My Beef With Craft Beers in America

[SavaShip]

How come, when I hear of an American Craft beer, I'm not excited? When I drink a beer, I'm looking for something that is malty, with enough hops to balance it, and make a beverage that is enjoyable. But NOOOOOOOOO American craft breweries have to come out, and get in pissing contests with each other about who has the hoppier beer. They always make references to goats, which ironically originated with Bock beers, which are known for very little hop flavor (if done traditionally), and you end up with beers that are basically hops in a bottle of water. They specially grow their own nasty variants of cascade hops to insane Alpha acid percentages, then use more of them than ever before! If people love hops so much, how come the grocery store doesn't sell hop seasoning to put on your eggs in the morning? I think this about best explains my beef (not work safe):

http://www.collegehumor.com/post/6921709/the-complete-guide-to-the-craft-beer-at-your-local-bar

 

[day_trippr]

That was a hilarious read (the link, not the demi-rant).
Thanks for the link...

Cheers!

 

[OaklandHills]

So you're not a hops fan? Or maybe, you're not a fan of bitter simply for the sake of bitter. I agree.

Try Kona brewing company's offerings. I just got to try several of their beers at the brewery, which I recommend. Their beers' complexity is on the malt side. Their IPA is good but won't blow out your taste buds with sheer bitterness. Fire Rock Pale ale was good. Kona Nut Brown Ale was good. I liked the Black Sand Porter too.

And steer clear of anything from Pacific Coast Brewing Co. They make a double IPA "Meglodon"- forget about hops in water, they went for the hops in cough syrup taste. yuck.

Then you could also consider a couple of California offerings. Lagunitas Brewery's Hop Stoopid IPA has a lotta hops, but its not just bitter, it has layers of flavor and aroma. Likewise Pliny the Elder from the Russian River Brewing Company.

Cheers!

 

[SavaShip]

I love hops in beer, don't get me wrong! Ever had a full bodied beer without them? It's awful! I just hate it when they unbalance towards the insane. It's gotten to the point where I just avoid everything that says "IPA" or "Pale Ale" now because all my experiences have been bad. Maybe I just don't like Cascade hops? I like Guinness, and that's bitter, but the bitter doesn't tag along with you for the cab ride home. My favorite trick was always to give someone a Guinness, have them finish the whole can, then hand them a bottle of Michelob AmberBock... what's amazing, is the AmberBock will taste exactly like Coca Cola... it's really a nice demonstration on how the overbitter guinness pulls out the sweet malt flavor of the AmberBock.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Yummm... Brown

 

[Homercidal]

Nice article! I laughed. But yeah, really you can find plenty of malty beers (Although I do concur that there are more hoppy beers available.)

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Now I know what brown tastes like... LOL
Regards, GF.

 

[IrregularPulse]

That hop blood sounds good. Probably not hoppy enough for my elite taste buds though.

 

[DrunkinIrish]

It never fails, everything I brew I just end up with blood and hops everywhere. Then to top it off the beer just tastes like brown. More practice is clearly needed.

On a more serious note, there are alot of good American craft brews that are on the malty side, they just tend not to make it to your mega marts.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Home Brew mobile app.

 

[SavaShip]

It never fails, everything I brew I just end up with blood and hops everywhere. Then to top it off the beer just tastes like brown. More practice is clearly needed.

On a more serious note, there are alot of good American craft brews that are on the malty side, they just tend not to make it to your mega marts.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Home Brew mobile app.

I've touched my beloved daughter and turned her into hops! You've twisted my wish!!!!

More seriously, I also read a recent article that people fall into 3 categories, non-tasters, tasters, and supertasters. This is directly related to the taste of bitter. Tasters normally dislike Brussels Sprouts, sometimes Cabbage.. Supertasters normally hate broccoli along with those other vegetables. I seem to fall into the category of a taster. It was theorized that as much as 20% of the population could fall into the category of non-taster. So people who enjoy IPAs might just be people with fewer tastebuds that evolution accidentally spared by not poisoning their ancestors. So according to modern science if someone says, "I enjoy an IPA" You can reply with: "You have no taste." and be literally, not figuratively right!

