What is the Real Benefit of a Plate Chiller?

[barhoc11]

I am going back and forth with my decision to get a plate chiller or not. I currently have a copper immersion chiller that works pretty quickly for my 5 gallon batches. With using hose water and then ice water, I can get my wort down to pitching temps in about 15 minutes.

I am trying to streamline my brew day and avoid needing ice each time I chill my wort so I am looking at plate chillers but everything I read about them make me think me think this is going to only complicate and add time to my brewing process.

The main issue, and the one that I think causes all my woes, I see with getting a plate chiller is the fact that I will need to use a hop spider for every brew now to remove the hop particles that will clog up a plate chiller. I have a spider and stopped using it due to less than desirable tastes, probably caused by less hop utilization. My secondary issue is that the plate chiller has a lot more maintenance associated with it, sanitizing before and after use.

I guess at this point I am wondering if it's worth it, since it is only seeming to add more complication to my brewing process and not saving me time, if any.

Anyone have first hand experience with this transition?

 

[popgunandy]

I don't have plate chiller experience, largely because I see the same concerns you do. But two thoughts come to mind:

1. Stop using ice. I take 20-25 minutes to chill without it using an immersion chiller. Than extra ten minutes is worth avoiding ice.

2. Step up to a bigger immersion chiller (sell the one you have to offset some of the cost). You'll gain the time advantage you seek without changing tactics.

cheers

 

[barhoc11]

I don't have plate chiller experience, largely because I see the same concerns you do. But two thoughts come to mind:

1. Stop using ice. I take 20-25 minutes to chill without it using an immersion chiller. Than extra ten minutes is worth avoiding ice.

2. Step up to a bigger immersion chiller (sell the one you have to offset some of the cost). You'll gain the time advantage you seek without changing tactics.

cheers

Thanks but I see the trade off in time using ice as worth it to avoid taking longer and using more water. I can get away with a small bag of ice that costs $2 or use my own ice if I remember to collect it beforehand.

I always thought plate chillers were the "holy grail" to reduce my time spent cooling down my wort but it looks like they are just another complication.

My immersion chiller is already good sized, I made it so it isn't the tiny ones they sell for cheap. I don't really think there is a bigger option and the performance would be marginal.

Like I said, if I can chill down a 5 gallon batch in 15 - 20 minutes using hose water and ice, that seems to be quicker than using a plate chiller and having to deal with clogging, sanitizing, etc.

I guess the only benefit I see is using less water and not needing ice?

 

[douglasbarbin]

The plate chiller definitely chills faster. No doubt about that. Mine would chill 5 gallons in 5 minutes or less. However, I came to the realization that it effectively slowed down my brew day because of the required cleaning time. I eventually got sick of cleaning the plate chiller and went back to a 50' x 1/2" immersion chiller, which seems to be a good compromise in terms of chilling effectiveness versus cleaning time. Plus, it does double - duty as a HERMS coil.

 

[Roadie]

If your current process works then maybe it's not worth your bother.

We use a Duda Diesel B3-36A-40 plate chiller. We've always used this so I have no personal experience with any other type of chiller.

We have a filter in-line before the chiller. We've used a hop spider for a year now and prior to that used large tea infusers for the hop additions. Until the hop spider on almost every IPA the filter would clog and being that it was hot was a b|tch to clear and finish getting the wort to the fermenter. Since the addition of the hop spider we no longer have any issues with hop trub clogging the filter and luckily have not noticed a change in flavor of the beer. If you can't use a hop spider and use a lot of hops in the boil then I'm not sure it's worth the time savings for you.

The hop spider issue aside the chiller does a great job of getting the beer to pitching temps quickly. We typically whirlpool for 20 minutes or so therefore we're not going from 212 directly to the chiller but even on lower hopped beers when we do go from the BK to the chiller we do ONE pass and are done, no recirculating required. In the winter we really have to be careful not to over chill. We're in KS, if you're in FL and brewing in the summer then YMMV, but I see you're in MI so you should have a similar experience to ours.

