Trying to improve color in extract brew

[Froyd]

In an effort to improve color in an American Wheat beer I'm making this weekend, I'm planning to only boil 2lbs out of the required 6, for 60 minutes. The remaining 4lbs would be added 20-15 minutes before the end of the boil.

I would like to keep IBU's in check and the "straight recipe" (6lbs of LME boiled for 60 with 1oz Willameette for the full boil and 1oz Cascade for the last 15mins) would get me in the 20 IBUs range. If I keep the same hop schedule/quantity but with only 2lbs of LME, I end up with closer to 28 IBUs.

Most advice I've read so far is to cut the quantity of hop additions, say from 1 oz to 0.75. The recipe calculator seems to agree because it gives me 19 IBUs. However, I never saw any advice about shortening the amount of time the hops are boiled. It seems that if I cut the Willamette from 60 mins to 40, and the Cascade from 15 mins to 5, but keep the quantities at 1 oz each, I end up in the same ballpark of 20 IBUs.

So, is there a reason why all the advice I read about late malt additions tells me to compensate for the higher hop utilization by cutting the amount of hops as opposed to cutting the time the hops sit in the boil?

 

[JLeuck64]

I am only posting to help with answering your question about color, because I've noticed that once someone answers one of these "unanswered questions" a few or sometimes a LOT of other HBT folks will follow suit. In my opinion I wouldn't be too worried about color until it tastes like something I was buying off the store shelf. Once it tastes great then I would start focusing in on making the color look great too!

 

[RM-MN]

Some things that come to mind about utilizing the shorter time for the hops to get the expected IBU's. Sometime a shorter time allows flavor of the bittering hop to remain instead of being boiled out. I've had the citrusy flavor of Cascade come through when I wanted no flavor at all. Changing the later addition will change its flavor contribution too. I would keep its addition at 15 minute for that reason.

Check the alpha acid of the bittering hop. You might be able to substitute a different hop with lower alpha acid to control the bittering since you aren't looking for the flavor of it anyway. Saaz might be a good substitute. Each year the alpha acid changes too as growing seasons are different so your recipe might be designed for the 2007 hop crop while you are using 2015 crop.

Can you differentiate between 20 IBU and 28 IBU? Will it ruin your beer if it is a little more bitter? Will drinking a few IPA's change your taste?

To make your wheat beer lighter consider using the 2 pounds for 60 minutes as you mentioned but add the rest after you turn the heat off. Your malt extract doesn't need to be boiled and adding it at flame out will still make sure it is pasteurized.

 

[LBussy]

A wheat beer should be low on hop flavor and bitterness. If you reduce the boil time you reduce the bitterness but shift the profile towards hop flavor. Make sense?

 

[Froyd]

I am only posting to help with answering your question about color, because I've noticed that once someone answers one of these "unanswered questions" a few or sometimes a LOT of other HBT folks will follow suit. In my opinion I wouldn't be too worried about color until it tastes like something I was buying off the store shelf. Once it tastes great then I would start focusing in on making the color look great too!

I completely agree. This is my third batch of this kit and it keeps tasting better. First time was prepared 100% by the recipe in the kit. Second time, I changed the yeast and added a blood orange vodka tincture in the keg. The result was even better the second time around, but the two areas I wanted to improve were 1) mouth feel (a bit thin, though OK for a wheat) and 2)color, which was dark amber.

On my third batch of this stuff, I'm giving flaked oats a try to address mouth feel and late extract addition to address color (in, admittedly, a limited way).

It is precisely because I like the results I have achieved so far, that I want to keep IBUs roughly the same, and not end up with a beer that's more bitter than I wanted.

 

[Froyd]

A wheat beer should be low on hop flavor and bitterness. If you reduce the boil time you reduce the bitterness but shift the profile towards hop flavor. Make sense?

Very clear, thanks!

I don't pretend to understand the physics behind your statement, but it makes sense. I assume hop flavor is volatile and the heat from boiling it diminishes it gradually. But again, your advice sounds good. I'll keep the regular timing for additions and just diminish the hop quantity.

 

[Froyd]

Some things that come to mind about utilizing the shorter time for the hops to get the expected IBU's. Sometime a shorter time allows flavor of the bittering hop to remain instead of being boiled out. I've had the citrusy flavor of Cascade come through when I wanted no flavor at all. Changing the later addition will change its flavor contribution too. I would keep its addition at 15 minute for that reason.

