OFFICIAL Kate the Great Russian Imperial Stout Clone

[SHvanBommel]

BORK BORK BORK.

I have had this beer many times from PBREW (Portsmouth Brewery) before it became a beer advocate b0rgy (beer orgy) and can safely say it is one of my absolute favorites. I had asked Todd several times in the past if he would be willing to share the recipe... not happening.

So imagine my surprise when I find this recipe here... Well, I sauntered off (yes, sauntered) to my LHBS and got all the ingredients (I think it came to 80.~) got home, drew 800ml from a yeast cake of an IPA I had just done (WLP001) and started planning my brew day. The one thing i didn't do was calc my water right. surprised? No, me neither. I should briefly mention that this was the second brew on my new rig so; all sorts of new things happening. So anyway, long story short, I end up with about 8.5 Gallons of 1.060 wort! Imagine that! This was after doing a 120 minute boil, hoping to boil off enough to hit the original 1.104 Gravity in the recipe. Yes, yes my efficiency was shot. i know. i got it. but! If i had boiled down to the 5.5 Gallons I was shooting for I would have hit it right on the nose! (silver lining moment). Well to hell with that. So, I ended up splitting the batch into a 5Gal bucket and a second 5 Gal bucket, split my pitch (At this point 1L of nothing but yeast.) and went back to the LHBS and got enough Dark LME (7 lbs i think) to spike the 5gallon portion to the 1.104 gravity. Win? yes. Double win = I fermented out the additional 3.5 gallons per usual, egged, carbed. and now while i've already added my port soaked oak and the KTG clone is aging, I'm enjoying this wonderful stout. By wonderful I mean it has all the character of the original minus the alcohol, the oak character, and the port notes. That's ok. The flavor and color are of strong coffee and chocolate. As the beer warms in the glass the lacing is wonderful, the chocolate warms the stomach, there is a slight chewiness which is very attractive to me and the hops are mild but present. Good 'nough? Really wonderful brew, I would probably brew this as a 10 gallon batch to keep this on tap regularly and do a 5 gallon batch once a year.

So good.


So. so. good.

 

[MFerBrew]

Mine finished at 1.030 and mashes at 149

We somehow got down to 1.019 after two weeks in the primary. It might have been because we added .75# of DME to hit the target 1.103 OG.

Oh well. I like a drier beer anyway. If it tastes too thin, we will add some maltodextrine when we bottle.

 

[adamg8504]

I just brewed this for the second time, two days ago. My mash efficiency was much better then the first time I made this and hit 1.111 with no dme additions.

I used my LHBS O2 setup because they didn't have a O2 regulator in stock for me to buy. This was the first beer I used O2 to oxygenate, instead of just shaking. I wasn't sure how long to leave the stone in the wort but I went about 2 minutes or so. Then pitched about a cup (or little more) of harvested WLP001 from a Blonde ale I had just kegged two days prior.

My only oops was when I was all said and done and put the carboy in my fermentation chamber, I forgot to plug the temp controller back into the fridge so it was just set on standard refrigerator mode for about 5 hours. Should do any harm. My wort was about 72F when it went in so if anything, it cooled it to the low 60's.

Fermentation is going pretty strong this morning, about 1.5 days after pitching.

Christmas can't come soon enough!! Okay, well, yea it could.

 

[Roadie]

I brewed Kate at the beginning of January, oaked it a couple months ago for about 4 weeks and last weekend put the keg in the keezer to see where it was. Had a few people over who tried a little before it was even really carb'd up and the reaction was W-O-W it's a freaking great beer! I plan on wax dipping bottles and handing out at Christmas. Will definitely brew this again in the winter for next year and maybe a little to age.

 

[roncruiser]

I brewed Kate at the beginning of January, oaked it a couple months ago for about 4 weeks and last weekend put the keg in the keezer to see where it was. Had a few people over who tried a little before it was even really carb'd up and the reaction was W-O-W it's a freaking great beer! I plan on wax dipping bottles and handing out at Christmas. Will definitely brew this again in the winter for next year and maybe a little to age.

Very cool! Which recipe on this thread did you go with?
Also, did you Co2 pressurize the keg during conditioning or simply purge with Co2 and left it at that..with no pressure before putting in the keezer?

I'd like to brew this soon. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row.

Thanks.

