*NOOB* - Help me with equipment?

[MooNs]

So I've finally bit the bullet and am committing to homebrewing (this is something I've wanted to do for awhile now). And I'd ideally like to grow into a local seller (I have connections with ~90% of local bars so if I can perfect my craft it would be an easy sail on the business side of things).

Now that reality is a bit down the road. I already have purchase all supplies I need for my first recipe (which is a 5 gal recipe, but I may break it down to 5, 1 gallon batches to play around with a little more and get some practice).

I have a couple friends who homebrew, but nothing major so I need some help from some guys who are more experienced.

What equipment would you personally suggest?

 

[ncbrewer]

That's really wide open - lots and lots of options. The first question is whether you're brewing with extract or all-grain, or partial mash.

 

[mongoose33]

Without knowing your budget, difficult to say. I think you're a bit cart before the horse, thinking about marketing beer to local bars, when you're still shy of your first brew....

Anyway, if I were starting again, I'd buy this MoreBeer starter kit:

https://www.morebeer.com/products/deluxe-fermonster-homebrew-starter-kit.html

It comes w/ the fermonster fermenter, doesn't waste your money on a secondary, includes a spoon, hydrometer, AND a kit. I know you say you've accumulated your ingredients, but I'd advise you to brew a kit the first time. That way if it doesn't turn out you're not stuck trying to figure out if it's the ingredients, the process, or what.

I'd also add a larger boil kettle, 8-gallons at least. The 5-gallon pot is nice, but not enough for 5-gallon batches unless you're going to top off with water.

But if budget allows, I'd get this kit instead: https://www.morebeer.com/products/premium-fermonster-homebrew-starter-kit.html

For $100 more it includes an 8.5-gallon boil kettle AND an immersion chiller. This, IMO, is one of the best starter kits out there.

In every hobby I've done, it seems, I always underbuy in the beginning because I'm not sure I'll want to continue. I buy cheap stuff which will work, but which I either outgrow quickly or become unhappy with its limitations or design.

One more thing: I do not use glass carboys. They are a serious accident waiting to happen, IMO. Plastic fermenters like the fermonster are the way to go, also IMO. Lighter, won't break into shards of artery-slashing glass, easier to clean with the wide mouth....

Good luck, and welcome to the obsession....

 

[203PH]

Without knowing your budget, difficult to say. I think you're a bit cart before the horse, thinking about marketing beer to local bars, when you're still shy of your first brew....

Anyway, if I were starting again, I'd buy this MoreBeer starter kit:

https://www.morebeer.com/products/deluxe-fermonster-homebrew-starter-kit.html

It comes w/ the fermonster fermenter, doesn't waste your money on a secondary, includes a spoon, hydrometer, AND a kit. I know you say you've accumulated your ingredients, but I'd advise you to brew a kit the first time. That way if it doesn't turn out you're not stuck trying to figure out if it's the ingredients, the process, or what.

I'd also add a larger boil kettle, 8-gallons at least. The 5-gallon pot is nice, but not enough for 5-gallon batches unless you're going to top off with water.

But if budget allows, I'd get this kit instead: https://www.morebeer.com/products/premium-fermonster-homebrew-starter-kit.html

For $100 more it includes an 8.5-gallon boil kettle AND an immersion chiller. This, IMO, is one of the best starter kits out there.

In every hobby I've done, it seems, I always underbuy in the beginning because I'm not sure I'll want to continue. I buy cheap stuff which will work, but which I either outgrow quickly or become unhappy with its limitations or design.

One more thing: I do not use glass carboys. They are a serious accident waiting to happen, IMO. Plastic fermenters like the fermonster are the way to go, also IMO. Lighter, won't break into shards of artery-slashing glass, easier to clean with the wide mouth....

Good luck, and welcome to the obsession....

Would have to second the use a ingredient kit suggestion. Makes brew day #1 a little easier. Also, if you do a clone, you can compare your beer to the original.

Greatest hobby ever! But beware of the fact that it turns into an obsession. Good luck.

 

[seabrew8]

Buy or build your own brew system. I have a grainfather personally. If you actually want to sell beer you might want a bigger system then the grainfather.

 

[beernutz]

So I've finally bit the bullet and am committing to homebrewing (this is something I've wanted to do for awhile now). And I'd ideally like to grow into a local seller (I have connections with ~90% of local bars so if I can perfect my craft it would be an easy sail on the business side of things).

