Reinheitsgebot compliant recipes?

[Soulshine2]

Are there any in here? I did a search and all Ive gotten so far is this or that recipe aren't compliant because of this ingredient or that process...sounds like the kosher laws for jewish cuisine.
If there ARE compliant recipes , can we please have a separate folder for them?

 

[Vale71]

Are you sure you want to open up that can of worms? First you have to start with defining what you mean by Rheinheitsgebot. The one from 1516 or the current one? The former will not even let you pitch cultured yeast, the latter is different if you are in Bavaria or in Baden-Württemberg or the rest of Germany...

 

[RPh_Guy]

Just narrow your recipe and process to water, barley, hops, and yeast. Seems easy enough to meet those general requirements.

Recipe:
No wheat/rye/oats/lactose/adjuncts/etc. Just barley.
The later version allows any malted grain though. Pick whichever you like.

Process:
Bottle since adding CO2 isn't allowed.
No priming sugar. Use DME or wort (speise).
No nutrients.
No fining agents including whirlfloc/irish moss/gelatin/etc.
No foam control.
No water additives. Use purified water and sauermalz if needed.

 

[Vale71]

Close, but no cigar. Off the top of my (weak) memory.

You can use anything (wheat, rye, oats, whatever) as long as it is malted and with top-fermenting yeast. Absolutely no unmalted adjuncts.
You can use sugar or sweeteners such as lactose only if it's a top-fermenting yeast.
You can do water additions but must comply with the potable water law (TrinkWasserVerodnung). No additions after mash-in.
You can use nutrients but only in the form of yeast (Servomyces).
There are additives you can use (the list is quite long) but some, such as fining agents, will require sterile filtration for complete removal, so no go for most homebrewers. Absolutely no acid additions but you can use Sauermalz.
No coloring agents except Weyermann's Sinamar.
No bottled CO2, not even for pushing.
Only hops, no spices.
You can use foam control but only HopAid
You can use hop extracts but only hot-side and non-isomerized. Dry hopping with whole hops or pellets is OK.

In Bavaria and BW, additionally:

At least 50% Munich malt if brewing a Dunkel.
At least 50% non-barley malt if making a multi-grain beer. But, you can use less than 50% but must write it on the label.
No sugar or sweeteners, even if it's top-fermented. Mixed drinks are still OK as they cannot be labeled and sold as beer anyway...

And finally, local breweries can ask for exemptions for historical or tradition-related reasons, see for example the Gose style which would not be legal otherwise (spices).

This all really begs the question, "Why, in the name of all that is fermentable? Why do that to oneself if you are not legally required to do so??"

 

[RPh_Guy]

Close

Thanks! I was going for "close"

 

[skw]

@Soulshine2, what is the motivation for this? If you want to brew historical beers, then it depends on year and location - there were places and times in Germany, where hops was banned from beer, and even in Bavaria after 1516, there were exceptions to the famous "barley, hops and water" rule.

If you want to comply with the current German regulation, you'd be surprised of what's actually permitted.

 

[Soulshine2]

Just narrow your recipe and process to water, barley, hops, and yeast. Seems easy enough to meet those general requirements.

Recipe:
No wheat/rye/oats/lactose/adjuncts/etc. Just barley.
The later version allows any malted grain though. Pick whichever you like.

Process:
Bottle since adding CO2 isn't allowed.
No priming sugar. Use DME or wort (speise).
No nutrients.
No fining agents including whirlfloc/irish moss/gelatin/etc.
No foam control.
No water additives. Use purified water and sauermalz if needed.

I could very well make that list happen .
speise, is that German for gyle? I'm already planning that method for a future brew, naturally an oktoberfest.

 

[Soulshine2]

@Soulshine2, what is the motivation for this? If you want to brew historical beers, then it depends on year and location - there were places and times in Germany, where hops was banned from beer, and even in Bavaria after 1516, there were exceptions to the famous "barley, hops and water" rule.

If you want to comply with the current German regulation, you'd be surprised of what's actually permitted.

motivation? curiosity i suppose. another recipe ...why does it matter? whats your motivation to make beer in general?
I own a percussion 54 caliber blackpowder rifle, its like asking whats my motivation is for that.
Because I can.

 

[RPh_Guy]

speise, is that German for gyle?

Yep, more or less.

 

[Vale71]

speise, is that German for gyle?

Actually it's German for "food" or "nutrient". Gyle is actually "Kräusen" which is fermenting wort. Speise is just wort with no yeast.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Once you add them to the beer at bottling, there's no distinction.

 

[applescrap]

I have been wondering again why their beers are so bland and average. [emoji4] Being from Ft. Collins my first visit was a disappointment and the second time just reconfirmed that. Glad this thread reminded me of why. I do love ayinger celebrator though, a lot. Its one of my favorites.

But I dont want to upset the apple cart so here are some recipes I found that look legit and a copy of the english translation. "Punished by court authorities" for disobeying these laws. So at least I offer something other than imo.

https://smallbatchbrew.com.au/celebration-german-beer-styles-recipes-octoberfest/

http://www.brewery.org/library/ReinHeit.html

 

[Die_Beerery]

I brew every beer I brew RHB compliant, along with all my brewing practices and equipment. I don't find it prohibiting. I find it liberating that I can do everything the "hard" way and blow the doors off the "easy" way. I would like to see any "easy" way beers beat this.

