Mouthfeel/Body

[skleice]

After moving to all grain, I've been able to make some pretty tasty gf brews. But, the thing that is lacking the most is the mouthfeel/body. Recently, I brewed 2 IPAs with the same grist and yeast (S04), but one had 18% GF rolled oats and the other had none. I was expecting big difference between the two, but, that's not what I experienced. Both beers had a thin mouthfeel, body, and head that did not stick around. Both tasted/smelled good, but fell short in body imo. The 18% oats brew is turbid and unattractive (I love hazy ipas, but this is murky). Both brews were pale millet malt base + 10% biscuit rice, & 10% buckwheat malt doughed in at 106, ramped up to 168 and dropped to 150ish (one had 18% oats).

Anyway, have you found a method to deal with the thin feel?

Success with oats? Quinoa, Buckweat?

Buckwheat percentage?

Mash temp? Are my oats being mashed at too high temp?

Should I drop the biscuit rice malt and stick to millet?


Any help would be appreciated. I'm trying to get a good base grist to work with for my IPAs to start.

Thanks!

 

[brewGF]

I am doing extract brewing with sorghum and a partial Mash, but I feel like aging helps a lot. I just had a hazelnut Brown that I brewed some time ago and I steeped in three quarters of a pound of quinoa in a pound of toasted oats has a very nice head and body. I know that probably doesn't help a lot but I'm wondering if other people feel like, with time, their beers evolve to have better head retention.

 

[glutarded-chris]

What was your OG on the batches that you felt were thin?
With my sorghum extract brews I had to add maltodextrin for them not to feel thin. The one all grain batch I made using some maltodextrin ended up too syrupy, so I don't use it on all grain any more. Lately I shoot for OG of 1.050 to 1.055 on all grain batches. Too high and it suffers from being too boozy and too low and it goes toward thin, I think.

If you are happy with the alcohol content and flavor but feel it is a little thin, then you could add a little maltodextrin. Otherwise, maybe go a little higher on OG.

Time definitely helps smooth things out, but I normally have difficulty waiting. I use buckwheat and force carbonate so I get head that lasts long enough.

 

[TahoePowderHound]

I recently listened to an episode of the Four Brewers Podcast, Episode 202: Gluten-Free Brewing with Robert Keifer. He's big on buckwheat and absolutely swears by the "magic number" of 135 protein rest for it. I don't know if that will make a difference for body, but I know buckwheat helps with body in general. Maybe try upping the percentage. In the podcast he mentions using between 20-30% in a few of his beers. He also uses the Grainfather and talks about his process for adding maltodextrin. It might be a good listen if you have time to kill on a commute.

Have you tried the Fantastic Floyds IPA from GFHB? IPAs are def my favorite style to have on hand, so I'm searching for a solid grist to use with different hop profiles. I'm still new to this whole thing, especially recipe building, so I figured I'll start with this recipe and make tweaks from there. I'm brewing it up this weekend. It'll be my first beer with buckwheat and I'm hoping it improves the mouthfeel from the previous beers I've brewed. (it has 12.5%).

 

[skleice]

What was your OG on the batches that you felt were thin?
With my sorghum extract brews I had to add maltodextrin for them not to feel thin. The one all grain batch I made using some maltodextrin ended up too syrupy, so I don't use it on all grain any more. Lately I shoot for OG of 1.050 to 1.055 on all grain batches. Too high and it suffers from being too boozy and too low and it goes toward thin, I think.

I think I'm just used to that Pillowy Tree House/Trillium body. My OG was 1.065, but finished a little low. I think I need to dial back the AMG-300 a bit. I'm probably also over pitching on these 3 gallon batches, especially with an aggressive yeast like S-04. My next brew will be with M36 and I'll pitch less into the fermenter. I may experiment with maltodextrin or lactose in the future, but no immediate plans.

The beers are not boozy at all, but have a cidery kind of feel to them. I have not treated my water either, which I understand is a big part of that NE mouthfeel. I made a Zoe clone in the Winter that had great body, head and glass lacing. That was 1.074.

