When to go from Primary to Secondary (If at all)

[Throckmorton]

That is an interesting method that never occured to me. But I'm not sure it would be very accurate over the long haul. I don't think you can assume the amount of yeast in your tube would equal by ratio the number of yeast in the fermentor. I would also think that the tube would be more prone to temp variences vs. the larger volume of the fermenter. Still... that is a pretty cool idea. I would still take a FG reading.

 

[truckerzero]

i mixed the yeast up very well by shaking my ale pale first
but you are right on the temp variations
i got the idea from Homebrewing Video - Beer Making & How To Make Beer Videosthey used a empty beer bottle to keep the satalite brew in
i just kept it in the flask
this is the video i used to make my first brew
it was a wheat
im proud to say its great
no off flavors and a healthy 5.5%abv

 

[FiddleTilDeath]

I guess I'm still wondering just why I would want to use a secondary fermenter at all if I'm happy having cloudy beer and have had good results thus far? Will there ever be a situation where a secondary fermenter is absolutely necessary? I just don't see any reason to go beyond a primary fermenter and then adding sugar to carbonate in bottles...

 

[Orfy]

I guess I'm still wondering just why I would want to use a secondary fermenter at all if I'm happy having cloudy beer and have had good results thus far? Will there ever be a situation where a secondary fermenter is absolutely necessary? I just don't see any reason to go beyond a primary fermenter and then adding sugar to carbonate in bottles...

Not using a secondary does not mean you'll have cloudy beer.
You only need a secondary when you NEED to get the beer of the trub or you actually want to restart fermentation in a different vessel.

 

[1070front]

Should you be taking off the fermentation locks to do the hydrometer tests?

 

[boo boo]

Should you be taking off the fermentation locks to do the hydrometer tests?

It's the only way to do it I'm aware of.

 

[adamd]

I want to secondary in my holding kegs. Then filter to my serving kegs. What flaws will come from this method other than not having all kegs available?

 

[kenstogie]

I am making an Imperial Stout using a super easy Munton's Kit which is essentially a packet of yeast and 2 cans of some super sweet molasses type stuff.

I mixed the syrup and water in the fermenter (ie big bucket) and added the yeast that I mixed up 2 days prior in a Grolsch type bottle. The temp read a constant 68-70

Here's the newbie question...It stopped bubbling after 2-3 days and didn't really bubble all that much maybe once ever second at most. Is this normal? THe instructions indicate it will stop after 7-8 days. Thanks in advance for any thoughts. CHEERS!

 

[Yooper]

I am making an Imperial Stout using a super easy Munton's Kit which is essentially a packet of yeast and 2 cans of some super sweet molasses type stuff.

I mixed the syrup and water in the fermenter (ie big bucket) and added the yeast that I mixed up 2 days prior in a Grolsch type bottle. The temp read a constant 68-70

Here's the newbie question...It stopped bubbling after 2-3 days and didn't really bubble all that much maybe once ever second at most. Is this normal? THe instructions indicate it will stop after 7-8 days. Thanks in advance for any thoughts. CHEERS!

yes, that could be normal. Bubbling from the airlock isn't really a reliable way to gauge fermentation activity. I've had beers bubble a ton and not finish well, and others show NO bubbling but ferment out. After a week, you can check it with your hydrometer to be sure it's finished.

 

[kenstogie]

yes, that could be normal. Bubbling from the airlock isn't really a reliable way to gauge fermentation activity. I've had beers bubble a ton and not finish well, and others show NO bubbling but ferment out. After a week, you can check it with your hydrometer to be sure it's finished.

Thanks Man! if this goes well, who knows what I'll brew next!

 

[BluegrassyBrewer]

I've been hearing different views on this subject, and no one really has a concensus on it. Is a secondary fermenter truly necessary? I will be making an ale probably (hopefully) tomorrow and am just wondering about this. Couldn't I just leave it in the primary until the airlock bubbles a minute or two between each one and then bottle it and age for a week or two?

 

[joe6pack]

Well, I'll take a shot at this but I'm still new around here.

No, a secondary is not necessary. A lot of accomplished brewers don't use it. You can make great beer without transferring to a secondary fermenter.