We've never had an infected batch and do not sanitize after use. We backflow water through for a few minutes until it comes out clear then tilt to drain/dry. Prior to use we soak the (clean) chiller in a tub of starsan and then tilt to drain. After every 4-6 batches I run 180 PBW through it. I've been following this routine for 2 years without an issue. I do wish I'd have bought the chiller with NPT fittings and not hose barbs but we work around that and have very small pieces of hose connected to the barbs with cam lock fittings on them to match the rest of our system.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

The advantage of a plate chiller greatly increases with batch size. I chill inline to the fermenter. On a 15 gallon batch I can be racked into the fermenter in about 6-7 minutes. The wort is within a couple degrees of my hose water temp. Since I live in the desert that is pretty warm this time of year. I don't worry about it because my glycol drops the temp very rapidly to pitching temperatures.

Cleaning isn't hard. I hook it up to my wort pump, set the tank at 140°f and then let it run with pbw for 45 minutes or so while I do other stuff. When it is done I flush it with potable water and let it air dry.

 

[Bobby_M]

Every chiller has its pros and cons of course. I've been using a plate chiller for several years and the cleaning is very routine since I'm already pumping cleaning solution through my lines and pump anyway. The only extra thing I do is backflush with higher pressure water after. I think the value of an external exchanger (tube in tube CFCs apply as well) increases as you scale up to larger batches. Once you get over 10 gallons, immersion chillers are impractical.

One thing that no chiller can do is chill cooler than the water temp. If your tap is 75F and you want the wort 65F, you will need ice no matter what chiller you have.

 

[Dangeruss]

I prefer plate chiller. There a few variables that are missing to help answer your question effectively but I will try my best. I'll assume you have a ball valve to drain the wort but if not you can drill a whole and put one on but you have to change your brewing do to the loss left on the bottom of the drain. If it is a barbed end at the outlet you can get a vinyl hose that will take the heat of the boiled wort to go into the inland wort portion. Then on the wort outlet I have another heat resistant vinyl hose with a temperature gauge. You could still use the ice method in fact with my immersion I use a block of ice about a gallon of water a utility pump in a 20 gallon tote and recirculating it back and works in about 15-25 minutes. There is an attachment you can get to hook garden hose on one side and the other will go on the wort out to back flush it. Of course all this equipment adds up but saves time and more consistent beers. I use hop bags so I use the back flow wash to cool down the bags and to rinse my boil kettle. Hope this helps out on what you could do.

 

[Owly055]

Personally I would like to have a counterflow chiller, but would never even consider a plate chiller unless it was one that could be disassembled like the commercial ones. Plate chillers cannot truly be fully cleaned. There are numerous nooks and crannies which cannot really be flushed, and they will accumulate particles that cannot be fully flushed out.

I speak from real world experience with oil coolers on diesel engines which are exactly the same construction as plate chillers used in brewing. I've cut quite a few of these apart over the years as I frequently replace them when doing a rebuild. In every single case, the dead spaces have an accumulation of particulate matter.

I'm sure there are those who will disagree with me, and point out the fact that you can "sanitize"........ and their experience with them has been good. A good valid argument, but I am far from convinced. It does not change the fact that particulate will accumulate in the dead spaces...... and I cannot accept that.

In contrast, there is the counterflow chiller design where you can remove hoses and visually inspect the interior, and can easily clean every part of it. Even the coiled types offer a straight through path that can be completely flushed, and you could in theory at least pull or push a swab through the whole length if you feel the need. There are NO dead spaces in a counterflow chiller.

Plate chillers are compact and easy to deal with, easy and inexpensive to ship. They are efficient in terms of cooling power as related to size. I've watched the cleaning of the large commercial one, which convinced me that the ONLY plate chiller I would ever consider would be one that could be dismantled quickly and easily for cleaning. I saw how much trub settled in the dead spaces............ Plate chillers aren't for me.


H.W.

 

[barhoc11]

Thanks everyone, I think I am going to continue using my immersion chiller since it sounds like it is actually quicker for me to use than everything that comes with a plate chiller.

 

[vincentAlpha]

If you are looking for better cooling power I'd recommend a CF chiller (even more so since you already have the copper), cleaning that is muuuuuch easier than a plate chiller (mine gets cleaned just by running some water then star-san through, all gravity fed), not sure how they compare time wise to a plate chiller since I just gravity feed mine rather than whirlpool/pump. One thing I like is not having to worry about it getting plugged, the line isn't huge but I've not plugged it yet and I even run hop gunk through it. Though if the immersion works then keep at it unless you like to tinker.

