More crap electronics

[chewse]

Not long ago, I purchased on Amazon: "DROK® Digital AC 100-300V 100A Voltage Current Voltmeter Ammeter 110V 220V Volt Amperage Power Monitor Ampere Amp Panel Mount Meter LCD Dual Displ" Over the weekend, I installed the device. It worked fine for about 3 hours and then just went dead. The elements and pumps were not turn on at the time; just the PIDs were going. I paid $16.81 for it but it drives me nuts with the cheap electronics from China that just don't last.

 

[MaxStout]

Return it. Amazon has a good return policy.

 

[trimixdiver1]

What do you expect? You get what you pay for. There are some better quality Chinese stuff out there. Try Aubirns.

 

[jsmsmk]

I really do not see the need for a volt/amp meter on these control panels. What do you gain from it? What are you going to do if say the voltage is 200? Besides it is another item to fail. Yes it looks nice when you show off your panel, but it does not make your beer better.

If your power source is changing enough to cause problems with brewing then you have an issue with anything connected to it.

I worked for over 40 years in a scientific laboratory building and servicing electronics control systems, we never had the need for a volt/amp meter on any of those systems.

 

[Homercidal]

It's all about the BLING!

I wouldn't see the advantage for me to have that stuff showing on my panel. I'd almost rather put a fake label on it and call it something cool to impress the visitors. Something like:

Flux Capacitor Units

Coolness Factor

Spacetime Ratio

 

[chewse]

I have a hole cut in my control panel for the **** volt/amp meter. Yeah, not need for it other than bling. If I don't put another one in, I'll have to find something "cool" to put in its place.

 

[Browningbuck]

I really do not see the need for a volt/amp meter on these control panels. What do you gain from it?

It's all about the BLING!


Spacetime Ratio

i dont see them as bling in the slightest. i turn on the panel and i see i have my 240 v this tells me i didnt have a failure between my sub panel and the brew panel(if i turned it on and it displayed 120 i would know i lost the neutral or the hot). with out this you are in the dark via information even before you start the day off. the amps i actually watch more than indicator lights or most the other aspects of the panel for quick information. electric elements fail and knowing what my amp draw quickly identifies the issue. I was in the middle of a brew day and i saw my rolling boil subsided quite a bit but was still going, looked up at the panel and saw i was only drawing 12 amps. knew right away i had a element failure. for the few bucks its worth the live feedback of data.

but hell electric brewing in of its self is BLING... hit up a trappist monk and hed laugh at the fact we have such bling as ......Thermometers

brew on with what ever hardware you see fit in your rig:rockin:

 

[user 163849]

I have a hole cut in my control panel for the **** volt/amp meter. Yeah, not need for it other than bling. If I don't put another one in, I'll have to find something "cool" to put in its place.

Just label the hole; "This space intentionally left blank.".

 

[RaHarmakis]

I have a hole cut in my control panel for the **** volt/amp meter. Yeah, not need for it other than bling. If I don't put another one in, I'll have to find something "cool" to put in its place.

Is it big enough for a Beta Fish? Random Fish Tanks make things better!!

 

[RedDog57]

I'd put in a speedometer/tachometer for bling.

 

[bu_gee]

Put a "Type R" sticker over the hole.

 

[MaxStout]

Do like case modders and have some cool lighting coming from behind the hole. Extra bling factor!

 

[Gameface]

I have the same meter. I was going to leave it out but it was cheap and although I don't consider volt out amp readings to be crucial I do think it will be good info to have as I'm learning my new brewery. Hopefully I got a good unit.

