Putting the red into an amber ale

[Onthebrew]

I’ve tried this recipe a couple of times
https://brewdogrecipes.com/recipes/5am-saint
the first was an official all grain recipe pack using same ingredients as brewdog use and it came out a perfect deep red.

second attempt was following their recipe above with grains from crisp and it came out brown.

so for the third attempt I’ve tweaked it. There are mixed reports on this forum for carared but my idea is to put it with melodIan and cara aroma and hope together they will deliver.

how does this look

60% two row
15% cara red
12% munich
3% melodinian
8% medium crystal
2% Extra dark crytal/ cara aroma.

will that get a strong ruby red colour?

 

[mattman91]

Red X!

 

[Onthebrew]

I thought you need to use that at 100 per cent? Not sure as that would limit the complexity of the malt bill.. I’ve never tried it have you had much joy with it?

 

[Miraculix]

It is very rich and complex on it's own, also shweter than the usual base malt.

From my experience, when not using red X, the best way to get a red-ish colour is to use something dark and roasted in small amounts around 1.5% to 3%. This comes obviously also with the taste of roast, but everything else gave me more of a brown. You could try cold steeping debittered versions of it or midnight wheat, that would give you the smallest amount of roasted notes.

Otherwise red X. It's a nice malt that doesn't need anything else.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

FWIW, with my amber ales / Red IPAs, I use character malts to build the flavor, then finalize color using a de-bittered black malt. The beer needs to be clear to help get the color right.

 

[Onthebrew]

FWIW, with my amber ales / Red IPAs, I use character malts to build the flavor, then finalize color using a de-bittered black malt. The beer needs to be clear to help get the color right.

that’s pretty much what I was thinking, I’ve read that cara aroma gives a better red than Carafa though.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

cara aroma [ ... vs ...] Carafa

Currently, I brew with either American or British crystal/caramel malts, so I have insufficient experience with Weyermann malts to have an opinion on either.

 

[Yesfan]

What about carahell? Does it give a red hue? Seems I read that here that it does, but maybe I'm confusing it with cara aroma. I'm asking as I would like to do a red IPA in the future.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

a good red
Vienna 70%
Munich light 20%
CaraMunich 12%
flaked Barley for head retention

edit: 2oz of De-Bittered Black

 

[mashpaddled]

I’ve tried this recipe a couple of times
https://brewdogrecipes.com/recipes/5am-saint
the first was an official all grain recipe pack using same ingredients as brewdog use and it came out a perfect deep red.

second attempt was following their recipe above with grains from crisp and it came out brown.

My guess in the different results with allegedly the same recipe is what you used as dark crystal malt. I've seen dark crystal listed as widely as 66 to 180 which is a huge difference in color. I'd say something in the 80-90 range is probably accurate for the recipe. The more dark grains the more you get brown instead of amber. Crisp's dark crystal is around 180 while Thomas Fawcett's is around 90. You would have to know the maltster or Lovibond to get it right.

 

[Onthebrew]

My guess in the different results with allegedly the same recipe is what you used as dark crystal malt. I've seen dark crystal listed as widely as 66 to 180 which is a huge difference in color. I'd say something in the 80-90 range is probably accurate for the recipe. The more dark grains the more you get brown instead of amber. Crisp's dark crystal is around 180 while Thomas Fawcett's is around 90. You would have to know the maltster or Lovibond to get it right.

Could be,I didn’t note what dark I used last time, but it would have been from crisp I think. This time will be cara aroma Which I’ve read offers a deep redness. That’s 150 L.

 

[Miraculix]

For my standards, this beer has a MASSIVE dry hoping rate. Is that normal?

I happen to like the original pretty much....

 

[gaviga]

Melanoidin malt (Weyermann) adds sweetness and a nice red/amber hue to a brew. I highly recommend it.

 

[hottpeper13]

2-4 oz of midnite wheat in a 5 gal batch gives me the color i want for my copper lager(sorry i don't know how to put photos here). Black Prince also works.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Defining wort colors: red malts vs. black malts (link, Briess) may be an interesting read.

 

[Onthebrew]

For my standards, this beer has a MASSIVE dry hoping rate. Is that normal?

I happen to like the original pretty much....

yeah, all brew dog recipes tend max out on hops, even when not usual for the style per se!

 

[Onthebrew]

Melanoidin malt (Weyermann) adds sweetness and a nice red/amber hue to a brew. I highly recommend it.

3% enough or should i swap a bit more Munich out for it?

 

[Chuckbergman]

I've read (maybe even on this forum) that Viking Red Active Malt is a good substitute for RedX. I haven't used it yet - does anyone have experience with it?
https://www.vikingmalt.com/2018/12/new-malt-viking-red-active-malt/

 

[Miraculix]

yeah, all brew dog recipes tend max out on hops, even when not usual for the style per se!

Very interesting. I usually don't like too much dry hops and I usually don't like beer with too much crystal in it. This beer ticks both boxes and it was one of my go to beers when living in the UK when I needed to buy something widely available.

I like the long low mash, this definitely compensates a bit for the enhanced sweetness from the crystal. The additional hops probably also do their thing. I have to rethink my approach to American reds now a bit. Glad you brought this one up. Thanks!

