stores. it's not. it's just that when he first started drinking coffee the selection was awful, and it was the cheapest of the crap ones available. that doesn't make the flavor of that coffee good just because he still prefers it. it just simply means it's what he's known for years and years, so in his mind there's no reason to branch out.
 
Somebody shoot this thread. Please.

these are some of my favorite responses to threads like this. it kinda makes you start to wonder about that mindless robot thing mentioned above, doesn't it? when someone seems so clearly forced to read this type of thread, yet they hate every minute of it.

:mug:
 
Then why doesn't McDonald's control 97% of the hamburger market? Big Macs are crappy, but people got used to them early, so by your logic, they'd have no reason to branch out and try a Five Guys burger or a Works burger or any other kind of burger. They'd go to a pub and ask, "Do you guys have Big Macs?" "No, but we do have a Peppercorn Blue Cheese burger made from local beef." "Ugh, no thanks. I guess I'll just have some French fries. I only eat Big Macs, not that hipster, craft burger crap."
 
aabeerslob.gif
 
if you're talking about volume share, craft brew had 11% of the market in 2014. if you're talking dollar share, they had 19.3%. They only continue to see growth every year.
and i would bet you that fast-food burger chains share about the same market share.
 
these are some of my favorite responses to threads like this. it kinda makes you start to wonder about that mindless robot thing mentioned above, doesn't it? when someone seems so clearly forced to read this type of thread, yet they hate every minute of it.

:mug:

Another Internet Psychic! I didn't hate every minute of it. It was entertaining when joking about sympathy for AB. It suffered from a seemingly serious argument over the value of the company and their products.
Lighten up Francis, you can't actually shoot a thread. Other readers saw the humor in my post. Sorry you missed it.
 
I think we all just need to brew a Light American Lager, evaluate how the beer turns out, and if feasible, submit it to competition and see how it fairs (in terms of score).
 
I think we all just need to brew a Light American Lager, evaluate how the beer turns out, and if feasible, submit it to competition and see how it fairs (in terms of score).

Anyone got a source for Beechwood?
 
The part that I cannot phathom is why are there so many homebrewers who fanatically defend BMC.

I do not like Fat Tire. A beer that is infinitely better than BMC. If I were to post that I do not like Fat Tire, it would generate about 10 hits.

And no one would use some ridiculous phrase that Fat Tire is good because it is "consistent".

(Fat Tire is a well made beer, just not to my liking)
 
The part that I cannot phathom is why are there so many homebrewers who fanatically defend BMC.

I do not like Fat Tire. A beer that is infinitely better than BMC. If I were to post that I do not like Fat Tire, it would generate about 10 hits.

And no one would use some ridiculous phrase that Fat Tire is good because it is "consistent".

Because we are fanatically berated for drinking it.

Biggest prejudice in this community, for certain.

But I won't make the consistency argument, I'm just here for the fireworks.
 
consumers are idiots and will buy what they're told, .

Most indeed are sadly.
Why else would A/B spend millions each and every year for superbowl slots.
Repetition works.
Sex sells.
The avg Joe/Jane doesn't like to be forced into critical thinking,
Most just want some background noise on the radio for the workday or are trying to relax after work watching TV.
They preffer the ongoings of their day not be brought to a screeching halt due to something that demands/requires their full attention.
Even if only on a subconcious level hearing company x's ad on the radio will increas the chances for sales, same as seing it over and over from your favorite tv show.
It's the human brain and how it functions, nobody is completely free from it but some can from an outside perspective at least observe it and try to be aware when it is being bombarded by ads that have the sole motivation to seperate you from your wealth.
 
kombat said:
consumers are idiots and will buy what they're told
Most indeed are sadly.

Wow, the hubris is staggering.

If only the rest of society was as enlightened as us, eh? Kinda scary to think that that vast army of shallow-thinking, lazy morons are flying our airplanes, guarding our borders (with guns even!), processing our food, driving our buses, operating on patients... it's amazing we haven't rendered ourselves extinct yet.
 
Wow, the hubris is staggering.

If only the rest of society was as enlightened as us, eh? Kinda scary to think that that vast army of shallow-thinking, lazy morons are flying our airplanes, guarding our borders (with guns even!), processing our food, driving our buses, operating on patients... it's amazing we haven't rendered ourselves extinct yet.

Thanks... Saved me the trouble.

Quite the arrogant lot on this chit chat board these days..
 
