OFFICIAL Kate the Great Russian Imperial Stout Clone

[Damoxemus]

Normally it's ok, but there's a problem with my burner or regulator. Whole thing just stopped during the second (gyle) batch and I had to finish it on the stove. Huge PITA.
Not sure what it is but I think the burner needs a good cleaning.

 

[roncruiser]

For those that have brewed this successfully, what temp did you ferment at for both primary and secondary?

Thanks!

 

[mblanks2]

For those that have brewed this successfully, what temp did you ferment at for both primary and secondary?

Thanks!

Fermentation was started @ 63*f day 1, 64*f day 2 and 3, 65*f day 4 and 5. Raise to 70*f through day 10.
After 21 days raise temperature to 72*F and swirl vigorously.
Maintain until 35 days total have passed and terminal gravity has been reached.
I also mashed in at 149*f.

 

[roncruiser]

Fermentation was started @ 63*f day 1, 64*f day 2 and 3, 65*f day 4 and 5. Raise to 70*f through day 10.
After 21 days raise temperature to 72*F and swirl vigorously.
Maintain until 35 days total have passed and terminal gravity has been reached.
I also mashed in at 149*f.

Thanks!

 

[roncruiser]

Multiple - OFFICIAL Kate the Great Russian Imperial Stout Clone

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: WLP001 or Wyeast 1056
Yeast Starter: Yes
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.104
Final Gravity: 1.028
Boiling Time (Minutes): 75
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 3 weeks @ 68F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 5-6 months
Tasting Notes: Have not brewed this yet, but the reputation speaks for itself.




Here's what Todd Mott, Head Brewer, from The Portsmouth Brewery sent me:

" I will give you #s for a full mash and a partial mash, since it is pretty much impossible to brew Kate with an all extract recipe.

When we brew a batch of Kate we use 77% Pale malt, 2% Crystal 45, 1% Caramel 120, 1% Chocolate malt,1% Black malt, 3% Carafa DH# 3 (Weyerman),3.5% Wheat malt 3.5% Flaked Barley, 2% Roasted malt,3.5% Special B, 2.5% Aromatic. We dough in at 166 to stabilize the mash at 149 degrees F. Saccrification rest for 45 min. or until conversion occurs. Vorlauff (recirculate) 'til clarified and run off. Collect about 1/3rd of your wort and sparge to collect 6.5 gals (for a 5 gal. yield) at 26 degrees Plato or 1.104 degrees Specific Gravity. Yea it's big.... but we like it like that!! (So you are going to need to use your mash tun efficiency to figure out how many pounds of malt you are going to need in total. But to tell you the truth when you get to this thick of a mash your efficiency is going to drop 3-4%).

Boil the wort for 5 mins. for the hot break and then add your bittering hops for 75 mins. We bitter at 38 IBUs with Magnum, 10 IBUs with Styrian Golding and 15 IBUs with Perle. This is the bittering addition. We add a flavor addition for 15 mins with Centennial for 2 IBUS. Our final addition of Palisade, Styrian Golding and Willamette account for about 3 more IBUs at whirlpool. Cool wort and pitch a good amount of White labs WLP 001 or Wyeast 1056 and ferment til it is done. Put into conditioning for about 5 or 6 months and you'll have an amazing imperial stout.

Now, if you brew a partial mash, use 9#s Pale malt extract and 2# amber malt extract. Add to your brewing liquor and bring to 150 degrees. Add your specialty grains that have been lightly crushed. Add the crushed grains into a muslin sack consisting of 1# 45 Crystal malt,1/2# 120 caramel malt,1/4# chocolate malt,1/4# black malt,1/2# carafa malt,1.25#s wheat malt,1.5#s flaked barley, 1/2# roasted barley,1/2# special B and 1/2# aromatic. Steep the specialties in the 150 degree liquor for 45 mins. Remove the sack from your kettle and let the gains drip dry over the kettle as you bring the brewing liquor to a boil. Then add your Malt Extract (off the flame of course so not to scorch it), 18-20#'s of it should give you enough fermentables. Once you hit a boil add the hops as above and cool and ferment as above.

