pigtailing 12 gauge solid wire.... ARGGGGGGGGGGGH

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Like I said before, NEC and UL are standards based on making the installations cheaper and easier, not safer.

Do you really believe what you are saying? Do you not know what the underwriters laboratories are?

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/

I havent heard so much bad advice in a LONG time.... And i assume you think the iihs doesnt make cars safer either.....
 
I've heard these discussions before on electrical boards. Without the proper mechanical connection, ie. twisting the wires together with your linesmens pliers, tape is less secure than (properly applied) wire nuts. I've seen (as you have with wire nuts) amateurs who feel joining the wires together and sealing with tape was a good job. (No need to use my pliers to twist them together...) (The best one yet was no twisting together and plastic wall anchors as wire nuts...) Properly twisted on (and twisted together) wire nuts are superior to just tape. As has been said here before, when the connection starts to heat up (or age), there goes the adhesive. Now I'm not UL, so I can't say I've used every type of tape, but the tape I have seen is crap. I still use it to insulate devices (outlets and switches) prior to shoving it into the box (metal or plastic), but wouldn't use it alone to insulate a splice.
BTW, The NEC is put out by the NFPA, not U/L (who don't exist in NYS anymore), and they ALWAYS go for safety. If they don't it's their azzes on the line. (See GFIs, Arc Fault breakers, 4 wire 220VAC wiring, etc).
 
Wow, 42 posts on the subject?
I mean, how hard is it to:
- strip wires
- twist
- put cap on
Hell, my dog can do it. Wait....
"Heeere, scruffy.... heere, scruffy"
Okay, scruffy, splice these wires.
Woof, woof!
Done.

I won't repeat, but Bernie Brewer talks about the alternate.
Okay, close this manky thread!
 
Wow, 42 posts on the subject?
I mean, how hard is it to:
- strip wires
- twist
- put cap on
Hell, my dog can do it. Wait....
"Heeere, scruffy.... heere, scruffy"
Okay, scruffy, splice these wires.
Woof, woof!
Done.

I won't repeat, but Bernie Brewer talks about the alternate.
Okay, close this manky thread!

Sparky I don't think it's a good idea to spread electrical propaganda to the forum when clearly your avatar is a picture of you sticking a knife into the wall holes. I believe wall holes is the accepted term by the NEC. Look it up.... if you can't prove me wrong it must be right. Isn't that how it works.
 
Sparky I don't think it's a good idea to spread electrical propaganda to the forum when clearly your avatar is a picture of you sticking a knife into the wall holes.

What electrical propaganda?
Really, how hard is it to strip wires, pig-tail them, and slap a wire nut on?
Or, do you want me to show you the Westinghouse method?

If you want, I am happy to send one of my crews over to show you how.
 
Sparky I don't think it's a good idea to spread electrical propaganda to the forum when clearly your avatar is a picture of you sticking a knife into the wall holes. I believe wall holes is the accepted term by the NEC. Look it up.... if you can't prove me wrong it must be right. Isn't that how it works.

I don't have to look it up. The accepted term is receptacle. BTW, Sparky, that's an awesome avatar!!!!
 
Well if you truly believe that electrical tape is fine for insulating wire connections then by all means go ahead and wire your entire house with black tape and see what happens.......

Like I said before, I come from a country where ALL houses have their whole wiring completely insulated with electrical tape. That is, the houses of 42 million people. Yet our fire departments are known for their personal constantly polishing their equipment. Furthermore, most countries in the World, with the exception of the US, UK, Canada and maybe Japan, use electrical tape as their exclusive means of insulation in houses, so that makes...what? 5 billion people? 6 billion?.
Add to that that, at least in my country, we also have natural gas piping run in the houses, as electricity is expensive, and yet, in 35 years living in a city with 8 million people, I saw far less fires than I saw in 11 years living in Miami, even when it has half the population, and no natural gas.

ALL WIRE not just some need a mechanical connection via clamping or soldering, a loose wrap of "black tape" will just lead to a loose connection and failure, when black tape gets warm it becomes elastic and also the adhesive begins to melt allowing the tape to "remove itself" creating a bare connection that could cause a fire. When a connection becomes loose, smaller amounts of wire are making the connection then in turn overloading that small connection then overheating it and creating a fire in your black tape haven of a home. How could you even sleep at night if you had wires in your walls of your house connected via "black tape"? I know i couldnt, i would worry on my way home if there will be fire trucks parked in front of my house. Remember, loose connections in wires are the leading cause of electrical house fires......