 

[TungstenBeer]

i dont see them as bling in the slightest. i turn on the panel and i see i have my 240 v this tells me i didnt have a failure between my sub panel and the brew panel(if i turned it on and it displayed 120 i would know i lost the neutral or the hot). with out this you are in the dark via information even before you start the day off. the amps i actually watch more than indicator lights or most the other aspects of the panel for quick information. electric elements fail and knowing what my amp draw quickly identifies the issue. I was in the middle of a brew day and i saw my rolling boil subsided quite a bit but was still going, looked up at the panel and saw i was only drawing 12 amps. knew right away i had a element failure. for the few bucks its worth the live feedback of data.

but hell electric brewing in of its self is BLING... hit up a trappist monk and hed laugh at the fact we have such bling as ......Thermometers

brew on with what ever hardware you see fit in your rig:rockin:

I agree with this. It helps to know what's going on. If my boil is coming up slower than usual, then maybe it's because it's summertime and I'm only at 223 volts. Or maybe there's an element failure, as mentioned.

I do believe it's some bling as well, but for the cost and the footprint it's more than worth it in functionality to me.

 

[trimixdiver1]

You could also put a temp probe in the panel and monitor enclosure temp to fill in the hole. There is always something that you can use to fill that hole.

 

[trimixdiver1]

I really do not see the need for a volt/amp meter on these control panels. What do you gain from it? What are you going to do if say the voltage is 200? Besides it is another item to fail. Yes it looks nice when you show off your panel, but it does not make your beer better.

If your power source is changing enough to cause problems with brewing then you have an issue with anything connected to it.

I worked for over 40 years in a scientific laboratory building and servicing electronics control systems, we never had the need for a volt/amp meter on any of those systems.

If you see your voltage at 200, then call the power company ASAP. You may have other devices in your home that could be damaged by an undervolt condition like this. Oh I guess that's a good reason to have a voltmeter in your panel. See, brewing beer can save your home! Tell that to your wife the next time she complains. "Honey I'm just thinking of the safety of my family when I put this meter in my brewing rig, honest."

 

[-CHRIS-]

It's all about the BLING!

Spacetime Ratio

It is super bling, how about the key switch? Seriously? Does my panel have one? Heck yes!

Since these panels draw so much power the ammeter is nice to see if anything is malfunctioning.

Chris

 

[jsmsmk]

It is super bling, how about the key switch? Seriously? Does my panel have one? Heck yes!

Since these panels draw so much power the ammeter is nice to see if anything is malfunctioning.

Chris

The key switch is more than just bling in my mind, it prevents young (well maybe even older) fingers from turning power on and burning up elements, etc.

Many power tools have a key or other method to do this preventing unauthorized use of the tool.

John

 

[JKoravos]

That's why good electronics are expensive. Quality control isn't cheap.

You could also put a temp probe in the panel and monitor enclosure temp to fill in the hole. There is always something that you can use to fill that hole.

That's what she said.

 

[trimixdiver1]

That's why good electronics are expensive. Quality control isn't cheap.







That's what she said.

Yes....

 

[augiedoggy]

What do you expect? You get what you pay for. There are some better quality Chinese stuff out there. Try Aubirns.

but He already paid 2 times the normal amount for the same product normally sold for $9 shipped? Aubrins sells most of the exact same chinese stuff just rebranded at a 50-100% markup by them I have proven this with much of thier stuff including thier sensors which are sold for 1/3 thier price wired with the exact same wiring and connectors at alibaba and their rebranded $8 mager SSRs they sell for almost 3 times the price shipped.... You dont always get what you pay for. This thread is proof of that. That is an outdated old fashioned way of looking at things that middlemen distributors like auberins would LOVE everyone to believe. Its mostly all marketing BS now days. The only thing I would consider buying from Auberins myself are the the pids they sell since they seem to be made to only thier specs by someone else in china.
does the following look familiar?
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...TD-Sensor-PT100-Sensor/100309_1653111706.html

Here is the exact same product as sold by auberins...
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=189
You can even get the 316 stainless ones another seller/distributor here claims to make and sell exclusively
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...or-with-1-2-BSP-thread/100309_1653180771.html

Back on topic....

I bought 2 of these same volt/amp meters (for under $10 a piece shipped) and have had zero issues with them... ones been in use for a year and a half....
I would be more inclines to think the OP either got a defective product or possibly something else was amiss thats not yet been mentioned or discovered.

the volt amp meter is honestly a very useful tool for me. its even more useful if someone is controlling a boil with manual means such as an ssvr and a potentiometer.

