Wee Heavy recipe thoughts

[Golddiggie]

I'm looking at brewing a wee heavy in about a month (it's after two other recipes get brewed). Right now I'm trying to decide how much of the peated malt I want to add. I've never used it in a recipe before. I have used cherry wood smoked malt and like what it gives that recipe.

My current recipe has 2% of the grist as the peated malt (comes out to 1/2#). I'm thinking of using the entire pound that I bought in the recipe though. Which puts it to 4% of the grist. Does anyone see a major issue with that? The current recipe is:
Crisp Maris Otter (No 19): 85.7%
Simpson double roast crystal: 8.2%
Pale chocolate: 4.1%
Peat smoked malt: 2%

Changing the peat smoked amount would change the recipe to:
Crisp Maris Otter: 84%
Simpson double roast crystal: 8%
Pale chocolate: 4%
Peat smoked malt: 4%

I'll be hopping with EKG to about 22IBU in the recipe (unless I change that). ABV estimate is in the low 9% range (9.1-9.3% depending on which option I take).

Thoughts??
How heavy will the peat smoked malt be by changing the percentage from 2% to 4%? As I mentioned, I've not used that malt before, so I'm looking for thoughts from people who HAVE.

 

[easttex]

Technically speaking, the "official" description of a Wee Heavy says peat smoked malt is inappropriate:

And personally, I don't care for smoked beers myself. But it's your beer so use as much as you like. With that said, a little goes a long way so I'd start at 2% for this batch and if that isn't enough for you, up the percentage next time.

 

[Golddiggie]

I know it's not in the 'official description' but that only goes so far. Since the description of peat smoke malt is
"Robust smoky malt that provides a smoky flavor. Used in scottish ales and wee heavy ales."

My breakfast stout, with the cherry wood smoked malt is a huge hit.

 

[easttex]

Well again, I subscribe to the notion that a little smoke goes a long way so I'd start small and work up from there. I'm told that peat smoke is particularly pungent and can be overpowering.

 

[Miraculix]

I never had a Scottish ale that used smoked malt. But I might have had limited access to Scottish beers when living in the UK. Maybe the Scottish ales from America are different.

 

[Golddiggie]

Which is why I posted asking. If people experienced in it's use say that the 2% level is going to give me a better result, then I'll go that route (my original recipe). I know, from experience, that the cherry wood smoked malt can safely be used at a higher percentage. My first recipe with that had it at 13.3% and it was a good level.

 

[Golddiggie]

Updated the poll with the 1% option (which would be 1/4#).

 

[marc1]

I know it's not in the 'official description' but that only goes so far. Since the description of peat smoke malt is
"Robust smoky malt that provides a smoky flavor. Used in scottish ales and wee heavy ales."

My breakfast stout, with the cherry wood smoked malt is a huge hit.

I think the grain description is from a common use of the grain that is not to style for the beer type. People hear the name and think the beer must have peaty flavors because of the Islay scotches. If you want to make a Scottish ale to style, don't use it. If you want to make a Scottish ale that has peated smokiness, use it - it's your beer. It might get dinged in judging if you are entering it into competition, though.

 

[Golddiggie]

Not looking to enter it into a competition. I've actually never sent any brews in for judging. I'm more interested in making great beers than what some judges think of them. I'm also looking for more info as to what the peat smoked malt will give the beer. I might reduce the amount to just 1%. I'm still about a month away from brewing that recipe, so I have time to weigh the options.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I know it's not in the 'official description' but that only goes so far. Since the description of peat smoke malt is
"Robust smoky malt that provides a smoky flavor. Used in scottish ales and wee heavy ales."

No - because that way you're opening yourself to any random BS from a maltster who wants to sell a speciality malt. Peat malt may be used in some US beers that claim to be Scottish in style, but it simply is not used in traditional brewing in Scotland. It is a complete fantasy to suggest otherwise.