You need to go back and read a little.
I never said or implied that wire should be spliced with electrical tape. I clearly stated that wires should be properly spliced together before applying the tape for the sole purpose of insulation. Not only that, but, if you try, you will realize it's almost impossible to tape 2 or more wires together, if you haven't twisted them together beforehand.
Besides that, tape doesn't become elastic when warm. Tape IS elastic by design, and is that elasticity that keeps it from "removing itself" when applied properly.

id really like to see 4/0 wire connected via electrical tape in an industrial facility. And for exposive enviroments, you wouldnt be using electrical tape either.... all connections would be in sealed boxes/conduits with explosion proof sealed outlets actually using a mechanical fasterner

Yeah, and I'd really like to see 4/0 wire spliced with wire nuts. But none of us will have his wish, because 4/0 wire is not spliced using either, but it's actually spliced using the kind of screw on connectors somebody (I think Bernie, but I'm not sure) linked before.
As per explosive environments, it depends on the environment. In some cases, electrical tape can be used. In others, self vulcanizing tape must be used on top of the electrical tape. And, finally, in the most explosive ones, insulation must be done exclusively with epoxy insulators (sorry, I don't know the right name in English. I'm talking the insulators in which you pour the epoxy inside a "tube" containing the splice.) In NO CASE wire nuts can be used in industrial environments (that is, outside the US and maybe the other countries I mentioned).

Do you really believe what you are saying? Do you not know what the underwriters laboratories are?

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/

I havent heard so much bad advice in a LONG time.... And i assume you think the iihs doesnt make cars safer either.....

Sorry, I started a policy of not replying to ad hominem attacks. As per "knowing what underwriters Laboratories are", I'd say, after a 32 year long career in electronics, I have a pretty good idea.

I've heard these discussions before on electrical boards. Without the proper mechanical connection, ie. twisting the wires together with your linesmens pliers, tape is less secure than (properly applied) wire nuts. I've seen (as you have with wire nuts) amateurs who feel joining the wires together and sealing with tape was a good job. (No need to use my pliers to twist them together...) (The best one yet was no twisting together and plastic wall anchors as wire nuts...) Properly twisted on (and twisted together) wire nuts are superior to just tape. As has been said here before, when the connection starts to heat up (or age), there goes the adhesive. Now I'm not UL, so I can't say I've used every type of tape, but the tape I have seen is crap. I still use it to insulate devices (outlets and switches) prior to shoving it into the box (metal or plastic), but wouldn't use it alone to insulate a splice.
BTW, The NEC is put out by the NFPA, not U/L (who don't exist in NYS anymore), and they ALWAYS go for safety. If they don't it's their azzes on the line. (See GFIs, Arc Fault breakers, 4 wire 220VAC wiring, etc).

You're comparing 2 different scenarios. Of course, properly installed wire nuts are superior to improperly used tape. Properly used tape is also superior to improperly used wire nuts. But on a PROPERLY spliced wire, tape is superior in every respect to wire nuts, short and long term. Add to that that it's a lot easier to see an improperly taped wire than it is to see an improperly used wire nut, and you can see why most of the World uses tape, even when it's more difficult and slower to use.
 
Inodoro,

I'm not sure I understdand the tape splicing method. Is there any kind of mechanical splice? Are the wires twisted and then taped? What type of tape is used?
 
Inodoro,

I'm not sure I understdand the tape splicing method. Is there any kind of mechanical splice? Are the wires twisted and then taped? What type of tape is used?

I will take a picture and post it. I don't have any solid wire, so it's gonna be stranded. Sorry about that.
 
Here.
Like I said, this is #18 stranded. It's easier to see with solid wire, but I don't have any.

Here's the whole process:

img_0203.jpg


And here's a close up of the first step...

img_0204.jpg


and second step.

img_0205.jpg


In the picture I only used 1 pass of tape. Normally I use 2 passes for 110-240V, and 4 passes for 380-480V.

Hope it helps. :)
 
Thanks for the pics. I understand now and have seen this a few times. It looks like a solid connection. When adding another wire or two or three, I assume you just twist them in? Seems that could get a little bulky especially with larger gauge wire. How does it all fit into a device box?

I hope not to seem doubting. I am just curious. I have been twisting wirenuts since I was 9. 30 years now! My dad first taught me how. I am very anal about connections as was he. My guys always complain when they have to remove wirenuts I have installed. I tell them that they are not supposed to come off.

