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I know, right? People think that starches ONLY become sugars within a 60min window at certain temps regardless of time;/ And never have to post mobile to boot.


I overshot my efficiency after topping off. I assume a sweet SNBC hop bullet on my birthday, and a DoublaBastard/Deviil Dancer if it lasts a week. Added priming dark Belgian sugar with another SNBC propagate +/ Same yeast to kept good color. Hissing away again since. Judging by settled wort a little too light of a purple. Little Dirty's gravity right as expected. I'll probably throw columbus in the the former's. Maybe magnum or similar. In the latter or both.

Did I say I'd tried those clones? I thought I'd said that I was disappointed with the lack of experimentation with red's lengthy malt bill; ive gotta stock the fridge with the fine Schlafly's cheap export IPA, more HBullet, hopefully the other new SNBC year-round anyways. Head over the river and distill gin. Hopefully dont accidentally add msg! and cheaper /more enjoyable wine. Whisky, has anyone filled up mini 5L barrels with bottled whisky shortly for quick BBA Barrel flavor? I'd guess not, given I posted this in the beginner's forum.


Whomever this applies to, you can figure out the metaphors. I will be clear about one- Given the percentage of replies, and the inability to say "sorry, cannot help you, I have never brewed anything like this whatsoever", I should have emailed Founders about Reds myself years ago,which was always, when I found out about Red's cost, was when I'd get back into ibreeing and not just helping, Buying bulk of those grains and using them /and adjusting recipes to recreate my other favorites. Surely it wouldve been more helpful than the time wasted on this posy. Thank God the brother in law will by home and able to pick up the perfected recipe soon! As well as Hopslam's first /freshest kegging.
 
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Cool, sounds like you got everything figured out, at least in your mind. Glad it's going well.
 
That was the purpose of this brew day, but I had no idea it would be so systematically hilarious seeing replies. Though my deliberately stating I was going to brew this/way I'd hope suggested so to everyone, it doesn't have seemed to. So, I feel the need to say that the majority of replies would have mildly offended me, had I cared. Based on my forum, that is a good way to drive away new members, posting as such in the beginner's (!) forum. Yooper replied perfectly, at least, and confirmed what I suspected was the most possible outcome.

Thanks for the well-wishes PADave. Gonna start a much simpler dry HHRed, ie the simple clones of Red's online, lest Founders reply with a little more detail (which will be shared if granted permission) and probably Bigfoot and Arrogant Bastard next week. Obviously updating this thread when racked into the keg. I don't expect to have reason to otherwise.
 
At near 6 days, very dry on par with the Surly Wet I'm drinking now with similar flavor, granted I was drinking a Doom prior. I should probably have taken a hydrometer reading.. Sticky in a resiny way. Will tomorrow, after one last open crashing into another bucket to get a big final krausen and oxygenation before kegging Sunday. Very happy with the aggression of SN's yeast and its dominance in aroma and flavor complimenting the FFlight aroma/flavor. DME was apparently unnecessary, as I've tested a few Celebration and Harvest dregs since: sanitized opening and careful decanting will turn however much you leave in the bottle into a cloudy clone in the fridge within 24hrs. Should finish at ~13% by estimation, if it lasts long enough to finish up by keg conditioning. Little Dirty finished primary and tastes just as I hoped. Will be crashing that one before kegging if necessary.
 
You got to give us some numbers. What was your actual OG? Oxygenation before kegging, that's a new one.
 
I accidentally posted the OG in a previous reply, 1.113. Still thick constant krausening so no airlock besides heavy agitation and to taste the tangy krausen, compared to friends' strongs. Very much like a ryewine, FFlight kind of Arrogant (my personal favorite commercial first wort hopped beer), more aggressive Devil Dancer.

My gut says near estimated final gravity, but it could be the high acidity (a la Devil Dancer) from the hops. I'll take a hydrometer reading tonight, I hope. If I have the time.

Two posts I forgot to address-
I shrugged off a century's worth of advice I didn't ask for.. I was asking if anyone had experimented with similar bills or mash temps/duration.


Oxygenating before kegging is new? What gas do you purge the air in your fermenter with, and were you feeding your yeast to get them to ferment? I have to ask how you have engineered such yeasts, Congrats!
How long is Bigfoot in primary? With a follow up final question, how can such a young barleywine carry so much oxidation/aged strong flavors?

I thought there would be more DFH ('s philosophy) advocates.
 
OK, I'll bite.
1 No, I never experimented with similar mash bills or durations. Neither do I intend to start now.
2 Yes, oxygenating before kegging is new to me. I seek to purge oxygen from my keg.