Not least because all the breweries are where the coal is, and not where the peat is - whereas in the main the reverse is true of distilleries. And wee heavy is not a style but a reference to a specific beer, Fowler's 12 Guinea Ale (equivalent to 252/-) - which was partigyled with a pale ale so uses normal pale ale grist. The Bellhaven wee heavy represents a continuation of the Fowler heritage and is just pale and black malt.

Use peat malt if you want, just don't call the resulting beer Scottish. And definitely don't call it a Wee Heavy.

 

[Falstaff]

I made a 90 percent peated Scottish WHISKY ale. It's intense but very good if you like Laphroaig. I don't think it's a Scotch ale if it uses peat. The confusion I think comes from the name. Scotch refers to the specific style from that country, not Scotch Whisky, which, to my knowledge, use peat mostly in Islay, not everywhere, anyways.

 

[DromJohn]

1) Don't let the capercaillie keep you down.
2) Get rid of my vote for 2%. Lower it to: AHS Belhaven Wee Heavy
I haven't brewed the Wee Heavy, but I did brew the AHS Belhaven Scottish Ale, and it did very well in a side-by-side.

 

[Golddiggie]

1) Don't let the capercaillie keep you down.
2) Get rid of my vote for 2%. Lower it to: AHS Belhaven Wee Heavy
I haven't brewed the Wee Heavy, but I did brew the AHS Belhaven Scottish Ale, and it did very well in a side-by-side.

That recipe has peated malt as almost 2% of the grist (1.75%). I can't see 1/4% making all that much of a difference.

 

[kevin58]

I know it's not in the 'official description' but that only goes so far. Since the description of peat smoke malt is
"Robust smoky malt that provides a smoky flavor. Used in scottish ales and wee heavy ales."

My breakfast stout, with the cherry wood smoked malt is a huge hit.

Peat has no place in Scottish brewing. It never has. The notion that Scots brewers comes from romantic nonsense and misinterpretation of descriptions published decades ago. There is nothing wrong with using peat smoked malt in a recipe if you like the results but it is not Scottish.

 

[Golddiggie]

Between enough comments, and more thoughts on my end, I'm going to delete the peat smoked malt from the recipe. I'll probably tweak it a bit more before brewing it.

Now I'm thinking about using it in a 'whiskey' stout recipe. Maybe even soak some oak cubes in some that I have on hand (bought years ago, never opened) and let the brew rest with them in it for a spell.

 

[easttex]

Between enough comments, and more thoughts on my end, I'm going to delete the peat smoked malt from the recipe. I'll probably tweak it a bit more before brewing it.

Now I'm thinking about using it in a 'whiskey' stout recipe. Maybe even soak some oak cubes in some that I have on hand (bought years ago, never opened) and let the brew rest with them in it for a spell.

That would probably be pretty tastey.

 

[Falstaff]

Between enough comments, and more thoughts on my end, I'm going to delete the peat smoked malt from the recipe. I'll probably tweak it a bit more before brewing it.

Now I'm thinking about using it in a 'whiskey' stout recipe. Maybe even soak some oak cubes in some that I have on hand (bought years ago, never opened) and let the brew rest with them in it for a spell.

It wouldn't be to style. But part of the fun of home brewing is that you get to break the rules sometimes. It just wouldn't be a wee heavy anymore, but it could be something tasty.

I added beechwood smoked malt to a wee heavy recipe of mine once just for kicks and it was damn good, just probably not a wee heavy at that point.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I think that sums up the different approaches - this is Belhaven, actual brewers in Scotland :

And then some unknown US homebrewer decides that this is a clone of the same beer , with 7 malts rather than 2 :

It's just a joke.

As much as anything, it shows a pretty basic lack of understanding of the philosophy of commercial brewers in Europe, who generally use relatively few ingredients, but good ones. Throwing the kitchen sink at a recipe belies a certain lack of confidence in the ingredients IMO.