 

[skleice]

I recently listened to an episode of the Four Brewers Podcast, Episode 202: Gluten-Free Brewing with Robert Keifer. He's big on buckwheat and absolutely swears by the "magic number" of 135 protein rest for it. I don't know if that will make a difference for body, but I know buckwheat helps with body in general. Maybe try upping the percentage. In the podcast he mentions using between 20-30% in a few of his beers. He also uses the Grainfather and talks about his process for adding maltodextrin. It might be a good listen if you have time to kill on a commute.

Have you tried the Fantastic Floyds IPA from GFHB? IPAs are def my favorite style to have on hand, so I'm searching for a solid grist to use with different hop profiles. I'm still new to this whole thing, especially recipe building, so I figured I'll start with this recipe and make tweaks from there. I'm brewing it up this weekend. It'll be my first beer with buckwheat and I'm hoping it improves the mouthfeel from the previous beers I've brewed. (it has 12.5%).

I will give it a listen!

I've already adjusted my next recipe to include 15% buckwheat instead of 10%. I'm also going to ditch the oats. From what I've read the high lipid levels decrease head. I'm also picking up some of the green apple flavor described in this article. Apparently, that should fade over time...

https://scottjanish.com/case-brewing-oats/

I did brew Fantastic Floyds. It was my second all grain batch. I did not hit my OG on that one, as I was trying to figure out my rough stovetop system. From what I remember, it tasted good though. It should work out well for you!

 

[Jettaguy]

I have added maltodextrin to mine as well I find the buckwheat does help. However I did just finish up an Extra Stout a few weeks back and used some GF oats and buckwheat and it came up a little thin. I think it wound be just upping the ratios to adjust.

 

[skleice]

I recently listened to an episode of the Four Brewers Podcast, Episode 202: Gluten-Free Brewing with Robert Keifer. He's big on buckwheat and absolutely swears by the "magic number" of 135 protein rest for it. I don't know if that will make a difference for body, but I know buckwheat helps with body in general. Maybe try upping the percentage. In the podcast he mentions using between 20-30% in a few of his beers. He also uses the Grainfather and talks about his process for adding maltodextrin. It might be a good listen if you have time to kill on a commute.

Loved the podcast! Some great info. Here's a new interview that was just posted yesterday..

 

[TahoePowderHound]

Loved the podcast! Some great info. Here's a new interview that was just posted yesterday..

Oh nice, thanks for sharing! Just don't tell my boss I watched it on the clock ;P

 

[skleice]

Oh nice, thanks for sharing! Just don't tell my boss I watched it on the clock ;P

Ummmm....me too

I actually emailed him and he got back to me right away! Here's the process he shared with me:

135 Mash-in (30 Mins- add all amalyse)
152F (1.5 Hr)
163F (30 Min)
Mash out 168
Sparge
He also stirs mash at each stage.

He also may have solved my oats problem. I need to cold crash at a lower temp so the oat fats seperate and settle out. Hopefully, this works!

Gonna use this process on Monday.

 

[TahoePowderHound]

Sounds great, let us know how it works.

 

[rjmaillie]

This a great thread, lots good information here!

From my experience, I don't think there is a single answer to this. You should look firstly at enzyme load, mash temps, attenuation and final gravity. For example, the beta amylase enzymes we add tend to be very aggressive and I've been messing around with trying to keep them reined in. Using Diatase, I add only 1 ml per 5 pounds of grain, sacc rest at 155° for 75 minutes (after gelatinization) and add the enzymes for the last 45 minutes only. Attenuation, depending on yeast and beer style, ranges from 79% to 83%, regardless of starting gravity. And I'd like to get it lower in some cases, so it's still a work in progress. And obviously results will vary depending on your brewing process and equipment, but that's the gist of it.

Water chemistry had been a big revelation to me. I don't fully understand what exactly is going on yet, but with the help of the various water calculators, adjusting mash pH and salts has made a big difference in the quality of my beer. Its nice to be able to make adjustments to body/maltiness or bitterness depending on beer style. To help with body I tend to add 80-100 ppm calcium chloride to the mash water (style dependent).