I sincerely doubt you can or will even try to offer any independently verifiable sources to support your ideas. I begin to doubt you are brewing anything at all.
 
The oxygenation would be pouring it and (most of) its yeast (to see ifnot spent) into the keg for a big final rousing ... I'm not worried about the Amarillo/FFlight aroma fading. More so the acridity of ryewines oxidizing into more spice. It is going to last a couple weeks if near target FG, I can't drink punishment all day.


Shaking your carboy is to oxygenate it. More is less stress on the yeast, a much quicker fermentation with higher amounts with less stress on its cells. Bigfoot is openly fermented for 6 days in primary. Yeast learn and adjust to environment. Hence, why some brewers that do like a "proprietary" yeast flavor, stop using the harvested yeast after X number of cycles. Thereafter adding minimal harvested younger yeast to the parent strain. Learn a lot more by plain researching "open fermentation". How safe it is in almost all primary ferm (people doing " secondary" /finishing in the same vessel might not want to be open for a month). Of course,barring sanitation. the obvious, extreme care when working with strong yeasts like Brett. You probably w
IMG_20180106_005530

IMG_20180106_005530

Doubt
ant them to ferment in separate rooms.

Like " wild" yeasts, open fermentation is going to, as said: Be stronger, adapt to their environment, and "neutral," regarding aroma , will have a lot stronger yeast than the same beer brewed (mostly) closed; carboys and buckets are never purged of O2. Full cask/keg naturally conditioned , yes, benefit still- to keep the same beer- purged of O2, via a CO2 tank and regulator.

"Doubt you're brewing anything"
Honestly: seriously?
IMG_20180106_005530

IMG_20180106_005530

Doubt
 
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To answer your question:

Oxygen is important in solution at the beginning of fermentation to facilitate yeast reproduction. It is essential for the production of cell walls for new cells. After the growth/lag phase of fermentation it is most often avoided at all costs, to avoid premature aging of beer, assuming you had a healthy fermentation that finished as expected. I think this is where most brewers minds travel, no need to make it sound like the contrary should be painfully obvious. Granted, I respect the idea of trying to felicitate aged flavors quickly, if that is your intention. Although, you made it sound obvious to purge air form a keg with O2, that is most definitely a new one for me and many others I'm sure. I did read that great article, in I think BYO or Craft beer and brewing, with that Italian brewer who used techniques from sherry production to pre-oxidize his "barley wine". I thought it was pretty clever because he put a lot of thought and trials into perfecting what he wanted to make. However, it is hard to follow what you are even trying to tell us. Now, you're probably going to get a little bent out of shape and say something about me not being creative or locked in my ways, but that's not true. You're talking about open fermentation and then post a picture of a bucket with an airlock on it. Are you using an open fermenter or not? I love the idea of open fermentation in the right context. Where have you been told that Big Foot is open fermented for 6 days? I have been to Sierra Nevada many times and toured their facilitate at least a half dozen times when I lived there. Never saw or heard mention of open fermentation and they are very forthright and eager to share their techniques and brewing styles.

In the first post you said all feedback welcome yet you have repeatedly discounted and bashed on advice/feedback saying its not what you want. What do you want? An atta-boy? A participation trophy? So, here's some more advice you don't want but will help us all help you and maybe we can get something from your posts as well.

Be a little less combative and state your methods and reason for them clearly in the beginning, not as a response to another users post that makes sense. It's hard to understand why you are doing anything you're doing when you ramble about drinking Celebration or Bigfoot or using those useless headline news like words "spicy" and "resinous" about a hydro sample from a fermenting beer. You're not going to convince anyone but yourself that you taste those flavors. What you perceive doesn't matter to anyone if we can't follow your method. Its about learning for everyone not boasting about how great you think you are. So please, walk us through what your techniques are and what your end state is. Is it a barley wine like Big Foot that's ready to drink in less then 2 weeks? Is it a big double IPA like Hopslam? Is it a Piney winter time IPA like Celebration? Again, it has been really difficult to figure out what you are even trying to accomplish.
 
I very much appreciate the thought put into your post. Yes I should've clarified in my OP that I welcomed all feedback, but would be brewing as such.

The spiciness wasn't picked out by me, actually- but the best friend who has never tried a rye wine, or ~30% rye ale or roggenbier . Nor drinks as much rye whisky as I do. That, a rich bodied ryewine , was what I was shooting for. rich dry accenuation of rye via caramalts, hence the long, but low mash temps. Not a jacked up hop head red. As well as hoping for an Arrogant aggression of Amarillo/FFlight while it finishes in the keg. , to accentuate those hops while still tasting like a young, unoxidized ryewine. To be able to bottle devil dancer-ish clones in a few more weeks if needed.