Now that reality is a bit down the road. I already have purchase all supplies I need for my first recipe (which is a 5 gal recipe, but I may break it down to 5, 1 gallon batches to play around with a little more and get some practice).

I have a couple friends who homebrew, but nothing major so I need some help from some guys who are more experienced.

What equipment would you personally suggest?

I assume your first recipe is for a malt extract beer. For that you only need an appropriately sized pot, a heat source like a propane burner or your kitchen stove, a method for cooling the wort quickly post boil such as an immersion chiller, a fermentation vessel with air lock, a bottling bucket, a siphon (I recommend an auto-siphon) and bottle filler, a bottle cap installer plus caps and clean bottles.

I'd also get some type of sanitizing solution such as starsan and a hydrometer is nice but not an absolute requirement. Nylon mesh bags come in very handy for adding hops or even steeped grain to your wort and a big spoon will be useful. I use a variety of things to clean equipment such as PBW or barkeeper's friend but oxyclean unscented does a good job too.

A poster already recommended a starter kit such as morebeer's and looking at their premiun one it has the above, except the heat source, and more for $230 which seems like a very good deal to me. I have bought from them since 1999 (when they were beerbeerandmorebeer.com) and have always been satisfied with their products and service though I've never bought one of their equipment starter kits.

That stuff should allow you to transition to BIAB all grain brewing down the road without having to buy much more equipment especially if you get a big enough pot.

 

[TheMadKing]

I don't know what country you live in, but if you're US based, you might find selling your beer to be legally problematic. You have zoning laws for commercial production, alcohol sales, health inspections, waste disposal permitting, and 100 other laws to navigate.

Selling beer commercially even on a 1 bbl system (30 gallon batches) is going to run you in the tens of thousands of dollars in equipment, space, and permitting.

Agree with the above comments that your cart is pulling your horse. Get 100 odd batches of good beer under your belt before even thinking about going pro.

Not trying to kill your dreams, I have the same dream of opening my own place some day, and I have a couple hundred good batches down. It's the whole "quitting my day job and making the massive financial commitment to a brewery" thing that's making it more of a retirement dream.

As for equipment, buy yourself a good 10 gallon stainless steel pot, a 5 gallon plastic bucket, some 1/4" ID tubing, a turkey fryer burner, and an extract kit to get you started. Then you can upgrade to BIAB down the road without buying a new pot or heat source.

 

[Willee]

OK If you are looking to sell to bars you will need grain based brews and volume.
7 gal batches of extract wont cut it.
So start by purchasing equipment that will do 20gal or more per batch.
Even that will be short.
It aint cheap so your best option might be to strike up some sort of a business deal with a local brew house.
They teach you the business and you provide outlet connections for the beers that are made.

If you are still wanting to do it the hard way then I recommend the book How To Brew.
Also the GrainFather system is ideal for you to start with.
All grain is what you need to learn.
The FastFermenter is a great piece of equipment to team up with the GrainFather.
Follow instructions and learn as you go ... it aint really that hard and great beer was brewed with much less science.

 

[frankdontsurf]

I just bought everything individually...

2x 5.5 gallon fermenting buckets w/ lids (food safe)
3x airlocks
Kettle
Hydrometer
Siphon
Bottle Wand
16oz Star San
Grain bags
Hop bags
Capper +Caps
Might be forgetting some things...

All of which was about $70 (rounded up) and doesn't include my first batch ingredients. I will say I already had an 18" stainless ladle and a few Pyrex measuring cups/bowls ranging from 1 cup to 1 gallon as well as two scales (grams/oz and oz/lbs) and a food saver.

If I could boil outside, I would go with the kits from morebeer suggested above though.. Everything I purchased I can grow with.. Larger kettle, immersion chiller, mash tun, larger fermenters, etc.. If you want all the things, use a kit. If you want to feel your way, buy in parts. Either way you're going to spend the same amount of money, just in different pay periods..

 

[brewshki]

Someone mentioned that Starsan or another sanitizer is not 100% necessary and I would put that before almost anything else. You could make a great batch of beer and be screwed by contamination. It's really not that hard to sanitize everything properly and you are giving yourself a better chance of your beer turning out well. It is also fairly cheap and lasts a long time.

Other than that, a budget would be nice to know. I actually started with Mr. Beer and then pieced my set-up together after that. Not the cheapest route, but you can find your way.

