The recipes I posted in my recipes link under my avatar ued Munton's plain light DME with Cooper's cans & hops. I like Munton's plain light DME for that classic pale ale color & the English flavor complexities.
Salvaging the Hobby
- Thread starter TheCADJockey
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OP
OP
TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
Oh boy. Just read that if you don't remove the boil from heat while you add a liquid malt extract, it can add a burnt flavor! I so hope this is not the case. My brew pot is pretty heavy duty, but the wort was a quite dark chocolate color. The stress is back! On a lighter note... its nice to be thinking about my home brew every spare minute of the day 
You can sample the beer now and see if it's burnt tasting...
BGBC
Well-Known Member
Also you probably would have noticed some scorching on the bottom of the pot after you removed the wort.
OP
OP
TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
No scorching whatsoever. My pot is cleaned and stored, looks brand new. If what you say is true, I will not worry over it and will stay strong for the next two days keeping to the plan:
Saturday, 13th (Day 10 - Adjusted due to suggestions to 10 from 7): I will transfer to my carboy and dry hop with my package of Citra.
I just need to work out what actual day is F.G. reading and preparation for bottling. Recipe read 5-7 days primary 5-14 secondary, I believe. One thing at a time though.
ericbw
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You might not want to dry hop for more than a week in secondary. Dry hop for the last 5-7 days if secondary.
^^ this^^
So Saturday makes 10? You can likely check it out on Thursday or Friday. I like to dry hop for about 5 days. I can plan for 5 but if I get busy I know 6 or 7 won't kill me. 7 is absolutely my max just based on what I've read.
OP
OP
TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
Yes Saturday is the 10th day. According to the recipe I should've moved to secondary yesterday, but I trust the opinion of the friendly people helping me here more. So I will secondary on the 10th day, Saturday 9/13 and it sounds like I misunderstood the recipe on dry hopping. I will wait until the final week then, so maybe looking at 9/19 or so. I have a big dry erase board at work with a small list of projects laid out on it, and a huge schedule for this beer taking up the rest :cross:
The Nugget hops from the garden were dried and vacuum sealed last night. I ended up with 13 three ounce bags. I'm happy.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
You can't go wrong if you get a 5 gallon bucket and mix up 3-4 gallons of star san solution and have it available all the time. Remember a 2 minute contact time is what is needed, not just a quick rinse. All your transfer lines, fermenters, sampling equipment, anything that touches the beer after it cools from boiling, should get the 2 minute treatment. l submerge my bottles in there before filling. This may be overkill, but I have too much time invested to waste it getting an infection.
I use 1/4 cup corn sugar per gallon for priming. Get a dedicated priming bucket with a spigot or a Walmart cheap water dispenser for under $10 for bottling.
Again all that stuff get the star san treatment.
You can solve mash temp problems by getting a $20 walmart round cooler and a
$7 BIAB bag. Add the grains and strike water to the cooler with the bag stir real good and and you can pretty much forget about it. Pull the bag and siphon or dump the mash into your kettle. Put the bag back in and add your sparge water, and repeat. You can add a ball valve kit later, it's a lot less messy.
Look up a mash temp calculators on the web, there are some around for free.
Hope that helps your salvage operation, good luck.
I use 1/4 cup corn sugar per gallon for priming. Get a dedicated priming bucket with a spigot or a Walmart cheap water dispenser for under $10 for bottling.
Again all that stuff get the star san treatment.
You can solve mash temp problems by getting a $20 walmart round cooler and a
$7 BIAB bag. Add the grains and strike water to the cooler with the bag stir real good and and you can pretty much forget about it. Pull the bag and siphon or dump the mash into your kettle. Put the bag back in and add your sparge water, and repeat. You can add a ball valve kit later, it's a lot less messy.
Look up a mash temp calculators on the web, there are some around for free.
Hope that helps your salvage operation, good luck.
bobeer
Fermentation Specalist
It's awesome you're getting back into the hobby! I think once you get a couple tasty brews under your belt all the worry and stress will fade away and confidence will ensue. Then it's on!