There is a few year old video of Bigfoots short, open fermentation. From a microbiologists view, while the yeast will as said produce more esters, it is safe with a layer of Krausen. Fodders just speed things up, in general, but cylindrical vessels agitated are nearly the fastest. So, a bucket with airlock removed is a lot safer than an open , agitated bucket. Sadly it seems very few have experimented with open carboys.
 
Alright, I spoke too soon. It was pretty easy to find evidence of their open fermentation of Bigfoot, granted I found the same things from 2014 but have no reason to think they changed anything. I appreciate your response and clarifying your intent. From what I have read and understand, the benefit of an open fermentation is to relieve pressure on the fermenter, allowing the yeast to work faster and produce esters as a byproduct - this is a pretty big departure when you think about most large scale brewing being done with a spunding valve for ease and speed of packaging.

So, speaking from the mind of an engineer, anyone who has ever used a blow off tube is effectively open fermenting during active feremntation or, any way of maintaining a zero/near zero pressure differential - sometimes a simple airlock is adequate sometimes not. And, anyone who uses glass carboys better use a blow off tube during active fermentation of a high gravity beer or when fermenting with voracious yeast (hefeweizen, saison, chico, san diego super all come to mind from experience), or boom you got a bomb (also experience). I guess what I am saying is that without having to state any intent many if not all brewers have by nature open fermented their beers. In fact, because of the relatively small scale on which we brew, pressurized fermentation is the non-standard way of doing things. It look likes the not so sad thing is that many of us have utilized open fermentation without the label and pulling the airlock off is something most would have done so their bucket didn't blow up during active fermentation of such a high gravity beer.
 
Precisely, I was going to mention that was effectively a lower degree of open fermentation. I had the lid seated but not sealed, the airlock off until it was seemingly near finished. Adding pure O2 through say the removed airlock can effectively speed things up. As can pouring all of the "primary" vessel's contents into a keg for conditioning, towards the end of fermentation. Of course it can speed up the occurrence of older/oxidized flavors, too.


I couldn't get my CO2 Tank yet so they are still in primary. Sadly, as the modified kit (referred to as Little Dirty in previous posts is well ready. Its molasses and DME yeast starter was big as well, just not the over flowing starter for the hopeslam and SN propagation. Again which the Sierra Nevada flavors had and have almost entirely dominated, compared to the Little Dirty, starter, which I may prime with molasses+DME starter I've started for the next brew(s, I'll from this point out be adopting the traditional practice of brewing a light mild instead of sparging the 10gal grain bill any if at all. Save luck of great efficiency again, presumably anything heavy handed with sugar/honey/molasses. I mean, even if so, I'll try sparging 5-20L at least once. Get a better idea on my vat of a mash tun's efficiency vs the median of brewing programs. That will be really helpful better estimating with long mashes.

As for what I intend it to taste like, I would be happy with any of those- a piney imperial Celebration with any of Red's Rye's malt dry caramel depth. Even better if in a Bigfoot sense and crispness while the aged dark fruit. I wouldn't mind if I simply end up with a more simple flavor like Hopslam. Though, it was as of yesterday far more aromatic than Hopslam.palatener's Flight /Amarillo aroma up front and end with a rich tangy rye wine and breadier but distinct Sierra Nevada yeast flavor in between. Its gravity is now 1.017, I don't expect much more attenuation and was very pleasantly surprised as is.

It would be hard for you or anyone to get me very bent out of shape. My forum's strict about respectful posting, but I help with an "adjacent", strictly social (not scientific) forum . No, i wouldn't have called you not creative given the effort and time spent on those posts (again much appreciated). When people are posting nothing but insulting memes, not knowing anything about my palate besides that I enjoy several beers most didn't; no experience mashing at the length/time/malt bill, or even first wort hopping; can you blame me for entertaining myself by saying I expect it to taste like biting into thick arrogance?

It still is surprising to me that my typing faster than the mobile's processor. ie riddled with typos and late autocorrection from your (all's) end-given the amount of incorrect but common slang terms brewers use- makes my posts totally indecipherable. Nobody is looking forward to having the time to actually type, revise etc. my posts than I. Surprisingly, aside from following up on this thread, I don't feel inclined to post here?


Re: " An arrogant aggression of head retention"
Were you genuinely referring to the beer, as I was in terms of its oft "offensive" Chinook presence up front? I hope it does, and subsequently changes drastically on occasion I nurse a glass for a couple hours. If you were wondering, it is not overcarbed now. I fail to see the down side of requiring little CO2.(?)