It is very interesting to learn that things are done so much differently elsewhere.
 
You're welcome. Actually, I have to admit I did it for myself. I always fear my English is not good enough to explain things properly. And, like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words...:)
Those splices are very strong, to the point that I've tried to pull the wires apart a couple of times, and the strands break before the splice gets undone.
Yeah, those splices can get bulky, but, in reality, they're used a lot less than wire nuts here. To really understand how it works you'd have to know the whole system.
I've been looking for a pic online that'd show the back of a switch module, so it'd be easier for me to explain the main differences with the American way of wiring, but I couldn't find any. :(
In reality, most splices are done in the module's contacts (which are very different from the style of contact found here), so, when is all said and done, you can have up to 6 switches (depending on the style of switch you use), or up to 4 non grounded receptacles in a standard 2"x4" box (and the actual box is 2"x4", not 4"x4" like here), and hardly any extra splices. Pigtails are very seldom used.
You also have to understand that at 220V grid voltage, the current wires and modules have to deal with is roughly half of what they have to manage here, for a given load, so that lets you use lighter wire, and that solid wire have been banned in my country for more than 30 years, which also makes it easier to cram the wires in the box.

Believe me, I don't take issue with anybody asking questions. After 11 years being automatically treated like an idiot every time I even mention the electrical tape method, having someone actually giving me the chance to explain myself is refreshing...:rockin:
 
You're welcome. Actually, I have to admit I did it for myself. I always fear my English is not good enough to explain things properly. And, like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words...:)
Those splices are very strong, to the point that I've tried to pull the wires apart a couple of times, and the strands break before the splice gets undone.
Yeah, those splices can get bulky, but, in reality, they're used a lot less than wire nuts here. To really understand how it works you'd have to know the whole system.
I've been looking for a pic online that'd show the back of a switch module, so it'd be easier for me to explain the main differences with the American way of wiring, but I couldn't find any. :(
In reality, most splices are done in the module's contacts (which are very different from the style of contact found here), so, when is all said and done, you can have up to 6 switches (depending on the style of switch you use), or up to 4 non grounded receptacles in a standard 2"x4" box (and the actual box is 2"x4", not 4"x4" like here), and hardly any extra splices. Pigtails are very seldom used.
You also have to understand that at 220V grid voltage, the current wires and modules have to deal with is roughly half of what they have to manage here, for a given load, so that lets you use lighter wire, and that solid wire have been banned in my country for more than 30 years, which also makes it easier to cram the wires in the box.

Believe me, I don't take issue with anybody asking questions. After 11 years being automatically treated like an idiot every time I even mention the electrical tape method, having someone actually giving me the chance to explain myself is refreshing...:rockin:

Your English is better than half the people on here.... including mine. :cross:
 
Your explanation and photos are awesome. I've used that method for joining speaker wires and other low voltage things over the years. Never really knew you could do that for 120v applications. Good to know.
 
Your English is better than half the people on here.... including mine. :cross:

I wish. In reality, the spell check has a lot to do with the quality of my English. But either way, sometimes it gets difficult to find the right word to accurately describe something. Most of you would've probably described that splice way better than I could ever do, with half the words.
But hey, that's what cameras are for...right?:mug:
 
Thanks Samc.
You can basically use it for any voltage, as long as you use enough tape so the voltage can not perforate it. Of course, after a given voltage, it becomes impractical, but that doesn't mean, in a pinch, it can't be done.
I have used this method on 380V installs, without a problem. I have used it with wires as thick as 14 mm2 (about a #6 AWG- we use the section in mm2 in my country). Definitely not fun (kind of a PITA, actually), but it works, and it actually makes the tape look gorgeous.

Scut_monkey: I forgot in my last reply, Yeah, when you need to splice more than 2 wires, you just get 2 together and do the splice with them like they're one, so you do 2+1 for 3 wires, and 2+2 for 4...
 
Your explanation and photos are awesome. I've used that method for joining speaker wires and other low voltage things over the years. Never really knew you could do that for 120v applications. Good to know.

Sam, I don't care what Inodoro says. If I made a splice like that for 120v applications, I would get fired, as would any other electrician. It is a fire waiting to happen. Use a wire nut. Or Polaris lugs.
 
Sam, I don't care what Inodoro says. If I made a splice like that for 120v applications, I would get fired, as would any other electrician. It is a fire waiting to happen. Use a wire nut. Or Polaris lugs.


