The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread
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hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
I keep up on the laws as much as possible. Bad calls are bad calls, I know that refs miss calls, but to me there was no excuse to give Nani a red, either he should have consulted the side judge who probably had a better view or erred to the side of caution.
Anyway since we haven't had a new point in a long time, I'll end my post on this point. Twitter reactions to the Nani red from a variety of famous folk
LINK
Not all are about the call, but some are amusing. I love the Michael Jackson one.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
I don't know if he did that on purpose, but he's lucky he didn't get a red. It wasn't a smart play.
lgilmore
Well-Known Member
The thing is the call on nani was well within the scope of the law to be considered serious foul play. Usually you'll draw an automatic red card for studs to a thigh. A couple feet higher can easily be considered a red, plus he was late and actually never touched the ball.
As I said earlier on in this post, I didn't watch the game or care that much. I cheer for my local side in Seattle, have a history back into their first go round in NASL.
The laws of the game are basically parameters that allow a ref to use their judgement about what they see and how they call it something or let it go. Sometimes it's hard for Americans to understand that the laws of the game were never meant to be percise. The law book isn't thick and was never meant to be.
That is where law 18 comes in. If anybody's bothered to look there are only 17 laws of the game. Law 18 is the most important law to be used in every match. What actually is Law 18? Apply common sense. That is why it is the most important.
cheers.
As I said earlier on in this post, I didn't watch the game or care that much. I cheer for my local side in Seattle, have a history back into their first go round in NASL.
The laws of the game are basically parameters that allow a ref to use their judgement about what they see and how they call it something or let it go. Sometimes it's hard for Americans to understand that the laws of the game were never meant to be percise. The law book isn't thick and was never meant to be.
That is where law 18 comes in. If anybody's bothered to look there are only 17 laws of the game. Law 18 is the most important law to be used in every match. What actually is Law 18? Apply common sense. That is why it is the most important.
cheers.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
If Nani had made contact with the ball, there should have been no foul. As far as your comparison of studs at the thigh, usually that's called because it's an intentional tackle. Putting your leg up to trap a ball is different. You have to recognize context, that's part of rule 18 as you've been harping on it.
Since you didn't answer, do you think Diego Lopez should have been sent off for punching Vidic in the face?
Since you didn't answer, do you think Diego Lopez should have been sent off for punching Vidic in the face?
lgilmore
Well-Known Member
if nani was first to the ball his studs would have been infront of the other player. He was late that's why he tagged the guy and that's why the CR red carded him, late, sloppy, not to the skill level on he field. Yes, refs do punish play they consider below the standard on the field. It keeps the games from degrading into a foul fest. The biggest reason nani sat is because he was late so what became an attempted trap became in an instant, a poor challenge. Thats how it happens
Intent only applies to hand ball decisions any more. Studs up, you are 95% sure to sit.
I'll try and look at the other one you mention. haven't yet.
Intent only applies to hand ball decisions any more. Studs up, you are 95% sure to sit.
I'll try and look at the other one you mention. haven't yet.
lgilmore
Well-Known Member
Ok watched the playback of the other situation. Here's my take, I don't think he saw it. The CR is going to be on the left side of the pitch outside the PA. He's tracking the ball into the crowd, the ball is played towards goal, the CR is going to be watching where the ball goes because it is so close to goal. The contact happened for sure and could easily be cardable, but it basically comes a split second after the ball is headed towards goal. It got missed because of the ball's proximitty to goal.
Lots goes on in the goal mouth, used to pop forwards in the head with one hand while parrying the ball away with the other, my timing was much better than that gk. The cr's eyes naturally track with the ball, especially in the PA. Never once got called for it. One of the hardest things to learn as a CR is to stay with the players after the ball is played.
So you're right about the keeper, he just didn't get caught.
Kinda looking back at your comments about nani being a yellow vs. a red, reckless play vs. serious foul play. The thing is with that situation, a yellow or red could easily have been given.
Lots goes on in the goal mouth, used to pop forwards in the head with one hand while parrying the ball away with the other, my timing was much better than that gk. The cr's eyes naturally track with the ball, especially in the PA. Never once got called for it. One of the hardest things to learn as a CR is to stay with the players after the ball is played.
So you're right about the keeper, he just didn't get caught.
Kinda looking back at your comments about nani being a yellow vs. a red, reckless play vs. serious foul play. The thing is with that situation, a yellow or red could easily have been given.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
Or there's a double standard with goalies. I know that largely because I used to get away with it. I used to get away with elbowing people coming down with the ball. Clearing people out with my body, etc.