 

[Jayhem]

My peeve with American Craft beers and so called "craft beer lovers" is BIG BEERS.

HIGH ABV! If it's not over 8% people would "rather just get light beer"

I have a few friends who enjoy craft beers who the first question they will ask me when I give them a sample of my newest homebrew is "What's the ABV?!" Who cares? It's good beer!

I'm not alone but I enjoy craft beer for the taste, smoothness and satisfying feeling, not to get drunk!

 

[SavaShip]

My peeve with American Craft beers and so called "craft beer lovers" is BIG BEERS.

HIGH ABV! If it's not over 8% people would "rather just get light beer"

I would LOVE to see some full-bodied delicious beers brewed like Olde English Ales weighing in at less than 2.4% alcohol, so I completely agree with you! I could enjoy the flavor, and not worry so much about my liver!

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

More seriously, I also read a recent article that people fall into 3 categories, non-tasters, tasters, and supertasters. This is directly related to the taste of bitter. Tasters normally dislike Brussels Sprouts, sometimes Cabbage.. Supertasters normally hate broccoli along with those other vegetables. I seem to fall into the category of a taster. It was theorized that as much as 20% of the population could fall into the category of non-taster. So people who enjoy IPAs might just be people with fewer tastebuds that evolution accidentally spared by not poisoning their ancestors. So according to modern science if someone says, "I enjoy an IPA" You can reply with: "You have no taste." and be literally, not figuratively right!

I did the 23andme genetic testing thing, and it came up with this. I'm one of the "non-tasters"... And lo and behold, I love Brussels sprouts, cabbage, broccoli, hoppy beers, black coffee, dark chocolate, orange peel, etc.

 

[DrunkinIrish]

I would LOVE to see some full-bodied delicious beers brewed like Olde English Ales weighing in at less than 2.4% alcohol, so I completely agree with you! I could enjoy the flavor, and not worry so much about my liver!

I feel like some of the flavors in some beers actually comes from the high abv. I do however agree that drinking beer to "get wasted" is a waste of time. You can get the same effect for less time and less money by drinking Walmart brand vodka. Added bonus, less of a need to pee!


Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Home Brew mobile app.

 

[noob1979]

I thought that hit the nail on the head for some crafters in my area. Others don't talk about the beer they drink as much. I like Guinness, and not a fan of cascade hops, to me its like drinking a cedar tree with a hint of citrus. I do like the taste of millennium hops though, just not in great quantities. Very funny article.
Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Zuljin]

This is like the extreme hot sauce craze. It's on the down turn now. I think honey is picking up as the next fad. Good.

 

[Beernik]

Granite Face Pumptoberfest Winter Spice Blackberry Sprummer Wheat Seasonal Ale

Basically my opinion about:
Hemisphere beers
Wet hopped beers
Organic beers
Seasonal beers that have nothing seasonal about them -> I'm looking at you Uinta Yard Sale Vienna lager. The only thing seasonal is the skier on the label.

 

[Keith66]

OK SavaShip, you cracked me dafuq up! I think you're my twin, beer-wise anyway. Thought I was reading one of my own anti-bitter rants. And the brussels sprouts thing?!... I've thoroughly hated them all my life! Now I know why... apparently I'm a taster! So while the USA, and California in particular, are over-hopping everything, I'm sitting here brewing German lagers and hefes, and Belgian ales. Now I know why!... Thank you for enlightening me, oh similar one! Prost!

 

[dudius]

I've heard something about a "lupulin shift", which is the idea that people who enjoy hoppy beers will often develop tastes for more bitter and more resinous beers. Similar to the way a person can enjoy spicy foods and continue to push their palate towards higher heat.

Truth is, I love aromatic hops in beers but I dislike crazy IBU levels. I've found that by aging hop bombs like Founder's Devil Dancer I've been more able to enjoy the flavor of the beer (bitterness mellows out and hop flavor comes out as more complex).

