My Crappy Stand V 0.5

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SOB

SOB

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OK...I feel like posting my stand...any critiques are welcome. My Dad is a life long carpenter and obviously he has NOT helped in this venture which makes ME feel good! I am in the future buying March pumps and valves and (in the future future) a Micrologix PLC to somewhat automate the process.

(Not pictured) HLT on far left, MT in the middle, BK on right. Cheap and easy using what I had already made\available...

I'm hoping to not have to put any metal flashing around the burner but I'm testing that tomorrow and will keep you posted. I LOVE constructive criticism...Thanks!

picture_0383.jpg
 
I think it looks great! Not carppy at all. I suspect the wood around the recessed burner may get a little warm! In any case, nice looking setup.
 
Metal flashing wont help much around the wood, as it will simply transfer heat to it. Many people use a fireboard type of material that will help to insualte the wood from the heat.

My guess is that with a kettle on there, trapping heat, you are going to have plenty of smoke from the wood

I say this becuase I have seen a turkey fryer on a paved driveway, melt itself in the asphalt because of the heat from the burner, even though the burner itself was like a foot or more off the surface!

There have been other wooden builds here with much more distance between the burner and the wood, and they still had to use the fireboard to protect it.

I would venture to say that maybe even the wood UNDER the burner will start to smolder. You have to think, that heat gets trapped under the kettle, surrounded by the wooden frame and wooden top on the stand. Your burner is very close to the wooden shelf that it sits on, for an hour... trapped heat. I am interested to see how well a high BTU burner relates to that much wood, so close.
 
Well, yah that is my concern. ScubaSteve had that awesome wooden rig and he had A LOT of space between the burners and wooden frame, and still had to place fire board on the thing to shield it. His burners were also mounted on steel brackets, not sitting on wooden shelves.

I see issues with a 60 minute boil and all of that trapped heat. 2/3 of the BTUs from these burners is jus thrown off and not sent into the kettle, that is A LOT of heat to dissipate, and that is one low profile burner. Id have a fire extinguisher handy, seriously.
 
The problem I see is with the height of the actual table top and its proximity to the flames of the burner. I use the exact same burner on my wooden deck, which is still not that great of an idea, but I can put my hand under the burner during a full blast boil and the wood is just barely warm. I have since gotten a fire mat just for safety, but I would seriously be a little worried about the area that is within a few inches of 200 btu's.
 
Generally the carpentry looks pretty good. I don't think having the big gas burner surrounded with wood in such close proximity is going to work very well. Keep a fire extinguisher close at hand when you fire that thing up.

The first thing I notice with most wood rigs is that they are over built. You'd think that
2 x4's, 4 x4's and 3/4" plywood were the only lumber sizes available. The other thing is that they are too tall, making it difficult to see into the kettles and even more difficult to remove spent grain etc. I would prefer it to be as low to the ground as possible and constructed from the lightest material possible without sacrificing structural integrity or load carrying capacity. You can do a lot with 1 X 4 & 1 x 3 boards. Plywood is OK, but I would cover the top with something like Wonderboard (cement backer board) or the aluminum diamond plate. My dad was an excellent capenter and craftsman too. Learned a lot from him. We often often clashed otherwise, but he would have gotten into a project like this.

So, along these lines, I would suggest reworking it some. Lower the height if you can and put the burner on top. Use some backer board for improved fireproofing. It should be fairly easy to make these modifications if you want to.
 
Looks pretty good to me, it the wood around the burner is a problem, you could simply remove that portion. Basicly, like a two tier, with the lower protion for the burner.

Show a pic w/ the kettle on the burner, that will determine how much heat is going to be trapped. A wide kettle that covers the hole on the framing will trap a tremendous amount of heat. A tall skinny kettle, ???
 
wilserbrewer said:
Looks pretty good to me, it the wood around the burner is a problem, you could simply remove that portion. Basicly, like a two tier, with the lower protion for the burner.

Show a pic w/ the kettle on the burner, that will determine how much heat is going to be trapped. A wide kettle that covers the hole on the framing will trap a tremendous amount of heat. A tall skinny kettle, ???
Click to expand...

The potential problem with the burner positioned as shown go beyond simply trapping heat. There's the radiant heat to consider and it will be substantial. The only practical way to deal with the huge amount of heat radiating from the burner in all directions would be to increase the distance between it and the wood. Heat radiating downward is what causes damage to unprotected decks. One of my friends almost burned down his house when his chiminea thing ignited his deck this way. He's not the brightest bulb in the drawer as this happened to him twice!:confused:
 
Dog House Brew said:
Wood and flames to me don't mix well. :D
Click to expand...

I would have to disagree, I think the problem is that they mix far too well! Once they get together they just decide to have a party.

