newby American lager water?

[arcflash08]

I want to brew a yuengling lager clone for my dad. This is my 2nd AG beer after several extract batches. I know my local water is terrible and usually use RO for the extracts so I'm looking for a simple salt recipe for distilled water for this American Lager. I know this gets real complicated real fast and there are several calculators available but I can't test for ppm and need some simplicity first time out. What can you tell me?

 

[k_mcarthur]

You are right, it can get really complicated really fast. And because of the required information needed there aren't any good "one size fits all" answers, but I've heard of products like Burtons brewing salts. Why do you say your water is bad when you haven't had it tested?

 

[mjohnson]

I'd follow this: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

In short, add .5 to 1 tsp of CaCl for each 5 gallons of RO water. Add 2-3% acid malt to grist. Thats it!

mj

 

[arcflash08]

I did get a water report from the city and from what I understand it is high in alkalinity-good for dark beers.

I already have my order shipped on its way(homebrew shops are at least 2 hrs away) of 6 lbs of 6 row, .75lb crystal 75, and 2 lbs flaked maize. What is the acidulated malt for? Is there a substitute?

 

[SpeedYellow]

For a light lager you want low-mineral water. So just use RO water with some CaCl and 2-4% acidulated malt like was said above.

You CANNOT skip the mash acidification. Your choices are acid malt, lactic acid, or phosphoric acid. You can add the lactic / phosphoric to your strike water, but you'll have to do some research to figure out exactly how much. Acidulated malt is quite simple and widely available. In my high alkaline water (110 as caco3) I typically need 5% to get a pH of 5.3 even with 50% RO. Depends on the malt.

 

[mjohnson]

Acid malt is used to lower the pH of the mash. There are other acids you can use, like lactic of phosphoric, but if you aren't using a pH meter, I wouldn't bother with them. I've found recipe suggestions in the link I provided a good start. I'd read through that for your next brew and give it a go.

 

[SpeedYellow]

... if you aren't using a pH meter, I wouldn't bother with it. ...

I couldn't disagree more. 2%-5% acidulated malt is definitely not going to reduce the mash pH too far for a light lager like this. Perhaps you don't know exactly the mash pH, but would you rather have 5.4 or 5.7? I think I'd take the 5.4 or better yet 5.2.

It's like saying you shouldn't oxygenate your wort if you don't have an inline O2 meter and dissolved gas measurement system.

 

[mjohnson]

I couldn't disagree more. 2%-5% acidulated malt is definitely not going to reduce the mash pH too far for a light lager like this. Perhaps you don't know exactly the mash pH, but would you rather have 5.4 or 5.7? I think I'd take the 5.4 or better yet 5.2.

It's like saying you shouldn't oxygenate your wort if you don't have an inline O2 meter and dissolved gas measurement system.

I wasn't clear. I was trying to say that I wouldn't probably monkey with a more concentrated acid, like phosphoric acid, without a pH meter. Also, since he's already ordered the recipe and the nearest homebrew shop is 2 hours away, he might just go ahead and brew it as is and next time include the acid malt. Its not going to turn to poison if his pH is a little off.

 

[vNmd]

I have a batch of yuengling lager clone lagering right now. I used 1 tsp of CaCl with RO water and nothing else. The ph was 5.4ish (strip). It still has a month or so to go before bottling. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

 

[RonPopeil]

I have a batch of yuengling lager clone lagering right now. I used 1 tsp of CaCl with RO water and nothing else. The ph was 5.4ish (strip). It still has a month or so to go before bottling. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

that's what i would do. treat RO or distilled. easier than messing with known bad water.

 

[SpeedYellow]

I wasn't clear. I was trying to say that I wouldn't probably monkey with a more concentrated acid, like phosphoric acid, without a pH meter...

Ah. Yes, I agree with you there -- without a pH meter I probably wouldn't rely on liquid acids for mash acidification either.

 

[SpeedYellow]

I have a batch of yuengling lager clone lagering right now. I used 1 tsp of CaCl with RO water and nothing else. The ph was 5.4ish (strip). It still has a month or so to go before bottling. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Unfortunately, that 5.4 reading is actually a pH of 5.7-5.8 since strips read 0.3 - 0.4 low. Yes you'll make beer, but we all know a mash pH of 5.7-5.8 goes well against best practices. And as a side note, my Weyermann bohemian pils malt gives me that exact same mash pH (5.7-5.80) if I didn't acidify the mash. That's why I use 4% - 5% acid malt (since each 1% will lower pH roughly 0.1).

 

[arcflash08]

I have a batch of yuengling lager clone lagering right now. I used 1 tsp of CaCl with RO water and nothing else. The ph was 5.4ish (strip). It still has a month or so to go before bottling. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Was your recipe similar?

I used 5.2 on my breakthrough Citra SMASH. Will that handle the ph issue well enough?

 

[arcflash08]

After reading more posts I apologize for the 5.2 comment. Don't need to start a war. But I will still use it up since I have it. It did hold steady at 5.2 with papers(i know another no no). I will need to get familiar with a calculator for future batches. Thanks for the insight.

 

[SpeedYellow]

That's really disappointing that several folks spend the time to give you such great advice, only to see you ignore it and use a process (5.2) that near everyone agrees will fail in multiple ways. Oh well, you can lead a horse to water.

 

[vNmd]

Was your recipe similar?

I got the AHS AG kit. I am waiting to see how it turns out and will side by side with the real thing to see how it turned out.