What is "Alt" beer

Yakima 728
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I brewed this up again last week. Took a sample from the Unitank last night, and BOOM, it's gonna be a good one. I toned down the roast a lot. It's barely noticeable. I get a touch of milk chocolate coming through, which I know isn't supposed to be in a traditional Altbier, but I like it! I'll be kegging next week, so I'll try to report back.
 
wepeeler said:
I brewed this up again last week. Took a sample from the Unitank last night, and BOOM, it's gonna be a good one. I toned down the roast a lot. It's barely noticeable. I get a touch of milk chocolate coming through, which I know isn't supposed to be in a traditional Altbier, but I like it! I'll be kegging next week, so I'll try to report back.
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Sounds tasty!
 
wepeeler said:
I brewed this up again last week. Took a sample from the Unitank last night, and BOOM, it's gonna be a good one. I toned down the roast a lot. It's barely noticeable. I get a touch of milk chocolate coming through, which I know isn't supposed to be in a traditional Altbier, but I like it! I'll be kegging next week, so I'll try to report back.
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I usually back off "dry roast" a little when using traditional altbier recipes, as a personal preference. But that "dry but slightly roasty" flavor that makes the style just so darned appealing.
 
Miraculix said:
I've never had one here in Germany that had the slightest hint of roast.
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I have never been to Germany but my understanding is that it should taste like a dry and toasty lager with decent bitterness. I might describe it as a Marzen but with more Munich malt and a little more bittering hops.
 
dmtaylor said:
I have never been to Germany but my understanding is that it should taste like a dry and toasty lager with decent bitterness. I might describe it as a Marzen but with more Munich malt and a little more bittering hops.
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That's a misunderstanding. There's no toasty. It's basically a darker pilsner with the slightest hint of fruitiness from the yeast. Not much malt at all.
 
Miraculix said:
I've never had one here in Germany that had the slightest hint of roast.
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Roast and chocolate are no no's in the BJCP guidelines. The first one I ever had about 20 years ago was actually an American take on an Altbier. So I really didn't have anything to go by when I started brewing. I emailed that brewery my recipe and they got back to me saying I was reasonably close with my recipe. BUT, I never even looked into the traditional style until maybe 6 months ago. Didn't realize I was chasing something way off.

The guy I brew with loves roast, so this recipe was a slight reflection of his influence. From my scoresheets posted above, judged by a master cicerone, the roast put the beer out of style. But he also said he'd gladly have another pint. So, I didn't brew a traditional Altbier, but I've modified this recipe to get closer to the style. I detect zero roast as of now :) I'll keg next week!
 
wepeeler said:
Roast and chocolate are no no's in the BJCP guidelines. The first one I ever had about 20 years ago was actually an American take on an Altbier. So I really didn't have anything to go by when I started brewing. I emailed that brewery my recipe and they got back to me saying I was reasonably close with my recipe. BUT, I never even looked into the traditional style until maybe 6 months ago. Didn't realize I was chasing something way off.

The guy I brew with loves roast, so this recipe was a slight reflection of his influence. From my scoresheets posted above, judged by a master cicerone, the roast put the beer out of style. But he also said he'd gladly have another pint. So, I didn't brew a traditional Altbier, but I've modified this recipe to get closer to the style. I detect zero roast as of now :) I'll keg next week!
Click to expand...
I personally don't care much about styles, I brew according to my own preferences 95% of the times I brew. So if it suits my taste, it's a win, no matter what's inside! I just don't call it something that it is not, but otherwise I'm all for brewing what one personally likes best.

If I do care about the style, there are many places I would be looking at to get a feel about the style I'm trying to emulate but bjcp is none of them.

Best would be to get your hands on some good examples and talk to people from that specific country (and in this case area of the country) who are into beer.
 
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Miraculix said:
I personally don't care much about styles, I brew according to my own preferences 95% of the times I brew. So if it suits my taste, it's a win, no matter what's inside! I just don't call it something that it is not, but otherwise I'm all for being what one personally likes best.

If I do care about the style, there are many places I would be looking at to get a feel about the style I'm trying to emulate but bjcp is none of them.

Best would be to get your hands on some good examples and talk to people from that specific country (and in this case area of the country) who are into beer.
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I agree with all that, but I don't know anyone in Germany. Wanna ship me some good examples of local Altbier? I'm willing to pay!
 
