Brewing Saison

[mashpaddled]

I used WY3711 for a long time. It's kinda boring at cooler temperatures but in the mid to upper 80s it develops a more interesting lemon-pepper flavor. These days I like WY3726 (or its several comparables at other labs) which has a more complex fruit flavor and doesn't need to be fermented as warm.

I've brewed a lot of saison but not had problems with excess fermentation or carbonation. These yeast aren't more rugged than others (certainly less so than brett) but thorough cleaning and sanitation should be employed.

 

[monkeymath]

Are there any at all, besides M29, BE-134 and Belle Saison?
M31 is sometimes rumoured to be another dry Saison strain (ostensibly repacked BE-134, which is hardly true, as Fermentis most probably don't sell their yeast rebranded). M31 does produce some slight Saison-like notes (closer to BE-134 than to M29, if anything), but it's apparently a blend with just a bit of Saison yeast, so not a true Saison yeast.

I wonder how you define "Saison yeast"?

 

[Protos]

Well, as I understand it, Saison yeasts could be [unscientifically] defined as Diastaticus, POF Positive strains, the flavour profile of which is characterized primarily by phenols rather than esters (unlike in fruity-forward Abbey strains, where phenols take a back seat behind the more accentuated esters).

Phenolic-forward character seems to be such an important descriptor, that some, as we see here, are OK with including even a non-Diaststic engineered strain, Lalbrew Farmhouse, into the Saison category because it produces a primarily phenolic aroma. (Me personally, I'm against lumping non-Diastatic yeasts with Saisons, but that's just me).

So, I deny M31 being a true Saison yeast because along with some slight Saison-like phenolic notes, it has much more pronounced ester character, putting it much closer to Abbey/Trappist yeasts than to any other Saison (which is quite logical, since Tripel is a Trappist, not a Farmhouse, style).

 

[monkeymath]

Well, as I understand it, Saison yeasts could be [unscientifically] defined as Diastaticus, POF Positive strains, the flavour profile of which is characterized primarily by phenols rather than esters (unlike in fruity-forward Abbey strains, where phenols take a back seat behind the more accentuated esters).

Interesting, I had never thought of it that way. I agree that Saisons should be phenolic, but I'm not sure whether they *have* to be the prevalent character. I have to admit I haven't yet had a whole lot of commercial saisons. "Saison de Dottignies" by Brouwerij de Ranke did not strike me as overly phenolic - in fact barely phenolic at all. Certainly less phenolic that many Hefeweizens.

The emphasis on STA1+ surprised me, since the genetic information itself is not directly observable to us. What we do see is high attenuation, which is, however, merely a number, which does not necessarily correspond to a sensory impression. The "French Saison" yeasts all have absurdly high attenuation, yet produce a rather thick and sweet beer - which in my head disqualifies those beers from being Saisons, although they are generally agreed to be Saisons.

It's a subtle issue, I think.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

It's a subtle issue, I think.

Somebody had put out an article talking about the idea that the American focus on a "Saison Yeast" being a bit out of place. That there are breweries in Belgium making "Saisons" with a wide variety of yeasts, some which are very similar to a bland American Ale Yeast. I can see the point.

Personally, I really like Saison Dupont. That beer and the yeast character is what I strive for in a Saison. I like the idea of getting all my "spice" character from the yeast, so I have not played with adding additional spices. I also have not taken the steps into getting "farmhouse" characters from Brett or other microbes (though a Brett Saison is somewhere on my todo list).

It is like an IPA, or any other style. There is a wide range of preferences and there are a range of ways to get there.

 

[Protos]

The Saison/Abbey distinction is not a biological one. What we may call "the Belgian Diastatics" is actually a many-shaded gamut of strains, displaying ester/phenolic character in different proportions. But it's pretty established cultural/gastronomical distinction: Saisons derive from countryside culture while Trappist Beers come from monastic brewing tradition. Most Saisons are more phenolic than Trappist, while most Trappists are more estery than Saisons. There might be exceptions, of course, but in most cases the distinction is quite clear and logical.

Emphasis on STA is very inportant, in my opinion. It's a defining feature of that type of yeast as it's not a cultural or gastronomical concept, but a distinct biological trait: all those yeasts are capable of fermenting Maltotriose, which many other families of brewer yeasts can't. And if Saison/Trappist yeasts sometimes produce full mouthfeel despite high attenuation, they do so by entirely different chemical mechanism than non-Diastatic strains. With the Diastatic yeasts, fullness (or rather slickness) comes because of Glycerol, while with non-Diastatic it's Dextrin that makes us percept the fullness.

there are breweries in Belgium making "Saisons" with a wide variety of yeasts, some which are very similar to a bland American Ale Yeast.