 

[Damoxemus]

Bottled this back in April/early May and just cracked a small one. Absolutely delicious. I did it straight up (no oaking etc) and it's easily one of the best homebrewed RIS I've had, and I feel it could still get better with a bit more time.

I will definitely be making this again, and will likely go for the port/bourbon/oak treatment.

Thanks again for sharing this recipe!

 

[Roadie]

Very cool! Which recipe on this thread did you go with?
Also, did you Co2 pressurize the keg during conditioning or simply purge with Co2 and left it at that..with no pressure before putting in the keezer?

I'd like to brew this soon. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row.

Thanks.

I used the recipe in the beginning of the thread. I purged the keg with CO2 but didn't condition at pressure though not sure it really matters.

I took Kate to a friend who works at a retail brew your own store. I really value this guy's opinion and his first comment to me was "have you entered this in any competitions because it's an awesome beer". He had several guys in the store who were brewing and 4 of them tried it as well and you could see their eyes light up after sampling, each one wanting to know more about the recipe.

 

[MFerBrew]

I'm doing this one tomorrow with a few tweaks as suggested by the Mad Fermentationalist.

Question (and maybe it is buried in the 64 pages)...the 149 mash temp seems awfully low. Is the real version thin? Did anyone add maltodextrine to thicken?

In a word, no.
With all of those roasted and crystal malts, it's anything but thin.

Agreed. Mine finished at 1.030 Mashed at 148*f.

Well, ours got down to a 1.017 so I'm a little concerned it will be thin. And that was just after the primary (I wouldn't expect it to get any lower sitting in the secondary). We ended up adding 3/4 of a pound of LME to hit our target OG. That may have been the culprit.

I'll taste it in five months and see how the mouthfeel is. If I want it thicker, I'll figure out a trick or two. I'm really excited about this one though.

 

[TxBigHops]

Brewed this up this afternoon (BIAB) with 17lbs of pale, and all the other ingredients along with 3lbs of Amber DME and only ended up with 1.084 OG (BS predicted OG was 1.106).

Despite all that I am going to roll with it for a few weeks in primary and then secondary to another Carboy where I plan to add a couple of ounces of oak cubes that have been soaking in Makers Mark since 8/14. I will taste the batch once in secondary every week or so until the oak is where I want it to be. I have a few questions for those of you who have brewed this or other beers this big in similar fashion:

-Once I put in secondary (in about 3-4 weeks) and put the oak cubes in and the batch is to where I want it to be taste-wise, im going to pull the oak cubes out. From that point in time would I be ok leaving it in the carboy in my basement for a another 2-3 months until I'm ready to bottle it? The temp only fluctuates 5-10 degrees from the coldest point of the year to the warmest and I would be well past the fermentation stage.

-At that point in time (4-5 months from now) will I need to add more yeast before I bottle it or will that be dependent on my SG?

1 ounce French medium toast oak cubes soaked in bourbon and the same in port for 1 month prior to racking to secondary. Split the batch to 2 - 2.5 gallon batches in 3 gallon carboys. Added oak and 1 ounce of each port/bourbon and allowed to sit on oak for six weeks before bottling.

I used 1.25 med toast oak spirals that I had soaked in tawny port in my hydrometer. Added to secondary and let it sit in there about two months. Oops. Way...too oaky Added some more port to a small sample using a 3 ml syringe to taste and did the math for the 5gal batch. Figured I wanted to add 34 ml of port for the desired change so added 15 and decided to wait another month before adding more, just to see how the oak flavor subsides.

Moral if the story is twofold...
1) Don't overdo it. Less is more and too much of a good thing can really mess up a beer.
2) we will drink just about anything alcoholic that we put effort into making.

I'm dragging these up cause I'm in the same place right now. From this and other posts I'm learning that I need to taste my beer as it's aging on oak to not over do it. Going to rack to secondary this week, and first taste will be in 2-3 weeks. One question, especially to NewBrew who over-oaked. Did you also add the alcohol that the oak was soaking in to the beer? I'm thinking that might get it over-oaked pretty quickly. I'm going to reserve most of mine, then if I don't get enough oak or bourbon flavor, I'll add it in later.

The other question asked that I have not seen a response to, is if anyone is finding the need to put more yeast in at bottling time after a lengthy secondary?

 

[TxBigHops]

I want to brew this in the future so I will add to this discussion as a reminder to get to it sometime.

