SavaShip, you need to find a place like my favorite pub: http://himmelhaustahoe.com/biers/ If you're ever on the Left Coast shoot me a PM and I'll buy you a litre!
My Beef With Craft Beers in America
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Best example I've seen in months of first world problems!!!!
IMO, brown ales need some substantial hop bitterness to balance the maltiness. If I want chocolate milk, I'll order chocolate milk.
Best example I've seen in months of first world problems!!!!
IMO, brown ales need some substantial hop bitterness to balance the maltiness. If I want chocolate milk, I'll order chocolate milk.
my problem is that i love chocolate milk but i'm lactose intolerant. so i love me a sweet brown.
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From your own link:
Additional link: http://udel.edu/~mcdonald/mythptc.html
conclusion said:
It's not as simple as "I can taste it, and you all can't, so suck it!!!!" (which is how your posts are portrayed)
two_hearted
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So after googling this other Bell's Brewery, I could hardly even find any information on them. There's no wikipedia page for them, their name is mentioned once and their status is "unknown". So, my question is, how the hell did you ever know who the defunct "Bell Brewery" is and how did you confuse them for one of the top 10 breweries in the US?
This guy is just a troll. I'm going to stop feeding him.
masteraviator
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Hmmm OP doesn't like hoppy beers. Someone else mentioned they don't like big beers/high abv. Yooper mentioned he doesn't like Belgians.
I think I might have a solution.... what they should do is group beers into taste categories/profiles so that discriminating craft beer consumers can find out which categories they like and which they don't.
Oh yeah... already do that don't they.
I think I might have a solution.... what they should do is group beers into taste categories/profiles so that discriminating craft beer consumers can find out which categories they like and which they don't.
Oh yeah... already do that don't they.
masteraviator
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duplicate
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Please please, let's not bring this down from good-hearted fun to harshness, Keith66 nailed it correctly, and I feel like bwarbiany got it too, I was being humorously obtuse on a lot of things, my humor rubs a lot of people wrong, if you don't get it, ignore me! I take everything lightly until people outwardly call me names. I don't like your beer, so what? I didn't call you an intolerable ass or anything like some people did to me. Let it be known that I had a lot of fun defending my position from an onslaught of opposition, even though the opposition is clearly winning at the taphouses and therefore didn't really need multiple representations, I'm just happy I bonded with a few guys who have similar tastes. Homercidal, we're all good! I actually had a printout of older BJCP styles 2004 I think, that was before American Brown Ales over 40 IBU were supposed to be entered into a special class... so 2004-2007 American Brown Ales could theoretically go to infinity IBUs, sorry for that mix up!
As for making things too simple, it really IS simple! What I basically stated is about 75%-80% of the people in the world are able to taste PTC which is found in hops. This sensitivity varies in intensity from person to person and is designed by nature to be unpleasant, because that's the receptor that warns you of something's toxicity... it's difficult (not impossible) to get over that, so I theorize that people who can taste PTC are less likely to enjoy different beers. I've heard people say "that beer tastes dark" and by dark they mean bitter, but some of the sweetest beers I've had were dark. Which leads me to conclude that most people don't get out there and keep trying them until they find styles they like, they just give up... so I feel that the likelyhood that most craft beer drinkers are not able to taste PTC, or are only mildly able to taste it is high. Ergo my conclusion is that a majority of the people who go on to become BJCP judges, are unable to taste PTC than the majority of society. It also makes me feel sad that there are major genetic reasons for things to taste different from person to person, and yet we have what would appear to be a genetically biased group of people judging beers. Thus the conclusion is, if we all just agreed with me, a LOT more people would enjoy beer, like 80% more people, which is good for everyone! Many people will still enjoy IPA's, and I'm not trying to take those away from anyone... I simply also want to have something at a local tap that doesn't alert my taste buds that are designed for detecting poisons, so something NEXT to the IPA's, or in place of one or two of the 22 of them would be greatly appreciated!
I have a question for those who are not sensitive to PTC (like the taste of most IPAs)... do Bocks, Irish Reds, and Southern English Brown Ales taste Cloyingly sweet to you guys?
As for making things too simple, it really IS simple! What I basically stated is about 75%-80% of the people in the world are able to taste PTC which is found in hops. This sensitivity varies in intensity from person to person and is designed by nature to be unpleasant, because that's the receptor that warns you of something's toxicity... it's difficult (not impossible) to get over that, so I theorize that people who can taste PTC are less likely to enjoy different beers. I've heard people say "that beer tastes dark" and by dark they mean bitter, but some of the sweetest beers I've had were dark. Which leads me to conclude that most people don't get out there and keep trying them until they find styles they like, they just give up... so I feel that the likelyhood that most craft beer drinkers are not able to taste PTC, or are only mildly able to taste it is high. Ergo my conclusion is that a majority of the people who go on to become BJCP judges, are unable to taste PTC than the majority of society. It also makes me feel sad that there are major genetic reasons for things to taste different from person to person, and yet we have what would appear to be a genetically biased group of people judging beers. Thus the conclusion is, if we all just agreed with me, a LOT more people would enjoy beer, like 80% more people, which is good for everyone! Many people will still enjoy IPA's, and I'm not trying to take those away from anyone... I simply also want to have something at a local tap that doesn't alert my taste buds that are designed for detecting poisons, so something NEXT to the IPA's, or in place of one or two of the 22 of them would be greatly appreciated!