Your hop harvest looks amazing btw... I cannot wait to grow my own. As a side note, I've read on here that using home grown hops for your bittering hops is sort of a crap shoot. You don't really know how high the alpha acids are in the hops so you don't really know how bitter they'll be or how much to use in your beer. People suggest still using store bought hops for bittering and then use your home grown hops for flavor, aroma and dry hops. Just some food for thought. Of course this is totally up to you but I figured I'd at least mention it.
I hope your pale ale turns out well! Keep us posted
Your hop harvest looks amazing btw... I cannot wait to grow my own. As a side note, I've read on here that using home grown hops for your bittering hops is sort of a crap shoot. You don't really know how high the alpha acids are in the hops so you don't really know how bitter they'll be or how much to use in your beer. People suggest still using store bought hops for bittering and then use your home grown hops for flavor, aroma and dry hops. Just some food for thought. Of course this is totally up to you but I figured I'd at least mention it.
I hope your pale ale turns out well! Keep us posted
OP
OP
TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
Thanks friend! I'm so very excited, I haven't had something so fulfilling in my life in a while. Work just engulfed everything and now I'm escaping back through brewing. This first one is definitely just nerve wracking
I love hops so much, spicy, citrusy, flowery I don't care... I mean, I have heard that its hard to tell as well. I might crack open a bag and try some funky stuff with them, tea, soap, candles I don't know.. maybe I'll throw some in a pasta sauce or something I can hardly contain the anticipation of racking to secondary, cleaning up and brewing a spicy little somethin' this weekend. I may be leaning towards a witbier. Who knows!? Can't wait.
bobeer
Fermentation Specalist
a spicy witbier sounds good. Just in time for fall's arrival too! This is my favorite time of year to brew other than during a snow storm. I'm sure you get plenty of that in Buffalo!
Hop soap sounds awesome! I'd love to walk around all day and smell like hops
Hop soap sounds awesome! I'd love to walk around all day and smell like hops
Having just finished reading through the whole thread, I think I would like to nominate 'Hello' for 'most helpful poster of the month'! Although 'uniondr' was as helpful as always and should get honorable mention.
'CADjockey'- your techniques and instincts seem mostly right on, you just need to develop some more confidence. How? If you don't have it already, pick up a copy of the latest version of John Palmer's "How to Brew". Read it, study it, love it. Then check out some of the other books available. Spend way too much time on this forum (you already have that one down). And most importantly, Brew and brew again. We all make mistakes, the key is learning from them. A wise man(Charlie P. I think) once said that "Brewers make wort, yeast make beer". As long as we don't get in their way, the yeast will do their job well. Good Luck!
'CADjockey'- your techniques and instincts seem mostly right on, you just need to develop some more confidence. How? If you don't have it already, pick up a copy of the latest version of John Palmer's "How to Brew". Read it, study it, love it. Then check out some of the other books available. Spend way too much time on this forum (you already have that one down). And most importantly, Brew and brew again. We all make mistakes, the key is learning from them. A wise man(Charlie P. I think) once said that "Brewers make wort, yeast make beer". As long as we don't get in their way, the yeast will do their job well. Good Luck!
OP
OP
TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
Happy Monday :cross:
Just an update on the salvage project for those interested:
Unexpected obligations were had this weekend, preventing me from racking the pale ale. I am transferring from Primary to Secondary this evening when I get home from work. Today makes it 12 days in Primary.
Should I take a hydrometer reading when I rack tonight or just wait until I dry hop it in a week or so?
Once F.G. is reached, I read (if I understood it correctly) that dropping the temp. can help it clear it up even more before bottling. If this is true, would it make sense to just take a rack out of my refrigerator and put it in there? How long do you let it chill this way, or am I way off and just making things up?
Just an update on the salvage project for those interested:
Unexpected obligations were had this weekend, preventing me from racking the pale ale. I am transferring from Primary to Secondary this evening when I get home from work. Today makes it 12 days in Primary.
Should I take a hydrometer reading when I rack tonight or just wait until I dry hop it in a week or so?
Once F.G. is reached, I read (if I understood it correctly) that dropping the temp. can help it clear it up even more before bottling. If this is true, would it make sense to just take a rack out of my refrigerator and put it in there? How long do you let it chill this way, or am I way off and just making things up?
