When to go from Primary to Secondary (If at all)

Yakima 728
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Mahilly,

What about racking to another container, cleaning the bottling bucket and racking right back to bottle? I think the spigot is a ton easier than trying to regulate a siphon.
 
That thought did occur to me...when I posted that last question i had forgotten that I will also need to rack into the priming sugar. Since I'm going to be racking twice I think I will first rack into the clearing gelatin, let it sit for a couple days, then rack back into the bottling bucket and priming sugar to bottle it.

Segway to my next question...the reason I used my bottling bucket as the fermenter is because my would-be fermenting bucket (shorter fatter white plastic bucket) does not have a rubber seal on the lid (it just snaps onto the bucket). My equipment has been sitting on a shelf in the garage for 10 years and I could not remember if it ever had a rubber seal in the first place (like the bottling bucket does). Maybe it just fell off at some point and got lost? Does anyone else out there have a similar set up? Does your fermenter have a seal? Does it need one? should I get a new fermenting bucket? I think I have answered my own questions here but any feedback would be great. Thanks!!!
 
Brewing. Before the invention of thermometers, the brewer tested the wort
by placing his thumb in it. When he could reliably place his thumb in the wort without having to remove it because of the heat, the wort was cool enough to pitch the yeast.

It is debatable.
 
Phew! I've made it through this entire thread. I'm probably only going to be keeping everything in my primary for my first time brewing, but I did have one question come up while reading all of this.

If I'm going to be keeping it in the primary for 3 to 4 weeks anyway, what is the purpose of checking the SG after the first week? Is the extra 2 to 3 weeks tacked on only from the moment fermentation is complete?
 
The Process I have been taught to use is, to use the primary intil the airlock slows to 1 bubble every 30 seconds, then rack to secondary.

I stay in the secondary until i see the haze settle to the bottom (you cal see a line at the top that will move to the bottom as the yeast settles out)

Then i prime, and bottle! I have never been let down with this process yet!
 
Arkador said:
The Process I have been taught to use is, to use the primary intil the airlock slows to 1 bubble every 30 seconds, then rack to secondary.
Click to expand...


What happens if you don't have the experience to know if it's ready, you rely on the above method but you do not have a good lid/bung/grommet seal.

It is one of several indications and probably the least reliable.

I'm glad it's work so reliably for you but it is my opinion that it is bad advice for a noob to solely rely on this method.
 
Hey guys,

I am doing my first batch of beer. I am currently brewing "A-Z Brown Ale" kit from Xtreme Brewing. It is supposed to be an easy kit for starters. I read the directions and it doesn't say anything about transferring to a secondary, but it looks like it might be done fermenting and there is a lot of sentiment at the bottom of the carboy.

Even though it doesn't tell me to put in a secondary to condition, would this be a good move or could this potentially damage the brew?

Here is the Step by Step
 
How long has fermentation been going for? Transferring won't hurt the brew-on the contrary it will help clarify the final product, but make sure that a) fermentation is done (you've reached the right final gravity), and b) avoid transferring as much of the sediment as possible.
 
Brewtimore said:
Hey guys,

I am doing my first batch of beer. I am currently brewing "A-Z Brown Ale" kit from Xtreme Brewing. It is supposed to be an easy kit for starters. I read the directions and it doesn't say anything about transferring to a secondary, but it looks like it might be done fermenting and there is a lot of sentiment at the bottom of the carboy.

Even though it doesn't tell me to put in a secondary to condition, would this be a good move or could this potentially damage the brew?

Here is the Step by Step
Click to expand...

It is all a matter of preference whether or not to move your beer to secondary. If you do decide to move it, make sure fermentation is complete by taking a hydrometer reading, wait a few days, and take another one. Fermentation will be complete if the numbers didn't change. There is no way to tell if fermentation is done just by eyeing it.
 
Brewtimore said:
Hey guys,

Even though it doesn't tell me to put in a secondary to condition, would this be a good move or could this potentially damage the brew?
Click to expand...

Yes transferring to the secondary has some risks. Anytime you move the beer around you introduce oxygen. Oxidation will give your beer a cardboard like flavor. Also, you run the risk of infecting the beer. Both risks of infection and oxidation can be minimized with the proper techniques but why risk it? What the benefits? Let the beer settle out in the primary and there is really no need to transfer to a secondary. IMHO the risks out weight the benefits.
 
As Shoemaker said, it's all a matter of preference. I only secondary if I am dry hopping an IPA, adulturating a porter, or making a very pale beer that I want to clarify with gelatin or polyclair. And the clairifying reason only stands if I am rushing the beer a bit and want to shave some time off letting it restin the bottle or keg.
As long as your sanitation practices are good and you are careful with the transfer not to introduce air, you won't hurt the beer.
 
I'm 50/50 on using a secondary. As pretty much everyone else mentioned, some styles are better than others when it comes to a secondary. A good 2-3 weeks in the primary should allow everything to settle out and will produce a perfectly fine beer. If you do wish to make a "crystal-clear" beer, you may want to consider racking to the secondary and adding gelatin for a few days before bottling.

