Brewing Saison

[IslandLizard]

I was planning on try to do a peppery saison this spring,

You can add some coarsely cracked pepper corns at the very end of the boil.

Traditionally brew recipes call for Grains of Paradise, which is also known as Poor Man's Pepper, as that was all that was available to the common man (and breweries) as real pepper was really (no, really!) expensive (coming from the Far East) and very sought after.

Now, in today's world, Grains of Paradise are hard to obtain, and will run $6-10 for a small 2-3 oz bottle (e.g., Whole Foods).
Use pepper, it works like a charm, you wouldn't know or notice the difference.

 

[TheKveiking]

Also, if you're worried about cross-contamination, Lallemand has their new non-STA1 saison strain that you could try. Selectively bred, not GMO, if that's a concern for you.

I was only worried because I’m new to really any yeast other than Ale strains.

You can add some coarsely cracked pepper corns at the very end of the boil.

Traditionally brew recipes call for Grains of Paradise, which is also known as Poor Man's Pepper, as that was all that was available to the common man (and breweries) as real pepper was really (no, really!) expensive (coming from the Far East) and very sought after.

Now, in today's world, Grains of Paradise are hard to obtain, and will run $6-10 for a small 2-3 oz bottle (e.g., Whole Foods).
Use pepper, it works like a charm, you wouldn't know or notice the difference.

Really! That’s an awesome snip of history. Funny enough my home brew store carries a bag a Grains of Paradise for $4ish. Always wonder what flavor they imparted.

 

[Gus_13]

Really! That’s an awesome snip of history. Funny enough my home brew store carries a bag a Grains of Paradise for $4ish. Always wonder what flavor they imparted.

I get more citrus in GoP than I do pepper. But I too was able to get some pretty cheap. I like using it in Saison and in Witbier too. One of my best beers last year was a Belgian Wit with GoP, coriander, and grapefruit peel.

 

[homebrudoc]

Yeah, leave it to me to try to post some help and never come back to a thread........I mentioned that using iodophor will help identify if your equipment is "clean"........

How so?
I have a bottle and have never used it, I've always stuck with StarSan.
Doesn't the iodophor stain if you get it on your hands or clothes?

Iodophor combines with starches to form a blue molecule. We used to use it to determine mash duration for starch conversion. If you use an occasional iodophor rinse for sanitizing, if there is any wort / beer left on equipment, it will turn blue and then you will blush and wonder how you've gotten away without a contaminated (STA1) batch or why you continue to have contaminated (STA1) batches.

hope this helps
homebrudoc

 

[Dr_Jeff]

Yeah, leave it to me to try to post some help and never come back to a thread........I mentioned that using iodophor will help identify if your equipment is "clean"........



Iodophor combines with starches to form a blue molecule. We used to use it to determine mash duration for starch conversion. If you use an occasional iodophor rinse for sanitizing, if there is any wort / beer left on equipment, it will turn blue and then you will blush and wonder how you've gotten away without a contaminated (STA1) batch or why you continue to have contaminated (STA1) batches.

hope this helps
homebrudoc

good to know, thx

 

[mashpaddled]

I get more citrus in GoP than I do pepper. But I too was able to get some pretty cheap. I like using it in Saison and in Witbier too. One of my best beers last year was a Belgian Wit with GoP, coriander, and grapefruit peel.

Yeah grains of paradise is more of like white pepper plus cardamom than black pepper.

 

[Gus_13]

Yeah grains of paradise is more of like white pepper plus cardamom than black pepper.

I can see that. Definitely the white pepper part. The stuff i have is for sure citrusy/fruity as well. Haven't gotten cardamom out of it but I'm sure it all differs.

 

[Miraculix]

That's right Imperial Rustic and Wyeast 3726 are supposedly the same (Blaugies) strain. I believe Omega Saison II is the same as well. I have not brewed with it though.

It is in the fermenter!

As predicted, very simple: 70% Pilsener, 30 Spelt flour. OG 1.41, 27 IBUs, 30g Mittelfrüh @10 minutes and the rest of the IBUs from Perle as 45 minute addition. 75 minute mash @ 65C, chilled down to 25 c and pitched directly from the pouch (I love Imperial for this). 12 hours later, HIGH Kräusen. I left the fermenter open (Speidel, nice big opening) and just covered it with a pice of thin polyester fabric to keep insects out. I will put an airlock on it, once it significantly slowed down. I placed the fermenter next to a heater, should be about 25 C there.