 

[applescrap]

I brew every beer I brew RHB compliant, along with all my brewing practices and equipment. I don't find it prohibiting. I find it liberating that I can do everything the "hard" way and blow the doors off the "easy" way. I would like to see any "easy" way beers beat this.

Much respect to your efforts and style. I have read plenty of your work and I dont recall that we have gotten into it all that much. The lodo rhb sounds like it fits you well, I have no problem with that. Maybe you could offer up some recipes then.

 

[Vale71]

I brew every beer I brew RHB compliant, along with all my brewing practices and equipment. I don't find it prohibiting. I find it liberating that I can do everything the "hard" way and blow the doors off the "easy" way. I would like to see any "easy" way beers beat this.

There's absolutely nothing "hard" about RHB compliance, it's only a bunch of protectionist laws which have nothing to do with quality but are just meant to give an illusion of quality and protect large breweries while being disadvantageous to small breweries. Your Government even tried using it to prevent import of beers from other EU countries (von wegen Freizügigkeit) but thankfully the EU promptly shot that down...
What's so hard about using Sinamar instead of caramel or using PVP and then filtering (which all large breweries do anyway)? How should an inevitable zinc deficiency improve beer quality? Or using compressed air instead of CO2 to push beer and counterpressure fill because you are a small brewery and cannot afford to spend over a million Euros on a CO2 recovery plant but are forbidden from using technical CO2? You of all people here should have a fit at the mere thought...
But brewing a beer with unmalted wheat or using coriander is baaaaad, very baaaaaad...

 

[Lefou]

... and here I thought brewing beer was some sort fun hobby, not some obsessive-compulsive pursuit for ill-defined "perfection".

So .... would anyone like some nice gruit ale before you get the hell off my lawn?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Wow so much baggage! I never knew.

To me, brewing to the Reinheitsgebot (the spirit of it -- the actual law is irrelevant) seems like just another challenge, similar to brewing any particular "style" of beer.

 

[Lefou]

Malted barley, hops, water. It's very basic.
All of them, including the yeast might be brewed in the German method and lagerbier style.
Even with these limited ingredients a nice variance can be found and an arguably good beer can be created.

 

[Die_Beerery]

There's absolutely nothing "hard" about RHB compliance, it's only a bunch of protectionist laws which have nothing to do with quality but are just meant to give an illusion of quality and protect large breweries while being disadvantageous to small breweries. Your Government even tried using it to prevent import of beers from other EU countries (von wegen Freizügigkeit) but thankfully the EU promptly shot that down...
What's so hard about using Sinamar instead of caramel or using PVP and then filtering (which all large breweries do anyway)? How should an inevitable zinc deficiency improve beer quality? Or using compressed air instead of CO2 to push beer and counterpressure fill because you are a small brewery and cannot afford to spend over a million Euros on a CO2 recovery plant but are forbidden from using technical CO2? You of all people here should have a fit at the mere thought...
But brewing a beer with unmalted wheat or using coriander is baaaaad, very baaaaaad...

I am not sure you have everything straight. There are many ways to brew within the confines. Sinamar over caramel?
Compressed air?

 

[kevin58]

Are you sure you want to open up that can of worms? First you have to start with defining what you mean by Rheinheitsgebot. The one from 1516 or the current one? The former will not even let you pitch cultured yeast, the latter is different if you are in Bavaria or in Baden-Württemberg or the rest of Germany...

That is a misunderstanding. Duke Wilhelm IV was more concerned about the "ingredients" of beer (although the main focus of the whole acts was more about taxing and pricing than what into the beer... another misunderstanding). Wilhelm did not consider yeast to be an ingredient. Why? His logic was that you put yeast into beer and you get yeast out of beer. Wilhelm reasoned that an ingredient was something that stayed in the beer.

That explanation comes from Matthias Trum, sixth-generation family owner of the Schlenkerla Brewery in Bamberg.

 

[Vale71]

That explanation comes from Matthias Trum, sixth-generation family owner of the Schlenkerla Brewery in Bamberg.

That's what so much inbreeding gets you... Just kidding, I love Brauerei Heller (Schlenkerla is the beer, not the brewery). BUt still, what he told you is absolute bull manure and shows how intellectually dishonest German breweries can be triying to uphold the "we brew better beer because of the RHG" fable...
Wilhelm did not include yeast because he didn't have the foggiest what yeast was, the microscope hadn't even been invented yet. Back then yeast was thought to be just a by-product of fermentation and treated as waste and nobody in their right mind would list waste as an ingredient.

 

[Vale71]

Compressed air?

You counterpressure fill, right? Unless you do it only with "betriebseigene Kohlensäure" your beer is no longer RHG compliant, regardless of how it was brewed. I'm pretty sure you don't have the mil you need to build a system to recover CO2 so I assume you're using technical CO2 instead of air from a compressor.
Last time I checked caramel coloring (E150x) is not RHG compliant, but Sinamar is because it's only "beer". Just like "Sauermalz" is only malt and not malt with the otherwise forbidden lactic acid added to it...

