Rehydrating us-05 - temperature and time

[sablesurfer]

I guess my only frustration is that I'm asking what should be a simple question and I just wanted a straightforward answer. At least they answered though, and I did send one last request to the rep to see if he would mind forwarding my question to R&D to see if they had a quick and simple answer.

Why the heart ache? If you don't like the product then just use a different dry yeast. Seriously. And you didn't ask a simple question. You asked a question that BOOKS have been written about. I just read one a while ago. There are entire companies built around how a yeast is harvested, cultured, preserved, and served to the customer. This is not a simple question. If it was so simple...then you'd be able to do the very experiment they suggested.

Hell, I am not sure why you haven't experimented already to find what works for you, in your situation, on your beers. There seriously isn't any "the answer" in brewing. Not at all. Ask any pro-brewers if they are doing the exact same thing from job to job or from homebrewer to pro...every anecdote I have read in any book says they are not. Everything is adapted to how beer works in your environment. EVERYTHING else, is just suggestions.

I rehydrated my US-05 on my last IPA, just to see what the hoopla was about, and I will say it has been my worst effort on IPA to date. The lingering fermentation flavors will just not go away, almost three weeks after kegging.

 

[stpug]

I rehydrated my US-05 on my last IPA, just to see what the hoopla was about, and I will say it has been my worst effort on IPA to date. The lingering fermentation flavors will just not go away, almost three weeks after kegging.

Ahhhhh, but WHAT temperature did you use? (just kidding - couldn't resist)

 

[BeerGrylls]

I actually wrote back asking "let's say I rehydrate 2 brand new packs of US-05; one at 80F and the other at 100F. Which packet would have higher viability?"
...
I guess my only frustration is that I'm asking what should be a simple question and I just wanted a straightforward answer.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be inflammatory. It looks to me like the answer was straightforward (although breathy) - that the stated directions on the package are the best ones, for this brand of yeast. I'm wondering what answer you're really looking for to be satisfied? I doubt very much they will provide you with their lab analysis data.

 

[boydster]

Why the heart ache? If you don't like the product then just use a different dry yeast. Seriously. And you didn't ask a simple question. You asked a question that BOOKS have been written about. I just read one a while ago. There are entire companies built around how a yeast is harvested, cultured, preserved, and served to the customer. This is not a simple question. If it was so simple...then you'd be able to do the very experiment they suggested.

Hell, I am not sure why you haven't experimented already to find what works for you, in your situation, on your beers. There seriously isn't any "the answer" in brewing. Not at all. Ask any pro-brewers if they are doing the exact same thing from job to job or from homebrewer to pro...every anecdote I have read in any book says they are not. Everything is adapted to how beer works in your environment. EVERYTHING else, is just suggestions.

I rehydrated my US-05 on my last IPA, just to see what the hoopla was about, and I will say it has been my worst effort on IPA to date. The lingering fermentation flavors will just not go away, almost three weeks after kegging.

I love US05. I have experimented on my own beers and if I had a scope and hemocytometer, I'd do the cell counts myself. But I don't, and far be it for me to think that the manufacturer would know if there was a difference in cell viability at 80F vs. 100F.... that doesn't seem like a tough answer and I asked that question point blank. Further, it's come up in discussion on HBT once or twice, so instead of perpetuating anecdotes and speculative answers, I figured I would go to the source. The more difficult answer would be explaining the biology behind why their yeast's ideal rehydration temp is 80F, but on my follow up email I dropped that question entirely.

So rehydrating 05 ruined your IPA, huh?

 

[boydster]

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be inflammatory. It looks to me like the answer was straightforward (although breathy) - that the stated directions on the package are the best ones, for this brand of yeast. I'm wondering what answer you're really looking for to be satisfied? I doubt very much they will provide you with their lab analysis data.

They gave an answer, and it was good that they took the time to respond, I am happy about that. It's where he says "The explanation is that we recommend this hydration temperature based on exhaustive tests at temperatures more comfortable with the brewing process" that made me wonder more specifically about what harm or benefit would come from hydrating at higher temps and I feel like he went out of his way not to answer that. If you get 80% viability at 80F (for instance, I'm not saying that is a fact), then that's pretty darn good and certainly higher than the 6x10^9 cells per gram guarantee he mentioned in the email. However, I still don't know from what they told me if I would potentially get a higher viability if I used a higher temperature even if that temperature is higher than what they consider "comfortable with the brewing process," and that was the question I really wanted an answer to. It's fine, either way I know 05 is a great product and from other people's results we can see we get a lot of very healthy cells by hydrating in 80F water and once i get set up with some yeast lab equipment I can test some things myself.

