Where's my hop flavor?

[mrphillips]

Ok, so I made a 6.5% APA that I bittered with 1 oz of warrior, and tossed 3 oz of cascade in at 5 min. I proceeded to hop stand at 180 degrees for 20 min. thinking I'd have some oh-so-tasty citrus flavor without a lot of bitterness. LIES! ALL LIES! The bitterness is nice and rounded, but that's it. I've gotta lie to myself if I want to taste those cascade hops.

Thoughts?

 

[jageraholic]

Ok, so I made a 6.5% APA that I bittered with 1 oz of warrior, and tossed 3 oz of cascade in at 5 min. I proceeded to hop stand at 180 degrees for 20 min. thinking I'd have some oh-so-tasty citrus flavor without a lot of bitterness. LIES! ALL LIES! The bitterness is nice and rounded, but that's it. I've gotta lie to myself if I want to taste those cascade hops.

Thoughts?

Going to need more details, how many gallons was the batch, what did you use for malts, how many oz did you add to the hop stand?

 

[evchenko]

I've started layering flavours and aromas in 5 minute intervals from around 20 mins to flameout, might be worth doing a little shifting about.

 

[EcuPirate07]

Do you use a hop spider? I have a 15g keggle and I'm beginning to think that's my probem, wether the hops are not getting far enough into the wort bc the hop
Spider sits so high up, or just don't have enough space to extract all the hop oils (kinda like when people say not to bag your hops when you dry hop). Other than that I don't know I'm kinda just thinking out loud here for myself too. Are you dry hopping? That's where you will get a lot of the hop aroma which might be a factor.

 

[mrphillips]

This was a 5 gallon batch, and I didn't add any hops for my hop stand - just let the 5 min. addition sit at 180 degrees for 20 min. I'm thinking this might be where I can improve - adding more hops at flameout and letting those hops sit for 20 min. And no, I do not use a hop spider.

My plan WAS to dry hop, but due to travel and blah blah blah, I had to bottle/keg a little early, so I didn't have time to do a proper dry hop.

Good advise. I believe I'll do Centennial instead of Cascade next time, and add new hops for my hop stand.

 

[joshesmusica]

How old is the beer now? Cascade is a great hop. It's got a little hint of some piney or spicy flavors in the background but it's a lot of citrus when alone. Pair it with citra, or amarillo, or really any other citrusy hop, and it's even better.

There's still a lot we don't know about hops. But for the most part, people are finding that the old adage about bitterness being 30-60 min additions, flavor being, 15-25 min, and aroma being 10 and under, is largely misrepresenting the way hops work in the boil. A lot of the "flavor" we get from hops comes from the aroma. That's why IPA glasses are shaped the way they are, and that's why people will often swirl the beer before taking a swig - to allow the co2 escaping to bring the aroma with it. I was always instructed to try to inhale a bit with my nose while taking a drink.

Next time, try dry hopping though. With at least as much as your late addition. That's where the freshest and brightest flavor/aroma will come from. And try to drink them as fresh as possible.

 

[bransona]

Hopstand is the practice of adding hops post-flameout at your temperature goal. You boiled the hopstand potential right out of those bad boys. This also seems a little light on hops (<1oz/gallon)

 

[mrphillips]

The intent of the beer (to start out, anyways) was an APA, not an IPA, so I didn't wan't to destroy it with hops. You're all right about the hop stand, I didn't completely understand that term. Always learning. Gotta love this hobby!

As an update, the beers fully carbed and there is more hop flavor than before...just not the "brightness" that I wanted. If I can show some damn patients next time, I think I'll have what I'm looking for.

 

[TheHopfather]

The intent of the beer (to start out, anyways) was an APA, not an IPA, so I didn't wan't to destroy it with hops. You're all right about the hop stand, I didn't completely understand that term. Always learning. Gotta love this hobby!

The hopstand won't turn your beer into an IPA. You were complaining about not being able to taste the Cascade, a hopstand will allow you to do that. Toss in another 2oz or so for a hopstand and do another 2oz for a dry hop. You'll end up with a beer that tastes like Cascade.

 

[joshesmusica]

The intent of the beer (to start out, anyways) was an APA, not an IPA, so I didn't wan't to destroy it with hops. You're all right about the hop stand, I didn't completely understand that term. Always learning. Gotta love this hobby!

As an update, the beers fully carbed and there is more hop flavor than before...just not the "brightness" that I wanted. If I can show some damn patients next time, I think I'll have what I'm looking for.

What kind of damned patients are we dealing with here? Could explain the problem.

But seriously. Take the advice above, and it'll turn out better next time. Bright side is that it's still beer this time, and you get to just make another batch to try to improve your brewing skills.

 

[CUrchin]

Destroy beer with hops? I'm just dumbfounded. Is that possible?

 

[bransona]

Destroy beer with hops? I'm just dumbfounded. Is that possible?

Make a 1.030 brew at 15oz/gallon and then tell us

 

[mrphillips]

You might have a new beer style: Off The Coast West Coast IPA.

Good advice. And honestly for all my complaining, the beer really is quite good (the neighbors have made my keg considerably lighter), but I'm looking forward to putting this advise to good use in a week or two.

 

[IslandLizard]

There have been reports on some 2015 harvest hops not having as much flavor/aroma as expected. That could play a role in what you're experiencing.

Typical hopstand/whirlpool hops start around 180°F and lower, with constant recirculation or stirring every minute or 2. 30' is about the minimum, most go an hour or longer, with 2 or 3 additions at different temps. I know you made an APA, not an IPA, but the same analogy applies, just with fewer hops.

Even a modest dry hop will give you that brightness you're looking for. And as said before, many hops work better in presence of another, related hop. Can we call that symbiotic flavor and aroma?

Also, keeping air exposure to a minimum keeps hoppy beers, well, hoppy.