In regards to rousing yeast, I made the Czar's Revenge RIS recipe in Brewing Classic Styles using oxygen and let it sit 3 months before bottling and I didn't bother rousing the yeast. I assumed it was done from sitting that long, and I used almost 5 oz of corn sugar for 5 gallons at bottling, but it ended up being overcarbed at 2 weeks in and I have had 2 bottle bombs out of it since then. Now I have to bleed off as much co2 as possible from the bottles.

The beer tastes amazing, but I have to keep it in my fridge and I doubt I will get the chance to enter any of it in competition. They are all gushers as soon as the lid comes off.

Still debating my best course of action or how many times I will need to release co2 from them to get them to a normal level. I still need to work on carbonation volumes as it is.

rideincirlces, if you're still monitoring this, I'm wondering, are you saying that you think you got bottle bombs because the beer wasn't finished fermenting when you bottled (seems unlikely after 3 months), or that you added too much dextrose? What was your OG and FG? Did you add more yeast at the time of bottling? I've been more worried about the opposite - not enough viable yeast left for carbonation after a long secondary. Is anybody else having either of these issues?

 

[mblanks2]

The other question asked that I have not seen a response to, is if anyone is finding the need to put more yeast in at bottling time after a lengthy secondary?

I used Lavlin EC-1118 at bottling.

 

[mtnagel]

I used Danstar CBC-1 yeast at bottling about 3 weeks ago. Haven't opened one yet.

 

[TxBigHops]

I used Lavlin EC-1118 at bottling.

I used Danstar CBC-1 yeast at bottling about 3 weeks ago. Haven't opened one yet.

Thanks guys! Can you point me to any guidance as to how much yeast to use, and the process? Do I stir it into the bottling bucket along with my dextrose? Or add a little to each bottle?

 

[Jwin]

Thanks guys! Can you point me to any guidance as to how much yeast to use, and the process? Do I stir it into the bottling bucket along with my dextrose? Or add a little to each bottle?

Sprinkle once siphon starts to avoid clumps.

 

[bd2xu]

I have same question. I've heard you can put a few grains of dry yeast in each bottle, or rehydrate a pack of yeast and add to bottling bucket, or just add dry yeast to bottling bucket, or use liquid yeast in bottling bucket. Which do you guys prefer?

 

[mblanks2]

Thanks guys! Can you point me to any guidance as to how much yeast to use, and the process? Do I stir it into the bottling bucket along with my dextrose? Or add a little to each bottle?

Re-hydrate 1 package of Lavlin EC-1118 Champagne dry yeast in 300 ml of sterile water to mix into priming solution before bottling.

 

[brewski09]

I'm dragging these up cause I'm in the same place right now. From this and other posts I'm learning that I need to taste my beer as it's aging on oak to not over do it. Going to rack to secondary this week, and first taste will be in 2-3 weeks. One question, especially to NewBrew who over-oaked. Did you also add the alcohol that the oak was soaking in to the beer? I'm thinking that might get it over-oaked pretty quickly. I'm going to reserve most of mine, then if I don't get enough oak or bourbon flavor, I'll add it in later.



The other question asked that I have not seen a response to, is if anyone is finding the need to put more yeast in at bottling time after a lengthy secondary?

I ended up adding the bourbon and I had used oak chips. I used the cask and barrel conditioning yeast (dry) for bottling because I had aged so long.

 

[rideincircles]

In regards to the above mention on my bottle bombs.

I did not add yeast, and my bottles were carbonated within a week or so after bottling. I am still kinda baffled what caused it, but there is a chance I could have added too much sugar, but i don't think I did. 5 oz was what I thought I added, but that alone shouldn't have caused bottle bombs. I may see if I can check my OG and FG later, don't have it right now.

In other news, I need to keg my KBS clone in the next few days for Burning Man. It's been dry hopping with coffee for 2 weeks now.

 

[Roadie]

I sent a couple bottles to a local competition and didn't know if I should enter as a 13F or a 22C. Ended up submitting as a 13F as I don't think the oak is overpowering at this point (6 months post brewing) - which probably means I'll get feedback saying it should be 22C!