What I'd like to see more of is craft beer drinkers who won't turn their noses at micro brewers who make classic German or English beers. Belgian beers are the only ones that seem to get any respect from the common american craft beer drinker.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[Keith66]

No kidding! I only know of 3 brewers in the US that specialize in German beers. 1) Gordon Biersch 2) Sudwerk in Davis, CA 3) Prost Brewing in Denver. There may be others, but likely not many. Jack Russell Brewing in tiny Camino, CA specializes in English ales.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

Beef and craft beer sounds really good right now......

 

[SavaShip]

OK SavaShip, you cracked me dafuq up! I think you're my twin, beer-wise anyway. Thought I was reading one of my own anti-bitter rants. And the brussels sprouts thing?!... I've thoroughly hated them all my life! Now I know why... apparently I'm a taster! So while the USA, and California in particular, are over-hopping everything, I'm sitting here brewing German lagers and hefes, and Belgian ales. Now I know why!... Thank you for enlightening me, oh similar one! Prost!

First beers I truly loved were Bock style. I recently went to a bar and ordered a Bell's Best brown ale on tap... Had to be 38 IBU... I got really upset because I kept thinking brown ales were supposed to be malty and tasty, and this made me want to lay my tongue on some railroad tracks and let the next train take care of it. It just turns out that I learned something important... English Brown ales are delicious and balanced... American Brown Ales are just an excuse to jam hops into a dark colored beer... Why do us Americans ruin everything like that!? Interesting side note, my favorite beer ever was Gulden Draak, ever had it?

 

[Homercidal]

First beers I truly loved were Bock style. I recently went to a bar and ordered a Bell's Best brown ale on tap... Had to be 38 IBU... I got really upset because I kept thinking brown ales were supposed to be malty and tasty, and this made me want to lay my tongue on some railroad tracks and let the next train take care of it. It just turns out that I learned something important... English Brown ales are delicious and balanced... American Brown Ales are just an excuse to jam hops into a dark colored beer... Why do us Americans ruin everything like that!? Interesting side note, my favorite beer ever was Gulden Draak, ever had it?

And you know the BJCP differentiates between English Brown Ales, and American Brown Ales, right? They are different. Specifically the type and amount of hops. Somewhat the ABV.

IMO the hops are well balanced for an American Brown. Certainly not as hoppy as Tasty's Janet's Brown Ale, which is admittedly a fairly hoppy, fairly high ABV American Brown Ale.

I remember a few years back when Bass Pale Ale seemed very bitter to me. Ah, youth!

 

[SavaShip]

And you know the BJCP differentiates between English Brown Ales, and American Brown Ales, right? They are different. Specifically the type and amount of hops. Somewhat the ABV.

IMO the hops are well balanced for an American Brown. Certainly not as hoppy as Tasty's Janet's Brown Ale, which is admittedly a fairly hoppy, fairly high ABV American Brown Ale.

I remember a few years back when Bass Pale Ale seemed very bitter to me. Ah, youth!

Yes, which is why I made the statement that Americans ruin everything. The BJCP basically says English Brown Ales go from 12-30 IBU Southern ones upper is at 20 IBU... While American Brown Ales go from 20-Infinity IBU (that's what 40+ means) Good luck finding a bar that can tell you if a Brown Ale on tap is English or American though. The fact that there is no upper limit on bittering units for the American Brown Ale is just further proof that most American beers are just nasty bottles of bitter crap designed only for 20% of people who are genetically missing taste buds.

 

[two_hearted]

I've touched my beloved daughter and turned her into hops! You've twisted my wish!!!!

More seriously, I also read a recent article that people fall into 3 categories, non-tasters, tasters, and supertasters. This is directly related to the taste of bitter. Tasters normally dislike Brussels Sprouts, sometimes Cabbage.. Supertasters normally hate broccoli along with those other vegetables. I seem to fall into the category of a taster. It was theorized that as much as 20% of the population could fall into the category of non-taster. So people who enjoy IPAs might just be people with fewer tastebuds that evolution accidentally spared by not poisoning their ancestors. So according to modern science if someone says, "I enjoy an IPA" You can reply with: "You have no taste." and be literally, not figuratively right!

That's one way of looking at it. The other would be that super-tasters have much more sensitive taste buds. So, if someone says, "I don't enjoy IPAs" You can reply with:"You are very sensitive." and be literally, not figuratively right!