Anyway, getting past the wee heavy label - peat malt is one of things that's very easy to wreck a beer with, a little goes a long way. It's not like rauch malts which are relatively subtle in comparison. Also it's one of those things where different people can have different sensitivities to. So even if someone is saying "it works fine at 10%", it's hard to trust because you don't know their palate. Depends a bit on what the rest of the beer is doing, but I'd go 1%, 2% max if you want a beer that is vaguely balanced.

 

[Golddiggie]

I tend to use less malts in my recipes than more. To date, I've kept it under five malts (including base malt) with the malts selected actually being for flavors they provide. Years ago I would use more malts in recipes. I think the ones I'm making now, under this method, are better. I'm even trying to reduce the malts in some of my very successful recipes to see if I can get the desired flavors without additional malts.

I think I have a good recipe for the whiskey stout. I'm going to model it as a sweet stout, not a foreign extra, or anything really big. More so that people can enjoy more of it than get wrecked after a couple of glasses. The peat smoked malt is 1.8% of the grist for this one. Estimate is 5.4% ABV.

 

[Beerstein]

Use 3% and don’t call it a wee heavy, also increase the bitterness. I’m also a peat head.

 

[Beerstein]

I know it's not in the 'official description' but that only goes so far. Since the description of peat smoke malt is
"Robust smoky malt that provides a smoky flavor. Used in scottish ales and wee heavy ales."

My breakfast stout, with the cherry wood smoked malt is a huge hit.

I really like cherry wood. It’s more forgiving, and I think it’s more complex too.

 

[Golddiggie]

Use 3% and don’t call it a wee heavy, also increase the bitterness. I’m also a peat head.

I'm not an IBU head. I typically aim for the middle of the IBU range for a style when brewing it. I'm getting solid results that way.

Maybe I should swap the peat smoked for cherry wood smoked malt in the stout.

 

[passedpawn]

Well again, I subscribe to the notion that a little smoke goes a long way so I'd start small and work up from there. I'm told that peat smoke is particularly pungent and can be overpowering.

Pfft.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/100-peated-ale.276443/

 

[passedpawn]

I added peat to a wee heavy I made a long time ago and it did add a nice earthiness. I also used it in a fall brown ale I made once. I think that latter beer was a Tumbler clone (not sure if Sierra Nevada stills makes that).

 

[Falstaff]

Pfft.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/100-peated-ale.276443/

Yup I did a 90% peat based on this thread and I LOVE it.

 

[Golddiggie]

I added peat to a wee heavy I made a long time ago and it did add a nice earthiness. I also used it in a fall brown ale I made once. I think that latter beer was a Tumbler clone (not sure if Sierra Nevada stills makes that).

What do you think about me dumping the full pound of peat smoked malt into the new recipe (Whiskey Stout)? I have the malt, might as well use it. Worst case, it will be horrid and I'll dump it.

 

[Beerstein]

For reference, the smoked porter I just made, I used 15% smoked malt.

 

[Golddiggie]

For reference, the smoked porter I just made, I used 15% smoked malt.

My breakfast stout had 13.3% of the grist as the cherry wood smoked malt. The next brewing will have that increased to 16.2%. It was lesser than I had really wanted in the first brewing, hence increasing it for the coming batch.

 

[Falstaff]

What do you think about me dumping the full pound of peat smoked malt into the new recipe (Whiskey Stout)? I have the malt, might as well use it. Worst case, it will be horrid and I'll dump it.

Do it.

Do you like peat, though? Have you tried heavily peated scotch? If you like that then you cant go wrong. Just depends on your palate. Brew for your head. Otherwise, what's the point?

 

[Golddiggie]

Not really a hard alcohol drinker. I'm happy with good wine (cab's mostly) and beers I brew.

 

[passedpawn]

What do you think about me dumping the full pound of peat smoked malt into the new recipe (Whiskey Stout)? I have the malt, might as well use it. Worst case, it will be horrid and I'll dump it.

haha go for it. Higher ABVs can carry strong flavors.