People do it all kinds of ways. You could dryhop in the primary now and rack it to secondary in 5 days or so, THEN chill.
or you could rack now and add dry hops and then chill in 5 days then bottle when it's cleared up some.
or you could rack now and add dry hops and then chill in 5 days then bottle when it's cleared up some.
Use your hydrometer to be sure it's at FG before racking anywhere. And make sure your secondary has little head space, is clean & sanitized before racking the beer. Ideally, the secondary should be 5 gallons for 5 gallons of beer to minimize o2 exposure from too much head space. I dry hop in primary myself, after the beer has settled out clear or slightly misty. Less chance for infection or oxidizing that way. but the choice is a personal one, all said & done.
SupervisingChildren
Well-Known Member
When I've dry hopped it's almost always been in primary. My 2 cents would be to dry hop, then transfer to secondary, then cold crash. At least you'll have an idea how much beer you have as the hops could in theory soak up some beer when dry hopping. That will give you an idea of how much priming sugar to use as you'll know how much beer you're trying to carbonate.
And if you need any bottles let me know as I just got 2 cases with a craigslist purchase.
And if you need any bottles let me know as I just got 2 cases with a craigslist purchase.
OP
OP
TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
I was definitely thinking I would just buy a few cases of new bottles to at least build the collection a bit more.
Now I'm torn on my entire process, I thought I had it figured out. My main regret I guess is fermenting in the bucket, I wish I could see it. So... I guess I will now do this:
Go home tonight, take hydro reading (Day 12)
Go home wednesday, take hydro reading (Day 14)
If it is done cooking, toss in the dry hop and wait 4-5 days?
I don't know whats going on now. The recipe made it sound so easy.
edit: I am stopping by the lhbs on way home to get more sanitizer, will likely see if I can pick up an autosiphon as well since i've never had one.
Now I'm torn on my entire process, I thought I had it figured out. My main regret I guess is fermenting in the bucket, I wish I could see it. So... I guess I will now do this:
Go home tonight, take hydro reading (Day 12)
Go home wednesday, take hydro reading (Day 14)
If it is done cooking, toss in the dry hop and wait 4-5 days?
I don't know whats going on now. The recipe made it sound so easy.
edit: I am stopping by the lhbs on way home to get more sanitizer, will likely see if I can pick up an autosiphon as well since i've never had one.
I usually dry hop 7 days, but only after it settles out clear or slightly misty first. You don't want the hop oils coating trub & such then going to the bottom.
OP
OP
TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
Ok so maybe I should stop researching. I feel like its doing more harm than good. The more I learn, the more it makes me think I do so much wrong. Just read a few articles on cold crashing and it seems like this is not a good idea for my situation. For one, it sounds like doing it in a refrigerator is a bad idea due to fluctuating temperatures and I likely would not even get it to the required temperature. That being said, maybe this one will have to just get dry hopped and rely on whatever clarity I can get simply by racking to secondary and calling it done. In the future, I can plan on adding a wort chiller to my processes as well as better temperature control during fermentation.
Again, thanks to everyone for the support throughout this revitalization brew. It has been a great help to be able to talk through it. I look forward to seeing how this turns out and being able to post hopefully, a gloriously dramatic picture of the beer under a gorgeous sunset.
Again, thanks to everyone for the support throughout this revitalization brew. It has been a great help to be able to talk through it. I look forward to seeing how this turns out and being able to post hopefully, a gloriously dramatic picture of the beer under a gorgeous sunset.
OP
OP
TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
Looks like everyone ferments in carboys according to a thread on here. Maybe I should ditch my bucket that came with the kit and just buy some glass carboys tonight. So mad. I want to see what its doing in there.
No way that's right. The vast majority of people on here still ferment in 6.5 gallon plastic buckets (most who use carboys at all use them for "secondary fermentation" or longer-term bulk aging). And plenty of people brew award winning beer using a single 6.5 gallon plastic bucket and never transfering their beer until it goes into the bottling bucket (or a keg). My strong suggestion is skip the carboys for now and get a few decent brews under your belt before you start messing with your system. Of course if you really want to brew in a glass (or plastic) carboy that won't hurt your beer quality, and you will get a nice view of the beer as it's fermenting. But there's little to suggest it will help your end product in any way.