Then explain why millions of penis enlargement pills are sold every day? At least that's what the hot doctor woman on TV says. Is it that so many men have small penises, or that a few men have really really small penises?
 
Wow, the hubris is staggering.

If only the rest of society was as enlightened as us, eh? Kinda scary to think that that vast army of shallow-thinking, lazy morons are flying our airplanes, guarding our borders (with guns even!), processing our food, driving our buses, operating on patients... it's amazing we haven't rendered ourselves extinct yet.

there's probably a balance somewhere in the middle that admits that we're all used to our old ways of doing things and very easily influenced by outside factors and don't like much change, and calling everyone mindless sheep. if you can't admit that advertising plays a major influence in things, then you're not really in touch with reality. most humans (myself and yourself included) are quite shallow thinkers. it's why the circles of poverty, hunger, human trafficking and the like still go on in our highly enlightened world. if the majority (or if even just the top 1% of the rich) in the world were deep thinkers, all of the aforementioned would end.
 
Of course marketing works. But "marking" and "history" and "regulation and policy" are not the reason Budweiser sells 100+ million barrels of beer every year.

Why can't you just admit that some people (smart ones, even) just plain like the taste of plain beer? Why does that offend you so much? Why is it so important to your ego that you elevate yourself above such people somehow?
 
I'm a sucker for clever advertising. It rarely influences my purchasing decisions, but I can appreciate the time and effort the advertising industry puts in to sell me stuff. I even like a good beer commercial, even if I never buy that brand of beer.

Ad money makes TV possible. Without it, we'd have HBO, PBS and 800 channels of pay per view. So, whatever puts basketball in front of my face, I'm fine with it.
 
i guess you missed that whole "myself included" part?
i'm not offended at all, and will even enjoy a free crappy lager or pils. i'll never pay for one, personally, but that won't keep me from drinking one.
why does it offend you so much that it could possibly be much bigger than that "people just enjoy tastelessness?"
 
I agree we need to be nice to each other, but that does not mean that I will accept BMC as beer. When threads like this appear I will state my opinion about BMC. Even at the risk of being called a crunchy hipster.

With the above in mind , You stated in an earlier thread that you like Busch beer. Have you seen anyone about this? ;)

I drink a ton of Busch Light, yes. The only person I've seen about it is the owner of the liquor store down the street. Asked if they had some kind of reward program... they don't.
 
why does it offend you so much that it could possibly be much bigger than that "people just enjoy tastelessness?"

Because I'm an Occam's Razor kind of guy. The simplest explanation, the one that makes the most sense, is most likely the correct one. It's not mind control or brainwashing, it's not government regulation or history, it's not people trying to get drunk as cheaply as possible. They've simply developed a taste for it, it's comfortable, they know what to expect, and they're not interested in developing a palette for more diverse flavour possibilities in their beer.

It offends me because it smacks of elitism. It implies you're better than they are, because you have an appreciation for Imperial Sours and they don't. You're the guy making fun of the guy ordering plain old chicken tenders while you're ordering 2 pounds of "suicide wings" at the pub.
 
This isn't really about beer, is it? Are you trying to make up for being incapable of taking on the suicide wings challenge?

What you've described isn't really Occam's Razor, the world is a little more complex. Now, if we were talking about the cabal of corn farmers and Hollywood that run this country. Oh wait.
 
Because I'm an Occam's Razor kind of guy. The simplest explanation, the one that makes the most sense, is most likely the correct one. It's not mind control or brainwashing, it's not government regulation or history, it's not people trying to get drunk as cheaply as possible. They've simply developed a taste for it, it's comfortable, they know what to expect, and they're not interested in developing a palette for more diverse flavour possibilities in their beer.

It offends me because it smacks of elitism. It implies you're better than they are, because you have an appreciation for Imperial Sours and they don't. You're the guy making fun of the guy ordering plain old chicken tenders while you're ordering 2 pounds of "suicide wings" at the pub.

where did that taste develop from? when is it most likely that people tried BMC beers first? yes, you're right, when they were drinking it to get drunk.....

it only smacks of elitism because of all the parts you're so willingly ignoring. like that part where i said that it's fact that everybody gets influenced by outside forces. like how someone mentioned about the mouth watering. do you think people aren't prone to that because the test was done with dogs? the difference is i'm just willing to admit it happens. it has nothing to do with that i don't eat crap food or drink crap food. but i have the guts to admit there are also better tasting things out there.
 

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