I said it was good to know, didn't say I would be using it. As I say I've used it for audio connections and after twisting the wires I solder and heat shrink tubing over the connection.
 
Sam, I don't care what Inodoro says. If I made a splice like that for 120v applications, I would get fired, as would any other electrician. It is a fire waiting to happen. Use a wire nut. Or Polaris lugs.

Looks like you too, have a reading problem.
I never said nor implied it was ok to be used by an electrician. Nobody here asked at any time if it was ok to start splicing wires that way at work. Of course you have to follow the code: that's what you're paid for. But that doesn't mean it's not a viable option, in the cases (or places-remember this forum is not only read in the US) in which you don't have to follow the code.

As per this method being a "fire waiting to happen", I don't think you're qualified to make that statement. Are you a physicist? Are you even an electronics, or electrical engineer? Being an electrician by no means makes you a fire hazard expert.
That said, and as I said before, there's plenty of proof, all around the World, that this method is way safer than the use of wire nuts. Maybe you can come up with an explanation as to why most other countries don't seem to have any fire problems derived from its use, yet here it's so dangerous. Maybe you Americans have a different kind of fire...:rolleyes:
 
Wire nuts are the industrial standard - not solder and electrical tape. At my power plant, soldering and electrical tape are not allowed because they do not meet the NEC; whereas, wire nuts are required because of the NEC. Also check out the junction boxes in your home and you'll find wire nuts there.

I know that we are not homebrewing in a power plant and that soldering and electrical tape work very well for our applications. I was just responding to the badmouthing of wire nuts.

Mine are soldered then wirenuts then tape I believe. I'm not sure who did the electrical in my house but they went above and beyond.
 
Looks like you too, have a reading problem.
I never said nor implied it was ok to be used by an electrician. Nobody here asked at any time if it was ok to start splicing wires that way at work. Of course you have to follow the code: that's what you're paid for. But that doesn't mean it's not a viable option, in the cases (or places-remember this forum is not only read in the US) in which you don't have to follow the code.

As per this method being a "fire waiting to happen", I don't think you're qualified to make that statement. Are you a physicist? Are you even an electronics, or electrical engineer? Being an electrician by no means makes you a fire hazard expert.
That said, and as I said before, there's plenty of proof, all around the World, that this method is way safer than the use of wire nuts. Maybe you can come up with an explanation as to why most other countries don't seem to have any fire problems derived from its use, yet here it's so dangerous. Maybe you Americans have a different kind of fire...:rolleyes:


Your post is peppered with all kinds of incorrect statements. First, since when is it OK for ANYONE to not follow the National Electric Code? That code is not limited to electricians; it is for ALL electrical applications. If a homeowner does his/her own work, it must still follow the code; if it doesn't, it is illegal. Period.

Second, while I may not be a physicist, or an engineer, my experience as an electrician does indeed give me the ability to spot an electrical fire hazard. and just twisting a couple wires together and putting some electrical tape on it IS a fire hazard. That tape is NOT rubber tape, and it is NOT fiber tape.Tthe adhesive WILL break down, especially in hotter ambient temps. I don't know what country you came from, but there is no way I would let you do ANY electrical work in my home or anywhere else. I am done here. There is no changing your mind, but the part that scares me is that you have other people on this forum believing your incredibly bad advice.
 
Your post is peppered with all kinds of incorrect statements. First, since when is it OK for ANYONE to not follow the National Electric Code?

Hmmm...gee...I don't know...Maybe since not everybody here lives in the US? Or maybe since some people are more interested in having a safe install than in pleasing their local inspectors?

That code is not limited to electricians; it is for ALL electrical applications. If a homeowner does his/her own work, it must still follow the code; if it doesn't, it is illegal. Period.

BS. ANY electrical work is, by law, limited to electricians in the US. Doing any electrical work is illegal, in the US, for any non licensed person. You can even BE an electrician, but if you're not licensed, you can't work.
So the code IS limited to electricians.

Second, while I may not be a physicist, or an engineer, my experience as an electrician does indeed give me the ability to spot an electrical fire hazard. and just twisting a couple wires together and putting some electrical tape on it IS a fire hazard.

Your' "experience as an electrician" is obviously limited to the US, so, how can you possibly have a clue as to how safe or unsafe a method not used here can be? My experience as an electrician, and as an electronics technician specialized on industrial electronics, comes from a country where, as I said, tape is used everywhere, and, later, as a helper (because I wouldn't dream of wasting my time getting licensed here), in the US. So even from the very limited view of "personal experience" you're still not qualified to argue with me about something you know nothing about.