As far as missing the call, it's not really excusable. Tracking the ball and in your trail vision shows the goalie punch not hitting the ball but someone else. It's poor reffing.
As far as missing the call, it's not really excusable. Tracking the ball and in your trail vision shows the goalie punch not hitting the ball but someone else. It's poor reffing.
lgilmore
Well-Known Member
Didn't say it was good reffing, just figuring why there was no call.
Listening to Bien sport talking about the nani call tonight. Said he called it to the letter of the law, would have accepted a yellow, but all see where and why he chose a red. A english talking head put it as UEFA had taken away law 18 for this CR as they want the game called to the letter of the law. If the guy wants to ref more of these matches, he's kinda cornered into strict laws of the game. In fact, nobody questioned his call as against the laws of the game, they just wish he hadn't called it so tight.
Listening to Bien sport talking about the nani call tonight. Said he called it to the letter of the law, would have accepted a yellow, but all see where and why he chose a red. A english talking head put it as UEFA had taken away law 18 for this CR as they want the game called to the letter of the law. If the guy wants to ref more of these matches, he's kinda cornered into strict laws of the game. In fact, nobody questioned his call as against the laws of the game, they just wish he hadn't called it so tight.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
Has there ever been a team as good as Barcelona the last 3 or 4 years?
Grannyknot
Well-Known Member
That goal was fantastic.
They are coming close to a decade of dominance since that 05-06 team that won everything.
Closest I can think of is late 90s United, or (showing a little age) late 70s Forest.
But no, nothing actually comes close to this.
They are coming close to a decade of dominance since that 05-06 team that won everything.
Closest I can think of is late 90s United, or (showing a little age) late 70s Forest.
But no, nothing actually comes close to this.
BrewKnurd
Well-Known Member
Barcelona is a love/hate thing for me. I get tired of any team being as dominant as they have been for long stretches. On the other hand, they are just such a joy to watch.
aygov
Well-Known Member
I agree with the love/hate thing which is why I was sort of rooting for Milan to knock them out, but my lord do they play some beautiful football. Deft little passes and flicks that don't look hard but undo the entire opposing team's defense.
On an unrelated note I was at the JW Marriot in downtown Chicago this morning for a Verizon Blackberry forum and the next meeting room over was occupied by the CONCACAF Gold Cup meeting. Perhaps they were talking about the final being in Chicago this year? Who knows, but I did see Jim Brown who used to be FIFA's Executive Director of Competitions. No, I didn't recognize him. He was holding a folder with his name on it and I Googled it.
On an unrelated note I was at the JW Marriot in downtown Chicago this morning for a Verizon Blackberry forum and the next meeting room over was occupied by the CONCACAF Gold Cup meeting. Perhaps they were talking about the final being in Chicago this year? Who knows, but I did see Jim Brown who used to be FIFA's Executive Director of Competitions. No, I didn't recognize him. He was holding a folder with his name on it and I Googled it.
BrewKnurd
Well-Known Member
I was rooting for Milan as well, and I think Milan could have pulled it off if not for hitting the post in the last few minutes of the first half.....
All that said, Milan was so obviously and thoroughly outplayed that it would have been hard to argue they deserved to win the tie if they had managed to pull it off.
mrgstiffler
Well-Known Member
How about that DC United save???
mrgstiffler
Well-Known Member
I'm ready!
HoppyDaze
Well-Known Member
Timbers tie game at 90 minute mark. Eff you Sounders
mrgstiffler
Well-Known Member
Was a great game. Both teams played hard and put on a good show.
mrgstiffler
Well-Known Member
mrgstiffler
Well-Known Member
We can definitely agree that the Whitecaps need to be taken down, though.
Agreed
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Reno_eNVy
Well-Known Member
It's just too bad you guys got the good rivalry match this weekend. LA could be playing San Jose, but noooooooooooooo. We have to stomp on our Mexican red-headed step child again and pretend it's a rivalry because those damn goats won't get off our lawn.
EDIT: Also, the Montreal vs Toronto match was a really entertaining one. And the Impact are looking like they're going to be playoff contenders this year.
Did anybody watch RSL vs Colorado? That, too, was quite a show. I knew this was going to be a crazy one when Rapids keeper Matt Pickens broke his right forearm in the 2nd or 3rd minute. Poor dude just looked more pissed than in pain.
EDIT: Also, the Montreal vs Toronto match was a really entertaining one. And the Impact are looking like they're going to be playoff contenders this year.
