Why does BJCP scoring go 0 to 50?

[TNGabe]

When beers are only supposed to score in the 13-45?

Let's not turn this into a BJCP bashing thread (pretty please with sugar on top).

 

[Phunhog]

I think they don't score beers in the 0-13 range because they don't want to piss people off and in turn them off of competitions....or even homebrewing all together. It is still supposed to be a fun hobby. I have actually received a 13 several years ago from a Grand Master in a local comp!! Talk about discouraging!!
At the upper end of the spectrum....I would say that a few beers do actually get there but it supposed to be a rare occurence.

 

[Mongrel]

It might be fun to try to score a zero.

 

[Brulosopher]

Screw BJCP!!! Bash, bash, baaaaaassshhh!!!

Meh.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

It might be fun to try to score a zero.

Just submit a Miller 64!

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Just submit a Miller 64!

In category 13F ;-)

 

[MustBeZ]

Screw BJCP!!! Bash, bash, baaaaaassshhh!!!

Meh.

Someone's got to do it.

 

[passedpawn]

I knew the comedy would come.

 

[Braufessor]

I think they don't score beers in the 0-13 range because they don't want to piss people off and in turn them off of competitions....or even homebrewing all together. It is still supposed to be a fun hobby. ..............
At the upper end of the spectrum....I would say that a few beers do actually get there but it supposed to be a rare occurence.

This ^^^^

Scores over 45 do happen for sure, but are fairly uncommon...... because it is uncommon to have a beer that is really that outstanding.

On the other hand, giving a beer a zero, or a 5 does not really do anything that a 13 does not do....... except demoralize, offend, upset, turn off the brewer. Often people are looking to improve their beers through feedback, giving someone an embarrassing score does not really serve any useful purpose in my opinion. If you get a score in the teens (I have a couple to my credit like most who enter comps) you know that you missed the mark and have work to do in some regard on that beer before it is where it needs to be.

 

[TNGabe]

But if 13 is 0, what's the difference?

 

[Wynne-R]

I saw a 7 once, and a 48.

I had one that should have been negative 13. It shot out of the bottle soaking the ceiling panel ten feet above the table. Unfortunately there was enough of the vile liquid left to taste. It was a putrid vegetal butter corn cardboard band-aid. We had to take a break. The adjacent judges changed tables to get away from the smell.

I suspect it was from an evil genius with a pathological hatred of judges.

 

[passedpawn]

I saw a 7 once, and a 48.

I had one that should have been negative 13. It shot out of the bottle soaking the ceiling panel ten feet above the table. Unfortunately there was enough of the vile liquid left to taste. It was a putrid vegetal butter corn cardboard band-aid. We had to take a break. The adjacent judges changed tables to get away from the smell.

I suspect it was from an evil genius with a pathological hatred of judges.

haha, I spit up my soda just now.

 

[Phunhog]

But if 13 is 0, what's the difference?

a 13 isn't a 0. If you entered an empty bottle or bottled filled with water then you could receive a zero. Even if you entered in the most vile beer ever.."something" (color, mouthfeel, carbonation, etc...) will get you a few points.

 

[Effingbeer]

Just out of curiosity, What score is the dividing line between drinkable and undrinkable? Is that 13?

 

[Wynne-R]

The scoresheet says:

Outstanding (45-50) World-class example of style
Excellent (38-44) exemplifies style well, requires minor fine-tuning
Very Good (30-37) Generally within style parameters, some minor flaws
Good (21-29) Misses the mark on style and/or minor flaws
Fair (14-20) Off flavors, aromas or major style deficiencies
Problematic (0-13) Major off flavors and aromas dominate

Depends on what you call ‘drinkable’. I draw the line about 30.

 

[TNGabe]

"A beer that is strongly infected or that contains a flaw so severe that it makes the beer undrinkable can be assigned a score of 13. However, this is simply a guideline. If the flaws are so bad that even a 13 is generous, judges can score lower. Simply justify your score using a bottoms-up method; assign points for positive attributes that are present. Give the benefit of the doubt for low-scoring beers. A score of 13 makes the point that the beer is essentially undrinkable; lower scores can be taken as spiteful. If you do score lower than 13, strive to make as many useful comments as possible on how the brewer can improve the beer. Always look for positive comments to make about a beer, and then let the brewer know what aspects of the beer need attention and how to correct any flaws."

- From http://www.bjcp.org/study.php

When I judged I drank a beer that made me want to find the brewer and stab them with the broken bottle and the nationals judge in my group strongly encouraged me to give it a 13 anyway.

 

[Weezy]

because we were originally a British colony and accurate, normalized, scaling systems are not acceptable?

let's not forget that the basis for the unit of measure of an inch is three barley corns end to end. hows that for precision???