For grain additions the standard is 10% buckwheat, regardless of grain bill or beer style. Oats have a unique mouthfeel to them that i don't think is appropriate for all styles. And don't forget specialty malts. Crystal or cara malts in small quantities can add body without affecting flavor or color too much. My go-to lately has been the roasted cara millet from Grouse at about 2-3% of grain bill.

Thats what has been working for me. Marginal gains - basically the thinking that a lot of little things make a noticeable difference.

 

[skleice]

Ummmm....me too

I actually emailed him and he got back to me right away! Here's the process he shared with me:

135 Mash-in (30 Mins- add all amalyse)
152F (1.5 Hr)
163F (30 Min)
Mash out 168
Sparge
He also stirs mash at each stage.

He also may have solved my oats problem. I need to cold crash at a lower temp so the oat fats seperate and settle out. Hopefully, this works!

Gonna use this process on Monday.

Just finished up the mash with the above method. Hit my preboil gravity and volume just as I would with the 170---->154 method many of us have used. I also used less enzymes, but don't really know how much impact that made. Not sure how it will effect the final product.

Anyway, lots of ways to skin this cat. It was nice to not have to drop the mash temp.

 

[JMath]

It's interesting to see a process that doesn't require a temp drop and see success with it. I'll have a listen to that podcast.

 

[brewGF]

I just brewed a sorghum-based batch and steeped in some cara roasted millet and unmalted buckwheat. I also added 8oz of maca as an experiment. My carboy is 1/3 full of sludge at the bottom from the hops and maca, but I think mostly muck from the buckwheat.

Does anyone have tips for steeping buckwheat? Should it be toasted first? Or should I not do it at all?

Thanks for any advice !

 

[rjmaillie]

Yes, you do get a lot of residual proteins from the buckwheat when steeping and even mashing. This is normal. GF grains tend to cause more trub than traditional grains, but use them as is and it does eventually settle down into the fermenter. Maybe in this case it was the maca?

 

[TahoePowderHound]

After moving to all grain, I've been able to make some pretty tasty gf brews. But, the thing that is lacking the most is the mouthfeel/body. Recently, I brewed 2 IPAs with the same grist and yeast (S04), but one had 18% GF rolled oats and the other had none. I was expecting big difference between the two, but, that's not what I experienced. Both beers had a thin mouthfeel, body, and head that did not stick around. Both tasted/smelled good, but fell short in body imo. The 18% oats brew is turbid and unattractive (I love hazy ipas, but this is murky). Both brews were pale millet malt base + 10% biscuit rice, & 10% buckwheat malt doughed in at 106, ramped up to 168 and dropped to 150ish (one had 18% oats).

Anyway, have you found a method to deal with the thin feel?

Success with oats? Quinoa, Buckweat?

Buckwheat percentage?

Mash temp? Are my oats being mashed at too high temp?

Should I drop the biscuit rice malt and stick to millet?


Any help would be appreciated. I'm trying to get a good base grist to work with for my IPAs to start.

Thanks!

Hey Skleice, I found an article about brewing with oats last night that is somewhat relevant to your concerns here. The two main takeaways I thought were interesting are that you need a minimum of 18% oats to have any noticeable difference in viscosity, and that anything over 10% oats will cause the head retention to "suffer dramatically".

Maybe you've read this and that's why you chose 18% as the amount of oats to add? If not, there's some interesting data here:

http://scottjanish.com/case-brewing-oats/

 

[brewGF]

Yes, you do get a lot of residual proteins from the buckwheat when steeping and even mashing. This is normal. GF grains tend to cause more trub than traditional grains, but use them as is and it does eventually settle down into the fermenter. Maybe in this case it was the maca?

Thanks rjmaille. It could be the maca powder - I did a little test in water and the residual seemed to just collect at the bottom compacted, but the reaction in wort could be very different.

I will also try this magic number of 135 degrees for steeping the buckwheat - if it's a good place for mashing seems like it should apply to steeping as well.

 

[glutarded-chris]

Just finished up the mash with the above method. Hit my preboil gravity and volume just as I would with the 170---->154 method many of us have used. I also used less enzymes, but don't really know how much impact that made. Not sure how it will effect the final product.

Anyway, lots of ways to skin this cat. It was nice to not have to drop the mash temp.