 

[two_hearted]

I don't get why some many people are getting on this "everything is too hoppy, too high in alcohol, blah blah blah" bandwagon. There is more beer to try than ever before in the US. Yes, American styles tend to have more hops and higher abv, but there are plenty of beers across the spectrum being brewed in the US. I can walk into one of many, many bars around me and find tons of options. I have local breweries in Ohio that specialize in german beer and sours. New local breweries are putting out great kolsch, blondes, english brown ales, belgian styles, and more all the time. Maybe its behind the times up in Minnesota, but I find that hard to believe (other than how much you love rollerblades). You just seem to have a terrible attitude about American craft beer.

There is so much beer out there. Yes, some of it is bad. I've had some awful english beers, I've had a ton of terrible IPAs, I really don't care for German lagers. The key is to figure out what you like and why you like. Don't just find one thing you hate and then start some stupid rant about IPAs. Its been done. Get over it. Go start a thread about how amazing the subtleties of a nice English brown are...

 

[Homercidal]

Yes, which is why I made the statement that Americans ruin everything. The BJCP basically says English Brown Ales go from 12-30 IBU Southern ones upper is at 20 IBU... While American Brown Ales go from 20-Infinity IBU (that's what 40+ means) Good luck finding a bar that can tell you if a Brown Ale on tap is English or American though. The fact that there is no upper limit on bittering units for the American Brown Ale is just further proof that most American beers are just nasty bottles of bitter crap designed only for 20% of people who are genetically missing taste buds.

And the BJCP designates Bell's Best Brown as an example of an AMERICAN BROWN ALE, not an English Brown Ale.

Why hold the rest of us craft beer drinkers accountable for your dislike of hop bitterness? Do you know why there are so many hoppy beers out there? I'll give a hint, it's not because only 20% of craft beer drinkers enjoy hoppy beers.

There are lots of malty beers out there to try. I would check the BJCP guidelines and choose a few that are more aligned with your tastes. A lot of English and Scottish beers are more malty, as well as Ambers and many others.

I do agree that there are plenty of hoppy beers out there, but the reality is that craft beer drinkers generally acquire a taste for hops as they continue to try different styles. I like to say that everyone becomes a hophead eventually!

 

[Homercidal]

Oh, and the BJCP sets the IBUs for an American Brown Ale at 40. The Northern English IBU's upper limit is 30. There isn't that much difference between them.

Check out this handy graph for finding beers that less bitter!

http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/01/24/beer-styles-ibu-chart-graph-bitterness-range/

 

[Yooper]

..................The fact that there is no upper limit on bittering units for the American Brown Ale is just further proof that most American beers are just nasty bottles of bitter crap designed only for 20% of people who are genetically missing taste buds.

Pretty harsh words for things that others may like.

"nasty bottles of bitter crap" is maybe your perception- but either dumb fools like me either like many styles of beer, or maybe you are the one with the problem.

I'm a certified BJCP judge, and I have a trained palate. I can pick out ingredients in food, wine, beer, and so on.

I love almost all styles of beer, but never could get into Belgians or sours. Instead of calling Belgians "nasty bubblegum fruit crap", I said "I could not get into them".

There are a lot of other things I can't stand out there- like Kraft Macaroni 'n Cheese- and won't buy them. But I would never be derogatory toward others who enjoy them.

There is a fine line between being a beer geek, and an intolerable ass.

 

[SavaShip]

And the BJCP designates Bell's Best Brown as an example of an AMERICAN BROWN ALE, not an English Brown Ale.

Why hold the rest of us craft beer drinkers accountable for your dislike of hop bitterness? Do you know why there are so many hoppy beers out there? I'll give a hint, it's not because only 20% of craft beer drinkers enjoy hoppy beers.

There are lots of malty beers out there to try. I would check the BJCP guidelines and choose a few that are more aligned with your tastes. A lot of English and Scottish beers are more malty, as well as Ambers and many others.

I do agree that there are plenty of hoppy beers out there, but the reality is that craft beer drinkers generally acquire a taste for hops as they continue to try different styles. I like to say that everyone becomes a hophead eventually!

