[SPOILERS] Star Wars - The Force Awakens / Rogue One

[kombat]

I thought it might be nice to have a thread where people who've already seen the film can discuss it openly without having to worry about spoiling it for other people.

If you haven't seen it yet, and don't want to learn any spoilers, STOP READING NOW.

My wife and I saw it yesterday, I thought it was excellent. My main complaint, if I had to come up with one, has to do with the motivation for the whole plot, really. The whole idea of the map to Luke Skywalker's hidden location. It seemed a little contrived to me.

Why did Luke go into hiding? Because the First Order wanted him dead. That part is easy enough. But where did this map to his location come from? And how come R2-D2 had most of it? Who made the map? Why do they need to bring Luke back in now? What's changed? The First Order is still trying to kill him, so why did the Rebels pick now to go and find him. Presumably, he's only in danger because this map exists, and the First Order was trying to get their hands on it. Which brings me back to my question: Where did this map come from, and who made it? If it had never been made, then Luke could have stayed hidden in seclusion, right? Am I missing something here?

My wife also suggested that Finn might have The Force. She was under the impression that only someone with The Force is able to wield a light saber. I don't recall there being any such restriction.

Also, any speculation on who Rey's parents might be? I thought that The Force was genetic - it stayed within bloodlines. But then my wife reminded me that Jedi are celibate, and thus The Force would die out pretty quickly if it didn't spontaneously manifest in people. Also, Han didn't have the Force, yet it seems pretty strong with his offspring, Kylo Ren. He would have only inherited it from half his parents (Leia).

I think Rey's parents will turn out to be someone familiar to us, someone we've already seen elsewhere in the series. It seems like if it turns out they're just a couple of random people who abandoned her on Jakkuu, it would be a missed opportunity for a dramatic twist in the story. I had half expected her to recognize Luke as her dad at the end, but it seems not.

 

[isseldor]

Well General Grevious could use a saber so I don't think just Sith and Jedi could use them. I definitely think that Rey is Luke's Daughter. The old bug eyed lady in the bar said as much, "the is light saber was Luke's and his fathers before him and now it calls out to you." It will turn out to be some kind of Jedi memory wipe or something. But she will end up remembering everything.

Over all I really liked it, the only problem I had was the Snoke character. Why was he a 30 foot hologram? It just seemed weird and out of place.

 

[hunter_le five]

Why did Luke go into hiding? Because the First Order wanted him dead. That part is easy enough.

I believe what was said in the movie was that Luke felt responsible for the downfall of Han and Leia's son, whom he was training, and THAT was why he went into seclusion.

But where did this map to his location come from? And how come R2-D2 had most of it? Who made the map?

I assume Luke himself made it, since R2 was his droid and R2 had the map. I figure he left it with R2 so that others could find him when the time was right.

But why R2 only had part of it, and the guy Jakkuu had the other part, I don't know. To make it more difficult to find him I guess.

Why do they need to bring Luke back in now? What's changed?

I would guess because the tide of the war seems to be turning against the rebellion again, what with the new superweapon, and Kylo Ren (Luke's former protégé) running around killing everyone. I guess.

My wife also suggested that Finn might have The Force. She was under the impression that only someone with The Force is able to wield a light saber. I don't recall there being any such restriction.

There doesn't seem to be much indication that he has the force, but it seemed kind of silly how well he did weilding the lightsaber against Kylo Ren for someone supposedly lacking in the force, so maybe.

 

[hunter_le five]

Overall I like the movie. Much better than I-III. Not as good as V. But there did seem to be a lot of plot holes (or potential plot holes that have yet to be explained).

The pacing of the movie was a bit too intense. While it kept the film from being as boring as II and III, it also limited character development of the new characters, and limited the amount of storybuilding. There was so much ground to cover in 2 hours and 15 minutes that everything kind of felt crammed-in at times. If the movie was an hour longer, I think it really could have filled in some of the holes and built up the characters better.