That is very interesting. Interested to know what enzymes you used and what your extraction volume and gravity were. I noticed a huge difference with the termamyl but I think I started that at the same time as going to up to ~165F and coming back down to the diatase enzyme sweet spot 145F-153F.

 

[skleice]

Enyzmes were Termamyl and SEBAmyl L - Both added before grains. Preboil Gravity was 1.038.


Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 3 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 4.3 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.038
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.012
ABV (standard): 5.53%
IBU (tinseth): 49.93
SRM (morey): 4.82

FERMENTABLES:
0.8 lb - Flaked Oats (10%)
0.4 lb - Rice Hulls (5%)
4.4 lb - Pale Millet Malt (55%)
1.2 lb - Buckwheat Malt (15%)
0.8 lb - Biscuit Rice Malt (10%)
0.4 lb - CaraMillet Malt (5%)

HOPS:
4 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 170 °F, IBU: 49.93
1 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
1 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 135 F, Time: 30 min, Amount: 3.51 gal
2) Temperature, Temp: 152 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 3.51 gal,
3) Temperature, Temp: 163 F, Time: 30 min, Amount: 3.51 gal,
4) Temperature, Temp: 168 F, Time: 10 min, Amount: 3.51 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 tsp - Yeast Nutrient, Time: 15 min, Type: Other, Use: Boil
1.33 tbsp - Termamyl, Time: 1 min, Type: Other, Use: Mash
0.5 tsp - SEBAmyl L, Time: 1 min, Type: Other, Use: Mash

YEAST:
Mangrove Jack - Liberty Bell Ale M36

 

[glutarded-chris]

So you had 7.6lb grain and collected 4.3 gallons at 1.038. If I did the math correctly that is about 21.5 ppg. That looks respectable considering 15% roasted grain.

My guess is the Termamyl is doing its thing with the 30 minute rest at 163F, and that is where the most conversion benefit is coming from. I wonder if the long early rests are necessary.

One thing that caught my ear in the video interview was that he felt like he was fighting extracting tannins from the husks. He was not using additional enzymes and had super long rests to get his conversion. Therefore the husks were in the hot liquid for a really long time. Getting the mash times down has to be a benefit in that area.

With the 170 --> 150 process (short rest at 170F) the mash gravity went above 1.060 in 90 minutes total. I think that is much closer to barley mash times and has to be a benefit for tannin extraction.

It is a shame there is not more opportunity to compare and contrast!

Next week I am flying to Seattle for a family event and am going to Ghostfish and any other gluten free brewery I can find!

 

[skleice]

So you had 7.6lb grain and collected 4.3 gallons at 1.038. If I did the math correctly that is about 21.5 ppg. That looks respectable considering 15% roasted grain.

My guess is the Termamyl is doing its thing with the 30 minute rest at 163F, and that is where the most conversion benefit is coming from. I wonder if the long early rests are necessary.

I was already wondering the same if I could shorten the long rest. I took some gravity readings throughout and saw the biggest jump during the 163. I'll have to be more diligent about recording the specific readings/times. I'm still a newb...

I'm glad to see more frequent discussion in this forum. More brewers posting experiments/results will benefit all of us. Enjoy your trip!

 

[Jettaguy]

Enyzmes were Termamyl and SEBAmyl L - Both added before grains. Preboil Gravity was 1.038.


Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 3 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 4.3 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.038
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.012
ABV (standard): 5.53%
IBU (tinseth): 49.93
SRM (morey): 4.82

FERMENTABLES:
0.8 lb - Flaked Oats (10%)
0.4 lb - Rice Hulls (5%)
4.4 lb - Pale Millet Malt (55%)
1.2 lb - Buckwheat Malt (15%)
0.8 lb - Biscuit Rice Malt (10%)
0.4 lb - CaraMillet Malt (5%)

HOPS:
4 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 170 °F, IBU: 49.93
1 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
1 oz - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 135 F, Time: 30 min, Amount: 3.51 gal
2) Temperature, Temp: 152 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 3.51 gal,
3) Temperature, Temp: 163 F, Time: 30 min, Amount: 3.51 gal,
4) Temperature, Temp: 168 F, Time: 10 min, Amount: 3.51 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 tsp - Yeast Nutrient, Time: 15 min, Type: Other, Use: Boil
1.33 tbsp - Termamyl, Time: 1 min, Type: Other, Use: Mash
0.5 tsp - SEBAmyl L, Time: 1 min, Type: Other, Use: Mash

YEAST:
Mangrove Jack - Liberty Bell Ale M36

What equipment are you using for your mash? Just curious about changing temps during your mash and how you do it? I’ve basically got an 11 gallon mash tun cooler and I just do the usual 164 degrees.