Why be combative? The point here is A: no bar can tell you what beer is what style. "Bell" is an English name, so instead of misleading me by calling it "Best Brown" they should have called it "Best American Brown", or the bartender could have told me when I asked... Even in Tap Houses they have no clue. In fact, most American Tap Houses only represent 5 styles, even if they have 40 taps. I went to the Boulder Tap House in Baxter MN, they have 40 beers on tap. 26 of them were IPAs, and 10 were freakin' Ciders, and lambics don't count!! Do you know how many were malty and balanced (between 17-27 IBU)? I'll give you hint, it was less than 1. So yes, I hold you, the vocal minority with genetically missing taste buds accountable for making all tap houses believe that beers over 40 IBU are what beer drinkers want out of a "good" beer. I've drank beer for over 20 years, I have expanded my palette, but will never become a "hophead", because genetically I have taste buds that detect poison. You were silent, until there were a handful of "me too" agreements, now you need to move in and silence us, not just you, but others must join you to quell this hops rebellion. Oh no, someone might read this one, and a TapHouse might actually put a Bock, or English ale in one of their 40 taps!!! OH THE HORROR!!! The fact you're trying to silence me right now proves that you're the pushy ones... when it's people like me who are enslaved to not drinking decent, balanced beers in tap houses because you want your opinions to overshadow those of we little people who genetically have our taste buds and understand when something tastes like poison.

 

[SavaShip]

Pretty harsh words for things that others may like.

"nasty bottles of bitter crap" is maybe your perception- but either dumb fools like me either like many styles of beer, or maybe you are the one with the problem.

I'm a certified BJCP judge, and I have a trained palate. I can pick out ingredients in food, wine, beer, and so on.

Do me a favor, go to a local chemistry teacher and do the PTC test, and find out if you even have a full palate. Because unless you genetically can taste it, you have no idea how terrible it tastes to people who can. Here's further reading on it:
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/inheritance/ptc/

 

[Keith66]

Interesting side note, my favorite beer ever was Gulden Draak, ever had it?

Not yet, but it won't be long now. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[dudius]

Why be combative? The point here is A: no bar can tell you what beer is what style. "Bell" is an English name, so instead of misleading me by calling it "Best Brown" they should have called it "Best American Brown", or the bartender could have told me when I asked... Even in Tap Houses they have no clue. In fact, most American Tap Houses only represent 5 styles, even if they have 40 taps. I went to the Boulder Tap House in Baxter MN, they have 40 beers on tap. 26 of them were IPAs, and 10 were freakin' Ciders, and lambics don't count!! Do you know how many were malty and balanced (between 17-27 IBU)? I'll give you hint, it was less than 1. So yes, I hold you, the vocal minority with genetically missing taste buds accountable for making all tap houses believe that beers over 40 IBU are what beer drinkers want out of a "good" beer. I've drank beer for over 20 years, I have expanded my palette, but will never become a "hophead", because genetically I have taste buds that detect poison. You were silent, until there were a handful of "me too" agreements, now you need to move in and silence us, not just you, but others must join you to quell this hops rebellion. Oh no, someone might read this one, and a TapHouse might actually put a Bock, or English ale in one of their 40 taps!!! OH THE HORROR!!! The fact you're trying to silence me right now proves that you're the pushy ones... when it's people like me who are enslaved to not drinking decent, balanced beers in tap houses because you want your opinions to overshadow those of we little people who genetically have our taste buds and understand when something tastes like poison.

Wow. I am shocked someone would stoop so low as to accuse people of trying to squash you out with poison.

For one, you make a lot of assumptions about beer bars and people not knowing anything about beer. Not everyone is a cicerone, but lots of people at beer bars know their beer.

Not specifying between an English brown and an American brown shouldn't warrant your anger at another person. Maybe you're the one who should know Bell's is named after Larry Bell, who founded the brewery in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Maybe you're the one who should know that Bell's makes American-style beers.

Before anyone else goes into the tasters and non-tasters stuff any further, keep in mind that genetics can't control things that are altered by behavior. I consider myself a non-taster (never taken a test but I seem to fit the category) BUT at one point I only drank sweet bocks, red ales, and brown ales. A while after I got into craft beer my lifestyle changed and I began drinking strong coffee, it wasn't until after the strong coffee that I began drinking stronger tea. From there I began appreciating bitter stouts and IPAs. Why? Because my palate shifted.