 

[barhoc11]

If you are looking for better cooling power I'd recommend a CF chiller (even more so since you already have the copper), cleaning that is muuuuuch easier than a plate chiller (mine gets cleaned just by running some water then star-san through, all gravity fed), not sure how they compare time wise to a plate chiller since I just gravity feed mine rather than whirlpool/pump. One thing I like is not having to worry about it getting plugged, the line isn't huge but I've not plugged it yet and I even run hop gunk through it. Though if the immersion works then keep at it unless you like to tinker.

I am sure a CFC is faster but how much faster? Is it worth the additional cleaning that has to be done? I guess I am at the point where the benefits are just not worth it to change my method. I am getting a pump so I was hoping I could take advantage of a plate chiller but hadn't really looked into it too much. I can see a CFC and PC being better for larger batches but I am not at that point consistently.

 

[Natdavis777]

My plate chiller is mounted on my stand, and I can get 10 gallons of wort to pitching temp within 15 min in the summer, and 10 min or less in the winter. Sanitizing is basically running boiling wort through it at the end of the boil. After the wort is transferred, I already have my MT filled with PBW solution, so I transfer that solution though my pumps, chiller, and BK for cleaning. I second a hop spider with plate chillers, as I was getting a lot of hop particulate in my chiller before I picked up my spider.

I have never used one, but I know a lot of people advocate CFCs, so that may also be a viable option.

 

[vincentAlpha]

I am sure a CFC is faster but how much faster? Is it worth the additional cleaning that has to be done? I guess I am at the point where the benefits are just not worth it to change my method. I am getting a pump so I was hoping I could take advantage of a plate chiller but hadn't really looked into it too much. I can see a CFC and PC being better for larger batches but I am not at that point consistently.

Hmm, well as for speed my 25' CFC needs only a single pass to get from boiling to pitching (and if I'm not careful, cooler than pitching) which for me results in one heck of a cold break. That being said since I use gravity and not a pump I'd say it is somewhere between 5-10 minutes for a 5 gallon batch and the cleaning probably less than 5 since I rinse out the kettle with the coolant and let it run out the chiller then grab a funnel and run a few cups of star-san through the chiller alone. Once it is drained the chiller is good to go for next time. Both cooling and cleaning would probably be faster with a pump but I stovetop brew and don't want to be dealing with yet another thing in the kitchen if I don't have to.

At the end of the day it comes down to what is easier for you, I didn't want to have to be bothered with agitating the wort to chill and didn't want my chiller's size to be restricted by the kettle size so I decided to go the extra bit to build a CF chiller. But like I said before, if you've got a system that works and don't like to tinker then sticking with what you have is easiest.

 

[Cyclman]

I have a 50' 1/2" immersion chiller, circulate while chilling with a pump, and for lagers, add a pre-chiller in a bucket of ice. I get great cold break and chilling in no longer than 15 minutes. Of course, in CO we have pretty cold hose water.

I like to have a chiller and equipment where I can see / inspect parts for cleanliness.

 

[barhoc11]

Hmm, well as for speed my 25' CFC needs only a single pass to get from boiling to pitching (and if I'm not careful, cooler than pitching) which for me results in one heck of a cold break. That being said since I use gravity and not a pump I'd say it is somewhere between 5-10 minutes for a 5 gallon batch and the cleaning probably less than 5 since I rinse out the kettle with the coolant and let it run out the chiller then grab a funnel and run a few cups of star-san through the chiller alone. Once it is drained the chiller is good to go for next time. Both cooling and cleaning would probably be faster with a pump but I stovetop brew and don't want to be dealing with yet another thing in the kitchen if I don't have to.

At the end of the day it comes down to what is easier for you, I didn't want to have to be bothered with agitating the wort to chill and didn't want my chiller's size to be restricted by the kettle size so I decided to go the extra bit to build a CF chiller. But like I said before, if you've got a system that works and don't like to tinker then sticking with what you have is easiest.

So do you have to use a hop spider with your CFC? My main concern is ruining my brew day by getting a plate chiller clogged up and that is the reason I am not buying a place chiller. I like being able to throw my IC into the boiling wort at 15 minutes and then just hook it up to the hose and then pump to get ice cooled water through it. I also use the IC as a whirlpool to get the hops into the center, then drain into my carboy with no issues. Even if I save time with a CFC or plate chiller, I lose more time and ultimately money to sanitation time and product.