 

[Yooper]

The scoresheet says:

Outstanding (45-50) World-class example of style
Excellent (38-44) exemplifies style well, requires minor fine-tuning
Very Good (30-37) Generally within style parameters, some minor flaws
Good (21-29) Misses the mark on style and/or minor flaws
Fair (14-20) Off flavors, aromas or major style deficiencies
Problematic (0-13) Major off flavors and aromas dominate

Depends on what you call ‘drinkable’. I draw the line about 30.

I've judged beers that I've enjoyed that scored as low as 27. Most of the time, the beer was pretty good tasting but wasn't a good example of the style entered. For example, if someone entered an oatmeal stout as a schwartzbier, the beer could taste really great and be really a nice beer- but it'll score pretty low due to not hitting the style guidelines.

A beer I can not drink at all is usually due to infection or off-flavors, and not a "good" beer in that scoring sheet. That means a score of 13-20 or so is a pretty bad beer all around due to those off-flavors.

 

[Effingbeer]

I've judged beers that I've enjoyed that scored as low as 27. Most of the time, the beer was pretty good tasting but wasn't a good example of the style entered. For example, if someone entered an oatmeal stout as a schwartzbier, the beer could taste really great and be really a nice beer- but it'll score pretty low due to not hitting the style guidelines.

A beer I can not drink at all is usually due to infection or off-flavors, and not a "good" beer in that scoring sheet. That means a score of 13-20 or so is a pretty bad beer all around due to those off-flavors.

With my complete lack of judging experience, but having some good discussions with different judges at club night and other places. I am also thinking that the drink vs. pour is around a 21.

I asked because I was reading some rules for a comp that had a disclaimer that they would try to protect judges from having to put bad beers in their mouth!

 

[Yooper]

With my complete lack of judging experience, but having some good discussions with different judges at club night and other places. I am also thinking that the drink vs. pour is around a 21.

I asked because I was reading some rules for a comp that had a disclaimer that they would try to protect judges from having to put bad beers in their mouth!

We didn't have any bad beers in the final round of the NHC- but even so there were some that weren't in the "excellent" category. Trust me, I've had plenty of terrible beers in competition other than that comp!

One of the reasons brewers enter competition is to get unbiased feedback and help. Which means in order to provide that to the entrant, we sample, judge and provide helpful feedback on how to fix perceived flaws. I've had plenty of bad band-aid beer to judge, believe me!

 

[Spartan1979]

It might be fun to try to score a zero.

Not for the judges who get that beer.

 

[Darwin18]

I've judged and given a 13 only once. It was a pretty terrible, and clearly infected, beer. It's honestly difficult to score someone below a 13. You don't want to destroy them and turn them off from future competitions. That's not really the point. A 13 is a poor enough score that they'll know that they have a major flaw(s) with the beer. Plus, there's literally no way to score someone a zero. You'll accrue a few points here and there from the various sections to at least come up with 5 - 6 points, even if you sent in something truly awful. The only reason to score a beer below a 13 is to be a dick, IMO.

In most competitions that I have participated in and judged, probably 60% - 75% of the beers score below a 30. Most of those are in the low 20 to high teens. Maybe other judge's experiences have been different, but most entries seem to be looking for constructive feedback and are aware, or I hope so, of flaws with their entries and are looking to improve them. Giving someone a score below 13, which is commonly known to be the lowest, is just insulting. But that's my opinion.

 

[Hopper5000]

I am no beer judge but I have talked with quite a few at this point. I think a lot of beers don't get above 45's because judges can feel a bit timid about really liking a beer that much (especially if they aren't as experienced as some). I know one master judge who goes by the philosophy that every beer is a 50 until you open and taste it. I like that mentality personally. From what I gather if your beer gets over a 30 you did a good job. It is important to remember that the beer is getting compared to the other beers that were entered in that competition, thus, if your beer wasn't really that good but epically better than all the other ones in the category then you will probably do a lot better. Judging can be somewhat subjective IMHO.

 

[Effingbeer]

I am no beer judge but I have talked with quite a few at this point. I think a lot of beers don't get above 45's because judges can feel a bit timid about really liking a beer that much (especially if they aren't as experienced as some). I know one master judge who goes by the philosophy that every beer is a 50 until you open and taste it. I like that mentality personally. From what I gather if your beer gets over a 30 you did a good job. It is important to remember that the beer is getting compared to the other beers that were entered in that competition, thus, if your beer wasn't really that good but epically better than all the other ones in the category then you will probably do a lot better. Judging can be somewhat subjective IMHO.

This is my experience as well. If 13=0, then midpoint is 31! (I know, inflammatory). I guess the confusing spot for me is a 28 point beer that is just not quite the right style, but a good tasting beer = a 28 point beer that is brewed to style but has off flavors and I wouldn't drink it if I didn't have to.