Good luck. Hope this helps Cheers! Tod Mott"

If you are not familiar with this beer, it is Portsmouth's most popular and currently brewed only once a year to fill 10 barrels - half goes on tap, half fills 900 bottles. It is definitely amongst the "celebrity" beers out there, and near impossible to get. Enjoy the recipe and hopefully we'll have a few successful clones to talk about later this year.

Cheers!

I plan to do a partial mash but I'm having trouble translating a few things. Can someone help interpret:

1. Tod Mott mentions "9#s Pale malt extract and 2# amber malt extract". Does he mean liquid malt extract or dry malt extract?
2. Should I bring water to 150F first, then add "9#s Pale malt extract and 2# amber malt extract" and specialty grains? Then maintain 150F for 45 minutes.
3. The rest of the extract (LME or DME???) is added after 45 mins @150F, in other words added pre-boil?
4. He mentions adding malt extract "18-20#'s of it should give you enough fermentables". Is that 18-20#'s in addition to the "9#s Pale malt extract and 2#'s amber malt extract" that was added at the beginning? If DME, what brand and type of DME? If LME, what brand and type of LME? There are many varieties of malt extract. Pale malt extract or amber malt extract?

Thank you... I have more questions but this is a good place to start....

Ron

 

[mtnagel]

Fermentation was started @ 63*f day 1, 64*f day 2 and 3, 65*f day 4 and 5. Raise to 70*f through day 10.
After 21 days raise temperature to 72*F and swirl vigorously.
Maintain until 35 days total have passed and terminal gravity has been reached.
I also mashed in at 149*f.

Are you sure you want to swirl vigorously? I get swirling it, but I thought gently would be better than vigorously.

 

[roncruiser]

Are you sure you want to swirl vigorously? I get swirling it, but I thought gently would be better than vigorously.

What's the purpose of swirling at 21 days. I don't know the reason. That's why I'm asking.

Also, can anyone provide some followup to some of my questions a couple posts up.

Thank you...

 

[mtnagel]

I assume it's to make sure it finishes fermentation completely. But I've always heard it as a gentle swirling, just enough to rouse the yeast up into suspension so they can continue fermenting if need be.

Sorry, don't know the answers to your questions.

 

[Keithww]

Using Beersmith 11 pounds of DME gives 1.096 SG at 5 Gallons, 11 Pounds of LME gives 1.079 SG at 5 gallons, so I would assume that he is using LME to get that final SG of 1.104 with all the seeped grains, DME would put you way over that.

 

[mblanks2]

What's the purpose of swirling at 21 days. I don't know the reason. That's why I'm asking.

Also, can anyone provide some followup to some of my questions a couple posts up.

Thank you...

Can't say there is real reason other than being sure that I roused enough yeast back into suspension to finish the job. This beer doesn't finish in 7 to 10 days. It takes awhile and with the expense, time and effort put into it, I want to ensure that I can help it in every way possible.

 

[roncruiser]

Using Beersmith 11 pounds of DME gives 1.096 SG at 5 Gallons, 11 Pounds of LME gives 1.079 SG at 5 gallons, so I would assume that he is using LME to get that final SG of 1.104 with all the seeped grains, DME would put you way over that.

Thanks. LME makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is the addtional 18-20#'s of malt extract he mentions in the recipe.

I'm assuming 11#'s at the beginning of the boil, and adding LME at the end of the boil to hit the postboil OG of 1.104.

 

[Keithww]

What doesn't make sense is the addtional 18-20#'s of malt extract he mentions in the recipe.

I'm assuming 11#'s at the beginning of the boil, and adding LME at the end of the boil to hit the postboil OG of 1.104.

I would look at adding the LME after the partial Mash with a SG of over 1.100 you won't get much out of the grain at that gravity. I would do the partial mash with what ever your target volume is, check the gravity then add the LME to get you to 1.104. I would bet it will be less than 11 pounds of LME. Then add the water to account for your boil off. You could also add part of the LME early and add the rest latter, that will allow you to get a little better hop utilization. But I would add at least half early or it will mess with the hops. I do all grain and only add DME to help me hit my numbers on really big beer, so I've read extract methods, but never really used them.

 

[mblanks2]

Are you sure you want to swirl vigorously? I get swirling it, but I thought gently would be better than vigorously.

I swirled vigorously with the carboy. Didn't open the container. So it was a vigorous twisting motion to get the yeast back into suspension. Getting the yeast back into suspension is the desired outcome. Not necessarily the process.

