Help me refine my rye saison recipe

[tconnolly1120]

Hi everybody. I've been home brewing for about 4 years now, mostly focusing on IPAs, Pale Ales and Brown Ales. This will be my first attempt at a belgian-style ale, specifically a saison, which I know can be tough to deal with. This beer is going to showcase Nelson hops since I believe they will be a great addition to the inherently spicy and dry characteristics of a Saison and the rye malts. Any suggestions would be of great help! I plan on brewing this within the next two weeks.

I've made some edits with some help from other brewers on Beeradvocate. This is the revised format with two questions at the bottom.

Title Format:
[Nameless] - [Belgian Saison] - [Partial Mash (8.5 oz total: 4 oz DME; 4.5 oz grains)]

Message Format:
[Beer Name] Nameless
[Beer Style] Belgian Saison
[Brew Type] Partial Mash
[Batch Size] 5 US gallons

[Efficiency Target]
Not sure since I have yet to find space to do all grain brewing in my house

[Grain Bill]
4 lbs (64 oz) Pilsen DME 44.44%
1.6 lbs (32 oz) Pilsner Malt (Belgium) 17.78%
2.0 lbs (32 oz) Rye US) 22.22%
0.5 lbs (8 oz) Wheat (US) 5.56%
0.4 lbs (6.4 oz) Munich Dark 20L (US) 4.44%
0.5 lbs (8 oz) Turbinado Sugar @ 25 min addition 5.56%

1.063 OG 1.012 FG 6.7% ABV

[Hop Bill]
0.50 oz Northern Brewer (DE) [8.5 %] - Boil 45.0 min Pellet 12 IBUs
0.50 oz Northern Brewer (DE) [8.5 %] - Boil 10.0 min Pellet 5 IBUs
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin (NZ) [12.5 %] - Boil 10.0 min Pellet 7 IBUs
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin (NZ) [12.5 %] - Boil 5.0 min Pellet 4 IBUs
1.0 oz Nelson Sauvin (NZ) [12.5 %] - Dry Hop 7 days

[Yeast]
White Labs Belgian Saison II WLP566 Yeast (2 packs?)

[Water]
Just started looking at my City's water report to get an idea of what it contains, but still not entirely sure how to manipulate it to enhance my brews. Here is a link of a report from 2013 (Can't find one from last year yet). If anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to share. http://www.longbeachny.gov/vertical...6D2A}/uploads/Water_Report_2013_from_2012.pdf

[Process]
Mash at 146-149 for an hour with a water ratio of ~1.11 quarts/pound of grain (5 quarts/4.5 lbs grain). Try to get as much sparge water through your system as you can.

Ferment at 63-65 F and let the yeast raise the temperature of the beer upwards of 77-79 F.

[Notes]

A few things to consider that I could use some insight to.

(1) I just recently started partial mash brewing (within the last 2 years) and up until now, I have always used a mash size of 5 quarts (5.2 L) and a sparge size of 5 quarts (5.2 L) with a boil in the brew pot of 0.5 gallons (1.6 L). After adding the first and second wort, there is roughly 3.17 gallons of wort in the brewpot. I have recently acquired an 8 gallon brewpot, and was considering raising the boil size (while remaining at roughly a 5 gallon batch). I usually just boiled for 60 mins for IPAs, cooled down the wort in an ice bath (still in the pot; covered) until I added it to the carboy ontop of 2 gallons of cold water. Afterwards, I added 1 more gallon of cold water on top to drop the temperature. I usually yield about 4.5 gallons of beer (due to evaporation). Since I have a larger brew pot now, should I boil at a larger size and not add the cold water to the carboy? I have not noticed any watering-down of my beer with this process, but I was wondering if it would help to have a boil size of say 6 gallons that reduced to roughly 5 gallons with a 20% evaporation rate per hour. If I raise my boil size to 6 gallons, should I raise the mash size or just the initial boil size before the two additions of wort?

