Suggestions for a beer to determine and enhance a mystery wild hop

[RM-MN]

You're a flipping gem. Thank you soooo much. I'll get the gear all sterilised and then fetch some more fresh hops off the green striped stems.

We went out to dinner last night with some farmer friends and I took some of the MO barley light malt with me for their comments. It turns out they feed their cows with two brewable barleys. Planet and Laureate. So he said to come and fetch some before the cows eat it all. Home malting coming next if we can make a reasonably drinkable beer with this first. Even more fun. I adore brewing stuff and especially foraged stuff.

Before you go through the home malting process, use some of the malted barley you bought and mix in some of their unmalted barley. Most of the malted barley available today has sufficient excess enzymes to convert more than its weight in unmalted barley.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

Finally introducing Mongrel Beer No. 1

Done exactly to IslandLizards recipe (thank you) using 2oz of fresh mongrel hops.
1oz at 30', 0.5oz' at 15' and 0.5oz at 5'
Maris otter extract 1.1lb to 1 gallon
S-05 yeast
Using tap water that had been jug filtered

SG was about 1.032 just below the top of the beer red band on the hydrometer

Now that wasn't so bad. I was apprehensive of doing that for no good reason.

Now we have the rest of the malt so will have to do two more gallons doing something different. Perhaps the full 2oz just at flameout. Will try Ratinators suggestion #3 of a pale (will look up what that is).

Update. Looking at this pale ale recipe like OSH. Will use only this extract and only these hops in approximate proportions for a gallon and see what happens.

 

[OnePlate]

I'm really excited to hear how this turns out! I'll cross my fingers for ya

 

[Mumathomebrew]

You have all been so kind and patient. Now I'm very happy as i've just done Mongrel no. 2 (OSH copy from that link, of a sort, using what I had)

1 UK gallon (8 pints) filtered tap water
609g MO extract
63g golden syrup
17g jaggery goor (instead of the demerara as I didn't have any)
9g mongrel hop at beginning 60'
3g mongrel hop at 15'
2g mongrel hop at 5'
s-05 yeast
SG was 1.054 so I added 3/4 pint of water to make 1.052

Had to work in grams as the US recipe was in kg for ease of conversion

Now just one more to make to use up the rest of the malt extract.

 

[IslandLizard]

Looks really good, you're working brewing hard!

Done exactly to IslandLizards recipe (thank you) using 2oz of fresh mongrel hops.
1oz at 30', 0.5oz' at 15' and 0.5oz at 5'

Fresh as in "wet" from the field, not dried?

9g mongrel hop at beginning 60'
3g mongrel hop at 15'
2g mongrel hop at 5'

That looks a little low on hops. Are they dried or (still) wet?

17g jaggery goor (instead of the demerara as I didn't have any)

Does that jaggery have a flavor? Or is it just raw sugar?
You can use regular refined white sugar instead, the difference raw sugars adds in flavor is truly imperceptible. Now raw sugars can make fantastic tasting sugar syrups.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

Yes all fresh hops. Gathered especially for these beers, so in within the pick to use 4 hour slot. The rest are drying now.

I'm glad you said that recipe was low in hops because even though I am shocked in general about how few hops are needed in beer, I still thought it felt low. I did a very rough conversion of that extract Old Speckled Hen recipe to the ingredients I had, because it was originally an Oxfordshire beer so it seemed suitable.

I took this OSH thread five gallon recipe on post #8 for the extract version. I think I divided the figures by 4.16 for a UK gallon compared to 5 for a US gallon. (I'll check my maths again). I can always try to fix it by putting dried hops in the fermenting liquid I suppose or add extra-hoppy concentrated tea water.

Jaggery has a very definite beery direction sort of flavour. I made a Coopers kit using 1kg of it but it was actually too powerful in such quantity in a gallon. I'd say with a winemakers hat on, that it would seem a good sugar to gain a twangy taste to a beer. Its a sugar I've been playing with in banana wine.

Very childishly happy. The ferment has started this morning. I love live yeast.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

checking as my scrawled maths yesterday doesn't make any sense today.

2.77 kg Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract
0.26 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain
2.77kg/4.16 = 666g
0.26kg/4.16 = 62.5g
Added together as MO extract = 728.5g (I used 609g)
Therein is a maths error. I then x 3/4 thinking it was grain to extract maths, hence getting a 546g figure but then forgot and added the 62.5 crystal getting a 608.875g figure. Technically I'm short by 120g on the malt. Never mind as there was a lot in here and the SG was about right.