 

[roncruiser]

I would look at adding the LME after the partial Mash with a SG of over 1.100 you won't get much out of the grain at that gravity. I would do the partial mash with what ever your target volume is, check the gravity then add the LME to get you to 1.104. I would bet it will be less than 11 pounds of LME. Then add the water to account for your boil off. You could also add part of the LME early and add the rest latter, that will allow you to get a little better hop utilization. But I would add at least half early or it will mess with the hops. I do all grain and only add DME to help me hit my numbers on really big beer, so I've read extract methods, but never really used them.

I get confused with steeping. Do you steep in a smaller volume of water? Then after the steeping process add it to the full boil volume prior to beginning the boil.

 

[Keithww]

I get confused with steeping. Do you steep in a smaller volume of water? Then after the steeping process add it to the full boil volume prior to beginning the boil.

Steep with as much water as you can, I was suggest to use your target volume to make calculating the final gravity easier. With mashing you don't want it to thick, it will not drain, or to thin, it will not convert. You always want to steep with 1 to 1.5 quarts a pound as a minimum.

 

[roncruiser]

Steep with as much water as you can, I was suggest to use your target volume to make calculating the final gravity easier. With mashing you don't want it to thick, it will not drain, or to thin, it will not convert. You always want to steep with 1 to 1.5 quarts a pound as a minimum.

The target volume is about 6 gallons. The steeping grain total weight is 6.75#'s. Which equates to ~10 quarts or ~2.5 gallons at 1.5 quarts per pound. Since these are all only specialty grains steeping, not much conversion will be going on during the steep. Steep is 45 minutes at 150F. Should I throw in a few pounds of 2-row during the steep to help with conversion? Does it matter for the steeping grains at this point?

Thanks... this is good stuff.

 

[roncruiser]

The target volume is about 6 gallons. The steeping grain total weight is 6.75#'s. Which equates to ~10 quarts or ~2.5 gallons at 1.5 quarts per pound. Since these are all only specialty grains steeping, not much conversion will be going on during the steep. Steep is 45 minutes at 150F. Should I throw in a few pounds of 2-row during the steep to help with conversion? Does it matter for the steeping grains at this point?

Thanks... this is good stuff.

Nevermind. I answered my own questions. I did more research. It doesn't matter with steeping the specialty grains. No conversion is expected. Steeping is just for the sugars. This is a sweeter beer.

 

[globe]

Whoops guess I over shot...my refractometer was telling that i was short, so added a pound of DME in the boil. Guess its not that accurate at a higher OG. I decided to use WLP090 since thats what I had around. Should be a great beer, cant wait to try it.

 

[Adirondack47]

Brewed this up this afternoon (BIAB) with 17lbs of pale, and all the other ingredients along with 3lbs of Amber DME and only ended up with 1.084 OG (BS predicted OG was 1.106).

Despite all that I am going to roll with it for a few weeks in primary and then secondary to another Carboy where I plan to add a couple of ounces of oak cubes that have been soaking in Makers Mark since 8/14. I will taste the batch once in secondary every week or so until the oak is where I want it to be. I have a few questions for those of you who have brewed this or other beers this big in similar fashion:

-Once I put in secondary (in about 3-4 weeks) and put the oak cubes in and the batch is to where I want it to be taste-wise, im going to pull the oak cubes out. From that point in time would I be ok leaving it in the carboy in my basement for a another 2-3 months until I'm ready to bottle it? The temp only fluctuates 5-10 degrees from the coldest point of the year to the warmest and I would be well past the fermentation stage.

-At that point in time (4-5 months from now) will I need to add more yeast before I bottle it or will that be dependent on my SG?

 

[Keithww]

Brewed this up this afternoon (BIAB) with 17lbs of pale, and all the other ingredients along with 3lbs of Amber DME and only ended up with 1.084 OG (BS predicted OG was 1.106).

How big of a batch did you do? 20# of DME should push 10 Gallons to the high 1.08x's

 

[Adirondack47]

How big of a batch did you do? 20# of DME should push 10 Gallons to the high 1.08x's

I did a 5 gallon batch in my 15G kettle and I only used 3# DME (with 15 minutes left in the boil. I mashed 17# pale malt grain along with all of the other adjuncts from the original recipe (Carafa, Chocolate, Special B, Roasted Barley etc) BIAB style.