That tape is NOT rubber tape, and it is NOT fiber tape.Tthe adhesive WILL break down, especially in hotter ambient temps. I don't know what country you came from,

That tape is made of EXACTLY the same material (polyvinyl chloride) wire nuts are made of, and, over time (decades) it will dry out and become rigid and brittle just as wire nuts (and wire insulation itself, for what matters) will. The big difference is that, while wire nuts only offer one coat of insulating material, any qualified electrician will lay at least 3 coats of tape, which means the internal coats will stay in good shape, just because their moisture has nowhere to go.
Last, I come from Buenos Aires, Argentina.

As for the rest of your rant, as I said before, I don't waste my time answering to ad hominem attacks. Your opinion of me and my advise (and the way you seem to think you're entitled to expose it, without knowing what or who you're talking about) only talks about yourself.
 
BS. ANY electrical work is, by law, limited to electricians in the US. Doing any electrical work is illegal, in the US, for any non licensed person. You can even BE an electrician, but if you're not licensed, you can't work.
So the code IS limited to electricians.

WTF are you talking about here? I'm breaking a law if I replace a switch in my house? Are you kidding me? Show me the law please.
 
WTF are you talking about here? I'm breaking a law if I replace a switch in my house? Are you kidding me? Show me the law please.

Well, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know where to find the actual law, but I can show you these:

http://www.uklocalplumber.co.uk/plumbing-contractor/what-penalties-for-doing-electricalplumbing-work-without-license-or-permit

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071225052300AAhvMbG

https://www.bconline.gov.bc.ca/news/BCSA_Heads_Up.html

For what I read, you're not required to have a license to replace a light switch. You do, however, need a license to wire a light switch.
Anyways, the law seems to vary by state, so you should check your local laws. In Florida, for example, doing electrical work without a license is a felony (as it's been widely publicized after Wilma hit), while in other states it seems to be a misdemeanor.
 
BS. ANY electrical work is, by law, limited to electricians in the US. Doing any electrical work is illegal, in the US, for any non licensed person. You can even BE an electrician, but if you're not licensed, you can't work.
So the code IS limited to electricians.

Just not true.
A) NEC adoption is by local laws. I grew up near a place that had no building codes.
B) Previously mentioned homeonwer rules. NEC would still apply to those.
C) Industrial enclosures for one. The NEC does not have scope here. Often UL508A does. The UL guidleines are probably much more reasonable guidlines for within control panels than NEC.
 
This is true. As a homeowner, you can pull a permit and wire your entire house yourself at least here in Michigan.

Could be. Seems to differ from state to state.
Either way, it's one of those stupid, unenforceable laws. Makes sense to forbid an unlicensed contractor to do dangerous work, to protect the customer, but to forbid a homeowner from working on his own home... I'd like to see a judge trying to enforce that one.
 
Just not true.
A) NEC adoption is by local laws. I grew up near a place that had no building codes.
B) Previously mentioned homeonwer rules. NEC would still apply to those.
C) Industrial enclosures for one. The NEC does not have scope here. Often UL508A does. The UL guidleines are probably much more reasonable guidlines for within control panels than NEC.

A) which means, if that place has no building codes, NEC doesn't apply. Therefore, it's NOT ILLEGAL to insulate wiring with electrical tape.

C) Are you implying that an unlicensed worker can legally work in an industrial enclosure? Now I'm the one who'd like to see that law.
 
That is exactly what I meant. A homeowner can indeed do his own work on his own home. but that work is STILL subject to the NEC. Whether you think it is enforceable or not, it is still subject to the NEC. And if the house burns down, even if it is 30 years later, the person that did the shoddy work that caused it is liable for the damages, including deaths. Even if that person was the homeowner.

As far as pleasing their local inspectors vs a safe install, well you have that mixed up. You are going under the assumption that your method is safe and the NEC and local inspectors are not. Well, you are wrong. I don't care what you did in whatever country you came from. The practices that you outlined in this thread are unsafe. Period. And you are convincing guys on here otherwise and it is really pi$$ing me off, because someone is gonna get killed one of these days by listening to bad advice, whether it is given by you or someone else. But I have had it. I am done with this thread (really this time.....) Because you are just making my blood pressure go up.
 