Basically, it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish. You do not NEED to use a secondary, so if your style does not call for it, don't use one. And if you do use one, just take the proper precautions regarding sanitization of your equipment before making the move. Try not to splash the beer into the secondary and you'll minimize the amount of oxidation. Don't be scared to use a secondary, but don't feel like it is 100% necessary either.
 
I am hard-core against secondary. Hell, I'm not convinced you even need to do it while lagering. If you're somewhat competent with an autosiphon you can get away without doing it for anything.
 
Thanks for all the responses guys. I think I am going to not do the secondary. It is my very first batch. I might try it with the IPA I am doing this weekend, but for this round, I will leave it in the primary.

Thanks again.
 
maida7 said:
Yes transferring to the secondary has some risks. Anytime you move the beer around you introduce oxygen. Oxidation will give your beer a cardboard like flavor. Also, you run the risk of infecting the beer. Both risks of infection and oxidation can be minimized with the proper techniques but why risk it? What the benefits? Let the beer settle out in the primary and there is really no need to transfer to a secondary. IMHO the risks out weight the benefits.
Click to expand...

Bah. by this reasoning, making homebrew vs. buying beer at the store isn't worth the risk since it might not turn out.

If you transfer properly, there is no risk. If you can't rack to secondary without oxidizing the beer, you'll never get it into the bottle or keg without oxidizing.

I agree...all beers do not require a secondary, and some styles will suffer from it.

For me, I get MUCH clearer beers with a 2 week secondary, vs. a long primary going straight to bottle.
 
When I bottled, I almost always did a secondary. I felt that I had much less sediment in my bottles, and didn't bottle the beer until it was clear. The beer was aged, too, since it was in the secondary and I couldn't touch it!

When I started kegging, I started leaving my beers in the primary for 3-4 weeks, and then kegging it.

Aside from the sediment issue, I don't notice a bit of difference in my beer. As long as I age it, that is! Since I keg it, it's all to easy to drink it too early! In a bottled beer, you're forced to wait until the beer is conditioned, since it needs time to carb up. To keep myself from hitting them too early, I've contemplated going back to using a secondary. Not because the beer needs it, but because it keeps me out of it longer.

The choice is yours- I don't know of any specific benefits to most ales. But I don't know of any specific hindrances, either!
 
YooperBrew said:
To keep myself from hitting them too early, I've contemplated going back to using a secondary. Not because the beer needs it, but because it keeps me out of it longer.

QUOTE]

YES! I am drinking more homebrew, and earlier, ever since I started kegging. I usually go 3-4 weeks in primary, then straight to keg. I know it is still a bit green,, but in a few days, I begin to sample.. then sample some more...

Bottles lasted longer, I am sure
Click to expand...
 
I brewed a NB Cream Ale. Transferred to secondary and bottled. The beer came out a lot more amber colored and has an off aroma but the taste is still alright. I just add a lemon wedge to it and it keeps me drinking it :) Is this off aroma relative to not allowing it to ferment properly by being in a primary primarily? There seemed to be brain matter in the first stages of fermentation about 3-4 inches below the top of the Krausen.
 
Poolplayer said:
I brewed a NB Cream Ale. Transferred to secondary and bottled. The beer came out a lot more amber colored and has an off aroma but the taste is still alright. I just add a lemon wedge to it and it keeps me drinking it :) Is this off aroma relative to not allowing it to ferment properly by being in a primary primarily? There seemed to be brain matter in the first stages of fermentation about 3-4 inches below the top of the Krausen.
Click to expand...

No, using a secondary vs a primary only doesn't change the flavor or aroma of the beer. There is another issue here that causes the off aroma.
 
I always use a secondary unless it is a low alcohol session bitter or similar style. In fact sometimes I transfer the beer to a secondary and then into another vessel right at bottling time. I avoid any splashing whatsoever and there is enough CO2 built up in the beer that any oxygen is pushed out of the carboy before it is closed up again, and the oxygen that remains there I’m not worried about. That said I am also going from all grain all the time and I haven’t had a batch that didn’t taste fantastic. Generally the bigger the beer the more resistant it will be to spoilage of any kind... although I think heavy oxygenation will spoil any beer no matter what the strength of alcohol and hops.
 
I get the feeling I either covered the wort causing the "cooked corn" scent or I stirred it during the cool down phase causing hot side aeration. I moved the bottles to my bedroom closet where I keep it a little warmer and the odor has dissipated after three days of conditioning there. Whatever it was it's beer now:mug:
 
I'm going to experiment with a double batch. I will transfer one to secondary and leave one in the primary until bottling day to see if there are inherent differences in the overall quality of the beers.
 
Poolplayer said:
I get the feeling I either covered the wort causing the "cooked corn" scent or I stirred it during the cool down phase causing hot side aeration. I moved the bottles to my bedroom closet where I keep it a little warmer and the odor has dissipated after three days of conditioning there. Whatever it was it's beer now:mug:
Click to expand...