I don't think it looks crappy at all, but I would take the Pol's advice. It'd be a shame to build it only to have it go up in flames. Literally.
 
Warning

If you do have a problem, and you need to use the fire extinguisher, shut the propane off before you use the fire extinguisher. If you put the fire out before you turn off the propane off, you will have propane spewing out of your burner with a very hot metal burner stand near by. The next sound you may hear may be woosh......I used to be a fireman and have a little experience with this. I remember during the flamible gas course, the training chief at the fire service academy profoundly saying, "whatever you do, don't put it out before you shut the valve".
 
Just to clarify, the crappiness is based on some of the sweet rigs I've seen in the "Show me your brew rig" thread...damn there are some nice ones in there!

Thanks for the advice guys. I knew the whole burner surrounded by wood thing could be a problem so today during my test I will be paying VERY close attention and have a fire extinguisher in hand. I will start with very low flame feel the wood around the burner. If I feel it is fine then put the pot on and monitor again. If for any reason I dont feel comfortable I will not hesitate to pull the burner out and place it on the concrete floor like I usually brew.

I have used this burner many times on my wood deck and not had any worries so I dont think it sitting on a wood base is going to cause any problems but I will also monitor this closely.

The height of the rig was designed so that when kettle and coolers were sitting on top it is not too high for me to easily peer in. I am 6' tall and with the kettle, etc. on it is only around 5' or so. I will post a pic with all the equipment on it sometime.
 
Also to add...if I am not able to boil ON the rig, no big deal. Building this was as much me wanting to have somewhere to house all my equipment as it was brewing on it. In the future I want to make everything electric and will cover the opening where the burner is now sitting...
 
If you are using a keggle to boil, you can cut some vent holes in the skirt and leave the rim in place. This will give a place for the heat to exhaust without passing close to the wood. It will also make the burner more efficient since the heat will flow instead of becoming trapped and insulating the higher heat from the burner.
 
Quick Update: I ran the burner for about 2 minutes on the rig (and without the BK on) and the one side of the wood started getting pretty warm. So I turned it off and now have it away from the stand on the concrete floor where it usually sits.

I know a lot of you guys wouldnt even think of using the burner on the wood structure but any cheap ideas on how I could do this? I was originally thinking of wrapping the burner in sheet metal to help deflect the heat up more...
 
Use concrete board (hardiboard) with spacers of some type to create a gap between the board and the wood.
 
Here the rig in action...Well, at least it's good at holding things!

picture34.jpg


The orange cooler is soon to be my new MT\HLT depending on size of beer being brewed. On the bottom you can see the free braided hose for the conversion. Thanks again ChillHayze!
 
SOB said:
Also to add...if I am not able to boil ON the rig, no big deal. Building this was as much me wanting to have somewhere to house all my equipment as it was brewing on it. In the future I want to make everything electric and will cover the opening where the burner is now sitting...
Click to expand...

I understand completely - having a place to house, store and use your equipment is a big deal to me, too. I think its a nice looking rig and will work well for what you want. It will keep all your equipment together, give you a surface to work on, and roll away conveniently.

I like it!

:mug:
 
passedpawn said:
I would LOVE to have your "crappy" stand. Damn.
Click to expand...

It's easier than you think...I believe I have less than $50 in material so far for the stand. Worked out good but I need to put a water resistant coating\paint on it before I use it again...

Damn this Great Lakes Christmas Ale is good!!
 
Don't recess the burner - just let it sit on top of the rig. Then, cover the the plywood (or at least the section right under the burner) with 1/2" cement board. That ought to give you enough space and the heat enough room to dissipate.
 
SOB said:
Quick Update: ...any cheap ideas on how I could do this? I was originally thinking of wrapping the burner in sheet metal to help deflect the heat up more...
Click to expand...


I would remove the portion of the stand that surrounds the burner, then perhaps concrete board, or ceramic tile on the two surfaces that remain adjacent to the burner.
 
Nice carpentry job, I am sure your dad is not embarrassed by your work.

However I don't get the wood & propane burner combo that people keep doing. Every burner sold has a warning about keeping the thing at least 36" or so away from combustible materials. Maybe they are being a bit cautious but still you need to be damn careful.

Happy brewing!
 
I would cut away the upper part on the right hand side for burner clearance. You will need to do more than just place a piece of tile on the bottom. It will start to absorb the heat and then stay hot long after the burner is turned off. If there is a problem with heat conducting through the legs to the base of the stand, some kind of material with an air gap between it and the wood will need to be used. Same goes with the wood located adjacent to it.

I would just put the burner on the ground. The stand does serve as a nice way to pack it all up though so I wouldn't take it to heart.

Big #$%@ swing ballah with the AB PLC eh? Must have easy access to some RSLogix, PLCs, and IO cards cause that stuff aint cheap ;)
 
CodeRage said:
Big #$%@ swing ballah with the AB PLC eh? Must have easy access to some RSLogix, PLCs, and IO cards cause that stuff aint cheap ;)
Click to expand...