 

[WavePuckRiker]

I have brewed this recipe twice. First was October 2014. Did 10 gals which I fermented in 2 carboys. I used Wyeast 1056 and the result was a nice, clean beer that was just a tad boozy on the nose. Both carboys went into a 8 gal bourbon barrel. I sampled once a week after week 2. At week 5 it was excellent and I put it into champagne bottles. I used half a package of Danstar CBC-1 and enough priming sugar to carb at the desired volume. This was my first barrel aged brew and I could not have been happier. I gave away a ton of bottles and the feedback was great.

I also had about 2 gals left over which I kegged and put a blanket of CO2 on. I was using this top off the barrel weekly to eliminate headspace. I would say I used about 3 cups in the 5 weeks it was in the barrel. What was left in the keg I carbed and pushed with Nitro through my stout faucet. That beer was also incredible!

I just brewed it again in early July. This time I put 12 gals in a stainless conical. As soon as I have about 2 hours to prep and transfer, it is going into the barrel.

Thanks much to the person who started this thread and provided the recipe. I live about 20 mins from Todd's new brewery. This winter he brewed "Mott the Lesser".....presumably Kate the Great with a different name. I never got to try it but heard from others that it did not disappoint. One of these days when I'm in the brewery and Todd isn't busy I'm going to pick his brain about this beer.

 

[Adirondack47]

I have a question for some of you more experienced brewers as I think I might have a problem on my hands with this brew.

I brewed this recipe on 3/8, (OG 1.084) and racked it to secondary on 3/28 (FG 1.020). I put it in a glass carboy in the basement where it has sat ever since. For the last 6 months, there was no activity and the carboy remained ink black and silent.

My plan from the beginning was to keep it in secondary for about 6 months and then put some oak beans that have been soaking in Makers Mark for the last year into the carboy for a week or two and then bottle.

While doing laundry this weekend, I noticed a few clouds of light foam had suddenly formed on the surface and that airlock activity had started again. We have had temperatures in the 90's for the last week or so and I'm wondering if the sustained/increased temperature is causing a re-fermentation or if I have possibly might have another issue on my hands.

A trusted fellow home brewer at our meeting tonight suggested that I might have an infection and that I should either bottle it right away, cold crash it or just let it ride if i'm feeling adventurous. I have quite a bit of coin and sweat into this batch and would like to turn out a nice, BBA aged stout that I can proudly put into 375ml Belgian bottles and give to friends as gifts for Christmas. I pulled an unoaked sample last night to taste and I was impressed with what I found; not a lot of body but it was mildly sweet, fudgey, had good hints of mocha and coffee and was generally as good of an imperial stout that ive had from some national breweries.

Has anyone ever had something similar to this happen and have any suggestion on what might be going on and how I could keep the batch from being ruined?

 

[ultravista]

Given the choice between Founders Kentucky Bourbon Stout or Kate the Great - which would you choose?

 

[Adirondack47]

Given the choice between Founders Kentucky Bourbon Stout or Kate the Great - which would you choose?

Considering the fact that ive never had the real KTG, my choice would probably be it.

With that being said, I do love KBS so I would pour one of those right after

 

[Jwin]

Has anyone ever had something similar to this happen and have any suggestion on what might be going on and how I could keep the batch from being ruined?

I doubt it's infection. Seems very late in the game, assuming that your airlock has stayed full and no one hay been fooling with your bung.
The abv this is at I doubt it.
Possibly offgassing from the increased temperature?

Take a look and/or post a picture on the infection photos thread maybe

 

[Roadie]

You should try and let it age in a cool place if possible. I aged mine at 55 and it was good. Going back up to 90 for an extended period may give you tastes you weren't looking for.

 

[gbarron]

Has anyone ever had something similar to this happen and have any suggestion on what might be going on and how I could keep the batch from being ruined?

Happens to me all the time with temperature fluctuations when I am bulk aging beers. Sounds like normal off-gassing to me. As long as it tastes okay and the gravity is not dropping, I would relax, don't worry, and have a homebrew.

The only thing you might take into consideration is if you are bottling the beer and naturally carbonating it. Most (all that I know of, in fact) carbonation calculators assume a certain amount of residual CO2 in the beer at bottling time. If you are bulk aging and there is considerable off-gassing, there will be less residual CO2 in the beer at bottling than your calculator may be assuming. So you may need to slightly bump up your desired CO2 volumes to account for that.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Check the gravity to ease your mind. I would be shocked if it were an infection. In that amount of time an infection would be obvious IMO.