BUT, you will want to leave it in primary longer in lieu of a secondary. And don't gauge the fermentation by the airlock. If you aren't going to use a secondary, I would leave it in primary for at least three weeks, and then take a hyrdrometer reading. Then, two days later, take another one. If they read the same, you are set for bottling. (Unless the gravity is much higher than anticipated, suggesting a stuck fermentation.)

If you bottle too soon, you will be making bottle bombs.

 

[Malticulous]

I secondary for dry hopping, clearing, or just letting it age and free up a primary.

 

[billtzk]

I think it is useful to have several buckets or carboys. If you have only one, you may not be able to brew as often as you'd like.

I personally don't care for the idea of letting a beer sit on the yeast cake for longer than three weeks, although I have gone that long and even up to four weeks a couple of times. Most beers I transfer out of primary after two weeks. By this time fermentation is generally done, so racking the beer into secondary is not for fermentation but for clearing and conditioning. I just think using a secondary makes for a cleaner beer, but some folks swear by leaving it in primary to clear.

Either way, it never hurts to have a spare fermenter or two. I have a 6.5 gallon carboy, a six gallon, two five gallons (for clearing), and a 14.5 gallon conical. But these days I'm using the carboys for mead and the conical for primary, and then using a couple of cornies as my conditioning/clearing tanks.

 

[Amiaji]

Secondaries aren't required, as many experienced brewers will tell you. Some always use a secondary, some never use one and some only use them for certain situations. I like using a secondary mainly so I dont have to be so careful when I rack from primary. If I pickup a little trub when racking to secondary its no big deal. Then in a few days to a week later when I rack to a bottling bucket or keg there isn't much trub to worry about picking up. Its all a judgement call.

 

[BrianP]

I used to use secondaries, but now go directly from primary to bottling bucket. The key is to allow plenty of time (2-3 weeks for me generally) to allow the fermentation to complete and also to let the yeast clean up diacetyl and other byproducts from the active phase of fermentation. The extra time really allows the yeast to settle out and the resulting beer will be clear. If you rack carefully, you will have beer just as clear as if you used a secondary.

 

[illnastyimpreza]

So contrary to everything I have been reading, it seems that leaving my beer in primary helps to "age" it better/faster than if I racked to a secondary. What do you guys think ?

do you use a secondary ? Why do you use a secondary ?

Should I use a secondary ??

I usually just leave it in my primary for 3-10 weeks (depending on how low my keg is) ....

I guess autosys or whatever kicks in after 6 months? But I don't think I could ever make it that long without drinking it

what do you guys do ?

 

[ifishsum]

If you're going to skip the secondary you should be leaving it in primary long after any airlock activity has gone away (not that the airlock is a good indication of anything) - like 3 weeks IMO .

The main reason I usually secondary is that I only have one good primary system right now and I'm often anxious to get the next batch going. They still spend 3 weeks before bottling, and I don't want to wait that long between batches.

 

[Bigsnake]

I've been using a secondaries for all my beers and it has worked fine.

I mainly do it to keep my primary fermenters open, but, I've never heard of leaving it in primary vs. going to secondary helping it age faster. I thought secondaries are there to help the beer clarify better.

 

[Brewsmith]

The secondary doesn't let it clear any better than the primary. It's just moving the beer into another vessel to continue clearing. Personally, I've stopped doing secondaries with the exception of dry hopping. I usually just keep the beer in the primary for two weeks or so and then keg it. By the time it's in the keg a couple weeks it's crystal clear.

 

[FiddleTilDeath]

Me and my roommate have a plastic bucket and a glass carboy and we're using both as primary fermenters... I've asked the same question and at least for a good while we're just going to stick to only primary for simplicity's sake.

 

[Brew-boy]

There is no need to do a secondary in my opinion.

 

[Orfy]

I'm sure I've seen this somewhere before.

You only need a secondary ferementer if a secondary fermentation is going to take place.
Other wise the second vessel is generally for conditioning and clearing if needed.

I don't use a secondary vessel for fermenting or conditioning unless there is a reason to do so.
That means at least of 90% of the time I go from the fermenter to the keg.