No doubts, some breweries there now brew Saisons with "Kveik" strains, catty hops and pumpkin smoothies. I mean, did they do so when the style was forming and defining (i.e. up to the middle of the last century) or is that yeast diversity just a modern trend? If the practice is traditional, it would be interesting to learn which other traditional strains, beside STA POF+ Saison, they use. Some Kölsch-like strains, probably? And in which part of Belgium: French or Dutch? It's important, because in the last case it might be completely different style: a relic of mediaeval Northern Germanic (Dutch imcluded) Ale tradition. In that case, the closest relative of the "bland American Ale-type Saisons" could be not French Saisons or Trappist Ales, but Kuits, Alts, Bruins, German Browns and Kölsches.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Here is at least one article on the topic:
https://beerandbrewing.com/brasserie-de-la-sennes-yvan-de-baets-explains-saisons-greatest-myth-the/
I don't care much about STA1+. High attenuation is often a desirable characteristic (though maybe less so if you are aiming for a flavorful Saison in the "historical" ABV range of 3-4%). I feel like there are plenty of ways to manipulate the fermentability of the wort without a STA1+. A handful of vendors have STA1- "Saison" strains.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Here is another one (though the focus is more on Belgian beers than specifically Saisons):
https://beerandbrewing.com/belgian-beer-youre-probably-doing-it-wrong/
A Belgian brewer once blew my mind by telling me that he was using the equivalent of Safale US-05 American ale yeast. He was understandably reluctant to let that information slip out. American yeast doesn’t make Belgian beer, does it? Well, of course it does. If it’s made in Belgium.

 

[Gus_13]

I brewed Saison exclusively for a few years. During that time I used almost every yeast available except for some of the brand new ones from the last 2-3 years. For clean (non brett) Saison I like Imperial Rustic or Wyeast 3726. If wanting a dry BE-134 has produced some nice beers for me and provided more flavor than Belle. Although Belle will work in a pinch similar to 3711 working in a pinch but not being my prefered. 3711 does play nicely with new world hops.

One thing I've always wanted my Saison beers to be was supremely drinkable. I almost always mash at 146-148F and never do a mashout. I pitch at room temp 68-72F and let it naturally free rise to whatever it gets to. I've had ferments at 80+F.

Since most of my beers tend to dry to 1.006 and lower, I use things like spelt, wheat, and oats in the grist to give some body. If you use Belle or 3711, they do produce body themselves so it would not be needed there. Typically a Pilsner base for me anywhere from 70-90% of the total. Some of my best beers have been 90% Pilsner and 10% wheat in various forms from raw or malted.

I used to boil for 90 min but even now with a mostly pilsner base I only go 60ish min maybe sometimes 75. Use something noble for the bittering at 60 min and play with new world hops during late additions and dry hops. My favorite combinations are EKG with Amarillo and Saaz with Hallertau Blanc.

IMO this style should be very simple and a very homebrewer friendly beer. Easy to brew on a stovetop or a complicated 3V herms. Very fun and very drinkable beers. Most of my friends enjoy them even if they aren't beer geeks and my wife loves them often comparing some of the flavors to white wine. Since they typically don't take long to brew, it's quick and easy to knock them out.

I used to write a blog that had a lot of information on it. Most deal with some mixed fermentation but some of it clean. My "Kathleen" recipe is my favorite recipe I've ever written and I've brewed it a dozen or more times. Check it if out if you want some old school blog reading.

The Farmhouse Obsession

 

[Protos]

Great article from Thiriez! Haven't read it before, somehow missed it. Everything one needs to know bout Saisons, from the horse's mouth. He's right: the modern concept of the Saison is way narrower than it used to be originally. That's not an excuse to brew it with "Kveik" yeast, however

Regarding the second, now I see. I've read it. Just an isolated case of use of US-05 by a modern brewer. Pity. I hoped to discover a "Kölschy Saison" style.

 

[Gus_13]

Anybody here have trouble with spreading STA1 due to saison yeast?

Never had an issue with standard cleaning and sanitizing. Used same Speidels for Saison, Bitters, and even some Lagers.