 

[Adirondack47]

Thank you for all of the insight guys, it's very appreciated. I feel slightly better today than I did yesterday. I will check the Gravity again and post a pic of what I've got going on in the carboy.

 

[Adirondack47]

Took a gravity reading and the batch is still right at 1.020, I'm hoping that this is good news. I will more than likely get the oak beans in there this weekend.

 

[Jwin]

Those bubbles around the edge? Offgassing

 

[Mx750ktm]

Hello all I'm planning to brew this here fairly soon and had a few questions.
1. Since I BIAB I know it will be misserable to try to lift a bag with this much grain. Is there any reason I couldn't mash half the recipie and put that wort into an empty bucket then mash the second half of the recipie then combine both before the boil?
2. What would be a better option for yeast. A yeast starter or pitching on a yeast cake for this large brew?
3.Since I've never pitched on a yeast cake If the answer to number 2 is to pitch on yeast cake, what type of OG beer would I want to brew for a healthy yeast cake for this beer to ferment well?

Thanks for the help in advance
Jake

 

[Jwin]

Hello all I'm planning to brew this here fairly soon and had a few questions.
1. Since I BIAB I know it will be misserable to try to lift a bag with this much grain. Is there any reason I couldn't mash half the recipie and put that wort into an empty bucket then mash the second half of the recipie then combine both before the boil?
2. What would be a better option for yeast. A yeast starter or pitching on a yeast cake for this large brew?
3.Since I've never pitched on a yeast cake If the answer to number 2 is to pitch on yeast cake, what type of OG beer would I want to brew for a healthy yeast cake for this beer to ferment well?

Thanks for the help in advance
Jake

1) you could, or just suppliment with some extract.
Some would comment on hot side aeration but some believe that to be myth, as do I
2/3)either, a low - mid OG beer as high gravity can stress the yeast.
Note, don't need the whole yeast cake, but that's another argument. Many threads on that.

 

[mblanks2]

those bubbles around the edge? Offgassing

+1

 

[Dog House Brew]

Just go to a slurry calculator and use the cake. Also if your brewing a beer to specially grow yeast for Kate, I would brew a session. Something lower in Gravity, like 12-13 Plato. I used 007 for this beer. I stepped up the starter for it. After I did that, I bought 2 5L flasks. I added bourbon and spirals to to half. I brewed it on New Years Eve and the oak is still in the keg that is almost gone. Most people liked the Port Wine version better. They both are so good. If I were to split the batch, I would make sure I hit mash out temps. Just me and others argue it makes no difference. I've split batches in the past both ways and I thought the MO batches were better. Also you could always pitch dry yeast and get rocking on Kate! Good luck

 

[Mx750ktm]

Sounds good Thank you for the reply. I'm brewing a recipie tom morning which is simply 10lb of 2row and 1lb c10 with 001 and will be using the cake for this kate the great. I will also use the calculator as suggested. Hopefully I'll be brewing this bad boy here in 2 weeks or so.

 

[gotbags-10]

What's the typical wait time on this beer in a keg before it's good to share?

 

[Adirondack47]

Any hard or fast rules for knowing whether or not I need to add yeast to my batch before I bottle?

I racked off of primary in March and my batch has been sitting in a carboy in the basement ever since. I added my MM soaked oak cubes about a week ago and I tasted yesterday and I am satisfied with the taste that the oak has imparted.

 

[mblanks2]

Any hard or fast rules for knowing whether or not I need to add yeast to my batch before I bottle?

I racked off of primary in March and my batch has been sitting in a carboy in the basement ever since. I added my MM soaked oak cubes about a week ago and I tasted yesterday and I am satisfied with the taste that the oak has imparted.

I would suggest re-hydrating 1 package of Lavlin EC-1118 Champagne dry yeast in 300 ml of sterile water and add to your finished product before bottling.

 

[brewski09]

I would suggest re-hydrating 1 package of Lavlin EC-1118 Champagne dry yeast in 300 ml of sterile water and add to your finished product before bottling.

I had good luck with the CBC cask and conditioning dry yeast myself.

 

[Adirondack47]

I would suggest re-hydrating 1 package of Lavlin EC-1118 Champagne dry yeast in 300 ml of sterile water and add to your finished product before bottling.

What's the thinking behind this tactic? Is it that there probably isnt enough residual yeast left to consume the priming sugar and thus to properly carb the batch?