It can be very difficult to find a true to style alt here in the US. A brewery in Baltimore (Union) used to make an alt but I’m not sure if they do anymore. When I went to Düsseldorf I brought some Schumacher and zum Schlüssel back and did a side by side with the Union. I was surprised at how close to the Schumacher the Union was. The other alt I had that was very close and representative was from a small brewery in Ontario, Kilannan. They closed for a few years but are thankfully back in action.
 
Yeah, when I first got into brewing I had fallen in love with Juneau's Alaskan Amber, which was noted in the actual guidelines as example of style for Altbier. It's really much more an American Amber Ale I think, but I'm no bjcp judge. Anyway, while there were clone recipes out there, I kept "tweaking" to get what @Miraculix does, and produce what I like which was much drier than the clone recipes (with up to 2# C20/60 in 5gal) and I ended on something with (shamefully) Maris Otter base, some dark Munich and some medium crystal. I've been told by many it ain't no altbier, but WY1007 makes it something that is well-enjoyed by many. Maybe it's a dark English Mild. Maybe it's just a "Joseph made what he wanted and people like it" style. Someday maybe I will make it to Dusseldorf and try a real one.
 
wepeeler said:
I agree with all that, but I don't know anyone in Germany. Wanna ship me some good examples of local Altbier? I'm willing to pay!
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I honestly have no idea what a good example of an alt is. I'm not from Düsseldorf or even close to that region so I only drank whatever alt crossed my way "by accident". I only know what these had in common but I couldn't name a prime example of an alt. It is a highly regional thing and I'm from the other side of Germany.
 
Miraculix said:
I honestly have no idea what a good example of an alt is. I'm not from Düsseldorf or even close to that region so I only drank whatever alt crossed my way "by accident". I only know what these had in common but I couldn't name a prime example of an alt. It is a highly regional thing and I'm from the other side of Germany.
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And what of the "Norther German Altbier" style?
 
balrog said:
Like Kolsch?
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Kind of. I just had a quick read regarding that topic and it seems that alt is a bit more open than Kölsch. I am not completely into that topic but there is a EU thing going on which is supposed to narrow it down further, the same way as Kölsch already is protected.
 
Miraculix said:
Kind of. I just had a quick read regarding that topic and it seems that alt is a bit more open than Kölsch. I am not completely into that topic but there is a EU thing going on which is supposed to narrow it down further, the same way as Kölsch already is protected.
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Great. I'm gonna come up with a Stiefel style then, and it can only be made in my garage.
 
balrog said:
1:44 from me in W. Ma.

Hm...but sorta on the way to BIL in Syracuse....hmmmmm.....
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If you’re not familiar with Suarez you need to check it out. He helped Shawn Hill start Hill farmstead and is the main reason they produce good lager and wilds. Dan opened up his own space in his wife’s hometown right outside Hudson, NY. Amazing beers
 
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Dgallo said:
Drive to saurez brewing. It’s probably 1 - 1.5 hours from you. They have quite the authentic alt for an American brewery
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I've heard great things about them but they usually only have 1 or 2 beers on tap at time though. Am I wrong?
 
wepeeler said:
I've heard great things about them but they usually only have 1 or 2 beers on tap at time though. Am I wrong?
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I haven’t physically been there in probably 3 years (I have a bottle shop by me that carries them) but I don’t believe that was the case.

I just saw what you’re saying on their page. They have blown up, so maybe it’s due to that and they are trying to cycle folks through the taproom faster. They have 4 or 5 can options and probably 6-10 bottle choices usually or at least they used to lol
 
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Is it time for me to repeat what I said in #348 last year?
But now thanks to the miracle of the Internet, you don't have to rely on the (very) distorted Chinese-whisper versions of US brewers, you can see what Germans think is required, the likes of Piendl and Narziss (two of the greatest German brewing scientists, both professors at Weihenstephan for many years) - an average of 1.047 OG, 80% attenuation and 34 EBC colour, Dusseldorf excluding Uerig around 30 IBU and Munster going down as low as 12 IBU. Grist is simple, just pilsner and a bit (say 10%) of Munich, no crystal but a bit of caramel or black malt for colour. And that's it.
 