 

[Miraculix]

I brewed Saison exclusively for a few years. During that time I used almost every yeast available except for some of the brand new ones from the last 2-3 years. For clean (non brett) Saison I like Imperial Rustic or Wyeast 3726. If wanting a dry BE-134 has produced some nice beers for me and provided more flavor than Belle. Although Belle will work in a pinch similar to 3711 working in a pinch but not being my prefered. 3711 does play nicely with new world hops.

One thing I've always wanted my Saison beers to be was supremely drinkable. I almost always mash at 146-148F and never do a mashout. I pitch at room temp 68-72F and let it naturally free rise to whatever it gets to. I've had ferments at 80+F.

Since most of my beers tend to dry to 1.006 and lower, I use things like spelt, wheat, and oats in the grist to give some body. If you use Belle or 3711, they do produce body themselves so it would not be needed there. Typically a Pilsner base for me anywhere from 70-90% of the total. Some of my best beers have been 90% Pilsner and 10% wheat in various forms from raw or malted.

I used to boil for 90 min but even now with a mostly pilsner base I only go 60ish min maybe sometimes 75. Use something noble for the bittering at 60 min and play with new world hops during late additions and dry hops. My favorite combinations are EKG with Amarillo and Saaz with Hallertau Blanc.

IMO this style should be very simple and a very homebrewer friendly beer. Easy to brew on a stovetop or a complicated 3V herms. Very fun and very drinkable beers. Most of my friends enjoy them even if they aren't beer geeks and my wife loves them often comparing some of the flavors to white wine. Since they typically don't take long to brew, it's quick and easy to knock them out.

I used to write a blog that had a lot of information on it. Most deal with some mixed fermentation but some of it clean. My "Kathleen" recipe is my favorite recipe I've ever written and I've brewed it a dozen or more times. Check it if out if you want some old school blog reading.

The Farmhouse Obsession

Great blog, thanks for sharing.

It looks like we like the same type of saisons. What was your favourite yeast so far?

 

[shoreman]

One of the reasons I have always loved Belgian Beers and Belgian brewers is that there are no rules - just be creative and make flavorful beers.

I have an album with about 200 Belgian beer labels - some old, some new. Most don’t have a “style” labeled, it’s just the name of the beer and the brewery

 

[Gus_13]

Great blog, thanks for sharing.

It looks like we like the same type of saisons. What was your favourite yeast so far?

Yeah life got in the way of continuing the blog but it was a lot of fun and I seem to still get a lot of people stopping by to read it so I keep it up.

Favorite overall yeast for Saison is Rustic/3726. I do like 3724/565 as well but only if I can ramp the temp on them. All the Wallonian strains from The Yeast Bay are great too. I believe Wallonian II is non-diastatic. I used their Saison I and II blends a lot in my brewing when they first came out. I'd brew 10ish gallons and split three ways. Those bottling days were VERY long.

I had a "house" strain of Rustic that I kept going like a sourdough yeast starter for probably 3 years that was really great. Each time I'd brew I'd make a starter and keep 250ml of the starter back to use again. It definitely drifted over time and was really fruity but always finished at 1.000. The past two years I didn't brew as much and the year before that I brewed more British and German beers so that "house" culture had to go down the drain. But now days I always just pickup Rustic when I brew Saison.

If you like brett Saisons every beer I've made with Omega C2C and WLP670 have been crowd favorites and done well in beer swaps over the years. I like using them if I don't coupage or make my own Sacc/Brett blends.

 

[Drewch]

It's a subtle issue, I think.

For better or worse, I think that to the average American craft beer drinker, Saison means anything that tastes like Saison DuPont. Thus saison yeast would be any yeast that imparts those fermentation characteristics.

 

[Miraculix]

Yeah life got in the way of continuing the blog but it was a lot of fun and I seem to still get a lot of people stopping by to read it so I keep it up.

Favorite overall yeast for Saison is Rustic/3726. I do like 3724/565 as well but only if I can ramp the temp on them. All the Wallonian strains from The Yeast Bay are great too. I believe Wallonian II is non-diastatic. I used their Saison I and II blends a lot in my brewing when they first came out. I'd brew 10ish gallons and split three ways. Those bottling days were VERY long.