Check the alpha acid of the bittering hop. You might be able to substitute a different hop with lower alpha acid to control the bittering since you aren't looking for the flavor of it anyway. Saaz might be a good substitute. Each year the alpha acid changes too as growing seasons are different so your recipe might be designed for the 2007 hop crop while you are using 2015 crop.

Can you differentiate between 20 IBU and 28 IBU? Will it ruin your beer if it is a little more bitter? Will drinking a few IPA's change your taste?

To make your wheat beer lighter consider using the 2 pounds for 60 minutes as you mentioned but add the rest after you turn the heat off. Your malt extract doesn't need to be boiled and adding it at flame out will still make sure it is pasteurized.

I like the idea of adding the balance of the malt at flame out. I was under the mistaken impression it had to boil it for at least 15 minutes (I think I got that frm BeerSmith, but can'r remember).

 

[RM-MN]

I completely agree. This is my third batch of this kit and it keeps tasting better. First time was prepared 100% by the recipe in the kit. Second time, I changed the yeast and added a blood orange vodka tincture in the keg. The result was even better the second time around, but the two areas I wanted to improve were 1) mouth feel (a bit thin, though OK for a wheat) and 2)color, which was dark amber.

On my third batch of this stuff, I'm giving flaked oats a try to address mouth feel and late extract addition to address color (in, admittedly, a limited way).

It is precisely because I like the results I have achieved so far, that I want to keep IBUs roughly the same, and not end up with a beer that's more bitter than I wanted.

Your choice of oats may work out for you but the usual thought for oats is to give the beer a "slick" mouthfeel and the oils in the oats may diminish the heading of your wheat beer. One grain that does increase mouthfeel by adding unfermentable sugars (tasteless sugars) is carapils. You could steep some of that for mouthfeel and a higher FG. If you didn't want to steep the carapils, maltodextrine will do approximately the same added to the end of the boil.

 

[Yooper]

I like the idea of adding the balance of the malt at flame out. I was under the mistaken impression it had to boil it for at least 15 minutes (I think I got that frm BeerSmith, but can'r remember).

No reason to boil it at all, as you can add it at flame out, which is plenty hot enough to pasteurize it.

The larger the boil size and the less sugar in it, the lighter the color. It's due to maillard reactions (very similar to caramelization which occurs at higher temperatures), just like bread in the toaster browns.

If you boil as much volume as you can, and add the majority of the extract at flame out, the color will be markedly lighter. A good rule of thumb is to use about one pound of sugars (either extract, wort from grains, or actual sugar, depending on the recipe) per gallon of liquid in the boil.

So, if you're boiling 2.5-3 gallons, I'd use two pounds of extract at most in the boil (assuming you have some wort from steeped grains also), and add the rest at flame out.

Also, in the last 8 years or so, it's been found that the amount of extract in the wort has really very little to do with the isomerization of hops. so there is no reason to reduce the hops unless you are doing something else like increasing the size of the boil. The old IBU calculators use the SG of the wort to predict the IBUs, but it's not really valid.

 

[Froyd]

Also, in the last 8 years or so, it's been found that the amount of extract in the wort has really very little to do with the isomerization of hops. so there is no reason to reduce the hops unless you are doing something else like increasing the size of the boil. The old IBU calculators use the SG of the wort to predict the IBUs, but it's not really valid.

Thanks for that insight... That's the danger of the internet: old info sticks around even after it has been disproven, and there's no one to edit it.

 

[Ski12568]

I completely agree. This is my third batch of this kit and it keeps tasting better. First time was prepared 100% by the recipe in the kit. Second time, I changed the yeast and added a blood orange vodka tincture in the keg. The result was even better the second time around, but the two areas I wanted to improve were 1) mouth feel (a bit thin, though OK for a wheat) and 2)color, which was dark amber.



On my third batch of this stuff, I'm giving flaked oats a try to address mouth feel and late extract addition to address color (in, admittedly, a limited way).



It is precisely because I like the results I have achieved so far, that I want to keep IBUs roughly the same, and not end up with a beer that's more bitter than I wanted.

I have a feeling that the dark Amber color you are getting is from improperly stored/old LME. I would try using DME if you can, and see if there is a change in color. I did a small batch of light DME and CTZ hops this morning to see if I still get the darker color and "homebrew" taste I got with LME, and to learn about CTZ hops. Storage of LME isn't talked about much anywhere and I am starting to think it is a huge problem for some people and they don't even know it.