Ways To Lower S-04 Acidity?

[day_trippr]

I wonder if the tart thing is only noticeable in certain beer styles. I've been using S04 for my imperial stout for nearly two decades now and have never thought of "tart" as a character in it...

Cheers!

 

[corncob]

I've seen a lot of talk about how clean (the current incarnation of) s-04 is, but I tasted one of my recent beers along with an old bottle of a previous version of the same ale fermented with A-09 and found them surprisingly similar, although noticeably different.

The A-09 was fruitier overall, sweeter, with a definite orange flavor not found in the s-04 ale. But the two I just did with s-04 at 71F (closer to 22C) were quite estery with a pleasant English character. It's giving me what I want for what I am brewing, which is great since it's cheap and easy to work with (relatively fast, fairly attenuative, repeatable, flocculant, can survive shipping in the sunny South, etc). I do plan to try fermenting one cooler just to see what the yeast can do though.

 

[couchsending]

Does anyone actually measure the final beer pH when referring to the “twang”. English yeast can be notorious for dropping pH significantly. Finished beer pH in the low 4s can definitely taste a bit acidic or twangy.

I know making a starter with dry yeast is technically wrong but from my experience with this yeast this can actually help prevent this yeast in particular from driving pH way down during fermentation and eliminating the “twang”.

Otherwise make sure the pH of your knock out wort is a bit higher, this can help final beer pH finish a touch higher.

And if you don’t have a pH meter, you should. It’s the best investment you’ll ever make. Brewing beer without a pH meter is like driving a car without a speedometer.

 

[Witherby]

Here is another HBT thread about S-04 twang: Let's talk S-04 and tartness

Some quotes:

There is a small tartness that I've noticed from it when fermenting above 64-65 degrees.

When I first used S-04 in a brown ale, before I had ferm temp control, it just about made me vomit.
Tried it in a brown ale again at ~68F with some rudimentary control, still hated that sour apple twang it gave me.
Got good temp control and tried it again at 65F and it was almost palatable.
Tried it again at 63F and BINGO, totally different (and very enjoyable!) beast.

That's the key - the Whitbread B family tend to produce lactic acid when they're fermented warm.

Weirdly, Lallemand says the correct range for S-04 is 18-26°C (64.4-78.8°F)! I fermented at 64-66 (according to the Tilt, which seems to measure temps very well).

I don't have a pH meter and I'm not really interested in getting one. I trust Bru'n water for my mash pH calculations. But in this case, I wish I had one. Seems like a good Brulosophy experiment.

 

[Yooper]

So4 makes pretty nice ciders! Not bone dry like wine yeast, but still dry. I think one of my ciders finished at 1.004 with s04, or thereabouts, and one at 1.008.

I've used it at 62F in ales, and thought it was pretty clean, but over that and it got tart with some esters (because it's an English strain I assumed).

 

[Dgallo]

It would be really interesting to see if the ph changes from "tasting tart from the fermenter" to "tasting normal after few weeks in the bottle".

I would assume the ph would stay the same or even drop due to bottle conditioning and increased floccuatuon

 

[Dgallo]

I wonder if the tart thing is only noticeable in certain beer styles. I've been using S04 for my imperial stout for nearly two decades now and have never thought of "tart" as a character in it...

Cheers!

Sounds to me like folks are experiencing acetaldehyde because they aren’t raising temp at the end of fermentation and giving the beer a chance to clean its self up. For those unfamiliar, it’s a precursor to ethanol and taste like Granny Smith apples or cider. Which would be a twangy tart character in the beer

 

[Witherby]

Sounds to me like folks are experiencing acetaldehyde because they are raising temp at the end and give the beer a chance to clean its self up. For those unfamiliar it’s a precursor to ethanol and taste like Granny Smith apples or cider. Which would be a twangy tart character in the beer

This is what my yeast microbiologist friend told me last night in our weekly homebrew club zoom meeting. Reading through other threads (there is a LOT written about this yeast) S04 can drop out and not finish the job cleaning up acetaldehyde (or take a long time doing it). This 1.037 beer has been sitting at 1.015 for two days. I have a half packet of Notty in the fridge. I think I’ll make a small starter and kräusen the beer this weekend and transfer it into a keg and let it clean up and naturally carbonate. This is my standard procedure with lagers anyway.

I also noticed that they changed the recommended temperature range for this yeast. It used to be 59-68.