I had a "house" strain of Rustic that I kept going like a sourdough yeast starter for probably 3 years that was really great. Each time I'd brew I'd make a starter and keep 250ml of the starter back to use again. It definitely drifted over time and was really fruity but always finished at 1.000. The past two years I didn't brew as much and the year before that I brewed more British and German beers so that "house" culture had to go down the drain. But now days I always just pickup Rustic when I brew Saison.

If you like brett Saisons every beer I've made with Omega C2C and WLP670 have been crowd favorites and done well in beer swaps over the years. I like using them if I don't coupage or make my own Sacc/Brett blends.

Great, thanks for the heads up. I also cannot actively heat the fermenter, so I will probably try Rustic next. I really like brett but what always scared me away is the long waiting time. Does this also apply when using diastatic yeasts as the co pitch with the brett? I would not want the saison yeast to finish at 1.04 and then bottle just to find out that the brett finishes the last 4 points in the bottle and makes them explode.....

Edit: You meant that Rustic from Imperial Yeast is your favourite, right?

 

[Gus_13]

Great, thanks for the heads up. I also cannot actively heat the fermenter, so I will probably try Rustic next. I really like brett but what always scared me away is the long waiting time. Does this also apply when using diastatic yeasts as the co pitch with the brett? I would not want the saison yeast to finish at 1.04 and then bottle just to find out that the brett finishes the last 4 points in the bottle and makes them explode.....

In my experiences over the years and my long studies and talks in the early days of MTF Diastatic yeast is the best to use with Brett because the phenols are converted to other flavors as well as the beer gets pretty dry. I've tested a few bottles and only seen them drop maaayyyybe .002 over many months. So when my beers are 1.006 or lower, I don't fear bottling. I typically shoot for 3.0+ vols when I bottle so if I am worried I'll drop it to 2.8 vols or so. And I'm always using heavy bottles for those anyway. Just a week ago I opened a 3 year old BdG that was fermented with Belgian yeast, Lager Yeast, and 2 strains of Brett. FG was 1.004 when it went into bottles. Carbonation was high but not much higher than when the beer was 3-4 months old so I doubt there was much further fermentation.

 

[Miraculix]

In my experiences over the years and my long studies and talks in the early days of MTF Diastatic yeast is the best to use with Brett because the phenols are converted to other flavors as well as the beer gets pretty dry. I've tested a few bottles and only seen them drop maaayyyybe .002 over many months. So when my beers are 1.006 or lower, I don't fear bottling. I typically shoot for 3.0+ vols when I bottle so if I am worried I'll drop it to 2.8 vols or so. And I'm always using heavy bottles for those anyway. Just a week ago I opened a 3 year old BdG that was fermented with Belgian yeast, Lager Yeast, and 2 strains of Brett. FG was 1.004 when it went into bottles. Carbonation was high but not much higher than when the beer was 3-4 months old so I doubt there was much further fermentation.

That is really good to hear, I really have to get one going then, probably the next beer after the one I brew this weekend. You meant Imperial Yeast Rustic two posts above, right?

 

[Protos]

Diastatic yeast is the best to use with Brett because the phenols are converted to other flavors

Noticed the same. It was like revelation: Bretted Saison came out non-phenolic, non-bretty, but full of entirely new flavours.
Probably, that's the way the authentic traditional Saison was meant to be (as de Baets says in the article above).

(Still I like the "modern" non-bretted phenolic version more, to be honest).

 

[mashpaddled]

No doubts, some breweries there now brew Saisons with "Kveik" strains, catty hops and pumpkin smoothies. I mean, did they do so when the style was forming and defining (i.e. up to the middle of the last century) or is that yeast diversity just a modern trend? If the practice is traditional, it would be interesting to learn which other traditional strains, beside STA POF+ Saison, they use. Some Kölsch-like strains, probably? And in which part of Belgium: French or Dutch? It's important, because in the last case it might be completely different style: a relic of mediaeval Northern Germanic (Dutch imcluded) Ale tradition. In that case, the closest relative of the "bland American Ale-type Saisons" could be not French Saisons or Trappist Ales, but Kuits, Alts, Bruins, German Browns and Kölsches.

This is still a very Americans on the outside looking in and rendering a narrow opinion of the style take. Dupont and similar beers are the best known in the style but there are a lot of saison brewers who get little to no distribution who do not fit into the BJCP guide or follow Dupont's lead. Look at Fantome, which primarily gets categorized with saisons for the most part, which brews beers far different from Dupont and other major producers.