 

[beernutz]

Someone mentioned that Starsan or another sanitizer is not 100% necessary and I would put that before almost anything else. You could make a great batch of beer and be screwed by contamination. It's really not that hard to sanitize everything properly and you are giving yourself a better chance of your beer turning out well. It is also fairly cheap and lasts a long time.

Other than that, a budget would be nice to know. I actually started with Mr. Beer and then pieced my set-up together after that. Not the cheapest route, but you can find your way.

If you are referring to me I think you misread. I said a hydrometer is not absolutely necessary, not a sanitizer.

 

[seabrew8]

You don't need starsan to make good beer. Man has been making beer for 100's of years without starsan. You need grains/hops, water, yeast and patience.

Anything with the name "star" in it. You don't need it. I have NEVER used starsan.

 

[govner1]

You don't need starsan to make good beer. Man has been making beer for 100's of years without starsan. You need grains/hops, water, yeast and patience.

Anything with the name "star" in it. You don't need it. I have NEVER used starsan.

Using that logic you don't NEED yeast, temp control, chilling, etc. But most brewers have adapted to "modern" advances since Louis Pasteur's time and found that clean & sanitized equipment works better overall!

 

[Morrey]

Your aspirations are admirable and to have a commercial sales goal drives you in a certain direction. But, without a lot of research on your part, its like me saying I want to be a commercial airline pilot yet I have never been in a plane before......one step at a time!

For HBT members to create an "equipment list" for you is a total shot in the dark. None us has a clue what space/setup you have, or for that matter, anything at all to support or help you. I suggest you search out fellow home brewers in your area and ask to see their equipment. Your local home beer store may have a club or brewers group that has meetings and tastings. Many brew shops have classes and help you get started.

Using extract is a typical way many brewers start, but if you want to sell beer, I wouldn't go to a bar selling beers from extract kits. Think all grain for flavor and cost. Do your homework and find some fellow brewers in your area to hang out with.

 

[seabrew8]

Using that logic you don't NEED yeast, temp control, chilling, etc. But most brewers have adapted to "modern" advances since Louis Pasteur's time and found that clean & sanitized equipment works better overall!

I really don't get your logic there. But yeah starsan is a waste of money. I would rather give the money to someone in need.

 

[PADave]

What equipment would you personally suggest?

This is kind of like walking up to a stranger and asking "What car should I buy?" Depends on way to many factors to even begin to give an answer.

Start simple, brew something good and then start to improve your process one step at a time.

If you do start brewing and find that you make good beer, I think you will find that selling it will be way more of a hassle then brewing it.

 

[PADave]

I really don't get your logic there. But yeah starsan is a waste of money. I would rather give the money to someone in need.

Don't know if I'd go that far, but hey, if not using Starsan works for you, great.

 

[Willee]

So if you are not using or needing StarSan what are you using to sanitize your equipment?

 

[GHBWNY]

@OP, my 2 cents: get some Star-San. The cost and ease of using it far outweighs the cost of a ruined batch of beer. Using a sanitizer in brewing is kind of like using a seatbelt when driving. While you may never experience why it is needed, it's an available safeguard that reduces the chances of something bad happening.

 

[mongoose33]

I don't get the "you don't need Star-San" reference either.

In brewing, there are many things that can "go wrong" such that your beer doesn't turn out. If there are several oddities in how you're brewing, how easy or hard will it be to isolate the problem or problems?

Especially for new brewers, IMO they should keep things as "conventional" as they can for the first brew or two. That is, follow an established recipe (better: use a kit where someone else has assembled all the ingredients for you), make sure you follow all cleaning and santizing advice, use the procedures correctly.

That way, if the beer doesn't turn out--and the goal of following all the above is to almost ensure it does--it should be relatively easy to determine why. But hopefully it does, so that as you change variables, you can clearly identify what changed and what effect it had on your beer.

I've only violated this advice once, and I wish I could have had that brew day back again. I changed FIVE things in a brew, all were what one might consider best practices....and the beer turned out overly bitter. I think I can trace that to doing First Wort Hopping, but for a while I wasn't sure what happened.

That is, if you change one thing in an established process, and it turns out differently (maybe better!), you can easily attribute that to the one thing. But if you change 2 or more, to what do you attribute the change? Change A? Change B? Or worse yet, an interaction between A and B?