 

[skleice]

What equipment are you using for your mash? Just curious about changing temps during your mash and how you do it? I’ve basically got an 11 gallon mash tun cooler and I just do the usual 164 degrees.

Grainfather. I had no prior brewing experience or equipment. The more I read, it was clear that I wanted to be able to recirulate to control the long rests. So far, I'm loving it.

I also have twin 3 year olds, so brewing in the kitchen is nice. I can brew whenever I want and still play with the kids and keep the wife happy.

 

[TahoePowderHound]

So you had 7.6lb grain and collected 4.3 gallons at 1.038. If I did the math correctly that is about 21.5 ppg. That looks respectable considering 15% roasted grain.

My guess is the Termamyl is doing its thing with the 30 minute rest at 163F, and that is where the most conversion benefit is coming from. I wonder if the long early rests are necessary.

One thing that caught my ear in the video interview was that he felt like he was fighting extracting tannins from the husks. He was not using additional enzymes and had super long rests to get his conversion. Therefore the husks were in the hot liquid for a really long time. Getting the mash times down has to be a benefit in that area.

With the 170 --> 150 process (short rest at 170F) the mash gravity went above 1.060 in 90 minutes total. I think that is much closer to barley mash times and has to be a benefit for tannin extraction.

It is a shame there is not more opportunity to compare and contrast!

Next week I am flying to Seattle for a family event and am going to Ghostfish and any other gluten free brewery I can find!

I'll be missing you in Seattle by one week! I'm headed there the 22-24. I somehow managed to get the wife on board with doing Seattle for our anniversary, although I think she knows my hidden agenda..
Please let me know if you find any other worthy GF breweries/restaurants!

 

[JMath]

Next week I am flying to Seattle for a family event and am going to Ghostfish and any other gluten free brewery I can find!

Ghostfish is awesome! Including their food.

 

[JMath]

I don't know if you guys are into cider but there are several good cider places in Seattle. Ghostfish is the only GF brewery in Washington AFAIK.

 

[TahoePowderHound]

I don't know if you guys are into cider but there are several good cider places in Seattle. Ghostfish is the only GF brewery in Washington AFAIK.

Love me some cider, I'll have to do some digging, thanks for the heads up!

 

[glutarded-chris]

JMath, I think you are right that Ghostfish is the only one in Washington state. We will be eating and drinking there at least one afternoon, but I may have to campaign to go more than once. Sorry I will miss you TahoPowderHound, it would be good to meet a fellow GF brewer.

I think there are several GF breweries in the Portland Oregon area, and in July I have the opportunity to fly there also. I had my first GF brew on tap years ago at Deschutes and will definitely be visiting there again this next trip.

I was not originally a cider fan, but cider has grown on me since more bars and restaurants carry cider than GF beer. In the US, though, the commercial ciders are WAY too sweet and it is a challenge to find dry ciders. Some restaurants carry "proper" cider, but it is rare. I will definitely look up cideries in Portland and Seattle. I have been to several cideries in Charlotte North Carolina because my company has a factory there. They have more than their fair share of cideries.

 

[skleice]

JMath, I think you are right that Ghostfish is the only one in Washington state. We will be eating and drinking there at least one afternoon, but I may have to campaign to go more than once. Sorry I will miss you TahoPowderHound, it would be good to meet a fellow GF brewer.

I think there are several GF breweries in the Portland Oregon area, and in July I have the opportunity to fly there also. I had my first GF brew on tap years ago at Deschutes and will definitely be visiting there again this next trip.