Northern_Brewer said:
Is it time for me to repeat what I said in #348 last year?
But now thanks to the miracle of the Internet, you don't have to rely on the (very) distorted Chinese-whisper versions of US brewers, you can see what Germans think is required, the likes of Piendl and Narziss (two of the greatest German brewing scientists, both professors at Weihenstephan for many years) - an average of 1.047 OG, 80% attenuation and 34 EBC colour, Dusseldorf excluding Uerig around 30 IBU and Munster going down as low as 12 IBU. Grist is simple, just pilsner and a bit (say 10%) of Munich, no crystal but a bit of caramel or black malt for colour. And that's it.
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Thank you.
Again.
 
Miraculix said:
That's a misunderstanding. There's no toasty. It's basically a darker pilsner with the slightest hint of fruitiness from the yeast. Not much malt at all.
Click to expand...

If you take a look at the old brewing records of Zum Uerige:
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2014/11/lets-brew-wednesday-zum-uerige-alt.html
I fail to see how they can reach the required "copper color", even with decoction, without Sinamar which is derived from malt so it can be legal. To get that color would require copious amounts of Caramunich, which would render it sweet and roasted malts.. Thoughts?
 
Northern_Brewer said:
Is it time for me to repeat what I said in #348 last year?
But now thanks to the miracle of the Internet, you don't have to rely on the (very) distorted Chinese-whisper versions of US brewers, you can see what Germans think is required, the likes of Piendl and Narziss (two of the greatest German brewing scientists, both professors at Weihenstephan for many years) - an average of 1.047 OG, 80% attenuation and 34 EBC colour, Dusseldorf excluding Uerig around 30 IBU and Munster going down as low as 12 IBU. Grist is simple, just pilsner and a bit (say 10%) of Munich, no crystal but a bit of caramel or black malt for colour. And that's it.
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CaraMunich?
 
AmarikinBrew said:
If you take a look at the old brewing records of Zum Uerige:
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2014/11/lets-brew-wednesday-zum-uerige-alt.html
I fail to see how they can reach the required "copper color", even with decoction, without Sinamar which is derived from malt so it can be legal. To get that color would require copious amounts of Caramunich, which would render it sweet and roasted malts.. Thoughts?
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I don't get what you're asking. The whole grist is described in the article.
 
👍. I see it now. I had an alt bier entered in a competition this year which won 1st in category, but I think there were only 2 other alts entered (open competition, all categories of BJCP were included).

It was a “nice” beer, but the recipe needs some further improvement. I used to travel quite frequently to Germany and have enjoyed many altbiers in Düsseldorf, but mine was, I believe, more like a “nice American Amber Ale”, which to me lacks the true authenticity of Alt. This thread and especially your post will help me perfect it. Vielen Dank!
 
AmarikinBrew said:
If you take a look at the old brewing records of Zum Uerige:
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2014/11/lets-brew-wednesday-zum-uerige-alt.html
I fail to see how they can reach the required "copper color", even with decoction, without Sinamar which is derived from malt so it can be legal. To get that color would require copious amounts of Caramunich, which would render it sweet and roasted malts.. Thoughts?
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The article says they Röstmalz which is roasted malt. That's mostly where the color comes from. How do you "fail to see how"?
 
Spartan1979 said:
The article says they Röstmalz which is roasted malt. That's mostly where the color comes from. How do you "fail to see how"?
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When entered into beersmith the percentages from the article even with the roast malt set to the darkest level mentioned yields a deep gold or light amber beer.
 
wepeeler said:
Roast and chocolate are no no's in the BJCP guidelines. The first one I ever had about 20 years ago was actually an American take on an Altbier. So I really didn't have anything to go by when I started brewing. I emailed that brewery my recipe and they got back to me saying I was reasonably close with my recipe. BUT, I never even looked into the traditional style until maybe 6 months ago. Didn't realize I was chasing something way off.

The guy I brew with loves roast, so this recipe was a slight reflection of his influence. From my scoresheets posted above, judged by a master cicerone, the roast put the beer out of style. But he also said he'd gladly have another pint. So, I didn't brew a traditional Altbier, but I've modified this recipe to get closer to the style. I detect zero roast as of now :) I'll keg next week!
Click to expand...
It's good! Don't know what to say. I'm sure it's not a traditional German Altbier, but I'm happy I have 5 gallons of it!

Slight roast, malty, but attenuated. Cant wait for it to clear in the keg!
 

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