We Americans are too focused on categorizing the world around us into narrow definitions that makes the world easily digestible and able to define what is right and wrong but that view is not shared by the rest of the world.

 

[Protos]

Well, the BJCP classification has its merits and flaws. From one side, there's a total mess with English styles, from another, German styles are categorised quite well (albeit incomplete).
Difficulties with many categories arose just because many of those styles - like Saisons - were already dead or dying in their native cultures. And the Founding Fathers who created the BJCP styleguide weren't professional historians, after all, to have the full scope of foreign brewing traditions. I think it would be utterly chauvinistic to state that the urge to categorize the world is a unique American thing (it's not) BJCP prevailed rather because the others just didn't care to codify their brewing heritage, letting it vanish. No wonder, that some modern "rebirth" projects in Europe are grounded on the flawed BJCP styleguides rather than on local traditions, that have almost vaned without leaving much knowledge behind. Luckily, the trend is changing, and more thorough and fumdamental researches in local beer history start to emerge. Patterson, Garshol, Krennmeier, Mulder, Verberg and many others. That's the future of the trade, I hope.

It's not unlike in Australia, you know, where much of what is now proudly toted as "authentic millenia-old living Aboriginal culture" is actually mere modern interpretations taken from Western ethnographic records of 1850s-1930s, because the original chain of passing traditions had been cut decades before the current surge of interest to the subject.
In one word, BJCP has got its messy parts, but without it the mess would be much worse.

Disclaimer: I am not an American but I am a historian, so could be a bit opinionated. BJCP is essentially about brewing history, and as an attempt to draw a preliminary non-scientific practical sketch of the world beer heritage I deem it high, even despite its obvious and serious flaws.

 

[Miraculix]

The problem is not that they try to put everything into boxes, the problem is that so many people pretend that these bjcp boxes are relevant to the whole world. To my knowledge this bjcp stuff was invented to create a framework for competitions and had not much to do with the urge to preserve historical knowledge about different beers.

So imo, everybody please continue your bjcp categorisation based competitions but please leave the rest of the world alone with it. Every time I read a sentence like "But according to bjcp category xyz this beer should be..... to be according to style", I puke a little.

 

[Protos]

Yep, BJCP (and BA Guidelines which are the same) was created with a specific (and, actually, very humble and narrow) task in mind. Which it probably serves well on a practical level: on competitions, you have a specific category for any of your beery creations as long as you brew Pitch Black, Simply Black, Dark-Brown, Light-Brown, Red, Tan, Golden, Yellow, White or Slightly Whitish IPAs.
"Vulgarisation" of the styles you are describing above is inevitable when there's the single and sole printed source of structurized information. That happens not only to beer styles, the principle is universal for any field of culture studies: if something is written and if there's no written alternatives, it gradually becomes an axiome and transforms into the common wisdom even if it's wrong.
When the emerging generation of beer historians (historians, not other professionals-turned-brewers) write a new scientific revised comprehensive classification of beers, things will be quite different. But they haven't yet.
Meanwhile, the Dupont-like conception of Saison is getting weight as an established axiome, as a tradition in its own right, I [not really] afraid. As well as the "Northern" and "Southern" Browns, and the whole cute "ESB" Category. From the view of Cultural History, there's no much sin in it - it's just a part of the ongoing cultural process: transforming old styles and retro-inventing new, whatever's the historical accuracy...

 

[Gus_13]

That is really good to hear, I really have to get one going then, probably the next beer after the one I brew this weekend. You meant Imperial Yeast Rustic two posts above, right?

That's right Imperial Rustic and Wyeast 3726 are supposedly the same (Blaugies) strain. I believe Omega Saison II is the same as well. I have not brewed with it though.

 

[Miraculix]

That's right Imperial Rustic and Wyeast 3726 are supposedly the same (Blaugies) strain. I believe Omega Saison II is the same as well. I have not brewed with it though.

Brilliant, thanks. My next brew after the one today will be 30% spelt flour, 70% pilsner, 25 IBUs with noble hops samll late additions, if any at all, OG about 1.04, open fermented the first 3 days with one pack of Rustic at room temperature, starting at about 23-25C, from there on no temperature control. That should do it.

 

[Gus_13]

Noticed the same. It was like revelation: Bretted Saison came out non-phenolic, non-bretty, but full of entirely new flavours.
Probably, that's the way the authentic traditional Saison was meant to be (as de Baets says in the article above).