I am hoping to spend some time learning more about judging. It seems that homebrewing is far out pacing qualifying judges.
My club has 1 BJCP judge. That's just not right.
As a newly appointed VP, this is something I would like to work on as a club. What are some good ways to gently push people to get involved?

 

[Hopper5000]

well i am involved on the board for my hbc, we have asked some of the judges in our club to do a presentation on judging. you could also have a tasting class at a meeting, that might get people interested. like make a bunch of hop or grain tea's and then use like miller light or something and let people taste all the different flavors.

 

[Weezy]

I know one master judge who goes by the philosophy that every beer is a 50 until you open and taste it. I like that mentality personally.

I like this too. In my youth, for the fun of it, we used to go into a restaurant and plan on giving the waitress a 25% tip. We'd track on a napkin +%'s and -%'s for things they did well and poorly. They usually ended up around 20%.

 

[MustBeZ]

I like this too. In my youth, for the fun of it, we used to go into a restaurant and plan on giving the waitress a 25% tip. We'd track on a napkin +%'s and -%'s for things they did well and poorly. They usually ended up around 20%.

One time when we were 17 or 18 we set 15 one dollar bills on the table right when we sat down. Every time they did something poorly we'd pull back a dollar. They still got like 10 bucks of kt but looking back we realized that was kind of a dick move.

 

[Bensiff]

I've judged beers that I've enjoyed that scored as low as 27. Most of the time, the beer was pretty good tasting but wasn't a good example of the style entered. For example, if someone entered an oatmeal stout as a schwartzbier, the beer could taste really great and be really a nice beer- but it'll score pretty low due to not hitting the style guidelines.

A beer I can not drink at all is usually due to infection or off-flavors, and not a "good" beer in that scoring sheet. That means a score of 13-20 or so is a pretty bad beer all around due to those off-flavors.

Ha, that was me the first and only time I entered the nationals...managed to enter an IPA with as a hef as I was half awake when I put did the labeling...my comments on my IPA praised highly and were remorseful they couldn't judge it in its proper category...still got low 20's though . Live and learn.

 

[Bensiff]

In most competitions that I have participated in and judged, probably 60% - 75% of the beers score below a 30. Most of those are in the low 20 to high teens. Maybe other judge's experiences have been different, but most entries seem to be looking for constructive feedback and are aware, or I hope so, of flaws with their entries and are looking to improve them. Giving someone a score below 13, which is commonly known to be the lowest, is just insulting. But that's my opinion.

As a build on side note, I brewed an oatmeal stout that I didn't care for, it wasn't flawed, I just wasn't excited about the flavor. My wife insisted I enter it anyway and it took first for the category and got something like a 36. So, the overall experience turned out to be well worth it for me, I got a ribbon, good thoughts, and the reminder that just because I don't like it doesn't mean its bad.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I am hoping to spend some time learning more about judging. It seems that homebrewing is far out pacing qualifying judges.
My club has 1 BJCP judge. That's just not right.
As a newly appointed VP, this is something I would like to work on as a club. What are some good ways to gently push people to get involved?

One thing my club recently did was a BJCP-style tasting session via Google Hangouts. We have a few judges in the club, but only one could attend. But we had the opportunity to let him give us a bit of a rundown on how a tasting occurs, we could all talk about the various things we were tasting in the beer, and build our own score sheets.

Rather than use homebrew, we picked a less common style for us to drink here in CA, choosing cat 8B and tasting Fuller's London Pride and Adnam's SSB.

It was a VERY well-received event, and it was somewhat easy that we could all "attend" from home. We're talking about trying to make it a regular occurrence, and it's already spurred discussion of having the judges in the club lead a BJCP study class for others to get certified.

That might spur some interest in the BJCP judging process, as well as getting your entire club to become better tasters anyway...

 

[Effingbeer]

One thing we just started was a 2 beer evaluation. 1 on the BJCP list and one from a local place. Hope to get some home brews in there too some day. We plan on this being the 1st 20 minutes or so for every meeting. It will be interesting to see how it goes. We have been doing versions of style evaluations for a while. I need advice on how to get people to step up and volunteer!!

 

[dyqik]

I saw a 7 once, and a 48.

I had one that should have been negative 13. It shot out of the bottle soaking the ceiling panel ten feet above the table. Unfortunately there was enough of the vile liquid left to taste. It was a putrid vegetal butter corn cardboard band-aid. We had to take a break. The adjacent judges changed tables to get away from the smell.

I suspect it was from an evil genius with a pathological hatred of judges.

Score 7/50

Review:

Bottle contained angry bobcat. Would not drink again.

(with apologies to XKCD)

 

[Effingbeer]

I read that one before! I hope to write such clear, concise, creative, and hilarious evaluations some day.

 

[djr323]

But it goes to eleven...