 

[govner1]

Hmm, well as for speed my 25' CFC needs only a single pass to get from boiling to pitching (and if I'm not careful, cooler than pitching) which for me results in one heck of a cold break. That being said since I use gravity and not a pump I'd say it is somewhere between 5-10 minutes for a 5 gallon batch and the cleaning probably less than 5 since I rinse out the kettle with the coolant and let it run out the chiller then grab a funnel and run a few cups of star-san through the chiller alone. Once it is drained the chiller is good to go for next time. Both cooling and cleaning would probably be faster with a pump but I stovetop brew and don't want to be dealing with yet another thing in the kitchen if I don't have to.



At the end of the day it comes down to what is easier for you, I didn't want to have to be bothered with agitating the wort to chill and didn't want my chiller's size to be restricted by the kettle size so I decided to go the extra bit to build a CF chiller. But like I said before, if you've got a system that works and don't like to tinker then sticking with what you have is easiest.

This^^^^- a CFC is very efficient & cleaning is easy, especially when compared to a plate chiller.
In the summer you'll need to use a submersible pump and an ice water bath to get better chilling. I live in Metro Atlanta so the ground water is pretty warm this time of the year. I chill/whirlpool as much as possible w/ ground water then switch over to ice water.
I did a 6 gal batch today and it took about 20-25 min to chill.

 

[barhoc11]

This^^^^- a CFC is very efficient & cleaning is easy, especially when compared to a plate chiller.
In the summer you'll need to use a submersible pump and an ice water bath to get better chilling. I live in Metro Atlanta so the ground water is pretty warm this time of the year. I chill/whirlpool as much as possible w/ ground water then switch over to ice water.
I did a 6 gal batch today and it took about 20-25 min to chill.

Thanks, it takes me less time for a 5.5 gallon bath using my IC so I am going to stick it out. It sounds like most people like the method they started out with and are used to.

 

[vincentAlpha]

I just chuck in the hop pellets, no spider or anything to keep it contained. I'll start a small whirlpool just with my spoon to somewhat gather up the gunk and then when the kettle gets close to empty if I've added a lot of hops I'll use the back of the spoon to keep the gunk from the port but I've also not done that and still had no issues with blockages. I've never used a plate chiller but from what I hear, what I do would pretty much block one right away haha.

 

[Bellybuster]

for what it's worth, I started with an immersion chiller, then bought a plate chiller (shirron) and am now at a CFC. The CFC wins hands down for me.
Takes no longer than the plate chiller and never gets clogged. Uses a slight bit more water though.
A clogged plate chiller really sucks bad

 

[barhoc11]

This^^^^- a CFC is very efficient & cleaning is easy, especially when compared to a plate chiller.
In the summer you'll need to use a submersible pump and an ice water bath to get better chilling. I live in Metro Atlanta so the ground water is pretty warm this time of the year. I chill/whirlpool as much as possible w/ ground water then switch over to ice water.
I did a 6 gal batch today and it took about 20-25 min to chill.

Thanks, it takes me less time for a 5.5 gallon bath using my IC so I am going to stick it out. It sounds like most people like the method they started out with and are used to.

 

[uatuba]

Can you use gravity with a plate chiller? I quit using mine because I got tired of the damn pump and the hassles that come with a setup that is completely torn down after each brew day.

 

[ChelisHubby]

Friday the 3rd of july water from my tap was 76 degrees I see ice as a nessacity as I need sub 70 to be comfy to pitch yeast. my cheap immersion cooler got me to 95 but that was after 20 gallons I used ice to get to70 which to 20 minutes and a alb bag of ice. I don't see a Plate chiller in my future even if I go to 10 gallon batches.

 

[Bellybuster]

There is also the no chill method, no chiller needed at all

 

[DrunkleJon]

You said it takes you 15-20 minutes to chill with your IC? Thats plenty quick in my opinion. It takes me a bit longer than that and my beer comes out tasting great, I get a solid cold crash, no clogging and my final product beer is clear as can be. True you probably use more water to chill, but I find that I can use the wastewater to clean up and rinse my brewing equipment so its not all a loss.