 

[PlexVector]

The current is probably worth monitoring. May give you advance warning of a heater element going bad, but not guaranteed.

 

[augiedoggy]

The current is probably worth monitoring. May give you advance warning of a heater element going bad, but not guaranteed.

depending on how your system is wired it can also tell you if you have a sticking ssr or relay.

 

[PlexVector]

depending on how your system is wired it can also tell you if you have a sticking ssr or relay.

I don't have an electric system, other than a RIMS tube, but you got me thinking. A digital current meter probably bounces about when a PID approaches set point unless the meter has an integrating feature. An old style analog current meter would do this automatically and these days have a much greater cool factor!

 

[chewse]

Well, Amazon was really great about providing me a refund on the defective meter. So.....I bought another one. I haven't hooked it up yet but when I do, I'll double check that its wired correctly to ensure its not my f***up if it doesn't work or only operates for 3 hours like last time!

 

[augiedoggy]

I don't have an electric system, other than a RIMS tube, but you got me thinking. A digital current meter probably bounces about when a PID approaches set point unless the meter has an integrating feature. An old style analog current meter would do this automatically and these days have a much greater cool factor!

yes thats true to a point with pwm control but neither the voltage or amp meter would bounce around with an SSVR... instead as the control knob is turned up the amps draw would go up accordingly and hold at whatever setpoint the knob was at.. because the potentiometer knob with an ssvr is not very linear this readout is very useful for an indication of power output... The voltage meter is not as useful really.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

I have a hole cut in my control panel for the **** volt/amp meter. Yeah, not need for it other than bling. If I don't put another one in, I'll have to find something "cool" to put in its place.

The way I see it you have 2 simple choices - 1) leave the defective one in place or 2) get an engraved sing that says "BLING" made up to cover the hole.

With option 2, you still retain all the functionality of working meters. After all all high end heating equipment comes with volt and Amp meters installed, NOT.

 

[HDDSlinger]

I built a kal clone last spring. I used the same amp/volt meter, it has been working great for me. There is always an failure rate with electronics, most issues happen early in the life cycle. Since you already have the hole I would give another meter a shot hopefully you don't end up with bad luck twice. Below is the one I ordered. $10 and free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-AC-Digi...-1-/380752683639?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160

 

[JKoravos]

but He already paid 2 times the normal amount for the same product normally sold for $9 shipped? Aubrins sells most of the exact same chinese stuff just rebranded at a 50-100% markup by them I have proven this with much of thier stuff including thier sensors which are sold for 1/3 thier price wired with the exact same wiring and connectors at alibaba and their rebranded $8 mager SSRs they sell for almost 3 times the price shipped.... You dont always get what you pay for. This thread is proof of that. That is an outdated old fashioned way of looking at things that middlemen distributors like auberins would LOVE everyone to believe. Its mostly all marketing BS now days. The only thing I would consider buying from Auberins myself are the the pids they sell since they seem to be made to only thier specs by someone else in china.
does the following look familiar?
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...TD-Sensor-PT100-Sensor/100309_1653111706.html

Here is the exact same product as sold by auberins...
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=189
You can even get the 316 stainless ones another seller/distributor here claims to make and sell exclusively
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...or-with-1-2-BSP-thread/100309_1653180771.html

You gonna give Shanghai a call when your ebay panel meter doesn't work? Actually, more likely Gangzhou.

Auber gives you the benefit of dealing with someone in the US, who has experience in controls and probably knows whether what they're getting from China is garbage or not, that and some level of customer service. Heck, they may even test their products before selling them.

If you're running a niche business (like hobbyist controls) and you aren't marking products up 50-100% you are most certainly losing money.

 

[Gameface]

You gonna give Shanghai a call when your ebay panel meter doesn't work? Actually, more likely Gangzhou.

Auber gives you the benefit of dealing with someone in the US, who has experience in controls and probably knows whether what they're getting from China is garbage or not, that and some level of customer service. Heck, they may even test their products before selling them.