Hah, yeah. That's what I do here at work so the software is easily available. The MicroLogix PLCs can be found fairly cheap (~$200) online and have built in IO.
 
SOB said:
Hah, yeah. That's what I do here at work so the software is easily available. The MicroLogix PLCs can be found fairly cheap (~$200) online and have built in IO.
Click to expand...

I don't think the IO on a Micrologix and going to be enough amps for a an electric rig. At least not for any heating elements. You maybe be able to control pumps, but I'm not even sure about that. I've got one sitting in my toolbox as well with the software on my work laptop, but will most likely still go the PLD route when I get that far in my all electric setup due to capabilities of the outputs of a micrologix.
 
IrregularPulse said:
I don't think the IO on a Micrologix and going to be enough amps for a an electric rig. At least not for any heating elements. You maybe be able to control pumps, but I'm not even sure about that. I've got one sitting in my toolbox as well with the software on my work laptop, but will most likely still go the PLD route when I get that far in my all electric setup due to capabilities of the outputs of a micrologix.
Click to expand...

Interposing relays are the key mate. Just like you would use an SSR with a PID. I've used micrologix to control 1000Hp motors ;)
 
Looks good, SOB! Please post additional pics when you've come up with a solution to protect the wood from the burner.
 
SOB said:
Damn! What were these motors doing? I've personally controlled 250HP motors and I thought THAT was pretty big!
Click to expand...

There were 2 1000HP and 3 500HP motors actually and they are attached to some bmf pumps. All the water that comes into this plant needs to be pumped out at the same rate it comes in, up to 300 million gallons a day.


Hah, found a pic of them with my helper standing next to one. Looks like one was out for service.

1000hp motor.jpg
 
SOB said:
Quick Update: I ran the burner for about 2 minutes on the rig (and without the BK on) and the one side of the wood started getting pretty warm. So I turned it off and now have it away from the stand on the concrete floor where it usually sits.

I know a lot of you guys wouldnt even think of using the burner on the wood structure but any cheap ideas on how I could do this? I was originally thinking of wrapping the burner in sheet metal to help deflect the heat up more...
Click to expand...

Drywall is cheap, easy to work with and also a good firestop. Just a thought
 
So I went a head and removed the surrounding 3 sides of the rig not only because of the fire hazard but also because they were pretty much unnecessary. I also got a scrap piece of cement board from my brother and attached that to the remaining side of the rig next to the burner. Did a good test today (while keeping a close eye on it with a fire ext.) and the cement board got hot but nothing else behind it was even warm! Worked great. I heated my mash water and then my sparge water with no problems.

Directly under neath though, it did get pretty warm. I'm probably going to figure something out there later. I'm not currently boiling on the rig so it's not a big deal right now. Below are some pics.

picture_0403.jpg


picture_0413.jpg
 
I would make that platform that your burner is on longer. It's really close to the edge. That would also help get it away from the other wood. Maybe a little of that concrete board under it will help with the heat too.
My burners are on wood and after over 2 years it has not burned.
 
SOB said:
Quick Update: I ran the burner for about 2 minutes on the rig (and without the BK on) and the one side of the wood started getting pretty warm. So I turned it off and now have it away from the stand on the concrete floor where it usually sits.

I know a lot of you guys wouldnt even think of using the burner on the wood structure but any cheap ideas on how I could do this? I was originally thinking of wrapping the burner in sheet metal to help deflect the heat up more...
Click to expand...

Anything in direct contact with the wood will eventually transfer the heat. The best way to prevent heat transfer is by using air as an insulator. I would cover the top in cement board. The brand Hardi-Plank is sold at most DIY stores. Then elevate the burner as much as you can craeting an air space between the rig and the burner.
 
In the stand I'm about to build, (a 3 tier gravity feed design), I'm gonna have a similar issue on the platform for the burner under my HLT. I'm planning on using some of the leftover ceramic tiles from my house build. Heck, I've got enough laying around to do a layer 3 or 4 thick. That should be enough to protect the wood underneath, don't you think?
 
mparmer said:
In the stand I'm about to build, (a 3 tier gravity feed design), I'm gonna have a similar issue on the platform for the burner under my HLT. I'm planning on using some of the leftover ceramic tiles from my house build. Heck, I've got enough laying around to do a layer 3 or 4 thick. That should be enough to protect the wood underneath, don't you think?
Click to expand...

I'm just about finished with my 3 tier gravity feed stand. The top tier is open in the middle, with 2x6's around the edges to support the burner. Once everything is done and I fire it up, I'll see if my idea works. I'll take pictures when I get to that point. (Unless I burn the house down...)
 

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