 

[TexLaw]

I usually rack to a secondary after 10-14 days. I make good beer, and I have not been terribly happy with the product when I don't rack. I am not concerned with autolysis, as those days are pretty much in the past. However, I find that I often get a little more fermentation after racking (i.e., maybe a couple points). That may not be a big deal for carbonation, since I keg. However, I am meticulous about balance, and a couple points can mean a lot. If you bottle, those couple points also can mean the difference between proper carbonation and bottle bombs.

Find your own way.


TL

 

[illnastyimpreza]

I really just don't see the point in a secondary if the yeast bed actually HELPS it age....

 

[Beerthoven]

I've used a secondary on about half my beers. The remaining half I've just left in the primary for 3-4 weeks and then bottled.

Based on this experience, I've adopted a rule similar to that of TexLaw. I leave my beer in primary for a minimum of 2 weeks, and up to 4 weeks for beers that have an OG greater than 1.060. After that I usually rack to a secondary, because I bottle and I get much clearer beer into my bottling bucket when I use a secondary, which in turn means less sediment in my bottles. I can get nice clear beer into bottles without using a secondary, but I have to leave some beer behind in the primary to do so. When I rack from primary to secondary, I'm pretty aggressive about getting out as much beer as I can, which means some trub comes along for the ride as well. This trub settles out nicely in the secondary.

Another benefit to using a secondary, as TexLaw also mentioned, is that it seems to inspire the yeast to consume another gravity point or so. I've noticed that beers I didn't put in secondary seem to gradually increase in carbonation over time, which I really, really hate. I don't have this problem when I secondary. Beer stays in the secondary for 1-3 weeks or so, depending on how soon I get around to bottling.

The benefits of using a secondary are probably more obvious to people who bottle than they are to people who keg. Bottlers see the sediment with every beer they open, and they also have to be more careful about carbonation. As long as I continue to bottle, I'll take the conservative route and use a secondary most of the time.

I do not claim that using a secondary is totally necessary for everyone. There is no clear right or wrong answer here. As long as the beer is left in the primary long enough and proper sanitation and racking proceedures are followed, a secondary does no harm and can make a noticable improvement in the finished beer. Like TexLaw says, each of us must find his own way.

 

[LewBrew]

I am making a pumpkin nutmeg ale and am planing on racking it when the gravity is steady to a secondary carboy. Do I just put the pumpkin in the carboy, add beer and an airlock and let it set for a couple more weeks before bottling? I am putting in 4 cans of pumpkin

 

[AirRageous]

I keep reading that the only sure way to know when to rack to secondary or bottle is to take several daily SG measurments and rack when they stabilize. My primary is an Ale Pail. It seems to me that if I pry the top off to get a sample then reseal it each day for several days, oxygen will, and bad guys may, get into my beer. Is this a good thing to risk? Is there a better set-up to get the SG samples withour risk of contamination? Sorry, but I did not read through all 227 posts in this thread (only 50 or so) to see if this was asked before.

 

[fatinma]

First batch here. I have a New England Porter in a primary ail pale (6.5Gal i believe) and it is nicely fermenting away. I bought the home brew "kit" from a local home brewery store and it contained everything I would need (fermenting bucket, carboy, hydrometer, siphon tubing, bottle capper, thermometer) minus the bottles and large pots.

Here is my question. I have read more than enough on whether or not to transfer to a secondary. If deemed unecessary, does this make my carboy useless since I would do all fermenting in the fermenting bucket? Would it work if I use my glass carboy for the primary fermenting(leave it in long enough to reach FG, plus a few days to sit on the yeast cake and do its thing) and then just use the fermenting as the bucket to mix the priming sugar in with before I bottle?

 

[Orfy]

I'd say if in doubt go to secondary unless you have the experience to judge for yourself. It is unlikely to do your beer any harm. I'd suggest beginners stick to the 123 rule to start with.

 

[LooyvilleLarry]

First batch here. I have a New England Porter in a primary ail pale (6.5Gal i believe) and it is nicely fermenting away

From what I've read in this thread and others is that the secondary is used for threethings: 1) to provide a secondary fermentation when required and 2)to provide clarity 3) freeing up a primary so I have somewhere to put more beer (secondaries are usually 5 gal, primaries 6+ ).

I just brewed a porter myself, and I kind of doubt you'd notice much clearing

You'll use it on a nice Pale ALe or a Belgian blonde to help clear it up a bit, so it isn't going to waste.