If you're running a niche business (like hobbyist controls) and you aren't marking products up 50-100% you are most certainly losing money.

But when you order direct from China you get FREE 6 week shipping!

 

[augiedoggy]

You gonna give Shanghai a call when your ebay panel meter doesn't work? Actually, more likely Gangzhou.

Auber gives you the benefit of dealing with someone in the US, who has experience in controls and probably knows whether what they're getting from China is garbage or not, that and some level of customer service. Heck, they may even test their products before selling them.

If you're running a niche business (like hobbyist controls) and you aren't marking products up 50-100% you are most certainly losing money.

if by some chance it was broken then I exchange it or get a refund... but as I mentioned before I have over a thousand ebay purchases and only 2 bad experiences...
Look at this way.... You would rather pay $50 upfront for product x from china by buying it from a middleman (who will still make you pay full price for a replacement if it breaks in 6 months) and I would rather pay $20-25 for the same product x direct from the place the middleman buys them for $10-15 in bulk before he doubles the cost OVER direct retail... many many more times than not I come out way ahead than if I had your way of thinking...
Its kind of like paying $20 for a "lifetime warranty" at harbor frieght for a $10 jigsaw... I would have to have 4 of them fail to come out ahead? at that cost why not just buy a milwakee saw?
If you have to mark up cheap chinese products 50 to 100% over the going online street price from most direct venders such as amazon,ebay or alibaba just to make any money then you are doing something wrong... You might want to consider doing something for the hobby your business depends on than just running a warehouse storage facility for someone elses products. many respectable retailers do just that... they work with manufacturers to bring NEW and EXCLUSIVE products to the market.... and even then they have to understand that by selling out and farming the work to china those products will soon be available for at least half of what they have been soaking customers for them .

 

[JKoravos]

if by some chance it was broken then I exchange it or get a refund... but as I mentioned before I have over a thousand ebay purchases and only 2 bad experiences...
Look at this way.... You would rather pay $50 upfront for product x from china by buying it from a middleman (who will still make you pay full price for a replacement if it breaks in 6 months) and I would rather pay $20-25 for the same product x direct from the place the middleman buys them for $10-15 in bulk before he doubles the cost OVER direct retail... many many more times than not I come out way ahead than if I had your way of thinking...
Its kind of like paying $20 for a "lifetime warranty" at harbor frieght for a $10 jigsaw... I would have to have 4 of them fail to come out ahead? at that cost why not just buy a milwakee saw?
If you have to mark up cheap chinese products 50 to 100% over the going online street price from most direct venders such as amazon,ebay or alibaba just to make any money then you are doing something wrong... You might want to consider doing something for the hobby your business depends on than just running a warehouse storage facility for someone elses products. many respectiable retailers do just that... they work with manufactuers to bring NEW and EXCLUSIVE products to the market.... and even then they have to understand that by selling out and farming the work to china those products will soon be avaliable for at least half of what they have been soaking customers for them .

You're welcome to do as you please, I'm glad it's worked out for you. I was simply explaining to you why it costs more to buy something from Auber. Many people prefer to pay extra to deal with a middle man who provides customer service, or some extra level of service.

100% is a very typical markup for niche and premium products.

 

[JKoravos]

But when you order direct from China you get FREE 6 week shipping!

What a deal!

 

[augiedoggy]

What a deal!

more like 3 to 7 business days...http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...or-with-1-2-BSP-thread/100309_1653084894.html
Sometimes the wait is long... but the $350.00 I saved by buying the same stuff auber sells direct was worth waiting 2 weeks for me (yes I priced the stuff out by each component)... it wasnt a necessity for me to have it in 3-5 days since brewing is a hobby for me and not a business and my opinion is not biased by my personal employment or business views. I understand that you guys spendt the extra money already and are going to do your part to convince yourself it was justified regardless. It also may contradict the way you yourself do business and treat others and this may help you sleep better at night I dont know and dont care.
To each his own but the whole point of this before you guys sidetracked the conversations to be about wait times and imaginary replacement warranties being worth paying twice as much, is that the products that auber sells are mostly all the same cheap chinese products only rebranded or not branded at all. Comments like the one trimdiver made about the product being junk because it was from amazon and didnt cost enough followed by a suggestion to buy the same cheap "junk" from auberins for twice the price plus shipping just doesnt make any sense.
Now if we were comparing a rex pid to an auberins one that would be a different story but even both of those use some of the same manufacturers for components like the case and such. the fact is there is functional differences between the two that dont exist with the meter. I cant even find a replacement for this product at auberins.