I was a bit suprised when opening the yeast pouch. The smell was not like I expected it to be, it was more like a Hefeweizen than a Saison, a bit of bubblegum, banana und clove but none of the lemon/pepper that I am after. Today, smelling the fermenting beer, totally different picture. The active fermentation goes much more into the direction that I want

 

[Miraculix]

Maaaaaan this smells INCREDIBLE now! The smell comming out of the fermenter is 100% what I had in mind! Lemon, ginger, pepper. AWESOME!!! I WANT TO DRINK IT NOOOOW!!!!!!!!!

 

[monkeymath]

Maaaaaan this smells INCREDIBLE now! The smell comming out of the fermenter is 100% what I had in mind! Lemon, ginger, pepper. AWESOME!!! I WANT TO DRINK IT NOOOOW!!!!!!!!!

Not to be a party pooper, but I generally find the smell coming from the fermenter to be only loosely related to the aroma of the final beer.

Moreover, if it's coming out of your fermentor, that also means it's out of your beer and gone. So what you're smelling are volatile compounds which are driven off. Maybe some of those are present in abundance and will make it into the final beer, although probably to a lesser extent, while others will be gone entirely.

(My fermentation chamber currently smells like fruity eggs, by the way. Hope my pilsner won't )

 

[Miraculix]

Not to be a party pooper, but I generally find the smell coming from the fermenter to be only loosely related to the aroma of the final beer.

Moreover, if it's coming out of your fermentor, that also means it's out of your beer and gone. So what you're smelling are volatile compounds which are driven off. Maybe some of those are present in abundance and will make it into the final beer, although probably to a lesser extent, while others will be gone entirely.

(My fermentation chamber currently smells like fruity eggs, by the way. Hope my pilsner won't )

I found this only to be true in terms of hop related aroma. And this stuff is not hop related here.

 

[Protos]

Not to be a party pooper, but I generally find the smell coming from the fermenter to be only loosely related to the aroma of the final beer.

Moreover, if it's coming out of your fermentor, that also means it's out of your beer and gone. So what you're smelling are volatile compounds which are driven off.

Totally agree.
I've gotten some of the best (and the weirdest) smells from my fermenters that never transferred to the final Beer.
Some of those smells were unbelievably good, and I tried to catch them to the bottle, multiple times, to no avail.
My conclusion was that, exactly, the smell coming from the fermenter to be only loosely related to the aroma of the final beer


My next Saison will be a dreaded peated one. I recently brewed a peated Porter for the first time (12% Simpsons Heavily Peated Malt) and found that it was not peated enough and that a Saison Yeast would fit the Peat much better than M15 or Windsor. 80% Peated Malt Saison. I'll post the results in a dedicated thread

 

[Gus_13]

Totally agree.
I've gotten some of the best (and the weirdest) smells from my fermenters that never transferred to the final Beer.
Some of those smells were unbelievably good, and I tried to catch them to the bottle, multiple times, to no avail.
My conclusion was that, exactly, the smell coming from the fermenter to be only loosely related to the aroma of the final beer


My next Saison will be a dreaded peated one. I recently brewed a peated Porter for the first time (12% Simpsons Heavily Peated Malt) and found that it was not peated enough and that a Saison Yeast would fit the Peat much better than M15 or Windsor. 80% Peated Malt Saison. I'll post the results in a dedicated thread

Just a madman!

 

[Protos]

Just a madman!

LOL
I'm not too much of a n00b (my next brew will be my Number 220) but I've just recently got acquainted with the Peated Malt. I don't drink strong liqours, so I'm totally innocent regarding the taste of the Peated Whisky, I've just never had tasted it. I was amazed by the gamut of aromas. In sack, it smells like Latakia Tobacco. In wort, it tastes like Gouache Paint. In beer, it tastes like a damp forest. Different at each stage! I totally love it.
Sweet and fruity Yeast-imparted flavours are totally incompatible with the Peat, as my fresh Porter taught me. What I need, I think, is a combination of different Phenols: those from Saison Yeast and those from the Peat Malt.
La Malterie du Château makes a great light-peated (just 5-10 ppm Phenols) malt exactly for that. I hope it would make a stellar Saison.