Especially with Kylo Ren. His motivations were never really clear. He was Luke's apprentice, and for some reason was "seduced" to the dark side. Yeah, I know, this was all the explanation you got for Vader in IV, but then you have Kylo Ren running around the movie basically just yelling out his emotions at the audience (I AM CONFLICTED!), rather than really showing them or developing the backstory to explain them, which is just sloppy writing, and is a poor way of trying to develop a complex character (I AM A BAD GUY, BUT I FEEL THE LIGHT CALLING ME!).

Finn and Rey were nice additions, and I think they will do well as the new protagonists. I wish Finn's backstory could have been developed a bit more, as some of the things he says and does seem odd for a person who was raised from childhood to be a Storm Trooper. The mysteriousness/vagueness of Rey's background seems to actually work better for her character.

Han's death did not surprise me, but was sad because he was always my favorite character in the original trilogy. I don't expect any of the old cast to last much longer, as they finish the transition over to the new cast. He and Leia were definitely showing their age though. Watching Han try to run away from CGI bad guys was just kind of sad-looking.

The whole bit with the New Order is kind of weird, but I'm interested to see where it goes. I don't quite understand where it fits in relationship to the old empire, the republic, etc. I'm guessing they were just the remaining undestroyed Empire military units that have regrouped under a new banner?

The biggest letdown was the new enemy base. Oh, great, it's ANOTHER Death Star. How original. Yeah, okay, it's a planet this time, but whatever, it's just Death Star no. 3.

 

[JoshuaW]

While I subscribe to the theory that Finn might be Force-Positive, it is clear that the storm troopers receive melee weapon training. We saw that when he was fighting the storm trooper. The reason I think he has the force more has to do with his abilities to pickup and react quickly. In the Tie Fighter, in the Millennium Falcon, when fighting Kylo, etc. He reacted quickly and on par with others we have seen that are force positive. While he got his ass kicked by Kylo, he was actually able to fight him and didnt get instantly slaughtered. The presence of the force might also explain why he wasnt brainwashed during the storm trooper training, he retained some of his individuality, which implies he is "special" in some way.

 

[Pappers_]

I really liked the big, over-arching story that this was about finding Luke Skywalker. Everything's gone to hell, evil is rising and they need to find the last Jedi, who has gone into seclusion and hermitage. And they find him but we don't have any closure - so many questions are left.

What I didn't like about the story was the whole death planet thing - again. Oh my god, for the third time they've blown up the giant weapon. Seriously, this was like Robot Chicken was doing a satire. Please, please, don't build another giant round mega weapon.

 

[hunter_le five]

What I didn't like about the story was the whole death planet thing - again. Oh my god, for the third time they've blown up the giant weapon. Seriously, this was like Robot Chicken was doing a satire. Please, please, don't build another giant round mega weapon.

This.

 

[Homercidal]

It could be that the Rebellion has been looking for Luke for a long time already, but just recently recovered a piece of the map that shows where he is. Perhaps THAT is why both they and the First Order seemed to just now be looking for him. Up until then, there wasn't enough to go on to make a movie out of.

Can't say if Finn has Force powers, but I know from past events that you don't need The Force to wield a Lightsaber. Han use Luke's to cut open the Tauntaun on Hoth. "And I thought they smelled bad... on the OUTSIDE!"

Part of what excited me for the rest of the movies is the fact that although this one moved really fast, we might expect things to slow down a bit in the next movie as Rey begins her training and we see more of what happened to Luke. Finn is likely to join the Rebellion and rejoin some of the others. I'm not sure how much of his backstory they will present, but I think his honesty and caring nature make for an interesting protagonist.

And let's not forget about Captain Phasma! Remember her? The one who looked and sounded really cool in the preview information and who we only got to see for a few seconds (like when she was "Forced" to drop the shields on the Starkiller? I mean, what kind of loyal member of the First Order wouldn't choose death than to risk losing the massive, expensive, and powerful weapon they spent years in building??" Anyway, she's going to be back, and I expect her to be a LOT more badass than she was in this one!