Also, I am curious to what claims I need to back up, please tell. I like to think I'm good at using Google Scholar, and it never hurts to double check.
 
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BarleyWhines said:
Surprisingly, aside from following up on this thread, I don't feel inclined to post here?
Click to expand...

This is kind of where I feared you might go so, I'll address it. There is an incredible amount of experimentation, general brewing techniques, and brewing science on this forum. And, for the most part, people are very willing to offer advice, which there is a great deal of, in a judgement and aggression free manner. Stick around, search, learn, and contribute. Not to make excuses or belittle your interpretations of peoples posts but, there are and have been in the past a few trolls that strafe the forum with ill conceived poorly written nonsense in what seems like an effort to incite ridiculous threads and responses. So when there are what looks like poorly written incitement intending posts, people go straight to the memes as a sort of inside joke and way of reducing the "power of a troll". In short, there is always room for people who want to try new things, post results, and especially bring a scientific eye to the process.


On another note. 3lbs of carapils is a curiously large amount, especially considering the manufacturers upper limit recommendation of 5% (but that is just a recommendation). I think it comes out to about 17% of the total grist in this recipe and makes your caramel malt amount pushing 30%. Mashing low seems to have allowed you to get a fairly good attenuation (about 84%) at 1.017 - this comes out to a whopping 12.5% ABV from the 1.113 OG. And, if you like the beer it seems like it has worked for you. It does seem a bit complicated since, personally, I would have reduced the amount of dextrine malt and increased the mash temp to produce dextrines from my base malt instead. Two paths to a similar result? Possibly. I would be curious to try a beer made with your process even if I think it was a bit complicated.
 
You came onto the beginners' forum, said you had very little brewing experience, posted a recipe with a very unconventional grain bill and some unconventional procedures, and asked for feedback. When people with more brewing experience gave you feedback, you launched into some pretty confusing and long-winded explanations of why they were wrong. I think that's why you received the reaction you did.

What was your goal in posting in here? If you had all of the answers, why were you posting in the beginners' forum and asking for feedback? If you had just posted and said, "I'm looking to experiment and I've decided to brew this weird recipe, I'll let you know how it turns out," you probably would have gotten more responses along the lines of "Cool, good luck," which seems to be more what you were fishing for.
 
BarleyWhines said:
Were you genuinely referring to the beer, as I was in terms of its oft "offensive" Chinook presence up front?
Click to expand...

No… I was referring to ”its oft offensive 3 lbs of Carapils presence up front”.
Stated in readable terms - “use of Carapils consisting of a massive percentage of your grain bill that will produce a great deal of unwanted foam. “

BarleyWhines said:
can you blame me for entertaining myself by saying I expect it to taste like biting into thick arrogance?
Click to expand...

Yes… Actually I can.
Entertain yourself in your personal beer journal. A forum is a venue for sharing ideas and methods. Not even the most experienced brewmaster can explain what “biting into thick arrogance” means. Are you posting to listen to yourself, or actually trying to convey an idea. It's never too late to start.
Your continued use of flowery, meaningless expressions dismiss whatever random point you are trying to express. As mentioned in previous posts, it's quite troll worthy.
 
If troll worthy, why am I confided to entertain myself in a journal?

Flowery expressions? Okay, I love flowers and horticulture in general. Biting into viscous cocky arrogance does not seem very flowery to me, more snarky; Then again, cacti and plenty of poisonous flowers exist, so I'm not sure "flowery" means anything to me. I assume you mean the proverbial "faggot" or "gay", which is telling enough. As tempting as it is , to wait for someone else to explain it, that comment alone compels me to tell:
I expect it to taste good to me, maybe not good to you. Thick arrogance meaning success, despite the replies of mashing too low. Never having never tried, or presumably researched or experimented with lower and longer mash lengths. Nor first wort hopping . hell, Yooper had to come in to say my biggest risk was being too cloying and sweet, not dry. Had I mashed higher , I assume you would be right that it would have excessive head retention. Arrogant Bastard's retention is not at all excessive to me, personally.

I apparently did not submit an edit of one of my earliest posts, address that I would be detailing my procedure when able to. However, not many posts asked such. Obviously, I'm excluding all posts before I clarified I was going to brew this way. I honestly expected more people to have mashed low and long.I also expected more to have experience with such high crystal malt bills, a la Bigfoot (if that's too flowery for you, it means "in the way or style of").

@jerbrew
Obviously I'll still be using this site as a resource when needed, but I didn't expect it to be the 4Chan of homebrew forums. I assume you are right, a higher/shorter mash, with less dextrine malts, probably would've given me equal results if not better to my palate. Perhaps not, especially in another week or two, how the dark fruit/aged flavors come out. Needless to say, at some point I will be repeating this recipe at a higher mash temp, and shorter duration. Curiosity's sake if nothing else.