 

[Die_Beerery]

You counterpressure fill, right? Unless you do it only with "betriebseigene Kohlensäure" your beer is no longer RHG compliant, regardless of how it was brewed. I'm pretty sure you don't have the mil you need to build a system to recover CO2 so I assume you're using technical CO2 instead of air from a compressor.
Last time I checked caramel coloring (E150x) is not RHG compliant, but Sinamar is because it's only "beer". Just like "Sauermalz" is only malt and not malt with the otherwise forbidden lactic acid added to it...

No I don’t. I spund directly from the fermenter. I spund w with enough extract that I don’t have to use any co2 to push and if I do I recover my co2 from ferment, and use that around the brewery. I also don’t use technical acid I have and maintain a sauergut reactor.

Why on earth would you add caramel color to beer? I use sinamar, for darker styles (Schwarzbier) but would use a caramalt for the rest.

I’m not your average Hans brewer. I literally have a professional fully automated German brewery in my basement. Have been schooled by Weihenstephan. And don’t F around.

 

[Soulshine2]

Actually it's German for "food" or "nutrient". Gyle is actually "Kräusen" which is fermenting wort. Speise is just wort with no yeast.

I was under the belief that gyle is sterilized wort , not yet fermented. added at bottling so the beer is pure without priming sugar

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gyle

http://brewwiki.com/index.php/Speise

 

[Northern_Brewer]

what he told you is absolute bull manure and shows how intellectually dishonest German breweries can be triying to uphold the "we brew better beer because of the RHG" fable...
Wilhelm did not include yeast because he didn't have the foggiest what yeast was, the microscope hadn't even been invented yet. Back then yeast was thought to be just a by-product of fermentation and treated as waste.

You're the one spreading bull manure, I'm afraid. You don't need a microscope to know that yeast is needed to make beer, and goddesgoode/yeste/berm was known to be important for beer making long before 1516, even if they didn't know how it worked. Some people even interpret Egyptian papyri as making explicit reference to yeast, and it was certainly known to be a vital ingredient of beer by the Middle Ages. Indeed, the Playboy guy may well count a German yeast wrangler as one of his ancestors, a "hefener" was an actual job back then, long before de Latour and Pasteur.

No, it was exempted because it's not counted as an ingredient, the RHG allows all sorts of things as "processing aids" as long as they don't end up in the final beer. So stuff like PVPP is RHG-compliant, as long as it's filtered out of the final beer.

Why on earth would you add caramel color to beer? I use sinamar, for darker styles (Schwarzbier) but would use a caramalt for the rest.

This is where different traditions have different opinions. A British brewer would think you are crazy to use flavourful speciality malts just to adjust colour, as you'll affect taste at the same time. It's why so many British style beers made in the US suck - even on HBT you'll see people using 10-20% crystal to try and hit a colour target that in the UK would be achieved with 3-5% crystal plus caramel. I can't imagine what a 20% crystal beer would taste like, other than....it wouldn't be to my taste.

Colouring with caramel has been the norm in the UK since our version of the RHG was repealed in 1880. CAMRA's war on adjuncts mean that some breweries now colour with black malt, but it's far from the majority of beer.

 

[Die_Beerery]

This is where different traditions have different opinions. A British brewer would think you are crazy to use flavourful speciality malts just to adjust colour, as you'll affect taste at the same time. It's why so many British style beers made in the US suck - even on HBT you'll see people using 10-20% crystal to try and hit a colour target that in the UK would be achieved with 3-5% crystal plus caramel. I can't imagine what a 20% crystal beer would taste like, other than....it wouldn't be to my taste.

Colouring with caramel has been the norm in the UK since our version of the RHG was repealed in 1880. CAMRA's war on adjuncts mean that some breweries now colour with black malt, but it's far from the majority of beer.

I understand that, but I am talking German Beer and the RHG. Caramel coloring, is not even a blip on the radar in Germany

 

[Vale71]

Not according to Merriam-Webster:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gyle

No, it was exempted because it's not counted as an ingredient, the RHG allows all sorts of things as "processing aids" as long as they don't end up in the final beer. So stuff like PVPP is RHG-compliant, as long as it's filtered out of the final beer.

Are we still talking about the 1516 edict? Because I'm pretty sure neither PVP nor sterile filtration were available back then...

As for today's version allowing all sorts of manipulations as long as the "processing aids" are removed via filtration, it just shows IMHO how worthless and hypocritical the whole RHG circus is. Just because labeling laws do not mandate the listing of processing aids breweries can claim that their beer was only made with hops, water and malt (and yeast) thus implying that their beer is "better" and the consumer is none the wiser. What would otherwise be considered fraud then becomes via subterfuge a legally sanctioned "seal of quality".

The role of yeast was disputed even well into the scientific age, with one faction strenuously defending the thesis that fermentation was a spontaneous chemical reaction with no biological processes involved at all. It took a lot of effort to prove them wrong, but if you think that illiterate brewers from the Middle-Ages knew better than be my guest.