I liked Rey's character. From her solitary upbringing, scavenging, and dealing with undesirables, I think she's well suited to taking the reins from Han Solo, AND Luke Skywalker. (Luke is my choice to be her father, BTW. I don't have any solid proof, but I just think he fits better.) In one of the book series (not canon) Han and Leia had twins. I don't expect this to be the case this time as it would be extremely unlikely that no mention of another child was made in their communications with anyone. Then again, a skilled writer might be able to put her in as Kylo's sister.

If she were Luke's offspring, you have to winder who he boned to get a daughter... I have joked with my buddies that she's actually the love child of Luke and Leia. This explains her gift of the Force.

 

[Homercidal]

Although I think they could have tried harder to come up with a new killer device, it's hard to top a planet-killing moon. I frankly enjoyed seeing the differences in this one.

One of the things I liked about it was the throwback to the original movie AND ROTJ.

What I'm wondering is why didn't they have a much larger ship jump in close after the shields were down and pump that thing full of hot plasma, rather than send in a bunch of wimpy fighters dropping tiny bombs on it... maybe the Rebellion is out of large ships? Oh well, I tried not to dwell on some of that stuff. Suspension of disbelief is your friend.

 

[MaddBaggins]

Well General Grevious could use a saber so I don't think just Sith and Jedi could use them. I definitely think that Rey is Luke's Daughter. The old bug eyed lady in the bar said as much, "the is light saber was Luke's and his fathers before him and now it calls out to you." It will turn out to be some kind of Jedi memory wipe or something. But she will end up remembering everything.

Over all I really liked it, the only problem I had was the Snoke character. Why was he a 30 foot hologram? It just seemed weird and out of place.

They pulled out Lukes old blue saber? That one was lost on Bespin. He made the green one after that. Hmmm
I haven't seen it yet, but I'm not scared of spoilers so I'm reading this thread for tips on what things to really pay attention to.

 

[Homercidal]

They pulled out Lukes old blue saber? That one was lost on Bespin. He made the green one after that. Hmmm
I haven't seen it yet, but I'm not scared of spoilers so I'm reading this thread for tips on what things to really pay attention to.

According to Wookipedia, a character in the new movie had somehow managed to come across the lightsaber. I imagine it was recovered on Bepsin. I can't remember if it fell out of the antenna port when Luke slid down the tube and clung to the antenna, but anyway, it's supposed to be the original that was handed down from Anniken/Vader.

What's interesting, and I never thought of it until now, is that Rey has a flashback when she first touches the hilt. I think Luke still had it when Kylo Ren betrays him during his training. So this means that somehow Luke had either managed to find his lightsaber and give it to the person who held onto it, or he somehow lost it between when Kylo Ren betrayed him and when Rey meets the person holding it.

The details are sketchy. I'mma go see EPVII again and pay attention better.

 

[MaddBaggins]

Interesting.
I have tickets for saturday morning. I can't wait!

 

[JohnnyO]

Just saw it last night. Holy crap it was awesome. Sure, the plot was akin to ANH, but they HAD to do this to repair our faith after what was done in the prequels. So many different plotlines developed in this. So excited for what's to come.

A lot of little throwbacks were in it too. From the chess game in the Falcon to Finn finding the old training droid that ObiWan had Luke use.

The last battle scene between Kylo Ren and Rey was amazing.

 

[LandoLincoln]

What I didn't like about the story was the whole death planet thing - again. Oh my god, for the third time they've blown up the giant weapon. Seriously, this was like Robot Chicken was doing a satire. Please, please, don't build another giant round mega weapon.

I like that when it was blowing up, Snoke was all, "Fine, just abandon the planet and grab Kylo before you leave." He was totally expecting the sucker to be blown to smithereens just like the previous two. One of these days they'll figure out that making these planet killers is just not working out.