I wasn't just deadening my taste buds either, I've learned to detect subtleties in beer as well. Not as well as some, but definitely better than many.

Don't think yourself enslaved, just remember you're part of a niche in the craft beer world. Know the beer you like and seek it out. Also try pairing bitter beers with sweet foods, you'll find the cross-adaptation will quell the bitterness and make the sweetness more enjoyable.

And if you don't enjoy the beer on the market, you can always brew your own. Cheers!

 

[SavaShip]

Wow. I am shocked someone would stoop so low as to accuse people of trying to squash you out with poison.

To be fair, I said "tastes like poison" so I didn't really stoop low at all. Not knowing "Bell's Brewery" was the one in in Kalamazoo Michigan, and not the "Bell's Brewery" from Maidenhead England... hardly my fault, I later looked up "Best Brown" (we don't all use the internet at the bar) and found that it was indeed an American Brown Ale, but the audacity of stealing a brewery name from England, and having a Brown Ale that didn't use the term "American" in it was what got me mad. Back to tasting poison, that is exactly what the PTC gene is designed for, to warn humans of things that are poisonous. Here's another good external beer link that touches on the subject:
http://billybrew.com/genetics-ipa

 

[JonGrafto]

To be fair, I said "tastes like poison" so I didn't really stoop low at all. Not knowing "Bell's Brewery" was the one in in Kalamazoo Michigan, and not the "Bell's Brewery" from Maidenhead England... hardly my fault, I later looked up "Best Brown" (we don't all use the internet at the bar) and found that it was indeed an American Brown Ale, but the audacity of stealing a brewery name from England, and having a Brown Ale that didn't use the term "American" in it was what got me mad. Back to tasting poison, that is exactly what the PTC gene is designed for, to warn humans of things that are poisonous. Here's another good external beer link that touches on the subject:
http://billybrew.com/genetics-ipa

^^^ Who is this guy????

I would have thought that you living in Minnesota, would have at least heard of Bell's Brewery and known they were from Michigan (they are only a state and a half away) instead of assuming an English brewery named Bells. (By the way, it was the Bell Brewery in Maidenhead and it hasn't been around in over 80 years after Nicholson's bought it in 1922 but there is a Pub name The Bell there.)

I don't know, maybe you are a transplant from Europe that just can't get into American brews?? Eh.. To each their own...

And to set Yooper off that like??? You hate to see such a rookie move.

 

[Homercidal]

Why be combative? The point here is A: no bar can tell you what beer is what style. "Bell" is an English name, so instead of misleading me by calling it "Best Brown" they should have called it "Best American Brown", or the bartender could have told me when I asked... Even in Tap Houses they have no clue. In fact, most American Tap Houses only represent 5 styles, even if they have 40 taps. I went to the Boulder Tap House in Baxter MN, they have 40 beers on tap. 26 of them were IPAs, and 10 were freakin' Ciders, and lambics don't count!! Do you know how many were malty and balanced (between 17-27 IBU)? I'll give you hint, it was less than 1. So yes, I hold you, the vocal minority with genetically missing taste buds accountable for making all tap houses believe that beers over 40 IBU are what beer drinkers want out of a "good" beer. I've drank beer for over 20 years, I have expanded my palette, but will never become a "hophead", because genetically I have taste buds that detect poison. You were silent, until there were a handful of "me too" agreements, now you need to move in and silence us, not just you, but others must join you to quell this hops rebellion. Oh no, someone might read this one, and a TapHouse might actually put a Bock, or English ale in one of their 40 taps!!! OH THE HORROR!!! The fact you're trying to silence me right now proves that you're the pushy ones... when it's people like me who are enslaved to not drinking decent, balanced beers in tap houses because you want your opinions to overshadow those of we little people who genetically have our taste buds and understand when something tastes like poison.

I certainly didn't mean to be combative, and I apologize if I sounded that way. I think if you went back and read my first posts, it is clear that I agreed there are a lot of hoppy beers out there, and I suggested you seek out beers that you like.