But you could just use a wood-smoked malt. When Briess came out with the cherry smoked malt, I fell in love with it. Sweet and bacony, I've made smoked beers with a mix of that and the Wey oak smoked many times, to great effect. I love the smoke beers.

 

[Falstaff]

Not really a hard alcohol drinker. I'm happy with good wine (cab's mostly) and beers I brew.

Me neither, but my significant other is Scottish so I dabble sometimes. Doesn't mean you don't like it though.

If you don't, you know who to send it to

 

[passedpawn]

What do you think about me dumping the full pound of peat smoked malt into the new recipe (Whiskey Stout)? I have the malt, might as well use it. Worst case, it will be horrid and I'll dump it.

If you want something interesting, consider looking into wood spirals. I HIGHLY suggest the spanish cedar, which I use all the time in IPAs. It's the wood that cigar boxes are made of. Nom nom.

I drop two of them in a fermentor for just a few days (longer = more!). You get all the wood flavor and aroma you want.

 

[Golddiggie]

haha go for it. Higher ABVs can carry strong flavors.

But you could just use a wood-smoked malt. When Briess came out with the cherry smoked malt, I fell in love with it. Sweet and bacony, I've made smoked beers with a mix of that and the Wey oak smoked many times, to great effect. I love the smoke beers.

I'm using the cherry wood smoked in my breakfast stout to get the bacon character.

The Whiskey Stout is coming up at 5.5% estimated. Tweaked the water profile to add more malt character to the brew.

Me neither, but my significant other is Scottish so I dabble sometimes. Doesn't mean you don't like it though.

If you don't, you know who to send it to

I'm sure I'll have little trouble getting the initial brewing to disappear. I've been kegging less than half and putting the rest into cans. When people hear a recipe is available, they come over for a glass (or several) and then go home with cans. Need to burn through the 11.1oz cans I got from MoreBeer since those won't work with the labels I plan to get printed (on a roll for easier application).

 

[Golddiggie]

If you want something interesting, consider looking into wood spirals. I HIGHLY suggest the spanish cedar, which I use all the time in IPAs. It's the wood that cigar boxes are made of. Nom nom.

I drop two of them in a fermentor for just a few days (longer = more!). You get all the wood flavor and aroma you want.

View attachment 740075

I have two packages of the medium+ toast French spirals in my Northern Brewer cart right now. I'll look to add some of the cedar and see what else they have in stock before I pull the trigger. I also have some maple honeycomb pattern wood that I need to use in something. Thinking it might go into the next time I make a maple wine. Need to get with a sugar shack before winter so that I can get some dark syrup off them. Figure if I wait too long I won't get what I want.

 

[passedpawn]

I have two packages of the medium+ toast French spirals in my Northern Brewer cart right now. I'll look to add some of the cedar and see what else they have in stock before I pull the trigger. I also have some maple honeycomb pattern wood that I need to use in something. Thinking it might go into the next time I make a maple wine. Need to get with a sugar shack before winter so that I can get some dark syrup off them. Figure if I wait too long I won't get what I want.

You can get spanish cedar (which is actually in mahogany family, its not cedar) at Woodcraft, if you have one of those near you. I've done that, split it into staves and dropped right into the fermentor.

 

[Falstaff]

I'm using the cherry wood smoked in my breakfast stout to get the bacon character.

The Whiskey Stout is coming up at 5.5% estimated. Tweaked the water profile to add more malt character to the brew.


I'm sure I'll have little trouble getting the initial brewing to disappear. I've been kegging less than half and putting the rest into cans. When people hear a recipe is available, they come over for a glass (or several) and then go home with cans. Need to burn through the 11.1oz cans I got from MoreBeer since those won't work with the labels I plan to get printed (on a roll for easier application).

Do you can? I'd love to but it looks like a lot of equipment.