 

[augiedoggy]

I built a kal clone last spring. I used the same amp/volt meter, it has been working great for me. There is always an failure rate with electronics, most issues happen early in the life cycle. Since you already have the hole I would give another meter a shot hopefully you don't end up with bad luck twice. Below is the one I ordered. $10 and free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-AC-Digi...-1-/380752683639?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160

I used this exact meter on the panel I just built for my brother in law... It also works fine.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

If you have to mark up cheap chinese products 50 to 100% over the going online street price from most direct venders such as amazon,ebay or alibaba just to make any money then you are doing something wrong...

I promised myself to leave this alone but obviously I can't.
"You must be doing something wrong", seriously?? Not everyone has the buying power of Amazon.

 

[trimixdiver1]

I was just giving an option. I stay away from most of that lower end stuff. The RTD's I got were complete garbage. But 20 bucks for 10, I had to try.

 

[augiedoggy]

I was just giving an option. I stay away from most of that lower end stuff. The RTD's I got were complete garbage. But 20 bucks for 10, I had to try.

? Yeah thats kind of crazy cheap,
I have never found them that cheap on amazon or ebay. I have purchased about 6 of the $6 pt100 rtds and they work just fine, they are just missing the 1/2" NPT base and quick disconnects...
I have no problem with opinions Its just the fact that I have discovered that much of the generic stuff like ssrs,relay,switches,indicators,sensors and such that auberins sells is from the exact same source as the ones on amazon or ebay for half price.
For example, when aubrerins takes a Mager brand ssr and generic heat sink available on ebay for $11 with free shipping together and sells those exact same products separately for $30 with shipping I feel they are taking advantage of the common misconception that its somehow superior because they pay mager to change the color of the sticker and put auberins name on it? I feel they are taking advantage... If someone wants to buy it anyway for faster shipping thats fine but putting down others decisions to buy it from other more direct sources for much less is what bothers me. this is a hobby and everyone has different budgets and timelines they are willing to devote to it.

 

[augiedoggy]

I promised myself to leave this alone but obviously I can't.
"You must be doing something wrong", seriously?? Not everyone has the buying power of Amazon.

Please enlighten me as to what you mean by this?

My comment really had nothing to do with amazon... I was just commenting on the fact that if a business operator NEEDS to mark up above the 35% norm over cost to survive your business strategy and operation likely has other issues your trying to compensate for. Remember these distributors buy in bulk and pay less than the amazon or ebay prices for this stuff so when they sell it for over twice the prices there its really over 100% markup.
I dont have much respect for American companies that give the impression the products they sell are somehow superior when they are from the same suppliers in china the the only real difference is much higher price. When I see someone insinuating someone always needs to pay more for a product for it to be reliable or better quality this I feel the need for clarification, its just not always the case. Too many companies take advantage of this misconception based on yesterdays economy and business practices. As mentioned there are things that auber actually sells exclusively and may even engineer and those products are not what I am commenting on, The generic Chinese products they sell as thier own at twice the normal price is.
Bottom line is its worth being an educated consumer... dont make assumptions either way. Its just not that simple anymore.


And what prevents anyone from buying online? worst case scenerio someone has to ask a friend or go to the library and use a public pc to make online purchases... bottom line if you can be a member of this forum you can order things online. I make purchases for non computer savvy friends all the time.

 

[jeffmeh]

The appropriate price is what the market will bear, and a consentual transaction between buyer and seller is no one else's business. If one does not like the price, one is not forced to buy it. That is fine. So is someone who subjectively perceives the value as fair and makes the purchase.