0.37 kg Lyle's Golden Syrup (0.0 SRM) Extract
0.37kg/4.16 = 88.9g (used 63g)
Second error as i misread my own list and read the crystal malt figure. Short by 25.9g.

36.88 gm Northern Brewer [8.50%] (60 min) Hops
36.88g/4.16 = 8.87g (used wet mongrel hops 9g)

0.07 kg Dememera Sugar (2.0 SRM) Sugar
0.07kg/4.16 = 16.82g (used jaggery 17g)

45 min into boil Add 12.30 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (15 min)
12.3g/4.16 = 2.95g (used wet mongrel hops 3g)

55 min into boil Add 8.20 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (5 min)
8.2g/4.16 = 1.97g (used wet mongrel hops 2g)
Third error. This recipe would have been for dried hops and i used fresh ones, so I needed to have put in 5 x the amounts. I'll try to work it out and make some hop tea to add. Oops beginner rubbish error.

Amend could be 9g + 3g + 2g = 14g x 5 = 70g (2.5oz) as a strong hop tea boiled at the right times but added now.

THANK you for the eagle eyes.

Weirdly, despite all the mistakes made in the sugar department. The SG was only a bit higher than the recipe called for, which got adjusted with water to the recipes 1.052. If the right amount of sugar had gone in then this would have been higher.

I'll keep a list of the trials and see what happens. I was looking at trying a 15 minute ale recipe with the remainder.of the malt. Obviously still using this MO extract and these hops.

So, more maths and proposing to boil for 15 minutes using
763g MO extract (assuming I have that much left)
use the same 2oz at 15'
1oz at 5'
1oz at FO

 

[IslandLizard]

55 min into boil Add 8.20 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (5 min)
8.2g/4.16 = 1.97g (used wet mongrel hops 2g)
Third error. This recipe would have been for dried hops and i used fresh ones, so I needed to have put in 5 x the amounts. I'll try to work it out and make some hop tea to add. Oops beginner rubbish error.

Amend could be 9g + 3g + 2g = 14g x 5 = 70g (2.5oz) as a strong hop tea boiled at the right times but added now.

I was going to suggest to add those extra hops as dry hops, after fermentation is done, toward the end of the conditioning phase, usually 3-5 days before packaging, to keep the aroma/flavor at their peak. Adding hops during active fermentation would blow off quite a bit of their aroma, but it is done successfully (e.g., NEIPAs, although they typically use boat loads of hops).

Here's a discussion and some guidelines on dry hopping with wet hops. Although infecting your beer by adding fresh/wet hops is always a possibility it seems to be a non-issue. If they are very dirty/soily, rinse them, and shake out the water.
https://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?25449-Dry-hopping-with-Fresh-Hops

 

[IslandLizard]

I was looking at trying a 15 minute ale recipe with the remainder.of the malt. Obviously still using this MO extract and these hops.

So, more maths and proposing to boil for 15 minutes using
763g MO extract (assuming I have that much left)
use the same 2oz at 15'
1oz at 5'
1oz at FO

That looks good! you can always substitute with some sugar if you're short on malt extract.
Those amounts are for using wet hops, right?

15 minute boils are fine when using extract. Yes, by doubling the bittering charge, you also benefit from the extra flavor of it being a late addition boil hop at the same time. That article is very informative.

Now when you're venturing into all-grain an hour boil (at least 30' with some precautions) is still the standard. With Pilsner malts 90' boils are recommended due to driving off the extra DMS it generates, but there are ways to reduce that to 45-60', if need be. Also depends on the (base) malt used.

All grain also needs an hour mash, then lautered. Together with an hour (or half hour) boil to drive off DMS while concentrating the wort it's a much longer and more hands-on brew session. Hardly worth the time for a single small, 1 gallon batch, IMO. Unless you do 2 or 3 at the same time or staggered, like mashing one while boiling the previous. Now they can be different recipes. Or the same recipe, fermented individually, or added together in the same (larger) fermenter (multigyle). So many options...

 

[Mumathomebrew]

Yes, all wet hops till the field runs out. I shall go and get some more today from the red leaf stalk, green stemmed bines if i can find them and from the green with red stripe stems if not. You are so fab to be so patient with a beginner. Thank you. I'll read those links and learn first.