(2) I used Beer Calculus to create this recipe seeing as it is my first Saison. The calculator recommended I use 2 packs of liquid yeast for this beer. I usually do dry yeast (1 packet) but I cannot seem to find dry saison yeast in the area. Would 2 packs be too much or just right? Also, I've heard from other brewers that saisons benefit from the addition of another packet of yeast at around 75% fermentation. Should I bother with this for my first time?

 

[ricshayne]

Don't worry about water additions

Use only one pack of yeast but make a starter, don' worry about fermentation temperature too much, Saisons are great as they can be fermented warm and still come out really nice (I know some people that let them ferment in the garage during the summer @85F+)

Don't add the turbinado during the boil. Wait until a few days after high Krausen has subsided (about 7 - 10 days into fermentation) and then make a simple syrup with the sugar and add it to the bucket to kickstart the yeast back up.

and most importantly, RDWHAHB!

 

[ricshayne]

also, you'll probably get more help if you post this in Recipes/Ingredients

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Consider that your fg will probably be much lower with a said on yeast and thus bump your abv. I use 565 and it settles in around 1.006-1.008. It is perfect. Dry but a little body.

 

[chickypad]

If you're going to move up to a full boil be sure to consider what you're going to do about chilling - get a chiller, no chill method, etc. Can't read your water report. You might want to at least treat it for chlorine/chloramine with some campden.

I think the recipe looks good, as long as those are malted rye and wheat so your mash will convert. You could consider bumping up the sugar percentage if you wish. The Belgian strains I use don't tend to have any problems finishing so anything under about 1.080 I usually just throw the sugar in at flameout.

Regarding the yeast, the saison strain that folks seem to have trouble with is WL565/WY3724. Both white labs and wyeast sites describe how it tends to start vigorous and then get stuck, which is where they mention possibly adding another strain to finish up. I use 3711 in my saisons and it's a beast that needs no help, but looks like the strain you have should be okay by the description at least. I would suggest pitching on the lower end then letting it rise, keep it warm at the end to finish. For example my schedule for most Belgians is pitch around 64 and let it rise up to about 74 over a few days and hold it there. I agree a starter is the way to go with liquid.

 

[tconnolly1120]

If you're going to move up to a full boil be sure to consider what you're going to do about chilling - get a chiller, no chill method, etc. Can't read your water report. You might want to at least treat it for chlorine/chloramine with some campden.

I think the recipe looks good, as long as those are malted rye and wheat so your mash will convert. You could consider bumping up the sugar percentage if you wish. The Belgian strains I use don't tend to have any problems finishing so anything under about 1.080 I usually just throw the sugar in at flameout.

Regarding the yeast, the saison strain that folks seem to have trouble with is WL565/WY3724. Both white labs and wyeast sites describe how it tends to start vigorous and then get stuck, which is where they mention possibly adding another strain to finish up. I use 3711 in my saisons and it's a beast that needs no help, but looks like the strain you have should be okay by the description at least. I would suggest pitching on the lower end then letting it rise, keep it warm at the end to finish. For example my schedule for most Belgians is pitch around 64 and let it rise up to about 74 over a few days and hold it there. I agree a starter is the way to go with liquid.

Thanks for the tip on full boil. That was exactly what I was looking for in terms of advice. I don't have a wort chiller (yet), but plan on getting one soon. So for this batch, I'll stick to the way I've been doing it.

As for the yeast, my LHBS only had 3274 so I am going with that strain for this batch. It raised my perspective OG to 1.014 and lowered my ABV to 6.4% (which isn't a bad thing for a beer I plan on drinking outside in the summer). If it gets stuck, I've heard I can add a little sugar to the carboy to help kickstart the yeast. Is this correct? If not, I'll think about adding another strain to finish the fermentation up.

I plan on pitching it at around 63 and letting it rise up to 78-80 in my basement.

Thanks again, Cheers!

 

[chickypad]

I don't know that you want to add more sugar, but as mentioned above you could save the sugar from your recipe and add it to the fermenter part way through fermentation to help encourage it to finish. I think temp control is probably the key, don't let it start cooling off before it's finished. I don't tend to do long primaries but in this case I think I would give that yeast some time.