I have pondered CFCs and Plate Chillers, but only see them as being feasible when you have pumps set up in your system.

 

[barhoc11]

You said it takes you 15-20 minutes to chill with your IC? Thats plenty quick in my opinion. It takes me a bit longer than that and my beer comes out tasting great, I get a solid cold crash, no clogging and my final product beer is clear as can be. True you probably use more water to chill, but I find that I can use the wastewater to clean up and rinse my brewing equipment so its not all a loss.

I have pondered CFCs and Plate Chillers, but only see them as being feasible when you have pumps set up in your system.

Yeah, 15 - 20 minutes and most of that is using tap water to get the temp down to around 80F and then I will add ice and pump it through the IC. I do get a solid cold break using this method and no risk for clogging or higher risk for infection. I am getting a pump but I still think I am going to pass on the PC, having a pump doesn't really add much to the equation when it comes to PCs.

 

[Homercidal]

I have only used my CFC. It works. It's fast enough.

But I want to trade it for a more efficient, easier to clean Immersion Chiller.

I believe a person can build a 2-pipe IC for very cheap that can perform better than the average CFC and requires very little in cleaning and maintenance. I know Jaded Brewing makes a few models using multiple tubes. This kind of design is, in effect, like having 2-3 chillers running at the same time. The length is shorter, so the water doesn't warm up as much halfway through. It has more cold surface area than a longer single tube chiller.

And clean up is simply rinsing off with hot water (collect a bit that first comes out of the chiller) and let it dry. With a CFC you can't see how nasty it is in there, and it's a PITA to clean inside too. I once used my diptube brush inside my CFC and was amazed at the amount of blackish gunk that came out when I was sure I was rinsing well enough after each brew. Since my brush was not long enough to reach the middle from both ends, I am sure there is still some gunk in there.

Now, with a pump, I can sanitize it during the last few minutes of the boil, just as I would with an IC, but I'd still like to be able to SEE how clean it is, AND get improved performance from a multi-tube IC.

Plate Chillers are great for pro brewers where using an IC would be impractical with their equipment and the batch size. CFCs are efficient too, but in my experience still leave a bit to be desired.

 

[Bellybuster]

I've seen inside my CFC with a dewalt borescope. Clean as a whistle with a hot water rinse and a run of oxyclean. Looks like a shiny new penny.

Just for interest, you still get good cold break without chilling at all.

 

[starsman20]

One thing I do not see in this discussion is cold break. I am using an IC and whirlpool to cool and to leave most of my cold break in the BK. I always use a hop spider (I have found that I have to increase my hop additions slightly from when I did not use it but it keeps the kettle clean) I have considered a plate chiller many times and haven't moved on it thinking the cold break ends up in the fermenter, unless you recirc it back into the BK. Anyone have thoughts on cold break getting stuck in the Plate chiller or ending up in the fermenter? Does it matter at all?

 

[Natdavis777]

One thing I do not see in this discussion is cold break. I am using an IC and whirlpool to cool and to leave most of my cold break in the BK. I always use a hop spider (I have found that I have to increase my hop additions slightly from when I did not use it but it keeps the kettle clean) I have considered a plate chiller many times and haven't moved on it thinking the cold break ends up in the fermenter, unless you recirc it back into the BK. Anyone have thoughts on cold break getting stuck in the Plate chiller or ending up in the fermenter? Does it matter at all?

I thought about this as well when I first switched from an IC to a plate chiller. When I would do a single pass, it ended up in the fermentor (though I dont care if its in there or not). I now recirculate the whole batch though the plate chiller and through the whirlpool port until my output (not entire batch temp) is below 70F. I then shut off the pump, let the wort settle for 10 min, and slowly runoff into the carboys. This allows me to runoff clear wort and leave a nice cone in the BK

 

[starsman20]

I think if I get a plate chiller (likely now) that I will follow that method and still whirlpool, I just put in a glycol chiller with a 10 gallon reservoir. I think I can get a 10 gallon batch down in less than 10 minutes.

 

[IslandLizard]

+1^ Pretty much all covered here.

I use a 30-plate plate chiller and pump to recirculate back into the kettle, until around 90-110F, then single pass directly to the fermentor, with ice water if needed. A hop basket, spider, hop bags, or a very large size mesh filter on the bottom (a la hop taco) or a combination of those are needed to keep hop debris out of the chiller. The fine dust that makes it out of the spider and hop bags doesn't clog the chiller. Neither does cold break.