After it became apparent that you had a palate definitely skewed toward disliking bitter, and that your tastes simply do not align themselves with the vast majority of craft beer drinkers, I stated as much. AND I even offered you a link to help you find more beers that you would enjoy.

As a long time craft beer drinker and Homebrewer I realized a long time ago that I had to do a lot of research if I wanted to get a handle on who makes what. I understand that most places don't educate their servers on beer (Although I was surprised that Buffalo Wild Wings has all of their servers study and take an exam on some basic beer facts. As a matter of fact, the bartender I chatted with about 2 years ago had a question on her exam which asked "What style of beer is Newcastle?" I told her it was an English Brown, but I wasn't sure if it was Northern or Southern.) Because of this I spent a lot of time trying stuff I had no clue about. It didn't always agree with me, but I learned.

If you are at a place and don't know if you will like a beer or not, just ask the server if you can get a small sample. I haven't come across a taproom or brewery that wasn't eager to let you taste first.

Most breweries will have at least one or two fairly malty beers to offer, and again, I think it would be worth your while to read up on them and seek them out, but I think if you look at the facts, most people consider balanced to be different from what you think it is.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Not specifying between an English brown and an American brown shouldn't warrant your anger at another person. Maybe you're the one who should know Bell's is named after Larry Bell, who founded the brewery in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Maybe you're the one who should know that Bell's makes American-style beers.

Oh, and just to warn Savaship, Bell's Two Hearted Ale is a bitter American IPA.

And it doesn't have any hearts in it, American or English!

And while we're at it, Stone Levitation Ale won't make you able to fly.

MORE LABELING MADNESS!

 

[garcia]

The way I see it, there is 2 solutions to this problem.

1) you home brew what you want.
2) a quick internet search will tell you what style of beer you are about to order.

 

[Keith66]

ALRIGHT-ALRIGHT-ALRIGHT!!!... I agree with most of what I've read here. My taste in beer sounds very similar to SavaShip's, as my previous posts here have said. I also agree with SavaShip that most public establishments, be they markets, bars or restaurants, stock many more hoppy beers than otherwise, and non-hoppy varieties, especially classic continental styles, are relatively hard to find. I've ordered iced tea or lemonade in many places after looking at the beer list and seeing only BMC, the usual macros, and hoppy IPAs and American-style craft beers. I live in California, and I suspect the ratio of bitter:non-bitter beers is higher out here than say Ohio (two hearted). I agree with SavaShip that most of these establishments aren't very educated about what they serve. If you disagree with this, switch over to the thread "Funny things you've overheard about beer" where this public and marketing ignorance is humorously highlighted.

I also agree with most of the other folks in this thread, especially Homercidal and Yooper (who both have my respect for their vast experience and knowledge, not to mention tolerance as moderators), and with my own hard-won experience, that too much b!tching about what we don't like just p!sses everybody off. Trust me, I'm good at it. dudius just posted "And if you don't enjoy the beer on the market, you can always brew your own." That's exactly why I started homebrewing, and it's why I now brew and drink 100% beers that I like, and very little store bought. There's a whole lot of non-hoppy beers going through my house including some nasty bubblegum fruit crap (love ya Yoop! ), even sours. I don't get upset when people hate the beers I like, even poke fun over it, but let's not badger each other. SavaShip, I love your taste in brews and agree with your assessment of the market; I appreciate your edgy humor; but you gotta (and I hate it when people say this to me) RDWHAHB! Prost!

 

[b-boy]

I'd assume that most places will stock what they can sell. If something doesn't sell well, it's gonna be removed from the lineup. I think you'll probably have better luck looking for a bar that specializes in bottles over taps. They will usually have a better selection since they only need to keep a few six packs around.

When I go somewhere with a crappy beer selection, I usually just get a Lager of some kind. You generally can't go wrong there.

Oh - BTW. Right now there is an American in England bitching about how malty all the beers are, and wondering why he can't find a nice 12% 120 IBU hop bomb to drink. Damn Brits are ruining beer!

Just trying to put this thread into perspective for you.