 

[Gus_13]

LOL
I'm not too much of a n00b (my next brew will be my Number 220) but I've just recently got acquainted with the Peated Malt. I don't drink strong liqours, so I'm totally innocent regarding the taste of the Peated Whisky, I've just never had tasted it. I was amazed by the gamut of aromas. In sack, it smells like Latakia Tobacco. In wort, it tastes like Gouache Paint. In beer, it tastes like a damp forest. Different at each stage! I totally love it.
Sweet and fruity Yeast-imparted flavours are totally incompatible with the Peat, as my fresh Porter taught me. What I need, I think, is a combination of different Phenols: those from Saison Yeast and those from the Peat Malt.
La Malterie du Château makes a great light-peated (just 5-10 ppm Phenols) malt exactly for that. I hope it would make a stellar Saison.

Forest and Main just did a collab of a Saison with some smoked malt. Not exactly the same but still not outside of the realm. I'd def read your thread when you post it.

 

[monkeymath]

Sweet and fruity Yeast-imparted flavours are totally incompatible with the Peat

That's exactly what I thought when I read you wanted to make a peated saison
I usually think of saisons as quite fruity. It certainly depends on the yeast strain, though. I recently used TYB Wallonian Farmhouse and the resulting beer came out very earthy with just a bit of red apple and pear. It's not really to my liking, to be honest. But maybe I just have to try it with some peated malt.

I once had a saison made with smoked malt. It was made by another homebrewer and I remember being very impressed. It was a low-gravity beer, at something like 9 plato, and I think that could help here as well (keeps the esters in check).

 

[Protos]

Hmmm... I don't find Saisons fruity at all (I don't pretend to have excellent tasting capabilities, though).
I'm limited to just dry yeasts, and none of them tastes to me fruity. They (Belle Saison, M29, M31, BE-134) are all phenolic less or more, and the most phenoic is M29 fermented warm. The rest produce just hints of Phenols and lots of tartness. Phenols and tartness in all of them, just in different proportions:

M29: High Phenols / Low Tartness / Zero Fruitiness
Belle Saison: Medium Phenols / High Tartness / Zero Fruitiness
BE-134: Low Phenols / Medium Tartness / Zero Fruitiness
M31: Low Phenols / Medium Tartness / Medium Fruitiness.

I have no experience with Liquid Yeasts, so what you are saying might be totally true for the Liquid Yeasts, I just don't know.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

My preferred yeast for Saison is WY3711

 

[Elric]

Totally agree.
I've gotten some of the best (and the weirdest) smells from my fermenters that never transferred to the final Beer.
Some of those smells were unbelievably good, and I tried to catch them to the bottle, multiple times, to no avail.
My conclusion was that, exactly, the smell coming from the fermenter to be only loosely related to the aroma of the final beer


My next Saison will be a dreaded peated one. I recently brewed a peated Porter for the first time (12% Simpsons Heavily Peated Malt) and found that it was not peated enough and that a Saison Yeast would fit the Peat much better than M15 or Windsor. 80% Peated Malt Saison. I'll post the results in a dedicated thread

After smelling several of my copitch lacto sours I can say that I am VERY pleased that smells coming from fermenter do not always equate to what you will get in the finished product!!!

I look forward to seeing your peat malt saison thread and your thoughts on how it turned out. I made a rauchbier with peated malt instead of beech smoked and I quite enjoyed it! It was 9% peated malt and 91% light munich, fermented with w-34/70.

 

[DuncB]

An occasional bath in iodophor is just good practice for all homebrewers. The iodophor will also show you where you haven't cleaned well.
hope this helps
homebrudoc

and it's easier to use than a spray tan!

 

[DuncB]

Traditionally brew recipes call for Grains of Paradise, which is also known as Poor Man's Pepper, as that was all that was available to the common man (and breweries) as real pepper was really (no, really!) expensive (coming from the Far East) and very sought after.

Hence the term peppercorn rent as it was currency in some cases.

 

[JAReeves]

I am looking to brewing a saison this weekend with a new-to-me yeast, Imperial Napoleon. It was suggested to me that I would get the most citrus/pepper flavor from this strain compared to others. I have used M29 previously; it was only ok so I pitched some wild bugs and secondaried on apricots to jazz it up. I also have a collection of saison yeasts from Russian River and DuPont bottles that I am going to use for a full batch this summer, not sure how that will turn out. I really am not a fan of the esters that are the highlight of Belgian beers, so I am hoping for the phenolics to shine through.