Oven sterilization:
After backwashing with hot water, back and forth until clean, the plate chiller gets Starsaned, drained, shaken as dry as possible, and put away. Every few brews or when I deem needed, I stick it in the oven anywhere between 250-450 for a few hours, usually with the bread or pizza.

If you want to whirlpool with the pump, bypass the chiller, it has too much resistance. But I do run boiling wort through it first for 5 minutes to sanitize, just in case.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I think if I get a plate chiller (likely now) that I will follow that method and still whirlpool, I just put in a glycol chiller with a 10 gallon reservoir. I think I can get a 10 gallon batch down in less than 10 minutes.

What is the glycol going to cool? I don't bother hitting pitch temps with my plate chiller inline to the FV because the glycol drops the wort to pitching in less than 20 minutes. I'm dealing with 15-20 gallons of wort in the FV.

 

[normonster]

I think if I get a plate chiller (likely now) that I will follow that method and still whirlpool, I just put in a glycol chiller with a 10 gallon reservoir. I think I can get a 10 gallon batch down in less than 10 minutes.

I've been cooling the entire kettle by recircing back form the therminator. That along with a false bottom and bazooka screen keep my trub in the kettle 100%.

I just built a tee/thermo combo though so I'll start doing like the guys above now that I Know the temp exiting the chiller.

 

[Mcbobs]

This is all really good information to consider. I currently use a IC, but I still think that with the addition of my new brewstand, I'll probably upgrade to a plate chiller. I realize that they may take more to keep clean and not have to worry about plugging up, but that is something that I'm pretty anal about to begin with and I don't think it will become an issue. Good topic!

 

[Mcbobs]

I have only used my CFC. It works. It's fast enough.

But I want to trade it for a more efficient, easier to clean Immersion Chiller.

I believe a person can build a 2-pipe IC for very cheap that can perform better than the average CFC and requires very little in cleaning and maintenance. I know Jaded Brewing makes a few models using multiple tubes. This kind of design is, in effect, like having 2-3 chillers running at the same time. The length is shorter, so the water doesn't warm up as much halfway through. It has more cold surface area than a longer single tube chiller.

And clean up is simply rinsing off with hot water (collect a bit that first comes out of the chiller) and let it dry. With a CFC you can't see how nasty it is in there, and it's a PITA to clean inside too. I once used my diptube brush inside my CFC and was amazed at the amount of blackish gunk that came out when I was sure I was rinsing well enough after each brew. Since my brush was not long enough to reach the middle from both ends, I am sure there is still some gunk in there.

Now, with a pump, I can sanitize it during the last few minutes of the boil, just as I would with an IC, but I'd still like to be able to SEE how clean it is, AND get improved performance from a multi-tube IC.

Plate Chillers are great for pro brewers where using an IC would be impractical with their equipment and the batch size. CFCs are efficient too, but in my experience still leave a bit to be desired.

Homercidal - I just saw this counterflow chiller looking at different chilling methods and it made me think of you. It seems to solve every problem you don't like with your CFC and still offer super fast chilling.

http://jadedbrewing.com/collections/counterflow-chillers/products/the-jaded-cfc

 

[starsman20]

What is the glycol going to cool? I don't bother hitting pitch temps with my plate chiller inline to the FV because the glycol drops the wort to pitching in less than 20 minutes. I'm dealing with 15-20 gallons of wort in the FV.

I was going to run the glycol through the water side of the plate chiller, or at least run a coil throught the glycol tank to chill the water to as cold as I can get it. In the summer especially my groundwater can be over 70.

I do not have the GC plumbed to my fermenters yet, that is an upcoming project.

 

[logdrum]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1441037327.500912.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1441037347.840913.jpg
Here's a dual concentric IC I made from 50' of 1/2" copper (that I got on sale @ HD for $16!) Great cooling time/water use.

 

[Vaureywwc]

Not sure if this has been said or not but be careful with plate chillers. If you are unable to take them apart eventually you will get off flavors no matter how much acid, bases and water you back flush through them

 

[day_trippr]

Best as I can recall, nobody has said that before.

Like, ever.

So....

Cheers!