 

[fatinma]

From what I've read in this thread and others is that the secondary is used for threethings: 1) to provide a secondary fermentation when required and 2)to provide clarity 3) freeing up a primary so I have somewhere to put more beer (secondaries are usually 5 gal, primaries 6+ ).

I just brewed a porter myself, and I kind of doubt you'd notice much clearing

You'll use it on a nice Pale ALe or a Belgian blonde to help clear it up a bit, so it isn't going to waste.

Is it ok to use a carboy as the primary and then just siphon the beer into the bucket when I add the priming sugar before bottling?

 

[Throckmorton]

I have read more than enough on whether or not to transfer to a secondary. If deemed unecessary, does this make my carboy useless since I would do all fermenting in the fermenting bucket? Would it work if I use my glass carboy for the primary fermenting(leave it in long enough to reach FG, plus a few days to sit on the yeast cake and do its thing) and then just use the fermenting as the bucket to mix the priming sugar in with before I bottle?

It doesn't render your carboy useless. If your glass carboy is only 5 gallons, you don't want to primary ferment there because there isn't enough room for the krausen (foam). You can leave your beer in the plastic bucket for up to a month. If you can't get around to bottling it by then, you would want to rack it off to the secondary for long term storage. You could also brew another batch at that point if you want. Once the beer is racked off the yeast, you could even pitch a new batch right on top.

Right now, my glass carboy is home to a batch of Ed Wort's Apfelwein. I have 3 other 6.5 buckets, one of which has a Pale Ale fermenting. I'm thinking of brewing another in the next week or so, but can't use the third bucket, as you still need an open one for bottling (haven't got into the keg systems yet).

 

[fatinma]

It doesn't render your carboy useless. If your glass carboy is only 5 gallons, you don't want to primary ferment there because there isn't enough room for the krausen (foam). You can leave your beer in the plastic bucket for up to a month. If you can't get around to bottling it by then, you would want to rack it off to the secondary for long term storage. You could also brew another batch at that point if you want. Once the beer is racked off the yeast, you could even pitch a new batch right on top.

Right now, my glass carboy is home to a batch of Ed Wort's Apfelwein. I have 3 other 6.5 buckets, one of which has a Pale Ale fermenting. I'm thinking of brewing another in the next week or so, but can't use the third bucket, as you still need an open one for bottling (haven't got into the keg systems yet).

Thanks. I didn't think about the size of the carboy and the need for extra space. Off to go find a good place to buy the ingrediants for my next batch!

 

[cstrub]

This should maybe go in a new thread but seems somewhat related. If I've racked to secondary and am ready for bottling, is there much to be gained by going into the bottling bucket vs. going straight from the secondary into the bottles?

In the bottle, am I better to condition in a fridge or at room temp?

 

[illnastyimpreza]

This should maybe go in a new thread but seems somewhat related. If I've racked to secondary and am ready for bottling, is there much to be gained by going into the bottling bucket vs. going straight from the secondary into the bottles?

In the bottle, am I better to condition in a fridge or at room temp?

when you rack to the bottling bucket you leave behind all the trub and bull**** on the bottom of the primary.

 

[Orfy]

This should maybe go in a new thread but seems somewhat related. If I've racked to secondary and am ready for bottling, is there much to be gained by going into the bottling bucket vs. going straight from the secondary into the bottles?

In the bottle, am I better to condition in a fridge or at room temp?

When you say condition do you mean after it's fully carbed?

 

[cstrub]

No, I meant right away after I fill the bottles and add the carb tabs.

 

[JoeMama]

I think the only reason you would go from the 2ndary to the bottling bucket is to combine your (priming agent) and completely fermented/cleared beer to help with the carbonation of the beer (from there you bottle it and let it condition) Correct?

I too am a noob but I am passing on what I have been gathering from reading this great forum.
-Me

 

[bull8042]

I think the only reason you would go from the 2ndary to the bottling bucket is to combine your (priming agent) and completely fermented/cleared beer to help with the carbonation of the beer (from there you bottle it and let it condition) Correct?

I too am a noob but I am passing on what I have been gathering from reading this great forum.
-Me

n00b or not, you are exactly correct. And also to reap the benefits of having a spigot on the bottling bucket which are not present on carboys and to rack off of any trub that has settled while in secondary.