 

[Golddiggie]

Do you can? I'd love to but it looks like a lot of equipment.

I do the can can...
Biggest investment is the can sealer. I had the Cannular with the manual lever. Yeah, no. Too much "human error" for me. Sold it to someone here and bought the 'pro' version which is a button to get it to seal. Better pedestal design as well. Not cheap, but "buy once, cry once". Wish I had bought it from the start (would have spent less total). If you're looking at it, just get the pro version and don't worry.
MoreBeer has the cans in two sizes. The canning machine works with standard 202 lid sizes. So you can get cans from any source that sells those.
Also went with the Tapcooler counter pressure filler setup for cans. Got the base "upgrade" which was 'meh' at best. Ended up making my own larger base (wider and thicker) with a bottom drain instead of off the back. Works pissah now. It wasn't much of an issue for me to make since I have a milling machine.
I have the entire can filling and sealing gear on a single rolling wire mesh cart. Makes it easy to move into position (in front of my conical fermenters) and use. When done, pretty easy to clean up and then roll it back to where it rests. Advantage of the wire mesh cart is the base for the Tapcooler can mount through the mesh so it's easy to use. With my new base, I simply put a container under it to catch the overflow (foam) and such.
Oh, and DO get the splash shield for the filler. Only issue I had was the shield doesn't work great for the taller (500ML) cans. I added another piece of plexiglass on the front to extend that down far enough. I also made a splash shield for the rest of the sealer to keep it from spraying all over the place. Simple corrugated plastic was used for that. Easy to clean when done.
Something else I saw on a couple of the videos when I was looking at filling options and such. Have a large bucket/tote of water next to the can sealer. After you fill and seal the can, drop it in there. Depending on how much it floats you'll know if you got the fill right, light, or heavy. I have better results when filling from conical (already chilled and carbonated) than from keg that was in the keezer before.

 

[Falstaff]

I do the can can...
Biggest investment is the can sealer. I had the Cannular with the manual lever. Yeah, no. Too much "human error" for me. Sold it to someone here and bought the 'pro' version which is a button to get it to seal. Better pedestal design as well. Not cheap, but "buy once, cry once". Wish I had bought it from the start (would have spent less total). If you're looking at it, just get the pro version and don't worry.
MoreBeer has the cans in two sizes. The canning machine works with standard 202 lid sizes. So you can get cans from any source that sells those.
Also went with the Tapcooler counter pressure filler setup for cans. Got the base "upgrade" which was 'meh' at best. Ended up making my own larger base (wider and thicker) with a bottom drain instead of off the back. Works pissah now. It wasn't much of an issue for me to make since I have a milling machine.
I have the entire can filling and sealing gear on a single rolling wire mesh cart. Makes it easy to move into position (in front of my conical fermenters) and use. When done, pretty easy to clean up and then roll it back to where it rests. Advantage of the wire mesh cart is the base for the Tapcooler can mount through the mesh so it's easy to use. With my new base, I simply put a container under it to catch the overflow (foam) and such.
Oh, and DO get the splash shield for the filler. Only issue I had was the shield doesn't work great for the taller (500ML) cans. I added another piece of plexiglass on the front to extend that down far enough. I also made a splash shield for the rest of the sealer to keep it from spraying all over the place. Simple corrugated plastic was used for that. Easy to clean when done.
Something else I saw on a couple of the videos when I was looking at filling options and such. Have a large bucket/tote of water next to the can sealer. After you fill and seal the can, drop it in there. Depending on how much it floats you'll know if you got the fill right, light, or heavy. I have better results when filling from conical (already chilled and carbonated) than from keg that was in the keezer before.

Wicked pissah. Thx for the info. I'll look into it.

 

[bwible]

One tip I got from a local very high level grand master beer judge for wee heavy said to collect about the first half gallon of runnings and boil that seperately down to about a quart (half) and add that back to the ketlle. To get richness and some extra malliard-y stuff.