I have a question for those who are not sensitive to PTC (like the taste of most IPAs)... do Bocks, Irish Reds, and Southern English Brown Ales taste Cloyingly sweet to you guys?
two_hearted
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Yeah... thanks but that's where I pointed out that they're listed as "status unknown."
You need to toss these around when you're being humorously obtuse.
:rockin: 
:cross:Otherwise it's hard for people to tell when you're being serious. That's the problem with the internet.
masteraviator
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It's all good brother. Amazingly, I think you have a right to your opinion to your preference in styles of beer. I happen to be a hop head who really likes DIPA and RIS. Those who don't leave more on the shelf for me.
But, I guarantee that the Craft brewers can shape the market only so far with their choice of what they brew; the reverse is imminently true. The market will and has pushed what is successful for them. They will continue to brew styles which succeed. Beers which fly off of the shelf will continue to be brewed.
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Nope. I love Irish reds and English milds. Don't drink many bocks, but when I do I enjoy them.
I love the malt forward and roasty dry finish in Irish reds.
English milds are a great style as well. Great balance of roast, chocolate/carmel, and a slight hop bitterness.
two_hearted
Well-Known Member
You see, we're reacting to someone who just joined the forums and makes their first posts in a thread slamming American craft beer and calling styles of beer "nasty crap" and people who like IPAs without taste.. You also called out two of the moderators here when they were pointing out how you were being harsh.
I don't think its us not getting your humor, I think you don't know how to translate humor to text without being harsh or just causing trouble.
So my humor sounds harsh, or like it's causing trouble to you? Sounds like you didn't get it.
Some people can't take it when you say bad things about something they like... it's as though they think they ARE that thing... Two_hearted... you are NOT an IPA, you're a person! Get over it! Rip on Bocks, or English Ales... I love those beers, but I am not one of those beers. If they tasted bad to you, I'd rather you avoid them... if there was something you liked better that you wanted to see in the pubs, I'd be right there with you, even if it was a style I didn't like, unless that style is already overrepresented.
I would say that the number of times I've found a beer to be too sweet is probably about the same as the number of times I've found a beer too bitter.
Bocks, Irish Reds, and English Brown Ales are not that sweet to me.
I like to mix it up. Sometimes I'm just dying for a mouthful of hops and good bracing amount of bitterness. Other times I want to taste all the malt. Sometimes I just want a well-carbed beer to wash down my food.
I will admit that my taste is very likely not overly sensitive, but I am sure I can taste bitter just fine. When I started drinking beer and a teenager I thought coors light was bitter. Bass Pale Ale was a pretty bitter beer at one point. Then I couldn't imagine why my friend (Who was a VERY picky eater) lived IPAs.
After a while, and a bit of exploring, I discovered that I really enjoyed the taste of hops and bitterness wasn't a problem at all either.
Actually, I usually keep an IPA on tap at home, but this last time, rather than brew one up, I brewed a Scottish /70 instead. It's just fun to try different things.
But I won't be brewing any sour beers. I dislike tart and sour about the same as you dislike bitter. Nasty.
This is awesome news! The difference, is that I rarely find a beer that is too sweet. There was a Chocolate Shock-Top that was way too sweet I had once. Tart I haven't had too many of... BerryWeiss by Leinenkugals? Have you had that?
I generally agree with you, but there are other long-time members here who also have a harsh sense of humor and like to kick up dust, but they've learned to respect the mods. Give the newbie a little time to find his place and he'll fit right in. His other posts aren't nearly as rough as his posts here.
I don't like anything sweet.
That being said I have had a lot of malt forward beers. As long as their is a nice bitterness to offset them I'm fine. It doesn't have to be in your face hoppy either. As long as I can taste some bitterness I'm good.
However, I have noticed that in the last few years my preception of bitterness has changed. An SNPA does not taste bitter to me anymore.
I do understand you revulsion to certain flavors, like bitterness. I have an issue with Belgian funk. I can handle a little as a backdrop in a beer. I've adapted to Dubbels and Quads and tend to prefer darker Belgians, but some of the Trippels seem to take it way too far.
For me it's not even about the taste. The taste doesn't really bother me. It's more of a physical sensation in the back of my throat. It's hard to explain, and I've never experienced the sensation with any other food/drink. I've been trying to force myself to like these beers, but so far it just hasn't happened. I can drink them, but I don't love them.
That being said I have had a lot of malt forward beers. As long as their is a nice bitterness to offset them I'm fine. It doesn't have to be in your face hoppy either. As long as I can taste some bitterness I'm good.