@posiclean
Yes, I agree that is what I should've said, and apparently couldn't clarify or amend it as such,after my original post. I thought it might seem too arrogant, were I to post this in any other forum. Despite having helped with countless homebrews and even on a much larger scale, I have not brewed many by myself. Nor could I find any reports of similar mashes, hence my OP, and clarification afterwards.


I thought it was proper etiquette to address every response possible/deserving. Im sorry it came off as long-winded, and have wasted so much of your time. I fail to see how any of my posts, aside from those which I acknowledged, became "off-topic" . Tangent inherently means related to, literally "touching/connected (by)" . Trust me, i regret time wasted here posting this recipe more than anyone. As such, I again appreciate your and everyone's posts which had some construction to them.

I'll update this when kegged, with full procedure and picture, save the rare chance someone replies with something relevant, or similar experimentation. Thanks for everyone's, which actually gave their, time.
 
BarleyWhines said:
Flowery expressions? Okay, I love flowers and horticulture in general. Biting into viscous cocky arrogance does not seem very flowery to me, more snarky; Then again, cacti and plenty of poisonous flowers exist, so I'm not sure "flowery" means anything to me. I assume you mean the proverbial "faggot" or "gay", which is telling enough.
Click to expand...

Wow... I try to give folks the benefit of the doubt, but trolls eventually reveal themselves.
It's become apparent that you're only here to play with people.
If you were actually brewing something, you would be interested in some meaningful discourse.
While everyone's been trying to figure out what you're talking about, you've just wasted their time.
 
How do you figure, and what did you mean by flowery? What has "flowery" been most commonly used to refer to in recent history? As far as I've heard it used, most often feminine. In my experience, someone using feminine as an insult/critique has virtually always meant such.

I.e. My posting, continuing to update this thread, even when it has meant staying up too late, out of reciprocity ; of the few people who were critical but at least commented ABOUT this thread/my decisions, is not my definition of trolling. I could have made it a lot more hilarious, I assume, were I to try to; Why a troll would post in the beginners forum for starters. I don't want to whatsoever out of respect for Yooper, though.

I do wish I had that amount of free time. Congratulations if you do. I will be waiting for response on what you meant by flowery.

I really doubt you meant hoppy, given the context. It is not exactly saying I have wet brain, trying to be poetic or just a rambler likem Greg Koch, "fried", or anything else. By urban dictionary, and in my experience, it is again most often used to say "effeminate". It sure seems like it was meant to be an insult. Just like " Arrogant (bastard) aggression" sure doesn't seem like you were referring to that beer, as I was.

I assumed that you meant to wittily be passive aggressively in saying that I was arrogant in not considering excessive head retention. I wish, but doubt it will have near the retention of Celebration, Harvest, and Bigfoot; given the lower mash temps. Arrogant's retention is lesser than any of those IME. That assumption is based on reading as much about low/longer mashes effects on caramalts, and friends' experimentation, though, not my own.

Ironic you accuse me of wasting everyone's time in a totally off topic post. Bring told"no; you made a mistake " AFTER I've brewed no less, not replying to/continuing the discussion. To repeat, I responded why I did _____" and haven't gotten many responses , or a change in subject devolved to pure off topic, like your last. I hoped I'd get some quick experience brewing any way similarly and I didn't. Next question- or discussion, as you said?
 
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Since I have a few minutes, I'll detail what I can:


All malts in ~120*F water for a couple hours

-Heated up my 30gal mash run at 120, struck again with the rye, 1oz FFlight, and 1gal at same temp.
-Struck at 160* with 1g after 15min, poured in the rest of the grains, and struck with 3g 150* . Temp was 143*
After 75min dropped to 135* and cooled to 115* outside. Struck with the last gallon of water at 150*. 143* again, 140* after 2hr. Cooled outdoors at 0* within a half hour stirring.

I chose to mash as such due to being common practice in Belgian Strongs, and the apparent efficiency boost from it. Only took one half gallon sparge to get 5g, with a higher efficiency than expected with the gravity. Needless to say I was very pleased with it.


I wonder what critique will be for a mostly Munich and caraMunich base hoppy strong rye, as well as substituted for caramalts in whichever pale based (I knoe the brother in law would appreciate Two Hearted). I might even use this same hop combo to compare its properties compared to this Hopeslam. Any polygamous forum geeks should see. Obviously when entirely finished, ~3+wks after brewing I will update, but anyone interested who doesn't want to respond to such a depressing thread, can PM me.
 
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