(Still I like the "modern" non-bretted phenolic version more, to be honest).

The first time I saw it was with the WLP670. I was like wait, where did the Saison-y pepper and spice go? Then it was just like white wine notes and lovely. C2C is fantastic for that as well.

I too really like the "clean" Saisons a lot. I don't know which I prefer but when I pop a bottle of mine carbonated to the correct levels and somewhere in the 4.2-5% range, it can be one of the most refreshing drinks. I just wish more commercial breweries brewed them in that range instead of going 7+%. At first I used to blame that on most not knowing that it was a Diastatic yeast so they would just do normal starting gravities. But even now with the knowledge out there, I still see "Super Saisons" a lot when I travel.

 

[Gus_13]

Brilliant, thanks. My next brew after the one today will be 30% spelt flour, 70% pilsner, 25 IBUs, OG about 1.04, open fermented the first 3 days with one pack of Rustic at room temperature, starting at about 23-25C, from ther on no temperature regulation. That should do it.

That sounds like a perfect plan. I love that OG of 1.040. MOST of mine don't go over 1.042ish. For some reason when I do my Rye Saison I give it a little more gas to 1.046 but rarely do I shoot for over 1.050 for mine.

 

[Miraculix]

That sounds like a perfect plan. I love that OG of 1.040. MOST of mine don't go over 1.042ish. For some reason when I do my Rye Saison I give it a little more gas to 1.046 but rarely do I shoot for over 1.050 for mine.

I am a big fan of crushable but flavourful beers. I have no idea why there are so many higher abv saisons out there but my guess is that they do not have too much to do with it's origin anymore, which should be somewhere between 2% and 5%, depending on the time of the year and the person it was brewed for.

That's one of the reasons I really like british bitters so much for, they mainly also play in this abv range as well.

 

[Gus_13]

I am a big fan of crushable but flavourful beers. I have no idea why there are so many higher abv saisons out there but my guess is that they do not have too much to do with it's origin anymore, which should be somewhere between 2% and 5%, depending on the time of the year and the person it was brewed for.

That's one of the reasons I really like british bitters so much, they mainly also play in this abv range as well.

I'm known as the Saison and Bitter guy lol. For the same reasons. I like flavor, but I also like quaffable beer I can have a couple pints of or pop a 750 and easily drink it. If you are on FB, we have a great Saison, BdG and Farmhouse group I'm a mod of. Lots of great homebrewers and pros talk on there. A lot of us came from Milk the Funk because we were brewing more Saison than specifically sour beer. I also mod an English beer group called British Ale Appreciation Society that hasn't taken off but still a good bit of info and sharing on there.

 

[Protos]

I have no idea why there are so many higher abv saisons out there

Probably, because of the higher attenuation. I have brewed different versions of Saisons: from 3% ABV to 8%. I liked my light Saisons flavourwise, but they felt too watery because of the very high attenuation, so after many trial brews I settled my "House Saison" at 6% ABV with 25% Rye. I just don't like thin beers irrespective of alcohol content, so maybe many others too prefer some more gravity in Saisons. It's not about alcohol, rather about mouthfeel.

 

[Gus_13]

Probably, because of the higher attenuation. I have brewed different versions of Saisons: from 3% ABV to 8%. I liked my light Saisons flavourwise, but they felt too watery because of the very high attenuation, so after many trial brews I settled my "House Saison" at 6% ABV with 25% Rye. I just don't like thin beers irrespective of alcohol content, so maybe many others too prefer some more gravity in Saisons. It's not about alcohol, rather about mouthfeel.

I think that could be it too. But I fight that with higher carbonation for perceived body if I don't use wheat, rye, spelt or oats. Even my kegged Saisons are served around 3.5 vols. Built my keezer to handle that setup lol. 15 ft lines are no joke. And I run flow control rototaps on that and my dedicated Hefe taps.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm known as the Saison and Bitter guy lol. For the same reasons. I like flavor, but I also like quaffable beer I can have a couple pints of or pop a 750 and easily drink it. If you are on FB, we have a great Saison, BdG and Farmhouse group I'm a mod of. Lots of great homebrewers and pros talk on there. A lot of us came from Milk the Funk because we were brewing more Saison than specifically sour beer. I also mod an English beer group called British Ale Appreciation Society that hasn't taken off but still a good bit of info and sharing on there.

Great! I just requested entry to the UK group. Can you wrtie me the saison group name as well please?