 

[monkeymath]

I am looking to brewing a saison this weekend with a new-to-me yeast, Imperial Napoleon. It was suggested to me that I would get the most citrus/pepper flavor from this strain compared to others. I have used M29 previously; it was only ok

Please do report back on the results!
I thought (with any actual evidence to support that claim) that the"French saison strains" (Imperial Napoleon, Wyeast 3711, MJ 29, Belle Saison, etc ) were all the same strain. (Even so, you might get different results comparing dried to liquid yeast.)

 

[Miraculix]

Just a madman!

Took a sample today. Is rustic supposed to be quite tart? the gavity went down to 1.004 or maybe 1.005, hard to say. I think I will bottle tomorrow. The taste is certainly interesting and very saison-ish.

Edit: yes, the internet agrees that this yeast comes with some tartness. It's not bad at all, I was just a bit surprised and me having some infection problems within my last batches because of being stupid myself sometimes, didn't help here.

 

[monkeymath]

Took a sample today. Is rustic supposed to be quite tart? the gavity went down to 1.004 or maybe 1.005, hard to say. I think I will bottle tomorrow. The taste is certainly interesting and very saison-ish.

Edit: yes, the internet agrees that this yeast comes with some tartness. It's not bad at all, I was just a bit surprised and me having some infection problems within my last batches because of being stupid myself sometimes, didn't help here.

I think it's always difficult to communicate such things. "Tartness" is a rather broad term and people might disagree on whether a given beer has no, some or significant tartness.

I didn't find my beers made with Rustic acidic in any way, but possibly some of what I perceive as a "crisp lightness" is due to a reduced pH which others might describe as "tart"? Or maybe mine just finished a little higher pH-wise.
I recently had the last bottle of a now >1yr old old saison made with Rustic and my friend actually said he found it slightly sour. Dunno.

 

[Miraculix]

I think it's always difficult to communicate such things. "Tartness" is a rather broad term and people might disagree on whether a given beer has no, some or significant tartness.

I didn't find my beers made with Rustic acidic in any way, but possibly some of what I perceive as a "crisp lightness" is due to a reduced pH which others might describe as "tart"? Or maybe mine just finished a little higher pH-wise.
I recently had the last bottle of a now >1yr old old saison made with Rustic and my friend actually said he found it slightly sour. Dunno.

Slightly sour is how I would describe it if somebody asked me to describe it in other words. It is not that strong and it might even be more in the background once carbonated, but the flat sample definitely was more tart than the usual ale or lager.

 

[Alan Reginato]

Hmmm... I don't find Saisons fruity at all (I don't pretend to have excellent tasting capabilities, though).
I'm limited to just dry yeasts, and none of them tastes to me fruity. They (Belle Saison, M29, M31, BE-134) are all phenolic less or more, and the most phenoic is M29 fermented warm. The rest produce just hints of Phenols and lots of tartness. Phenols and tartness in all of them, just in different proportions:

M29: High Phenols / Low Tartness / Zero Fruitiness
Belle Saison: Medium Phenols / High Tartness / Zero Fruitiness
BE-134: Low Phenols / Medium Tartness / Zero Fruitiness
M31: Low Phenols / Medium Tartness / Medium Fruitiness.

I have no experience with Liquid Yeasts, so what you are saying might be totally true for the Liquid Yeasts, I just don't know.

Hi, same thing here. Just dry yeast.

I think the flavour profile of yeasts tends to be related with fermentation conditions, specially temperature. I got a split batch with BE-134, one at room temperature (reached 28C) and other in ice bath (22C) and got very different results. Phenolic for the first and pear for the last (or something like it).
An interesting thing was that after 5 months the phenolic flavour fade away and I can't tell beers apart now.

In my fermenters, now, I've a split batch with Voss kveik and BE-134 slurry.

For the next, I already brought a new BE-134, M29 French Saison and a Belle Saison. With a cleaner recipe (bitter, of course) and 3 fermenters I'll try to evaluate the differences between them, at a similar fermentation temperature. A lot of brewers think that M29 and Belle are the same yeast. You brewed with both.

What's your perception about it?

 

[Protos]

Well, many (actually, most) Mangrove Jack's dry yeasts are believed to be just repacked versions of Lallemand's. That well may be true but it seems that MJ not just repack, they also alter Lallemand's yeasts in some way, most probably by blending. Or otherwise the producer may sell them for OEM-retailing not exactly the same grades / batches of the product that Lallemamd sells under its own brand.
I think so because in my experience all MJ / Lal "matching pairs" consistently produce very similar but not identical results, including in split batches.