So when someone says "Star San is a waste of money" it almost has to be a troll, when they don't say what they do instead. Perhaps they never sanitize and sour beers are what they like. But when advice comes in out of the blue like that and it's so counter to established practice, without a "why" or "how" involved....do not follow it.

 

[mongoose33]

One more thing. I read something about 9 months ago that suggested most newbies, if they are going to have an infection, tend to get it around their 10th batch.

Why? Because at that point they may get a little cocky, or lax, in their cleaning procedures and by that time gunk can have built up in or on their equipment...and there you are. Infection. I don't know if it's true or not, but it made sense and seemed to serve as a cautionary tale.

As I've progressed I've tried to be a little more focused on cleanliness and sanitizing. So far, it seems to have worked. I've done 23 batches and so far, so good. <knocking on wood>

 

[Morrey]

One more thing. I read something about 9 months ago that suggested most newbies, if they are going to have an infection, tend to get it around their 10th batch.

Why? Because at that point they may get a little cocky, or lax, in their cleaning procedures and by that time gunk can have built up in or on their equipment...and there you are. Infection. I don't know if it's true or not, but it made sense and seemed to serve as a cautionary tale.

As I've progressed I've tried to be a little more focused on cleanliness and sanitizing. So far, it seems to have worked. I've done 23 batches and so far, so good. <knocking on wood>

I can't agree more. Small places we forget or simply get careless. 10 batches later lots of wort, sugars and yeasts have been exposed to your equipment. Bacteria has had plenty of opportunity to find its way to you. What about the check valve on your beer thief you forgot to push up and sanitize? Got careless...got an infection.

And why in the world would anyone not use Starsan or a similar sanitizer? Of all the arguments I have heard related to brewing, this one is the most off base yet. The argument was made that beer has been around for thousands of years w/o sanitizers. True. When I was in the Navy, we even made some hootch (no sanitizers of course) with apple juice and raisins depending on wild yeasts for fermentation. Humm......it turned out to be vinegar. In my opinion, to turn out a reliable and repeatable product, we strive to eliminate all possible variables leading to inconsistency with our products.

 

[GHBWNY]

...most newbies, if they are going to have an infection, tend to get it around their 10th batch.

I wonder if there's a possibility that a new brewer tends not to make up a new batch of sanitizer often enough. I'm sure I must have unknowingly stretched mine to the edge of ineffectiveness within the first several batches.

 

[beernutz]

You don't need starsan to make good beer. Man has been making beer for 100's of years without starsan. You need grains/hops, water, yeast and patience.

Anything with the name "star" in it. You don't need it. I have NEVER used starsan.

Do you sanitize your fermenter before adding wort to it? If so what do you use?

 

[brewshki]

Do you sanitize your fermenter before adding wort to it? If so what do you use?

My bad dude, I totally read that wrong. However, I don't think there is anyway to misunderstand this guy haha.

 

[mongoose33]

I wonder if there's a possibility that a new brewer tends not to make up a new batch of sanitizer often enough. I'm sure I must have unknowingly stretched mine to the edge of ineffectiveness within the first several batches.

I wonder what the limiting factor is. I just mix up a 5-gallon bucket of it and use it for multiple batches. During brew day I toss stuff into that bucket, like fermenter lid, airlock, tubing for racking, and so on. When I bottle, I toss my "poor man's beer gun" into it, and if I use the growler filler, same thing. After a while, there's going to be a fair amount of stuff in there.

A while back I decided to test the PH of the Star San after it had been used quite a bit--and I was still under a PH of 3.0.

Your theory might be right--I suppose there's a certain amount of cockiness or laxness that might develop, and slacking on sanitizing might be one of them.

I think I'm going to change out my Star San the next batch I do.

 

[violinguy]

I don't get the "you don't need Star-San" reference either.

So when someone says "Star San is a waste of money" it almost has to be a troll, when they don't say what they do instead. Perhaps they never sanitize and sour beers are what they like. But when advice comes in out of the blue like that and it's so counter to established practice, without a "why" or "how" involved....do not follow it.

I agree. I'm relatively new with only a dozen or so brews behind me, but it didn't take very long for me to be serious about sanitizing my stuff. There are a few things during the brewing process that we have complete control over, sanitation being one of them. Why add that to the list of potential problems outside of our control?

If not Star-San, what then? What should I be spending my money on instead?

 

[seabrew8]

Do you sanitize your fermenter before adding wort to it? If so what do you use?