How did Luke's old lightsaber make it into some old box? Wasn't that light saber lost when Vader chopped off Luke's hand?

How did Vader's old helmet make it to Kylo? Wasn't that helmet lost when Death Star mark II was destroyed?

 

[Brettomomyces]

How did Vader's old helmet make it to Kylo? Wasn't that helmet lost when Death Star mark II was destroyed?

I believe it's the helmet he was wearing during the funeral pyre in VI, meaning somebody there must have grabbed it. Maybe Luke? So Kylo finds out about Vader being his granddaddy and gets a big ol Sith boner and steals the helmet?

 

[Ridire]

Wasn't it pretty much disclosed that Rey's father is Luke? In her flashback, R2 is there, so her parents are obviously a known quantity. Someone with a robotic right hand touches R2 in that flashback...all points to Luke being the father.

 

[Ridire]

I believe it's the helmet he was wearing during the funeral pyre in VI, meaning somebody there must have grabbed it. Maybe Luke? So Kylo finds out about Vader being his granddaddy and gets a big ol Sith boner and steals the helmet?

Vader's "body"/suit was burned on Endor. Luke did not leave him on Death Star II.

 

[hunter_le five]

Yup.

 

[drainbamage]

I liked it. I didn't have the highest hopes when they announced that they were going ahead with the sequels after how the prequels turned out, but I got the proper amount of nostalgia and excitement for a new series after seeing The Force Awakens.

Kylo Ren seemed like an interesting character at first, until he took his mask off and the acting veered towards "you guys, I'M SO CONFLICTED." Yeah, I get it.

I believe what was said in the movie was that Luke felt responsible for the downfall of Han and Leia's son, whom he was training, and THAT was why he went into seclusion.

Seemed like a parallel to Obi-Wan becoming a hermit from the guilt of Anakin turning to the dark side.

According to Wookipedia, a character in the new movie had somehow managed to come across the lightsaber. I imagine it was recovered on Bepsin. I can't remember if it fell out of the antenna port when Luke slid down the tube and clung to the antenna, but anyway, it's supposed to be the original that was handed down from Anniken/Vader.

I thought it fell into the "bottomless pit" in the station on Bespin when Vader cut off his hand.

I'm in agreement that Rey is going to be Luke's daughter. The foreshadowing was not so subtle. I just kind of wish they'd go with some plot twists other than "so-and-so's the dad". It was a big reveal in The Empire Strikes Back, but use it too much and I feel like I'm just watching Maury.

 

[Ridire]

Kylo Ren seemed like an interesting character at first, until he took his mask off and the acting veered towards "you guys, I'M SO CONFLICTED." Yeah, I get it.



Seemed like a parallel to Obi-Wan becoming a hermit from the guilt of Anakin turning to the dark side.

1. I felt the conflict was totally faked to lower Han's guard. But I agree that the characters are being rushed through. They are not taking enough time to allow the viewer to get to understand the characters. They jammed as much backstory into E7 as in E4-E6 combined.

2. Obi-Wan didn't go into exile over guilt. He went to Tatooine to watch over Luke. Owen was but a farmer and incapable of keeping Luke safe...unlike Organa could with Leia.

Wow, I feel nerdy having said all of that...

 

[Ridire]

I was half expecting Snoke to be Luke. I guess it's still not an impossibility, but there are issues with that being the case.

 

[olotti]

Wasn't it pretty much disclosed that Rey's father is Luke? In her flashback, R2 is there, so her parents are obviously a known quantity. Someone with a robotic right hand touches R2 in that flashback...all points to Luke being the father.

Very true. Also in the books Luke has offspring however the she is a he so looks like they just changed the gender. On the light saber note, that saber started with obi won giving it to luke which came from anakin and now it's being passed down again in the bloodline, while they don't come out and tell you that the writing is on the wall. Also once Rae acknowledges her newfound power r2-d2 springs back to life, I'm guessing it's the fact a skywalker who is strong with the force is nearby and this is what powers him back up.