Hot side aeration is a myth. Don't believe the hype.
 
Poolplayer said:
I'm going to experiment with a double batch. I will transfer one to secondary and leave one in the primary until bottling day to see if there are inherent differences in the overall quality of the beers.
Click to expand...

If you leave them both in the fermenters for the same amount of time, I doubt you will see any significant difference.
 
I say even if you secondary there is no need to rush your bier from primary to secondary. I don't move any bier before the yeast have had time to clean up after themselves. I've heard Palmer and others allude to the fact that the yeast help to eat up several 'off-flavor' components. We've beat autolysis to death on here, suffice to say you aint got to worry about that in regard to 5.5 gallon batches unless you're leaving the bier on the original yeast cake for 6+ weeks.

I've found that I get plenty clear beer when I bottle directly from the primary at 24-30 days if I've used irish moss or whirlfloc tablets. If I don't use those 'in boil' clarifiers I get 'cloudier' bier. So if you want clear bier use irish moss/whirlfloc or use a secondary. Then again that's just my experience. With a current batch I'm planning on chilling it in the water bath, using frozen bottles much like fermentation, for 4-7 days before bottling. I used whirlfloc in this batch, but I want to see if this 'chilling' makes a difference... sort of a ghetto approach to cold crashing.

No matter what you can only mess up if you move it too soon!

Schlante,
Phillip
 
MVKTR2 said:
I say even if you secondary there is no need to rush your bier from primary to secondary. I don't move any bier before the yeast have had time to clean up after themselves. I've heard Palmer and others allude to the fact that the yeast help to eat up several 'off-flavor' components. We've beat autolysis to death on here, suffice to say you aint got to worry about that in regard to 5.5 gallon batches unless you're leaving the bier on the original yeast cake for 6+ weeks.

I've found that I get plenty clear beer when I bottle directly from the primary at 24-30 days if I've used irish moss or whirlfloc tablets. If I don't use those 'in boil' clarifiers I get 'cloudier' bier. So if you want clear bier use irish moss/whirlfloc or use a secondary. Then again that's just my experience. With a current batch I'm planning on chilling it in the water bath, using frozen bottles much like fermentation, for 4-7 days before bottling. I used whirlfloc in this batch, but I want to see if this 'chilling' makes a difference... sort of a ghetto approach to cold crashing.

No matter what you can only mess up if you move it too soon!

Schlante,
Phillip
Click to expand...

I'm gonna start "ghetto" cold crashing the same way, or at least until it gets cold enough in the garage to do it. I've also noticed that highly flocculent yeast will get my beer clearer much faster than say US-05, which hangs out FOREVER, as well.
 
Granted I am a noob myself, but I have one primary and three secondaries, the plan being, that I can get a solid rotation going of fermentation, clarification, and bottling. So, mostly logistics. That being said, I am tremendously surprised by the amount of clarity I got on my first batch of beer by letting it sit in secondary for 3 weeks, as well as the sediment that settled out. Of course, I haven't tasted anything yet. ;)
 
As Orfy has stated, it takes experience to know what works and what doesn't for the beer you are brewing, and if you are comfortable with using a secondary, then by all means use it.

With that said, I am so experienced I don't even use a primary anymore. :)
 
I've done a few easy brews with no secondary that turned out good. Next is a big Belgian that is more $ and I really want to nail, so I'm gonna follow NorthernBrewer's instructions and rack to secondary.
 
Wow ... I read the entire thread, every post. I feel ... bug-eyed. What I got from all these posts:

1) Forget the bubble thing. Use a sanitized turkey baster or wine thief to extract some beer. Use a hydrometer and take readings 2 or three days in a row and look for any change. If it's stable, it's done fermenting. Also: Don't dump the sampled beer, taste it!

2) Don't worry too much about removing the lid to take the hydrometer readings because CO2 is denser than O2. Don't worry too much about bacterial contamination as long as everything is properly sanitized and try not to drool or sneeze into your fermenter.

3) You can leave the beer 7-10 days or 3-4 weeks in the primary if you want, whatever works for you. As long as the fermentation is done, the rest is all just clarification.

4) Beer will clarify in the primary just as much as in a secondary so don't worry about it too much. If you want a super clear beer and are careful when racking to secondary, go for it.

Does that about sum it up? :rockin:
 
I use a secondary in most cases but that is because I usually harvest and reuse my yeasties after a batch so it makes sense for me to harvest the yeast and wash it rather then have it sitting in my primary for a month.
 
Same as bierbrauer. Use secondary since I reuse the yeast every two weeks. (good for about 4 batches) I also will make the same style of beer, just different variations, thus the reason i reuse yeast. I find it to be the most efficient for me. Brew, Bottle or Keg, Transfer to Secondary all at the same time. I guess I use a 2-2-2 pattern. I just dont want to let the yeast sit for four weeks. Especially if you are dumping on top of the last batch. Theres so much yeast it will bubble in a couple of hours and finish within 3 to 5 days.
 
I am learning so much, this is a crash course in homebrewing.... I got the bug, got it bad...............................
 

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