I'm more curious as to the recipes at the moment as to making a ton of beer. I like the nuances thing going on. It seems a much more delicate and precise procedure than initially envisaged. No wonder craft beers are having a revival. It's fascinating and more speedily rewarding than wines, especially reds that have to wait years.

Is there any virtue in making a timed, hopped tea addition to any beer that has a hop error or deficiency? Does fermentation do anything super to the hop flavour?

 

[Mumathomebrew]

The 15 minute ale went as follows.

474g of Maris Otter malt extract left in the tin
123g of jaggery dissolved first in boiled water (part of the amount below)
Filtered water added pint by pint to make the SG go down to 1.040 (by sheer chance was exactly 8 pts). So established the SG before the boil not afterwards.

Brought the whole lot to a boil with 2oz mongrel hops, fresh wet at the start
5' added 1oz mongrel hops, fresh wet
FO added 1oz mongrel hops, fresh wet
Cooled it with the hops still in, then strained it through a sieve into a sterilised fermenting bucket as I hadn't got any more 1gal demis vacant. Pity, because I wanted to watch all three side by side. I want to empty one and transfer but perhaps I shouldn't mess with it.
Pitched S-05 yeast

Just before this brew, we had taken the dog on a walk to fetch the fresh hops for it especially. We found three huge rambling bines with the reddish leaf stems and came back with approx 5lbs of hops. They're now drying. That'll keep us busy forever this winter. Happy to share for the postage.

 

[IslandLizard]

I want to empty one and transfer but perhaps I shouldn't mess with it.

Good call! Emptying into what? You probably would have ruined it.

"Secondaries" are pretty much unnecessary for beer, causing more problems while solving none. There is benefit of bulk aging and certain (true) secondaries when needed and done correctly, but most beer is better off remaining in primary until packaging. Infection and oxidation being the most common detriments.

Your process looks good and solid. If anything, split the extract/sugars between adding half in the boil and the balance at flameout. It generally keeps the beer tasting fresher. Now you're not boiling for an hour, so that surely helps too. Now certain beer styles do benefit from extra caramelization ( e.g., Barleywines, Scottish Ales).

Foraged 5 pounds of wild wet hops! That's a real treat.
After drying, best to store them in (multilayer) mylar bags, being impermeable to oxygen. Thick/heavy duty ziplock bags are probably fine too. Short of a vacuum sealer, squeeze and/or suck (with a straw) the air out as much as you can. Maybe double bag, again remove air. Then freeze.

 

[IslandLizard]

Is there any virtue in making a timed, hopped tea addition to any beer that has a hop error or deficiency? Does fermentation do anything super to the hop flavour?

Yes, you can add hop tea to correct lack of bitterness (and make notes to increase the bittering charge next brew). But dry hopping, by adding hops to your fermenter a few days before packaging, is preferred to boost hop flavor and aroma. It makes the difference.

Fermentation does change the hop flavor/aroma too, they're complicated processes. A lot of new research is done on that front, with some all-telling discoveries.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

All three mongrel beers are smelling good so far. Each very different in their froth type appearance, so that's interesting in itself.



Have dried all the other hops and will dry hop the second beer with them. They seem quite clean and are incredibly resinous when handling. My hands get covered in yellow resin. Has anyone ever got this off with a solvent to make a hop extract that you add to beer in drops? Just curious so might try that.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

Well having thought of it. Just had to do it. This Daïquiri is 70% so ought to do the trick. It didn't seem to have much aroma nor flavour considering it is rum. It's probably as old as the hills as we don't drink the stuff.

Golden sticky resin plus 70% rum = we'll wait and see

 

[IslandLizard]

The yellow powder and resin is called lupulin. It contains various resins, aromatic hop oils, and other flavor products.
There are ways to separate it from the vegetable matter or make extracts from (all pretty high tech). Examples are hop shots, cryo hops, and hop hash.

At home, making alcohol extracts is about all you can do. Yield is limited.

I think best is to dry the hops, then package them with as little air/oxygen as possible (e.g., squeezing, vacuum sealing, and/or flush with CO2 or N2 to reduce oxygen content), and store frozen.

 

[BruceH]

FYI that hop resin is also a natural COX-2 inhibitor.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

I promise I'll be dry hopping. I was curious on a very mini scale.

That COX-2 Inhibitor is useful to know for a friend with CRPS. I'll tell her to drink more beer.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'll tell her to drink more beer.