If you do go the carboy route, a few things to think about:
- if you still plan to brew 5 gallon batches, you'll need 6+ gallon carboys, not the standard 5 gallon ones -- you need head space for the fermentation to carry on without blowing tons of wort and yeast out the airlock.
- if you go with glass carboys, make sure you've got a plan for safely moving them when full (lifting by the neck can lead to broken carboys and severe lacerations, which you can find gruesome pics of on HBT if you want to scare yourself). People often use milk crates or carboy carriers for this.
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
That is not even remotely true.
Go ahead and buy carboys if you want, but you can make just as good of beer in a bucket, I assure you. Many of us do.
OP
OP
TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
Ok. Proven wrong again, thank you. Just feel like the kit when I bought it as a broke college kid might have been a cheap start. Slowly trying to get the right equipment.
Did you forget the first rule of hoembrewing, handed down generation to generation from the great founder, Charlie Papazian?
Relax, Don't Worry, Have A Homebrew!
I would not worry about cold crashing. It's not hard, but it's not really all that necessary.
Relax, Don't Worry, Have A Homebrew!
I would not worry about cold crashing. It's not hard, but it's not really all that necessary.
Sounds like time to stop researching! Seems like it's causing you more discontent than it's worth at this point. You've got plenty of brew/sample beer/refine process cycles ahead of you, no need to stress yourself out before you've had a chance to see how the first one comes out!
You'll be fine throwing it in a fridge for a couple of days when you're ready to cold crash. You're not lagering here, just trying to knock the yeast and other solids out of suspension, so temp consistency is not a big deal (BTW, as with every other step of the beermaking proces, you'll find lots of conflicting opinions on what the "perfect temp" for cold crashing would be, or if it really even matters as long as you're somewhere from the 30s to low 40s). I find it's mostly a cosmetic thing anyway (plenty of cloudy beers still taste great) so if it's stressing you out, just skip it! Save a little excitement for your next brew.
Makes sense. I'd start with fermentation temperature control as most people agree that's the #1 thing you can do to improve the quality and consistency of your beer. That was certainly my experience, though again people can and do make fantastic beer without active temp control if they have a closet or basement in the right temp zone. Never brewed without a wort chiller, so I can't say what if anything it does for quality/clarity, but it speeds up the brew day substantially which is good enough for me!
OP
OP
TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
Oh yeah. I struggled for over an hour trying to get this one out of the 100+ temp range and down to where it needed to be. After several ice baths and running out of ice in my cube trays that I should've stocked up on, I ended up running to the store and getting two large bags. Waste of ten bucks but it was getting late. I did get to buy a sandwich for a homeless guy though, so it worked out. I am going to stop reading random stuff and just look things up when I have questions I guess. Everyone seems to have all these crazy systems and I have ... a bucket and a thermometer lol.
Going to chill out I guess. Buy an autosiphon tonight. Take a hydrometer reading, if its at 1.011 as recipe suggest... I'll rack it. Leave it be for another week. Dry hop it last 4 days. Cool it in refrigerator for a day and bottle.
I know a lot of people say skip the secondary right now and just let this one ride, so its confusing to go back and forth thinking about what to do. Regardless. I need to get another one going. If I make another one this week, I would imagine with the right recipe I could have it ready for my bachelor party.
Going to chill out I guess. Buy an autosiphon tonight. Take a hydrometer reading, if its at 1.011 as recipe suggest... I'll rack it. Leave it be for another week. Dry hop it last 4 days. Cool it in refrigerator for a day and bottle.
I know a lot of people say skip the secondary right now and just let this one ride, so its confusing to go back and forth thinking about what to do. Regardless. I need to get another one going. If I make another one this week, I would imagine with the right recipe I could have it ready for my bachelor party.
fuzzy2133
Well-Known Member
Hey I still have my bucket with stick on thermometer and it worked fine. Watching fermentation porn can just encourage messing with the brew rather than leaving it alone.