I was not originally a cider fan, but cider has grown on me since more bars and restaurants carry cider than GF beer. In the US, though, the commercial ciders are WAY too sweet and it is a challenge to find dry ciders. Some restaurants carry "proper" cider, but it is rare. I will definitely look up cideries in Portland and Seattle. I have been to several cideries in Charlotte North Carolina because my company has a factory there. They have more than their fair share of cideries.

I highly recommend Graft Cider out of NY. They make wild fermented ciders using all kinds of creative ingredients. If you're a sour beer fan, they're a pretty good substitute.

 

[glutarded-chris]

I have had some NY ciders. I visit friends that own a wine shop in Clinton Corners NY every year. Since there are not many good commercial GF beers, they alway get some cider for me.

I have never had a sour beer, so i don’t know what i am missing.

 

[skleice]

Just wanna update this thread after drinking both beers over some time. There is a noticeable difference in mouth feel between the 2 beers. The beer with 18% oats has a fuller and smoother feel to it. It also has a hazy appearance. Neither beer has good head retention.

I will continue to incorporate oats. I like the effect they are having on these IPAs. I may try some quinoa and will definitely cold crash at a lower temperature per Robert Keifer's advice.

On another note, my Passion fruit Wit came out awesome!

 

[skleice]

So you had 7.6lb grain and collected 4.3 gallons at 1.038. If I did the math correctly that is about 21.5 ppg. That looks respectable considering 15% roasted grain.

My guess is the Termamyl is doing its thing with the 30 minute rest at 163F, and that is where the most conversion benefit is coming from. I wonder if the long early rests are necessary.

One thing that caught my ear in the video interview was that he felt like he was fighting extracting tannins from the husks. He was not using additional enzymes and had super long rests to get his conversion. Therefore the husks were in the hot liquid for a really long time. Getting the mash times down has to be a benefit in that area.

With the 170 --> 150 process (short rest at 170F) the mash gravity went above 1.060 in 90 minutes total. I think that is much closer to barley mash times and has to be a benefit for tannin extraction.

It is a shame there is not more opportunity to compare and contrast!

Next week I am flying to Seattle for a family event and am going to Ghostfish and any other gluten free brewery I can find!

Just brewed another APA with similar (though larger) grain bill using the Robert Keifer schedule. I took some readings along the way. Wish I took one at start of 152.


10.25lb grain with 1.5qt water/grain. Enzymes added before grain.

135 for 30 min
152 for 90 min (1.045 at 45 min, then 1.048 at 75 min)
163 for 30 min (1.048 at start, 1.051 at 15 min, 1.053 at 30 min)
168 for 10 min (1.055 after 10 min mash out)

So, it seems that the Termamyl is indeed doing the heavy lifting during the higher temps. I will gladly shave 15 minutes+ off of the 152 rest on my next brew.

Regarding the astringency - I thought I was getting astringency from the hops, but after listening to him, I think it was from allowing the mash to go above 170. The sample of my last brew that only reached 168 seems much smoother, but I can't really know until it is packaged.

 

[TahoePowderHound]

What are you doing as far as water profiles? I just got the test results back from Ward Labs on my tap water. I'm only now diving in to water profiles/chemistry, I'm definitely still learning. So far I'm using Beersmiths profile tool and it's actually pretty easy.

While searching for a profile to use with an IPA recipe, I came across a thread on another site for Juicy/NE IPA profile. It seems to be the consensus that using 100+ppm Chloride and 150ppm Sulfate leads to improved mouthfeel common in the hazy IPA category. Not sure how much a difference it really makes, but I think I'm going to try it on my next brew, with 18% oats.

Speaking of oats, I've only ever steeped them in a partial mash. Are you just adding GF quick oats to your mash along with the rest of the grain?

 

[skleice]

What are you doing as far as water profiles? I just got the test results back from Ward Labs on my tap water. I'm only now diving in to water profiles/chemistry, I'm definitely still learning. So far I'm using Beersmiths profile tool and it's actually pretty easy.

While searching for a profile to use with an IPA recipe, I came across a thread on another site for Juicy/NE IPA profile. It seems to be the consensus that using 100+ppm Chloride and 150ppm Sulfate leads to improved mouthfeel common in the hazy IPA category. Not sure how much a difference it really makes, but I think I'm going to try it on my next brew, with 18% oats.