Hoppy beer!

 

[Mumathomebrew]

It is incredibly bitter. I scraped some more from the boxes and added it. Good for a back up hop shot maybe.

 

[IslandLizard]

It is incredibly bitter. I scraped some more from the boxes and added it. Good for a back up hop shot maybe.

View attachment 645045

Nice picture!
Keep it out of sunlight, though... any light, any time!
Hop oils turn into skunk when exposed to light. Literally.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

Hence brown beer bottles. Aha. Thank you

 

[IslandLizard]

Hence brown beer bottles. Aha. Thank you

Sometimes even in brown bottles, given enough time and/or intensity.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

I was going to suggest to add those extra hops as dry hops, after fermentation is done, toward the end of the conditioning phase, usually 3-5 days before packaging, to keep the aroma/flavor at their peak.

Mongrel beer 1 - Popped in 10g (0.4oz) of freshly picked and then dried mongrel hops yesterday, on day 17 of the brew. The ferment is calm but not quite cleared yet. I'll let these hops sit until day 21 then try to fit the whole demi into our fridge to cold crash if it doesn't look a bit clearer to bottle.

Mongrel beer 2 - Popped in 0.5oz of the frozen dry hops today, on day 18 (coz I realised this was the one I was meant to be dry hopping).

It does feel a bit wrong in winemakers terms to stuff raw material in after ferment. Also why don't beermakers regularly use campden when bottling or transferring to secondaries like winemakers do? Does it taste in beers?

 

[IslandLizard]

Looking really good there! ^

But I was hoping for you to "dry hop" with freshly picked wet hops straight off the field, without drying them first...

 

[Mumathomebrew]

I would have done, however I've picked them all already. he ones on the right had only been dried for four days and not frozen. The left ones had been dried and frozen and were a bit greener.

The rest in the field have gone over now, I'm not sure how nice they stay in a hop pillow. Thats what I was thinking of using the browning ones for.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

Wayhay. Bottled the three first beers using these hops. What is so exciting is that all three were drinkable, even nice. It'll be interesting to see how they fare after conditioning. Thanks @Northern_Brewer for the name suggestion of Mongrel hops which led to the dog labels. Very fine mutty models they are too. Ours, and my best friends dog.

The India pale was still a little on the sweet side. If the yeast continues to work with the conditioning then it will be very nicely balanced if slightly drier. The hops and mouthfeel were soft, full and rounded, so gentle on the tongue. The sweetness could take more aggression from the hops. I'd make this again using more hops at the start. Because it was an extract, they only got a 30 minute boil. These probably aren't extreme bittering hops then. The aroma was pleasant but not aggressively hoppy.

Speckled hen clone was the better beer of the three, hubs and son thought. It was hoppy and rounded and quite full. More like a slightly darker bitter or dark amber ale than no 1. This will be nice if conditioning rounds it off as it was a bit prickly and not so smooth as no 1.

The lazy ale was remarkably pleasant. I haven't got the language of beer yet but it just tasted like good quaffable ordinary beer. Light and a bit hoppy.

Very collectively pleased, so thanking you all for such a lot of help. You've all been really patient. All these beers are perfectly drinkable unless we've been careless when bottling and they catch something. We'll see in two weeks or so.

 

[IslandLizard]

Those look so good! ^
Congrats with a successful and fruitful first brew experiment! Nice labels too.

Just keep them out of the light, store dark.
Are they still carbonating? I think I can see some residue/sediment on the bottom, but the beer is very clear.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

Just keep them out of the light, store dark.
Are they still carbonating?

Thank you. Keeping them under the stairs in a wooden box. My lads keep walking past and rubbing their hands in glee like magpies over a stash. It's very funny.

I think no 2 might have been still been carbonating slightly. I'm not sure how a home brewer stops that if one is adding yet more sugar. It's bound to throw another sediment in the bottle, then when opened, the release of pressure will make the bubbles stir it up to murky again. I suppose commercially, they gas it externally so no sediment is formed. More reading up to do.

Out of 7-8 bottles from each gallon, 5 were running definitely clear and then between 1 and 3 were getting cloudier. I bottled them anyway and put a sticker on the top to mark them. They'll presumably settle down. I'd attached a bit of chiffon to the end of the suction tube with a rubber band to stop the hops getting in it. Classy set up here!
The last one in a bucket had no late hopping, so we just poured into jugs first.