Did anybody watch RSL vs Colorado? That, too, was quite a show. I knew this was going to be a crazy one when Rapids keeper Matt Pickens broke his right forearm in the 2nd or 3rd minute. Poor dude just looked more pissed than in pain.
lgilmore
Well-Known Member
Seattle lacked a first touch on the ball last night. Haven't seen so many passes bang off players since the early days of the MLS. It looked like Seattle was tighter than Portland and the game wasn't that pretty based on how the ball was handled or mishandled. Portland was the better team for a majority of the night. Caught our CB "watching" as he's been known to do since he got here. 89 minutes of good play by him with 1 minute standing still and watching his man make a play. It's sort of a given with him, but the other CB is still in a cast.
Watched our new DP put a beautiful ball across the goal mouth last night that johnson just needed to redirect. Poor time to not try Eddie. Couldn't believe the new DP's face after that.. it was like "really?, I play a perfect ball for you and you can't be troubled to try? Really?" Yes, EJ is our goal scorer, but everything is meant to go through him at the finish... he should be our scoring leader. Missing a game winner last night cause you didn't commit to the pass.... well crap.
Watched our new DP put a beautiful ball across the goal mouth last night that johnson just needed to redirect. Poor time to not try Eddie. Couldn't believe the new DP's face after that.. it was like "really?, I play a perfect ball for you and you can't be troubled to try? Really?" Yes, EJ is our goal scorer, but everything is meant to go through him at the finish... he should be our scoring leader. Missing a game winner last night cause you didn't commit to the pass.... well crap.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
So I was wondering, considering that countries like England and Mexico have national stadiums, do you think it may be time for the US to consider a national stadium? There's a handful of options, it wouldn't have to be a permanent location, but a preferred venue if you would. Or maybe have 2 of them one for east coast one for west coast.
Grannyknot
Well-Known Member
I kind of like it the way it is. At least it gives the fans a chance to occasionally see the USMNT play close to their home.
Wembly & the Azteca also hold 100k people. We don't have that.
Wembly & the Azteca also hold 100k people. We don't have that.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
Michigan Stadium 100K
Beaver Stadium 100K
Neyland Stadium 100K
Ohio Stadium 100K
Bryant-Denny 100K
Texas Memorial 100K
LA Memorial Colloseum 90K
Rose Bowl 90K
Sanford Stadium 90K
Tiger Stadium 90K
Cotton Bowl 90K
Jordan-Hare 80K
Kyle Field 80K
Metlife Stadium 80K
Bobby Bowden 80K
Gaylord Family 80K
Silverdome 80K
Fedex Field 80K
I could see doing a rotation thing as well. Maybe pick a handful of venues
Metlife, Cotton Bowl, Rose Bowl, and Husky Stadium, Covers several big markets. Could change them of course, but that should give large venues.
BTW all of the ones I listed above are bigger than Stade de France. I could do with holding small matches around the nation but it would be nice to kind of have a national identity at certain stadiums.
dwarven_stout
Well-Known Member
True for Portland as well. They have the excuse of looking over their shoulder for Alonso though. Maybe Seattle was looking over their shoulder and seeing their supporters?
Schlimly
Well-Known Member
Haven't had a chance to go back and watch all of the MLS games yet, and due to location the RSL/Rapids was what was on the tube.
All that aside a decent start to the season. Hoping that there's a good "race" for the top seeds this year. Get some good rivalries back in full swing maybe start a couple new ones.
All that aside a decent start to the season. Hoping that there's a good "race" for the top seeds this year. Get some good rivalries back in full swing maybe start a couple new ones.
Grannyknot
Well-Known Member
Yes, those are all large stadiums, but I'm talking soccer specific stadiums.
Soccer in an MLS stadium is worlds better than the setups we had for WC94. Our lack of large soccer specific stadiums has been widely discussed as one of the main reasons we didn't get the 2022WC...although most believe the votes for Qatar were bought.
I can't speak for the other football stadiums, but a WC soccer field will not fit in Neyland Stadium, unless the opposing teams stand behind the goals.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
Most Football fields can support soccer as well. I've seen 3 or 4 games at football stadiums and they work great. Lincoln Financial and Metlife both. NFL stadiums have such gigantic sidelines (some college stadiums may not have the same luxury)
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Reno_eNVy
Well-Known Member
It's true that American football fields can work for soccer... but I don't want to settle for that.