 

[sablesurfer]

Ahhhhh, but WHAT temperature did you use? (just kidding - couldn't resist)

I used countertop temperature.

Basically I boiled water at some point when boiling kettle. Water in measuring cup with aluminum foil top. It kinda sat there until I got around to putting wort in fermentor. I pitched it then in boiled water...prolly in the low 80s as I test by measuring cup is slightly warm. I shake areate my wort for ten minutes on a timer. Then pitched rehydrated into fermentor, so it probably sat in water close to 15-20 min total.

So super scientificy.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I love US05.
So rehydrating 05 ruined your IPA, huh?

LOL, all this discussion has gotten me curious. I've been using BRY-97 for all my American ales lately so will have to go back to US-05 for a batch or two to see how it does for me now. The last times I used it I got a very vigorous fermentation and a decent brew followed. I only switched to the Danstar yeast because it yielded a little drier beer.

What I have learned since then is that I get my best results when I rehydrate per the package instructions, cool the wort to a few degrees below fermentation temperature, then gradually temper the hydrated yeast down to within 10F of the wort temperature. Pitch the cooled yeast and let everything warm to fermentation temperature from there.

 

[sablesurfer]

So rehydrating 05 ruined your IPA, huh?

I have problems with 05 that no one else in the world seems to have. No idea why. Other yeasts come out clean in my house, 05 always leaves some weird garbage/vegital aroma taste. (However, I know I am not the only one, because I have found two micro/nanos where their beer makes me thing..."Oh, I brew this at home"...LOL)

So yeah, I attempted a rehydration step. This time appears worse.

Already planning next steps to find a solid IPA yeast for my place. 5gal brew, simple recipe, split between three 1gal fermentors. Will pitch 'half' a dry yeast packet from...05, bry-97, and if I can't get Mangrove Jack's West Coast then I will try Nottingham/Windsor for some British comparison. I figure half a package into ~1gal wort will be a big pitch.

Have to get this worked out. I love big fruity DIPA's, but just can't get anything I am happy with for a base IPA recipe yet.

 

[boydster]

Bummer. I wonder why it does that for you? I really like Notty for IPA's if you can control the temp to the lower end (I start at about 60, I've heard from others that start a little lower than that even with good results, like 58F). Haven't used BRY-97, mostly out of sheer laziness because it's available at my LHBS so I really have no excuse I never seem to like the attenuation of Windsor for hop-forward beers, it seems like it leaves more malt character and a higher FG than I want in those beers. That's just my .02 though, and the current exchange rate puts the value at about 1/10 of that

 

[sablesurfer]

Notty vs windsor - good feedback. I have liked them both in other beers. Don't want to be losing any more hop character.

 

[thefost]

I'm not sure if you've seen this, but there were some experiments with yeast viability conducted here:

http://seanterrill.com/2011/04/01/dry-yeast-viability/

Strangely, he found that rehydrating at 64F yielded higher viability than 91F. Since both tests yielded viability within 4%, this mainly proved to me that simply rehydrating in water rather than wort is much more important than the rehydration temperature. I would love more experimental evidence on this though.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Already planning next steps to find a solid IPA yeast for my place.

You might like the way -97 turns out. Be aware though that it doesn't have a big rolling fermentation like -05 or Notty. I ferment at 66F and get a slow, soft bubbling in the airlock after 36-48 hrs that continues for quite a while. It attenuates like it should and drops out cleanly. After 8 days +/- it has reached FG and is ready to cold crash for a couple days then package. I have left the beer on the yeast for as much as a couple weeks with no change in gravity and no noticeable change to the flavor of the beer.

And +1 on the suggestion for Nottingham if you can keep it cool enough.

 

[Beenym88]

I know this thread is super old but I’ve never rehydrated 05 and if my wort is above 1.05 I pitch two packs. I’ve always had bubbling within 12 hours. I know it’s supposed to be better to rehydrate but when using one that is specifically made so you don’t have to online to just skip it.