Lately, i just use a light mr.clean solution in a spray bottle. I have used santizers - chorline based - of course and small amounts of bleach a lot in spray bottles. Really there's nothing wrong with starsan if it reduces your worry. But you know that. I kinda of went off there lol I like challenging the norms..

More context i order everything online and i'm cheap so i never botherd to use starsan. If i had a local shop i'm sure i would of used it many years ago. So maybe its just jealously on my part haha.

It always seem expensive to me has well though but i don't know how far a bottle goes.

Peace Homebrewers!

 

[seabrew8]

I agree. I'm relatively new with only a dozen or so brews behind me, but it didn't take very long for me to be serious about sanitizing my stuff. There are a few things during the brewing process that we have complete control over, sanitation being one of them. Why add that to the list of potential problems outside of our control?

If not Star-San, what then? What should I be spending my money on instead?

Bleach is the cheapest but it stinks and you have to rinse very well. Starsan is a fine product and probably the easiest to use in so that its no rinse. Sorry dude if i confused ya.

 

[beernutz]

Lately, i just use a light mr.clean solution in a spray bottle. I have used santizers - chorline based - of course and small amounts of bleach a lot in spray bottles. Really there's nothing wrong with starsan if it reduces your worry. But you know that. I kinda of went off there lol I like challenging the norms..

More context i order everything online and i'm cheap so i never botherd to use starsan. If i had a local shop i'm sure i would of used it many years ago. So maybe its just jealously on my part haha.

It always seem expensive to me has well though but i don't know how far a bottle goes.

Peace Homebrewers!

I thought calling starsan a waste of money was a bit over the top but no worries, different strokes for different folks. If you create a starsan mixture with distilled water it will stay effective for a long time. It doesn't cost very much as only an ounce of starsan, which is about a dollar's worth, is needed to make 5 gallons of sanitizing solution.

I am curious how you use mr. clean to sanitize. I assume you have to rinse after using it? I know from previously using it that bleach must be rinsed and should not stay in contact with stainless very long to avoid pitting. These are advantages of starsan as it is no rinse and has no usage restrictions that I know of.

 

[govner1]

I thought calling starsan a waste of money was a bit over the top but no worries, different strokes for different folks. If you create a starsan mixture with distilled water it will stay effective for a long time. It doesn't cost very much as only an ounce of starsan, which is about a dollar's worth, is needed to make 5 gallons of sanitizing solution.

I am curious how you use mr. clean to sanitize. I assume you have to rinse after using it? I know from previously using it that bleach must be rinsed and should not stay in contact with stainless very long to avoid pitting. These are advantages of starsan as it is no rinse and has no usage restrictions that I know of.

He's a troll!

 

[seabrew8]

I thought calling starsan a waste of money was a bit over the top but no worries, different strokes for different folks. If you create a starsan mixture with distilled water it will stay effective for a long time. It doesn't cost very much as only an ounce of starsan, which is about a dollar's worth, is needed to make 5 gallons of sanitizing solution.

I am curious how you use mr. clean to sanitize. I assume you have to rinse after using it? I know from previously using it that bleach must be rinsed and should not stay in contact with stainless very long to avoid pitting. These are advantages of starsan as it is no rinse and has no usage restrictions that I know of.

Yeah i just rinse it off - i have a short 2-3 foot hose connected to my tap. Its just a simple 30L bucket. Next time i sanitize my carboy i will just fill it with water with about a 1/2 - 1 cup of bleach and let it soak for at least a hour. Thats all i ever done. I actually use my bottle washer for my carboy sometimes to rinse it out good, awkward but works.

I just clean my stainless steel brewpot/mashtun with a basic household detergent or oxiclean/PBW. I don't think pre-boil is much to worry about for infections.

To clean all the crap out of my carboy i just push a rag down the carboy with some detergent or PBW and fill it up to maybe a gallon and swirl the rag around.

Like this - i Just use a standard dish rag.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMNsqTBW55s[/ame]

 

[seabrew8]

Just a FYI. Just a few days ago i used a glass carboy that was sitting in the fridge at around 0 deg Celsius for 5 days - i racked a batch from it 5 days prior to a keg. This carboy had a full yeast cake and all the gunk on top of the glass still on top. I didn't clean anything.

It went from 1.050 to 1.010 in 2 days and i lost a liter of beer in the blowoff demi john. It was wicked.

Double FYI: This was the first time i tried this!