Again, not something to sweat too much. Having tried both I haven't found much value in a secondary for anything but odd beers (e.g. weird additions that you don't want funking up your beer, months-long fermentations or bulk aging, etc.) But so long as you're careful about sanitation and not splashing, doing a secondary shouldn't hurt anything and might result in a slightly clearer beer, though you can achieve the same result by carefully avoiding the trub while racking straight from the primary fermenter to the bottling bucket, even moreso if you cold crash first.
Tl;dr: If the prospect of a secondary is worrying you, skip it! If you're excited to try a secondary (and can't resist messing around with your beer some more) go for it! Just remember that many find it unnecessary so consider trying a batch without a secondary someday to see if you think it's worthwhile or a waste of time and effort.
@fuzzy-Especially if you don't know what you're looking at.
ericbw
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When is your bachelor party? I thought you said you haven't had anything this fulfilling in your life for a long time. Ha.
OP
OP
TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
Bachelor party is end of October, hehe.
I left work. Bought starsan and an autosiphon. Cleaned everything really well. Started siphoning into the carboy. Leaning to look at how much was left the siphon came out of the beer and sucked air. I now have just under a gallon of beer and startled yeast/trub/whatever the funk on bottom of primary and a perfectly clear amazing tasting ... 4 gallons or whatever in the carboy. I'm, absolutely devastated. I can't believe I slipped up, everything was going perfect. I capped the carboy and have this funky mess left in the primary.
Do I call it a learning experience and leave the mess, let the rest of what went well finish up in the carboy? I tried to get the syphon going again but it was just sucking up mess and in my frustration I couldn't even get it to keep going. I feel like I ruined it because I had to play with all these new toys and try the syphon and secondary deal. Losing my mind right now.
Any suggestion would be gratefully accepted. Can't believe it.
ps. FG was dead on to recipe and held.
I left work. Bought starsan and an autosiphon. Cleaned everything really well. Started siphoning into the carboy. Leaning to look at how much was left the siphon came out of the beer and sucked air. I now have just under a gallon of beer and startled yeast/trub/whatever the funk on bottom of primary and a perfectly clear amazing tasting ... 4 gallons or whatever in the carboy. I'm, absolutely devastated. I can't believe I slipped up, everything was going perfect. I capped the carboy and have this funky mess left in the primary.
Do I call it a learning experience and leave the mess, let the rest of what went well finish up in the carboy? I tried to get the syphon going again but it was just sucking up mess and in my frustration I couldn't even get it to keep going. I feel like I ruined it because I had to play with all these new toys and try the syphon and secondary deal. Losing my mind right now.
Any suggestion would be gratefully accepted. Can't believe it.
ps. FG was dead on to recipe and held.
fuzzy2133
Well-Known Member
IMO dry hop it and remember how much biggier to make the next batch if you do a secondary again.
fuzzy2133
Well-Known Member
Better yet write it all down some place to reference.
OP
OP
TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
So just leave what I got into the carboy, let it finish at 4 1/4 gal orso? Call the rest of what I didn't get waste? It sounds like the best thing to me.. just so upsetting.
fuzzy2133
Well-Known Member
The stuff in left in your bucket is trube. Left over Hop material, break material from the grain/extract and yeast that dropped out of suspension. Not tasty to consume.
Yes I would call it good at 4.5 gallons. The head space would not be ideal if you wanted to go long term secondary but should be ok to dry hop and bottle.
Yes I would call it good at 4.5 gallons. The head space would not be ideal if you wanted to go long term secondary but should be ok to dry hop and bottle.
I agree with everyone else - leave whatever remains in the fermenter in the fermenter, and stick with the 4.25 gallons you've got in the carboy. It's not uncommon to have ~ .5 gallons of trub (yeast + hop residue + other break material) in the bottom of your fermenter, so if you started with exactly 5 gallons in the fermenter, you may not have lost very much beer here.
Having done exactly the same thing you're describing once, it's nothing but a mess trying to restart the autosiphon when you're close to the trub. You'll just end up piping up a bunch of the muck that you racked to secondary to avoid, plus a lot of air as well. Let it be!