 

[Miraculix]

Probably, because of the higher attenuation. I have brewed different versions of Saisons: from 3% ABV to 8%. I liked my light Saisons flavourwise, but they felt too watery because of the very high attenuation, so after many trial brews I settled my "House Saison" at 6% ABV with 25% Rye. I just don't like thin beers irrespective of alcohol content, so maybe many others too prefer some more gravity in Saisons. It's not about alcohol, rather about mouthfeel.

Maybe also false expectations play a role. When I think of a saison, I expect it to be kind of "thin" or light in taste, except for the yeast expression of course. But body-wise there should not be much imo. And then, as it has been already said, higher end of carbonation fits perfectly for beers like these. Together with great head retention, this makes this thin bodied beer work for me.

My bitters are on the lower side of carbonation and I do not like them with more carbonation than neccessary. For Saisons on the other hand, it is probably the other way around for me. And afaik, this is also how they are traditionally made.

 

[Gus_13]

Great! I just requested entry to the UK group. Can you wrtie me the saison group name as well please?

See if this will work. Never tried it like this haha.

Saison, Bière de Garde, & Farmhouse Ale Appreciation Society

 

[Miraculix]

See if this will work. Never tried it like this haha.

Saison, Bière de Garde, & Farmhouse Ale Appreciation Society

Works! Cheers!

 

[Gus_13]

Works! Cheers!

nice! Welcome in! The British group definitely needs some work. But I'll be posting more in there soon myself. Mike from Zebulon posts a lot in there as he brews his historical beers.

 

[shoreman]

I’m in the 3-5% zone for my saisons as well - I always add rye and/or wheat to my saisons and that seems to help the body out. I try not to add extra sugar at these ranges. I like dry beers though.

 

[BulletsNBeers]

Hello everyone, I’m looking for any info on saisons. I have not tasted or brewed one before but they look good from online description, but words don’t have flavor. Any pros, cons, or tips are appreciated. I am an intermediate all grain brew.

Saison yeast is gonna munch through everything. Mine usually end up at 1.002 to 1.000. So you don’t need as much grain and since you have less grain your mash efficiency is going to go up. Make them in the summer w/ no temp control. One of the easiest styles to make! Cheers

 

[GoodTruble]

Saison is usually a simple recipe, with the yeast providing the flavor. If you have the patience, I've always gotten good results with Wyeast 3724. Yes, it stalls, but it eventually finishes to consistently good results. I've also gotten good results with Omega Saisonstein, but it can be more temperamental.

 

[TheKveiking]

I recently brewed a batch with Lallemand Farmhouse. I think I am pretty happy with it. It seems to have more character than Belle. I have bottles of the same recipe made with WLP565. I like the WLP565 version a bit better. The Farmhouse batch seems a bit sweet/heavy for a Saison (which I can probably address by adding some sugar to my recipe), and I want to try pushing Farmhouse a little warmer to see if that pushes some more character. I pitched at 68F and let it free rise to 76F over the first few days. I might also try Farmhouse in a 4%-ish Saison.

@TheKveiking: I have been brewing several batches of Saison over the past couple years. For a simple beer, there is a good amount of flexibility. I generally aim for around a 1.055 OG. I have been using German Pils for the majority of the grain bill. I like the "farmhouse" idea so I have been including around 15% of a grain like Rye or Spelt (I am not sure if Spelt is any different than wheat).

I find that around 5% to 10% of a character malt like Aromatic or Munich gives a touch of color and flavor. I am not sure how Dupont gets the color and grain character in their beer since it is supposed to be 100% Pils.

Some people like to add sugar to a Saison. I normally don't because I find that most Saison yeasts produce a crisp beer and I really don't want to push my Saisons into the 8% range. They already tend to creep up in ABV given the typical Saison yeast attenuation.

I have been using Hersbrucker for many of my Belgians. I liked the character of Hersbrucker so I picked up a 1 lb bag. The bag I got was 2.2% aa, so instead of throwing 3 oz to get some IBUs I have been using Northern Brewer as a bittering hop. I have made and had some nice Saisons with hops like Citra and Lemon Drop.

Nice I was planning on try to do a peppery saison this spring, as I can easy heat my fermenter storage to high temps. This seemed like a very drinkable style and some thing different from all the pale ales up here in the northwest US. Sorry for the late reply military takes away some time, as well as the vague in my area I have not found a commercial or home brew example of the style.