 

[Onthebrew]

I’m a massive fan too but it’s hard to get hold of, even over here these days. Even though there are more craft beers than ever there seems much less choice. 100 different beers on the shelf but 90 of them NEIPA variations!

Another problen making this is that the malt base improves with age but the dry hops sort of pull in the other direction.

 

[lumbergh]

I've read (maybe even on this forum) that Viking Red Active Malt is a good substitute for RedX. I haven't used it yet - does anyone have experience with it?
https://www.vikingmalt.com/2018/12/new-malt-viking-red-active-malt/

I haven't but I'm interested. Maybe Brulosophy will do a comparison.

 

[Miraculix]

I’m a massive fan too but it’s hard to get hold of, even over here these days. Even though there are more craft beers than ever there seems much less choice. 100 different beers on the shelf but 90 of them NEIPA variations!

Another problen making this is that the malt base improves with age but the dry hops sort of pull in the other direction.

Yep, I also thought the same regarding the malt.

 

[mabrungard]

For a different interpretation of color and flavor in an Irish Red, taste Boulevard's Irish Red. By my tasting, they used a substantial amount of Special B malt to impart color and with that, they produce a notable raisin note in the beer. It's way off of any Irish Red I've tasted, but it wasn't bad.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

For a different interpretation of color and flavor in an Irish Red, taste Boulevard's Irish Red. By my tasting, they used a substantial amount of Special B malt to impart color and with that, they produce a notable raisin note in the beer. It's way off of any Irish Red I've tasted, but it wasn't bad.

funny the brewery is 300 miles from me and all that is stocked locally is wheat beers and the English pale ale, never had the red

 

[camonick]

For a different interpretation of color and flavor in an Irish Red, taste Boulevard's Irish Red. By my tasting, they used a substantial amount of Special B malt to impart color and with that, they produce a notable raisin note in the beer. It's way off of any Irish Red I've tasted, but it wasn't bad.

I have brewed MoreBeer’s Irish Red many times and have made it my house red ale. Here are the specialty grains they use in a 5 gallon recipe.
1 lb crystal 120°
8 oz Abbey
8 oz Caramunich 3
2 oz 500 °L roasted barley
2 oz Special B

It looks like this

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I have brewed MoreBeer’s Irish Red many times and have made it my house red ale. Here are the specialty grains they use in a 5 gallon recipe.
1 lb crystal 120°
8 oz Abbey
8 oz Caramunich 3
2 oz 500 °L roasted barley
2 oz Special B

It looks like this
View attachment 762134

your forgetting one ingredient

 

[camonick]

your forgetting one ingredient

?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

?

pilsner, pale ale, what type of base malt?

 

[camonick]

pilsner, pale ale, what type of base malt?

I just listed the specialty grains… their recipe sheet simply says “10 lbs 2-row”

 

[camonick]

I just listed the specialty grains… their recipe sheet simply says “10 lbs 2-row”

I think they are including Viking malt as the base with all their kits. I’ve also used Briess 2-row and Irish stout malt with similar results.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/viking-2row-xtra-pale-malt.html

 

[Onthebrew]

I have brewed MoreBeer’s Irish Red many times and have made it my house red ale. Here are the specialty grains they use in a 5 gallon recipe.
1 lb crystal 120°
8 oz Abbey
8 oz Caramunich 3
2 oz 500 °L roasted barley
2 oz Special B

It looks like this
View attachment 762134

That is pretty much bang on the colour I’m after!

 

[bwible]

I have brewed MoreBeer’s Irish Red many times and have made it my house red ale. Here are the specialty grains they use in a 5 gallon recipe.
1 lb crystal 120°
8 oz Abbey
8 oz Caramunich 3
2 oz 500 °L roasted barley
2 oz Special B

It looks like this
View attachment 762134

What is “Abbey” malt?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

GE - Abbey Malt
https://www.morebeer.com/products/malt-weyermann-abbey.html

 

[bwible]

GE - Abbey Malt
https://www.morebeer.com/products/malt-weyermann-abbey.html

Thats a new one by me. Maybe because I can’t stand Belgians and I don’t brew them.

 

[bwible]

I just listed the specialty grains… their recipe sheet simply says “10 lbs 2-row”

Did you ever put this in software and get an approximate SRM number? Just curious. 16, 17?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

with what he stated I get 17.93 srm that's pretty dark

 

[bwible]

with what he stated I get 17.93 srm that's pretty dark

Thanks!

 

[camonick]

Did you ever put this in software and get an approximate SRM number? Just curious. 16, 17?

I think my last batch was listed at 19.6 SRM. It doesn’t really fit the parameters of a true Irish Red according to the sliders in BeerSmith, but it’s a very good, malty amber. Lighting when photos are taken is the key. My new batch I’m drinking now looks like this when held to the light, otherwise it does look quite dark.

 

[bwible]

I think my last batch was listed at 19.6 SRM. It doesn’t really fit the parameters of a true Irish Red according to the sliders in BeerSmith, but it’s a very good, malty amber. Lighting when photos are taken is the key. My new batch I’m drinking now looks like this when held to the light, otherwise it does look quite dark.
View attachment 762184

Thats still a pretty color

 

[Elric]

Lighting really is the key! Here is my scotch ale, it's a dark chestnut brown.

BUT, hold it up to a light and it is a gorgeous shade of red.