Well, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know where to find the actual law, but I can show you these:

http://www.uklocalplumber.co.uk/plumbing-contractor/what-penalties-for-doing-electricalplumbing-work-without-license-or-permit

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071225052300AAhvMbG

https://www.bconline.gov.bc.ca/news/BCSA_Heads_Up.html

For what I read, you're not required to have a license to replace a light switch. You do, however, need a license to wire a light switch.
Anyways, the law seems to vary by state, so you should check your local laws. In Florida, for example, doing electrical work without a license is a felony (as it's been widely publicized after Wilma hit), while in other states it seems to be a misdemeanor.

so the first "reference" is a question/answer site located in Britain (not the US) and has no references attached to it - it's opinion only - and that opinion is only referring to three states in New England. No credence.

Second is also question/answer from yahoo.com - there is again little to no actual information on there. ANYONE can give answers - there is no credence on that site.

The third IS a government site, but is British Columbia (Canada) - their laws do not apply to us in the US - but notice that it applies NOT to homeowners doing work on their own, but to "regulated work" - you need to realize that this applies to work regulated by the BC government, again, NOT homeowners doing their own work. Heck they even have a chart lower down that tells you if the work you're doing requires a permit (i.e. is regulated) or not. . .

Honestly, it looks like you just popped three websites on there to add to your credibility - none of them prove your point. . .
 
I am done with this thread (really this time.....) Because you are just making my blood pressure go up.

Isn't that what you said before?:confused:

Honestly, it looks like you just popped three websites on there to add to your credibility - none of them prove your point. . .

I did google it, and, as I clearly said, I was well aware that wasn't the law. As per the first 2 links being "opinions", yes, they are. I didn't see anything other than "opinions" trying to disprove "my point".

About "my point", it has never been about he legality of homeowners doing their own electrical work, nor about the legality of electrical tape being used for insulation. I couldn't care less about the legality of either one.
My point has been about the possibility, and the safety of using that method. and, as of now, I haven't seen a single shred of evidence disproving it.

I have been told by a master electrician, in 2001, when I was working for an electrical contractor, that unlicensed people could not do their own work in the US. Later on, in 2005, after Wilma hit Florida, the Florida government did a TV campaign, telling everybody that doing construction work without a license was a felony, and asking people to report those who did. I made the mistake of believing the electrician knew what he was talking about, and of believing that what was law in Florida was law in the US. That still doesn't make a difference when it comes to the viability or safety of the method I proposed. I said it before: look at the OP's question. This thread is not about the legality of any given method, nor about anybody losing their job if they use one method or another. It's about finding a safe way to insulate a wire. That I provided, and, as of now, I'm still waiting for somebody to prove me wrong.
 
Could be. Seems to differ from state to state.
Either way, it's one of those stupid, unenforceable laws. Makes sense to forbid an unlicensed contractor to do dangerous work, to protect the customer, but to forbid a homeowner from working on his own home... I'd like to see a judge trying to enforce that one.

Didnt you just state that the law in the entire u.s. is electrical work can only be performed by a liscenced electrician and no homeowner can do his own wiring??
 
Indo, i havent seen you produce and logical and truthfull information as of yet, please post an actual link to a page that will support your argument, dont just pull stuff out of the air....
 
Seriously. Knock it off.

Talk about what you know, and stop with the personal attacks and the arguing. Or go find a new playroom to fight in, on a different forum.
 
Didnt you just state that the law in the entire u.s. is electrical work can only be performed by a liscenced electrician and no homeowner can do his own wiring??

I did. And then, when, after reading a few pages about it, I realized my mistake, I explained myself here:

I have been told by a master electrician, in 2001, when I was working for an electrical contractor, that unlicensed people could not do their own work in the US. Later on, in 2005, after Wilma hit Florida, the Florida government did a TV campaign, telling everybody that doing construction work without a license was a felony, and asking people to report those who did. I made the mistake of believing the electrician knew what he was talking about, and of believing that what was law in Florida was law in the US.

I honestly thought that was enough explanation on my part. I was led to believe there was a federal law forbidding unlicensed people from working in electricity. I was mistaken.
 
Indo, i havent seen you produce and logical and truthfull information as of yet, please post an actual link to a page that will support your argument, dont just pull stuff out of the air....

What are you talking about? My argument that using electrical tape for insulation is perfectly safe has already been backed up, with a link to 3M, of all people.
My argument about homeowners not being able to do electrical work has been also cleared already. I was wrong. I stand corrected.

But most importantly: on what are you basing your accusation of me not being truthful?:mad:
 

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