Supreme leader Snoke is rumored to be darth plageus the wise, whom if you remember was killed by darth sideous, but he is so powerful he can defy death permanently however it's just rumor but one I think could be true. He's using kylo ten to do his dirty work and rumor has it when the sky walker and the last Jedi are eradicated he'll make himself known and take over. He's a hologram much in the way the emperor was when he was communicating with vader in his pod, I believe Snoke is just on another planet and this is how he's communicating. He's also 40 feet tall that is true to the books I believe, he's a humanoid/alien being, while I was surprised at just how big he was that is how he is supposed to be represented.

The kylo ren character was interesting to me. I can only assume they expand more on how he fell prey to the dark side, that is a huge storyline. I found his character demise interesting. He started out like a bad ass, stopping a blaster bolt mid flight was pretty sweet but then just crumbles towards the end proving he really isn't as powerful as he once thought. I'm interested to see how he develops in the next one, the Galaxy needs a great bad ass villain.

Overall I thought it was really well done. It was fast moving and just so much to cram in 2+ hrs I expect the pace to slow and more back story and character development to be seen in the next couple. 2017 is going to be a long wait.

 

[Ridire]

Supreme leader Snoke is rumored to be darth plageus the wise, whom if you remember was killed by darth sideous..

I just read that theory today

 

[olotti]

I just read that theory today

I really think it's plausible plus in the end he says that now is the time to complete kylo Rens training and this would be the Sith Lord/apprentice scenario like we've seen in movies past. I think this theory/rumor holds a lot of weight.

 

[Ridire]

I really think it's plausible plus in the end he says that now is the time to complete kylo Rens training and this would be the Sith Lord/apprentice scenario like we've seen in movies past. I think this theory/rumor holds a lot of weight.

Impossible for Snoke to be Sidius, who has learned the secrets of Plegeus prior to being cast into the abyss in Jedi?

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

I thought it might be nice to have a thread where people who've already seen the film can discuss it openly without having to worry about spoiling it for other people.

If you haven't seen it yet, and don't want to learn any spoilers, STOP READING NOW.

My wife and I saw it yesterday, I thought it was excellent. My main complaint, if I had to come up with one, has to do with the motivation for the whole plot, really. The whole idea of the map to Luke Skywalker's hidden location. It seemed a little contrived to me.

Why did Luke go into hiding? Because the First Order wanted him dead. That part is easy enough. But where did this map to his location come from? And how come R2-D2 had most of it? Who made the map? Why do they need to bring Luke back in now? What's changed? The First Order is still trying to kill him, so why did the Rebels pick now to go and find him. Presumably, he's only in danger because this map exists, and the First Order was trying to get their hands on it. Which brings me back to my question: Where did this map come from, and who made it? If it had never been made, then Luke could have stayed hidden in seclusion, right? Am I missing something here?

My wife also suggested that Finn might have The Force. She was under the impression that only someone with The Force is able to wield a light saber. I don't recall there being any such restriction.

Also, any speculation on who Rey's parents might be? I thought that The Force was genetic - it stayed within bloodlines. But then my wife reminded me that Jedi are celibate, and thus The Force would die out pretty quickly if it didn't spontaneously manifest in people. Also, Han didn't have the Force, yet it seems pretty strong with his offspring, Kylo Ren. He would have only inherited it from half his parents (Leia).

I think Rey's parents will turn out to be someone familiar to us, someone we've already seen elsewhere in the series. It seems like if it turns out they're just a couple of random people who abandoned her on Jakkuu, it would be a missed opportunity for a dramatic twist in the story. I had half expected her to recognize Luke as her dad at the end, but it seems not.

SO I'm sure everything has been answered here but you brought up a few points that were interesting.