My efficiency has been a constant issue since I began using BIAB but up to this point it was at least consistent (usually about 60% efficiency for the style I brew most which is pale ales and IPA's) . I played around with the recipe that I put into Beersmith and put in the OG that I actually got today (vs. the one that BS predicted) and according to it my efficiency was about 35%.

 

[Keithww]

I did a 5 gallon batch in my 15G kettle and I only used 3# DME (with 15 minutes left in the boil. I mashed 17# pale malt grain along with all of the other adjuncts from the original recipe (Carafa, Chocolate, Special B, Roasted Barley etc) BIAB style.

My bad, I read 17# of Pale as pale DME not grain. Do you have your own mill or are you using the store crush. Last couple of brews I've set my gap to just above flour and treated the grains with a little misting and added rice hulls, this has help me about 10%, I can hit low 70s on the big beers.

 

[rideincircles]

I want to brew this in the future so I will add to this discussion as a reminder to get to it sometime.

In regards to rousing yeast, I made the Czar's Revenge RIS recipe in Brewing Classic Styles using oxygen and let it sit 3 months before bottling and I didn't bother rousing the yeast. I assumed it was done from sitting that long, and I used almost 5 oz of corn sugar for 5 gallons at bottling, but it ended up being overcarbed at 2 weeks in and I have had 2 bottle bombs out of it since then. Now I have to bleed off as much co2 as possible from the bottles.

The beer tastes amazing, but I have to keep it in my fridge and I doubt I will get the chance to enter any of it in competition. They are all gushers as soon as the lid comes off.

Still debating my best course of action or how many times I will need to release co2 from them to get them to a normal level. I still need to work on carbonation volumes as it is.

 

[Damoxemus]

Well, obviously my batch of Kate has a long way to go but I just tried a sample of the parti gyle (as someone on herealready coined, Boris the Bastard!) and it tastes awesome! I was expecting a ho-hum brown session ale type beer, but it almost tastes like a well made brown porter.

That 10 hours brew day is looking pretty good in retrospect.

Edit/Update
15 Days later and it the gravity has dropped to 1.022 (what was my target). Hydro sample is tasting pretty damn good too. This is going to be an awesome beer. Thanks again for the recipe.

 

[Keithww]

Will I never learn? I brewed a 6 gallon batch Sunday a planned, I hit my numbers at 68% based on boiling 9 gallons down to just over 6 gallons and adding 3 pounds of DME to get me to 1.10. The first hot break took about 5 to 7 minutes with 9 gallons of wort in a 10 gallon pot and me using the spray bottle, after 90 minutes I was a little under 7 gallons in the pot. I pulled a gallon to disolve the DME and added it back to the pot. Once it started to boil it threatened to boil over for a full ten minutes even with the extra headroom. Added my last hops, chilled with the immersion cooler for about 30 minutes, I was using the waste water for my pond so I wasn't in a hurry. I put the 6 gallons wort in my 7.9 gallon Speidel fermenter, I poured the beer off the top of my started and pitched the Londen Ale Yeast and called in done at about 2200, at 0800 this morning the top was canted to the side and I put it back in the well. At 1600 it was on the floor and I had the pillar of krausen. Ended up putting just under 6.5 gallons in the fermenter, with little to no trub. Looks like after trub, I'll be a little shy of six gallons to the secondaries.

Thread about my plans
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/of...l-stout-clone-217674/index60.html#post6735005

 

[Adirondack47]

Brewed this up this afternoon (BIAB) with 17lbs of pale, and all the other ingredients along with 3lbs of Amber DME and only ended up with 1.084 OG (BS predicted OG was 1.106).

Despite all that I am going to roll with it for a few weeks in primary and then secondary to another Carboy where I plan to add a couple of ounces of oak cubes that have been soaking in Makers Mark since 8/14. I will taste the batch once in secondary every week or so until the oak is where I want it to be. I have a few questions for those of you who have brewed this or other beers this big in similar fashion:

-Once I put in secondary (in about 3-4 weeks) and put the oak cubes in and the batch is to where I want it to be taste-wise, im going to pull the oak cubes out. From that point in time would I be ok leaving it in the carboy in my basement for a another 2-3 months until I'm ready to bottle it? The temp only fluctuates 5-10 degrees from the coldest point of the year to the warmest and I would be well past the fermentation stage.