However, I have noticed that in the last few years my preception of bitterness has changed. An SNPA does not taste bitter to me anymore.
I do understand you revulsion to certain flavors, like bitterness. I have an issue with Belgian funk. I can handle a little as a backdrop in a beer. I've adapted to Dubbels and Quads and tend to prefer darker Belgians, but some of the Trippels seem to take it way too far.
For me it's not even about the taste. The taste doesn't really bother me. It's more of a physical sensation in the back of my throat. It's hard to explain, and I've never experienced the sensation with any other food/drink. I've been trying to force myself to like these beers, but so far it just hasn't happened. I can drink them, but I don't love them.
Ha! Berry Weiss tastes like Kool-Aid vomit to me. It's more the fruit flavors that I don't like. I'm hit or miss on fruit. Jamesport Brewing in Ludington, MI brews an awesome Apricot Wheat.
You might want to check out some beers from Dragonmead down by Detroit. They are known to brew authentic English beers, mostly. I think they have a lot more on tap than they sell packaged, but you might find them at a beer festival near you.
I understand that. I don't care for some Belgians, but I love others. I don't mind the barnyard funk you get with some. The ones that are described as Leather, horse sweat, etc. But some of them do have a hard-to-describe flavor profile that actually feels different when you taste them.
I have a Belgian Pale Ale that I brewed as a starter beer for a Belgian Golden Strong Ale. It's got plenty of that Belgian Flavor and I actually really like it, but it's not tart at all. Some of them can be acidic. Lambics are my Kryponite.
LOL! Awesome! Berry Weiss is one of my favorites, hah! See, this is fun, now you hate something that I really like!
I'll add Dragonmead to my list of breweries to check out!I put this rant in this Drunken Ramblings/Mindless Mumblings forum, because I didn't feel it was appropriate or serious enough for a normal part of the forum, where I try to be as helpful as possible... it really was just me randomly bitching about bitter beers. I respect the mods, Homercidal is awesome! I think I caught Yooper off guard though, but honestly, I though putting this in the "drunken ramblings/mindless mumblings" forum was explanation enough of what kind of post it was going to be. I'll take b-boy's advice and use more emoteicons when I'm being cantankerous
Believe it or not, I enjoy Lambics. I like acidic. The barnyard funk is what gets me.
I've noticed that the newest trend is to 'Belgianize' everything. I've been burned a few times. I try to read the labels, but sometimes you don't know until you drink it.
I definitely prefer malty beers with a nice hop balance. I will admit though that recently I have tried some IPAs that I thought were pretty good. They just seemed to be better balanced and the forward hop presence was more flavor and aroma and not so much bitter. The problem I have with very hoppy, bitter beers is that I can't taste anything after I've had one. I've been to the GABF a few times and once I try a hoppy beer, my taste buds are shot. It is weird because every beer I try after that just doesn't taste right.
I don't care for sour or fruit beers either but I am pretty open to just about anything else.
Oh, by the way, I love Brussels Sprouts!
I don't care for sour or fruit beers either but I am pretty open to just about anything else.
Oh, by the way, I love Brussels Sprouts!
Good point, but I still think you're a d!ck.
See how a well-placed emoticon can turn an insult into an inside joke! They are awesome! :rockin:
I love this ****!
joelrapp
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Metropolitan out of Chicago does only German style lagers. metrobrewing.com 5 Rabbits also in Chicago does Latin inspired brews. Randy Mosher is part owner at 5 Rabbits.www.5rabbitbrewery.com
Do either one of them export to CA?
joelrapp
Well-Known Member
Doubtful at this stage. Metropolitan is about 6,000 BBL a year if I recall. Not sure on 5 Rabbits. When I was up at Siebel they were just getting started really. I can't even find either 200 miles away in Indianapolis.
I can relate to the complaint about big beers. My 'local' (hoppin'frog) I don't believe makes anything under 7%! Would be nice to have a well-brewed English ordinary or best bitter on tap-I love that stuff!
I definitely prefer malty beers with a nice hop balance. I will admit though that recently I have tried some IPAs that I thought were pretty good. They just seemed to be better balanced and the forward hop presence was more flavor and aroma and not so much bitter. The problem I have with very hoppy, bitter beers is that I can't taste anything after I've had one. I've been to the GABF a few times and once I try a hoppy beer, my taste buds are shot. It is weird because every beer I try after that just doesn't taste right.
I don't care for sour or fruit beers either but I am pretty open to just about anything else.
Oh, by the way, I love Brussels Sprouts!
Another one on his way to becoming a hophead! :rockin:
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joelrapp
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CraptainWirtz
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No that was a mistake, I meant to type alkaloid, but I was busy researching Phenylthiocarbamide, which is the chemical abbreviated PTC on the strips used for testing whether you genetically have the taste buds to taste certain intense alkaloids or not... Thanks for the catch.
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