My solution (though it will NEVER happen) would be to have four national stadia, one in each region... time zones would be a good division. My criteria for where they would be built would go as such, in descending order of importance:
- Areas with a large population of soccer support
- Areas that don't have a MLS club yet
- Centrally located to areas of dense population
- If above is not possible, adjacent or in the middle of areas of dense population
- Areas with a secondary appeal (i.e. what else can traveling fans do while they're there)
Options for Eastern Region:
New York, NY - duh. Plus that could be the home of NY2
Richmond, VA - Just got a NASL club, right smack in the middle of the east coast
Miami, FL - Consistently the city with the second highest USMNT TV ratings, just behind NY. Also the stadium could be the home of a MLS club that is so needed in the south
Options for Central Region:
Houston, TX - Big soccer community, big population
St. Louis, MO - Another big soccer community, has been in need of a club since theirs folded. Right in the middle of four large cities
Options for Mountain Region:
(okay, this is where it gets tough, since everything is so spread out)
Albuquerque, NM - Decent sized population, surprising good soccer culture. Easy to get to from Arizona, Texas, and Colorado
Denver, CO - Pretty centrally located in the Mountain time zone
Options for Pacific Region:
Las Vegas, NV - Acceptably close to a lot of big cities, especially the LA region. Then there is the draw for traveling fans to do touristy things. (fun fact: my spell check seems to be okay with the word "touristy")
LA County, CA - duh. Plus, the Galaxy can move there and let Chivas have HDC.
Bay Area, CA - Potential to draw travelers in from Vegas, Reno, LA, SD, Portland, and even as far as Seattle, Phoenix, etc.
Portland, OR - duh
Man I have a lot of time on my hands today
My solution (though it will NEVER happen) would be to have four national stadia, one in each region... time zones would be a good division. My criteria for where they would be built would go as such, in descending order of importance:
- Areas with a large population of soccer support
- Areas that don't have a MLS club yet
- Centrally located to areas of dense population
- If above is not possible, adjacent or in the middle of areas of dense population
- Areas with a secondary appeal (i.e. what else can traveling fans do while they're there)
Options for Eastern Region:
New York, NY - duh. Plus that could be the home of NY2
Richmond, VA - Just got a NASL club, right smack in the middle of the east coast
Miami, FL - Consistently the city with the second highest USMNT TV ratings, just behind NY. Also the stadium could be the home of a MLS club that is so needed in the south
Options for Central Region:
Houston, TX - Big soccer community, big population
St. Louis, MO - Another big soccer community, has been in need of a club since theirs folded. Right in the middle of four large cities
Options for Mountain Region:
(okay, this is where it gets tough, since everything is so spread out)
Albuquerque, NM - Decent sized population, surprising good soccer culture. Easy to get to from Arizona, Texas, and Colorado
Denver, CO - Pretty centrally located in the Mountain time zone
Options for Pacific Region:
Las Vegas, NV - Acceptably close to a lot of big cities, especially the LA region. Then there is the draw for traveling fans to do touristy things. (fun fact: my spell check seems to be okay with the word "touristy")
LA County, CA - duh. Plus, the Galaxy can move there and let Chivas have HDC.
Bay Area, CA - Potential to draw travelers in from Vegas, Reno, LA, SD, Portland, and even as far as Seattle, Phoenix, etc.
Portland, OR - duh
Man I have a lot of time on my hands today
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
I would love that idea. But I would tweak it, for starters
I would go with the 5 tradional regions, Northeast, South East, Southwest, Midwest and Pacific.
Northeast I'd go with NYM somewhere in North Jersey or Central Jersey. But also could understand DC Metro, as it's near the capital.
Southeast, could be DC Metro as well in the Virginia area. Could maybe go to the Carolinas, but I think Miami is a good place as well.
Midwest, has to be St. Louis, Chicago, or Michigan. I would think St. Louis would be good.
Southwest - Texas is the ideal choice, Could maybe do Arizona as well.
West - All over Cali, Wash, or Portland would do well
I would go with the 5 tradional regions, Northeast, South East, Southwest, Midwest and Pacific.
Northeast I'd go with NYM somewhere in North Jersey or Central Jersey. But also could understand DC Metro, as it's near the capital.
Southeast, could be DC Metro as well in the Virginia area. Could maybe go to the Carolinas, but I think Miami is a good place as well.
Midwest, has to be St. Louis, Chicago, or Michigan. I would think St. Louis would be good.
Southwest - Texas is the ideal choice, Could maybe do Arizona as well.
West - All over Cali, Wash, or Portland would do well