-At that point in time (4-5 months from now) will I need to add more yeast before I bottle it or will that be dependent on my SG?

Bump. Hoping to hear how those of you who have already brewed this added your oak, for how long and how it turned out.

 

[mblanks2]

Bump. Hoping to hear how those of you who have already brewed this added your oak, for how long and how it turned out.

1 ounce French medium toast oak cubes soaked in bourbon and the same in port for 1 month prior to racking to secondary. Split the batch to 2 - 2.5 gallon batches in 3 gallon carboys. Added oak and 1 ounce of each port/bourbon and allowed to sit on oak for six weeks before bottling.

 

[NewBrewB]

Bump. Hoping to hear how those of you who have already brewed this added your oak, for how long and how it turned out.

I used 1.25 med toast oak spirals that I had soaked in tawny port in my hydrometer. Added to secondary and let it sit in there about two months. Oops. Way...too oaky Added some more port to a small sample using a 3 ml syringe to taste and did the math for the 5gal batch. Figured I wanted to add 34 ml of port for the desired change so added 15 and decided to wait another month before adding more, just to see how the oak flavor subsides.

Moral if the story is twofold...
1) Don't overdo it. Less is more and too much of a good thing can really mess up a beer.
2) we will drink just about anything alcoholic that we put effort into making.

 

[Keithww]

In my first batch I used about 3oz. medium toast American cubes soaked in port for 6 weeks and added that to the tertiary for about 6 months, bottled it after bulk aging and let sit for 6 months before I drank the first one. The oak was about right, now two years later the oak has mellowed out, and it is a great beer.

 

[hbrookie]

for those that were asking about how long to oak. I used medium-heavy French cubes. 1 oz to 3.5 gallons. for 1 week. They had soaked in port for 3 days. It was perfect.

 

[Scraggybeard]

Looking to brew this this weekend. For those who have done it already, is the mash temp really supposed to be 149? Never had the beer before but that's a bit lower than I expected. Does that give a drier beer or does the high OG counteract that?

 

[orangehero]

It's not going to be dry.

 

[mblanks2]

Looking to brew this this weekend. For those who have done it already, is the mash temp really supposed to be 149? Never had the beer before but that's a bit lower than I expected. Does that give a drier beer or does the high OG counteract that?

No, you won't dry this beer out. I mashed this at a temperature controlled 149*F and it finished after 4 weeks in primary at 1.026.

 

[J-Pizzel]

Uhhh, ooops

View attachment 1428026859208.jpg

View attachment 1428026873143.jpg

 

[Damoxemus]

Wait, is your OG 31 brix? Holy..... !

 

[MFerBrew]

I'm doing this one tomorrow with a few tweaks as suggested by the Mad Fermentationalist.

Question (and maybe it is buried in the 64 pages)...the 149 mash temp seems awfully low. Is the real version thin? Did anyone add maltodextrine to thicken?

 

[gingerdawg]

I'm doing this one tomorrow with a few tweaks as suggested by the Mad Fermentationalist.

Question (and maybe it is buried in the 64 pages)...the 149 mash temp seems awfully low. Is the real version thin? Did anyone add maltodextrine to thicken?

In a word, no.
With all of those roasted and crystal malts, it's anything but thin.

 

[mblanks2]

In a word, no.
With all of those roasted and crystal malts, it's anything but thin.

Agreed. Mine finished at 1.030 Mashed at 148*f.

 

[SavoryChef]

Mine finished at 1.030 and mashes at 149

 

[sikkingj]

My parti-gale off this beer is great!

I got 6+ gallons of 1.042 the fermented out to 1.004 - I added 1.6 lbs of honey to the second boil. It is a wonderful brown ale.

I did a 30 min boil, but I think I should have done less - at room temperature I get a burnt patent type malt flavor. Cold (40 degrees) I don't get any burnt after taste. Hop schedule was good, I used the left over KTG amounts, omitting the palisades and willamette subbing 0.75 oz of Fuggles. I used the same yeast.

To improve it, I think I would use 2 lbs of honey and maybe add a pound or so of 2 row.