Regarding M29 and Belle Saison, the yeasts are very similar but, again, not identical. In my experience, M29 produces a bit more phenols and noticeably less tartness. Both are equally weak in ester production. Overtall, I think M29 is better flavourwise. Actually, the choise between the two depends on how tart you like your Saisons. If you prefer more tartness, your best choise is Belle Saison. I like it less acidic, so I mostly use M29.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Good info on the dry yeasts. I picked up a pack of M29 to either just brew a batch with or do a split yeast trail. I have a few other dry yeasts around like Belle, Farmhouse and Abbaye.

With many Saison yeasts I get a apple/pear character. It is not my favorite character in a Saison. People often describe Saison yeasts a "bubblegum." The typical American cheap bubblegum flavoring is a mix of Strawberry and Banana flavorings. I got a little bit of that in the only batch I have done with Belle.

Late last year I did a batch with WLP565 (the Dupont strain) and then a month later I brewed the same recipe but used Lallemand Farmhouse. I have generally felt that my WLP565 batches improve with a few months in the bottle. When I first tried these batches side by side, they seemed quite similar. When I opened a bottle of each yesterday, the WLP565 version had much more of a peppery character and more complexity.

 

[Miraculix]

I also read taht people describe rustic as bubble gum flavour producing. There was zero bubble gum in my hydrometer sample. I have had bubble gum in a wheat bock once, do not remember the name, and it was INTENSE, but not in a saison so far.

 

[Gus_13]

I also read taht people describe rustic as bubble gum flavour producing. There was zero bubble gum in my hydrometer sample. I have had bubble gum in a wheat bock once, do not remember the name, and it was INTENSE, but not in a saison so far.

Since I never temp control my Saisons anymore they rarely exceed 76ish or so whatever room temp is plus the extra heat from fermentation. I tend to get more earthy/spicy notes at this temp with a touch of light tartness. Fruitiness comes out more at higher temps for me. My old house strain of Rustic I had the ferm chamber set to 86 before and it was really fruity but not the bubblegum kind. I actually think I've gotten more bubblegum from Dupont strains if I remember but I haven't used that in forever. I always open fermented hot with that strain to avoid the stall.

 

[Ninoid]

I brew Saison a dozen times and I liked the one with M29 yeast (true, I only tried the one with BE-134 which is good but too clean, like it is with US-05 yeast but for highest fermentation temperature). However, I have not yet tried to add black pepper, which I read in one of the recipes mentioned here. I think that’s the first thing I’ll try when Saison season starts, in the summer. By the way, I think the recipe with 1/2 pilsner, 1/4 wheat malt and 1/4 simple sugar is the standard Saison recipe.

 

[Protos]

My next Saison will be a dreaded peated one. I recently brewed a peated Porter for the first time (12% Simpsons Heavily Peated Malt) and found that it was not peated enough and that a Saison Yeast would fit the Peat much better than M15 or Windsor. 80% Peated Malt Saison. I'll post the results in a dedicated thread

Last week I tasted my first Peated Rye Saison.
Châteu Peated Malt (5 ppm phenols) at 40% of the total grist, M29 yeast.
Nice Rye Saison. Zero Peat flavour. Absolutely no traces of Peat aroma. No Peat at all. What a joke.
As a Sasion, the brew is a win. As a Peated Beer, the brew is a fail.

Next time I will make my Peated Saison with 80% Simpsons Heavily Peated (45 ppm phenols) Malt.

 

[Miraculix]

Last week I tasted my first Peated Rye Saison.
Châteu Peated Malt (5 ppm phenols) at 40% of the total grist, M29 yeast.
Nice Rye Saison. Zero Peat flavour. Absolutely no traces of Peat aroma. No Peat at all. What a joke.
As a Sasion, the brew is a win. As a Peated Beer, the brew is a fail.

Next time I will make my Peated Saison with 80% Simpsons Heavily Peated (45 ppm phenols) Malt.

From one extreme into the other. At least the non peated version was drinkable!

 

[Protos]

More than just drinkable, it's really good! It's actually my well-tuned "house beer" which I've brewed maybe a dozen times already. Just added some Peat this time, which didn't come through for some reason.

 

[DuncB]

So you re peat your " house beer".

 

[monkeymath]

Last week I tasted my first Peated Rye Saison.
Châteu Peated Malt (5 ppm phenols) at 40% of the total grist, M29 yeast.
Nice Rye Saison. Zero Peat flavour. Absolutely no traces of Peat aroma. No Peat at all. What a joke.
As a Sasion, the brew is a win. As a Peated Beer, the brew is a fail.