1. I agree the map thing being odd. As far as R2 having the other part, it was obviously in the Empire's records so I'm sure it was later confuscated by the New Republic, etc.

2. There's no requirement for force sensitives and light sabers. As you can see with this battle from CLone Wars

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoSayqv1TVI[/ame]

3. The Force isn't genetic. Given the Jedi code of not procreating and love and so on so forth. Vader was immaculately conceived by Midichlorians. So the skywalker family has heavy force connections.

4. I think Luke is the father. I think Rey doesn't remember her parents well though. I think the mother was an apprentice of Luke's who Kylo killed. Explains how Han kind of recognized her, Leia knowingly embraced her instead of Chewie, but Kylo didn't

 

[GHBWNY]

I think Rey's parents will turn out to be someone familiar to us, someone we've already seen elsewhere in the series.

I think her father is Luke Skywalker, as per the scene at the end. Their wordless discourse was punctuated by facial gestures that seemed to say, "Father", and vice-versa. Even if not, I think they'll somehow team up in the next one.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

I really think it's plausible plus in the end he says that now is the time to complete kylo Rens training and this would be the Sith Lord/apprentice scenario like we've seen in movies past. I think this theory/rumor holds a lot of weight.

I don't think Snoak is Plagueis. BUT he's obviously very powerful if he was able to hide from Sidious.

 

[olotti]

Impossible for Snoke to be Sidius, who has learned the secrets of Plegius prior to being cast into the abyss in Jedi?

Snoke could be darth plagius who mentored darth sideous until sideous killed him in his sleep. I find it interesting that Snoke said now is the time to complete kylo RENs training as if he is the one training him and doesn't that only happen from a sith/apprentice relationship type. Idk

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Snoke could be darth plagius who mentored darth sideous until sideous killed him in his sleep. I find it interesting that Snoke said now is the time to complete kylo RENs training as if he is the one training him and doesn't that only happen from a sith/apprentice relationship type. Idk

Yes. But that doesn't mean that Snoke has to be Plagueis.

Snoke is (by the movie's presentation though who knows there could be a puppet master) the master. Ren was in training. Killing Han was the thing he had to do to become a sith lord. Similar to how Luke had to face Vader and not turn to become a Jedi Knight.

 

[olotti]

Yes. But that doesn't mean that Snoke has to be Plagueis.

Snoke is (by the movie's presentation though who knows there could be a puppet master) the master. Ren was in training. Killing Han was the thing he had to do to become a sith lord. Similar to how Luke had to face Vader and not turn to become a Jedi Knight.

Agree, yeah I'm not saying he is plagius but it wouldn't surprise me if he was. I can see that kylo ren killing his father would've been the last thing he had to do to completely convert him to the dark side, I don't think he's sith level yet but doing this completely converts him to the dark side like anakin going after his mentor. However I'm surprised that ren almost got his but kicked by a guy who'd never even held a light saber before, that should've been a one sided affair but can't kill of fin right away.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Agree, yeah I'm not saying he is plagius but it wouldn't surprise me if he was. I can see that kylo ren killing his father would've been the last thing he had to do to completely convert him to the dark side, I don't think he's sith level yet but doing this completely converts him to the dark side like anakin going after his mentor. However I'm surprised that ren almost got his but kicked by a guy who'd never even held a light saber before, that should've been a one sided affair but can't kill of fin right away.

Well what confuses me about Ren's battle (and I'm sure it was on purpose to show a flaw) was he could have just bested Finn with a force push or choke. Instead he opted for the violent kill. Kind of similar with Rey but he knows Rey has the force and is very powerful with it and he likely fears she's more powerful than him.

 

[Ridire]

I was disappointed that Spock and Kirk didn't have a more prominent role in the new film...

 

[Barley_Bob]

The pacing of the movie was a bit too intense. While it kept the film from being as boring as II and III, it also limited character development of the new characters, and limited the amount of storybuilding. There was so much ground to cover in 2 hours and 15 minutes that everything kind of felt crammed-in at times. If the movie was an hour longer, I think it really could have filled in some of the holes and built up the characters better.
.