Speaking of oats, I've only ever steeped them in a partial mash. Are you just adding GF quick oats to your mash along with the rest of the grain?

Funny you should ask. I literally just dropped my Ward sample to the post office. I've just been using tap water thus far, but have soft water.

Yes you can add the oats (I use Bob's Red Mill) just don't mill them.

 

[stickyfinger]

I've found that my perception of body increases when i do a few things:

- increase the OG of the beer - to keep the ABV the same (if that is required) i mash hotter - for IPAs in particular, I don't really make them below 1.070 or maybe 1.065 anymore. They just can't stand up to the massive dryhop below that in my experience.
- add some lactose. i used 0.5 lb/5.5G but I think 1 lb/5.5G would be fine to start with.
- i've always wanted to try food grade glycerin. i'm sure that would increase the perception of body.
- nitro makes beers seem fuller of course but radically changes the beer
- less carbonation makes a beer seem fuller
- use a less attenuative yeast, like wlp002/wy1968
- you could try one of the Conan strains if you want. They can be kind of finicky though. I made a great session IPA with one once. It just stalled out much earlier than I thought it would, but the resulting beer had an amazing full flavor thanks to the residual sugars it left behind. It would have been awful in a bigger beer, but it was fine in my lower OG version.

 

[rjmaillie]

Over the last few weeks I brewed three beers and added a 15 min 135° rest to each. They are all in various stages of fermentation and conditioning, but what I'm noticing is they are clearing up more than usual as fermentation finishes. Same yeast and grain bill as before, but much clearer beer. Now I'm interested to see what it does to head retention, but i wont be drinking these until September.

I'd be interested to hear what others have experienced with this rest.

 

[glutarded-chris]

135 for 30 min
152 for 90 min (1.045 at 45 min, then 1.048 at 75 min)
163 for 30 min (1.048 at start, 1.051 at 15 min, 1.053 at 30 min)
168 for 10 min (1.055 after 10 min mash out)

The conventional schedule has the gelatinization rest toward the start of the mash schedule and it looks like this schedule has it at the end. I think you want the gelatinization rest to break up the longer chains first so that the enzymes like diatase can do their job. A shorter gelatinization rest at high temp reduces the risk of extracting off flavors from the husk. With termamyl or equivalent, it seems people are having success with a variety of schedules. You might try your 168F rest for 15 to 30 min toward the beginning and then leave it at a lower temp for a longer conversion rest with something like diatase.

 

[glutarded-chris]

What are you doing as far as water profiles? I just got the test results back from Ward Labs.

I did a lot of internet research into water treatment early on including what Palmer had in “how to brew”. A lot of good information but also got thoroughly confused. Palmer cowrote a book called “water” i think and that ended up being what i used.

Having a water profile from Ward labs was critical. My experience is if the profile you want calls for a good amount of calcium, you just cant get there with adding salts to purified water because you get too much Cl and SO4. Also, it is nice to not have to buy so much water from the store or wait 3 weeks for reverse osmosis filter.

Just some salts to dial in the profile you want and some bisulfite to eliminate the chloramine and you are good to go.

 

[dmtaylor]

After moving to all grain, I've been able to make some pretty tasty gf brews. But, the thing that is lacking the most is the mouthfeel/body. Recently, I brewed 2 IPAs with the same grist and yeast (S04), but one had 18% GF rolled oats and the other had none. I was expecting big difference between the two, but, that's not what I experienced. Both beers had a thin mouthfeel, body, and head that did not stick around. Both tasted/smelled good, but fell short in body imo. The 18% oats brew is turbid and unattractive (I love hazy ipas, but this is murky). Both brews were pale millet malt base + 10% biscuit rice, & 10% buckwheat malt doughed in at 106, ramped up to 168 and dropped to 150ish (one had 18% oats).

Anyway, have you found a method to deal with the thin feel?

Success with oats? Quinoa, Buckweat?

Rye rye rye rye RYE. And NO, it does NOT taste "spicy" at all. More like an earthy breadiness.