Next time I will make my Peated Saison with 80% Simpsons Heavily Peated (45 ppm phenols) Malt.

Before I started homebrewing myself, I was at a "craft beer event" in Hamburg where the local homebrewers are also present and share their beers. One of their beers was a "smokey saison", very light at something around 4% abv iirc, with mellow phenolics and some well-integrated smoke.
I don't remember a lot of beers that I had some seven years ago, but this one I remember.

Also, we're going to need the recipe for your "house beer"

 

[Protos]

Recently, when learning Peated Malt (I didn't know the flavour before and still have never tasted peated whiskies), I thought that combining Saison yeast phenolic with Peat phenolics might actually produce a very pleasant mix. For long, I've been perceiving Saisony phenolic flavours as somewhat smokey, so I decided to marry it with some actual smoke. The first attempt turned out underwhelming, as reported above.
Maybe I'm just not sensitive enough to Peat phenols, IDK. Almost every posting I read in dedicated threads on various brewing forums were preaching as an absolute certainity that I would cry uncle if I dare to use more than 4% of Peat in any brew. I made a 12% 45ppm Peat Porter, and barely tasted the flavour. 40% 5ppm Peat in Saison had no smokey impact at all, whether on flavour or aroma.
So, I'm still to complete my experiment on mixing different kinds of phenolic smokiness.

My "house Saison" is as simple as a Saison should be: 70% Belgian Pilsner, 15% Belgian Munich, 15% Belgian Rye, 25 IBU from Fuggle or its derivatives (Magnum, Steirischer Golding, Northern Brewer, Brewers Gold etc.) in single addition, M29 yeast fermented as hot as possible, 1.060 SG, 7% ABV. That's all, I love that beer a lot and brew it often. Maybe, because of the Rye, it's not as thin as many would prefer, but it's what I prefer, and I value Saisons not as much for their dryness as for their unique phenolic yeast profile.

 

[Miraculix]

Recently, when learning Peated Malt (I didn't know the flavour before and still have never tasted peated whiskies), I thought that combining Saison yeast phenolic with Peat phenolics might actually produce a very pleasant mix. For long, I've been perceiving Saisony phenolic flavours as somewhat smokey, so I decided to marry it with some actual smoke. The first attempt turned out underwhelming, as reported above.
Maybe I'm just not sensitive enough to Peat phenols, IDK. Almost every posting I read in dedicated threads on various brewing forums were preaching as an absolute certainity that I would cry uncle if I dare to use more than 4% of Peat in any brew. I made a 12% 45ppm Peat Porter, and barely tasted the flavour. 40% 5ppm Peat in Saison had no smokey impact at all, whether on flavour or aroma.
So, I'm still to complete my experiment on mixing different kinds of phenolic smokiness.

My "house Saison" is as simple as a Saison should be: 70% Belgian Pilsner, 15% Belgian Munich, 15% Belgian Rye, 25 IBU from Fuggle or its derivatives (Magnum, Steirischer Golding, Northern Brewer, Brewers Gold etc.) in single addition, M29 yeast fermented as hot as possible, 1.060 SG, 7% ABV. That's all, I love that beer a lot and brew it often. Maybe, because of the Rye, it's not as thin as many would prefer, but it's what I prefer, and I value Saisons not as much for their dryness as for their unique phenolic yeast profile.

The problem might be that you are comparing apples with pears (nice German saying, isn't it?).

There are smoked or peated malts that barely have any smoke on it and there is the exact opposite of it which will create an ashtray-like aroma, when overused.

I really don't like rauchbier but I love a good peated whiskey, also the extreme ones like Laphroaig.

I've never had any peated or smoked beer that actually worked for me, except for one marvelous porter which incorporated a hint of smoke in a really really good way. It's all about balance. Don't overdo it!

 

[Protos]

Probably, that's all about individual perception.
I love Rauchbiers and the recently learned smoked Danish Skibøls but I'm never satisfied with what I brew, be that Weyermann (both Oak and Beech smoked), Bestmalz, Ireks, Château or whichever else smoked malts I've tried: it's just not enough smokiness to me, even at 100% of the grist.

Being a heavy pipe smoker might play a role here but I don't know for sure.
Smoking doesn't seem to alter my perception of other smoked foods.