This is my biggest problem with the movie by far. There was a moment, like, half way through where I looked at Rey and realized she still hadn't found 5 minutes to take a shower and change her clothes. Come on. Because it's so fast paced, you never get to see the characters grapple with what's happening to them. It works sometimes. The few slow moments are more dramatic because they're actually slow, but it would be way better with some extra time added just for pacing. Those few slow moments, by the way, are totally lionized by Kylo Ren, making him the most developed new character by far.

The other things I didn't like were -
1. Captain Phasma. Seriously, what a waste of Gwendaline Christie.
2. Poe's ridiculous sequence where he blows up like half a dozen tie fighters and several storm troopers in mere seconds.
3. Poe in general. He's a great pilot, and that's all we've got for such an important character. He should have died.
3. Death Star III. I really was just not invested in one more canyon run.

But the movie was very good. All the new main characters were good, although Rey was somewhat bland by the end. She needs a lot more fleshing out. I liked Kylo Ren, and my favorite was Finn. The lightsaber battles were great, and the aerial combat was a lot of fun.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

What I didn't like about the story was the whole death planet thing - again. Oh my god, for the third time they've blown up the giant weapon. Seriously, this was like Robot Chicken was doing a satire. Please, please, don't build another giant round mega weapon.

Yes, but the idea of the first order mimicking the Empire would indicate their desire to have a similar weapon and succeed where the Empire failed. And you could argue that they did. As they wiped out a system, and then got out of there with minimal casualties to leadership. Snoke, Ren, the General (forget his name) and Phasma are all alive (unless Phasma is only in episode VIII as a flash back she's confirmed to return) It had a failure but that failure required a good amount of work to take care of.

I do agree that it's reached critical mass. I think they should focus instead on other plot lines. I'd even go with something different like a super fast and effective transport that lets Ren go where he wants to super fast and be extra devastating.

 

[olotti]

Well what confuses me about Ren's battle (and I'm sure it was on purpose to show a flaw) was he could have just bested Finn with a force push or choke. Instead he opted for the violent kill. Kind of similar with Rey but he knows Rey has the force and is very powerful with it and he likely fears she's more powerful than him.

That's what makes kylo ren's character interesting to me, like anakin you see the pull between good and evil throughout the movie and somehow in the battle between Rae and Finn the light sabers were cutting trees in half but somehow ren couldn't best Finn with his back turned to him, but I get why. I think like others have said in you tube clips I've watched Ren was not only physically weakend in the last fight but also mentally weakened.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

I don't buy him being Physically weak since he overtook Rey and Finn. What I think is he was filled with rage and so on so forth. Especially seeing someone with a Skywalker lightsaber, especially one that people thought was lost. To him logic left and rage took over. Logic would have had him take down Finn quickly by throwing him to a tree and taking the saber from him. But he wasn't thinking logically. Which I think is more to your last point.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

1. Captain Phasma. Seriously, what a waste of Gwendaline Christie.

I don't really want to address the other points as they're mostly opinions and opinions are just that.

But Christie is on for the nextfilm. Maybe it will only be as a flashback, but I doubt it. My guess is she went in the compactor and escaped and then escaped the planet in disgrace.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I don't really want to address the other points as they're mostly opinions and opinions are just that.

But Christie is on for the nextfilm. Maybe it will only be as a flashback, but I doubt it. My guess is she went in the compactor and escaped and then escaped the planet in disgrace.

Well, this is a thread for opinions and theories, so address observations at will!

I've heard she'll be back and I agree with your assessment, but they need to make some serious lemonade out of this lemon.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

You'd like a more fleshed out character rather than one who's entirety essentially came talking about Finn. I hope Phasma becomes a bounty hunter or gets back into it with the military and gets her battle with Finn that she deserves.