Making cider like my grandparents had...

[DyingBreed]

Hi y'all!

I hope I've come to the right place. I'm trying to recreate something from my childhood.

When I was a kid, my grandfather had an apple orchard, which I helped him take care of. Every year, we would pick up the apples that fell from the tree, which we called "drops." We'd collect them up in bushel baskets and take them to Amish country to get them pressed. We'd then take the jugs full of the cider and put them in the pumphouse. In a relatively short period of time, the cider would become what we called "zippy." We'd bring them in at that point and refrigerate them. I tell you what, it was the best cider I've ever tasted. Zippy and tangy, but still very sweet. It even smelled fantastic.

I've tried to recreate it several times now, but I seem to keep screwing it up. its just never the same. Part of it I'm sure has to do with the fact that I'm using store bought cider since I now live in the city.

Any advice/suggestions?

 

[caseymac91]

What does the cider you made taste like, and what flavor is it lacking?

 

[tooldudetool]

I'm no cider expert, but I've certainly made a few batches that have turned out well. There are probably several reasons you can't recreate the "zippy" cider you remember. For one, the apple varieties that were grown on your grandfathers orchard are most likely quite different than the storebought juice blend you are buying. People used to grow cider apples for the sole purpose of making cider out of it, and blending multiple cider varieties adds loads to the depth of flavor. Also, your unpasteurized hand pressed cider was being spontaneously fermented from yeasts that were present on the apple skins themselves, which are excellent yeasts to make cider with. You didn't mention if you were pitching yeast into your store bought apple juice (which I hope you are!), or letting it eventually spontaneously ferment. Depending on whether you are buying "orchard" gallon jugs of cider, which are probably UV, or "cold" pasteurized (which is good), or if you are buying more processed cider, which may or may not have preservatives (which are bad), your batch could be fermenting by any number of random yeasts and bacteria. So the moral of the story is, if you want to make zippy cider like your grandfather did, you have to follow the same process. Go gather as many varieties of apples that you can from an old orchard, hand press the apples (many times cider presses can be rented), and let it ferment on its own for several weeks. Taking short cuts on the original process leads to the less than stellar results you've been experiencing. Plus there is something to be said for nostalgia as well... no matter how good you make it, it probably won't be quite as good as grandpa's stuff

 

[DyingBreed]

Thanks for the helpful advice! Unfortunately I couldn't find a local orchard, so I'll have to wait til I move next year to get good orchard cider. In the meantime, I have changed courses a bit.

I figured out that I was letting it ferment too long for what I wanted, and it was eating up all the natural sugar. Since it went that far, I decided to make hard cider instead of the slightly fermented stuff I'm used to. This is the first time I'm taking it all the way, so I have a question. Here are the steps I've taken:

-1 Gallon Musselman's Cider in a 1 gallon carboy with airlock and Whitelabs Cider yeast. Sat two weeks until no more bubbles formed.

-Racked into a second 1 gallon carboy, sat for four weeks until today.

-Racked into the original 1 gallon carboy (now clean) about 3/4 gallon left now.

-In 1/2 cup boiled water, added 1/8 cup brown sugar and 3 tablespoons xylitol. Added mix to the cider.

-Bottled in 6 flip-top clear bottles. Covered with towel to keep out light.

Did I do that right? It tasted a bit yeasty still, right before I bottled it.

and

Within minutes I could already see small bubbles coming up in the bottles. Should I be concerned about a bottle-bomb?

Thanks!

 

[snuesen]

The original cider you had bottled was likely finished. however, adding the brown sugar will give it more to work with unless you stabilize and preserve (sulfite and sorbate) prior to adding sugars. If feasible, keep the bottles in fridge from here on out till you drink them. If not, you should pop the top and hope you don't get a geyser.

 

[snuesen]

I dunno if I'd be worried about bombs in this case, beer bottles can handle significantly more pressure than a wine bottle. It's more a matter of carbonation a little or more sparkle than champagne

 

[MindenMan]

Did you pack the brown sugar, or shake it to level? There will be a big difference in the potential of carbonation in your bottles. The good thing is you can bleed the carbonation using the flip top bottles if necessary.

 

[DyingBreed]

I shook it to level. Hopefully just enough to make it fizzy.

I guess I was a little paranoid, because about an hour after my last post I checked again and there were no bubbles - and so it remains.

Here is a picture. Not sure it will be of any benefit to you, but I am a bit proud of my first batch.

 

[rocketsan]

Where did u get wood crate? Love it...

 

[Justdrumin]

According to northern brewer and brewers friend calculators...you will get 3.1 volumes of co2 with 1/8 cup of brown sugar. I'd say you should be fine. I don't think you'll have bombs at all. You may or may not like it at those volumes. If not...RDWHAHB, then put a little less in your next batch. Just my .02 cents.

Cheers!

 

[DyingBreed]

Where did u get wood crate? Love it...

I'm a carpenter, so I built it in about 10 minutes out of scrap. Got the idea from old Coke Crates.

 

[DyingBreed]

According to northern brewer and brewers friend calculators...you will get 3.1 volumes of co2 with 1/8 cup of brown sugar. I'd say you should be fine. I don't think you'll have bombs at all. You may or may not like it at those volumes. If not...RDWHAHB, then put a little less in your next batch. Just my .02 cents.

Cheers!

That's some good info! Thanks!

 

[MindenMan]

Hard cider is all about patience. I just now opened a bottle from June of this year, and frankly I am amazed. When I bottled it, I was hoping time would "fix" it, and it never seemed to. But now 4+ months later, I wished I would have let more age. This one was made with AJC, the batch that was made with fresh juice around the same time is even more scarce, and I will bet it is even better!

 

[rocketsan]

I ask the experts: isn't that a lot of air space in his bottles?

 

[DyingBreed]

I ask the experts: isn't that a lot of air space in his bottles?

Could it be? I didn't know that could be an issue. I was trying not to overfill it because I thought overfilling would make it more likely to explode.

 

[MindenMan]

I'm no expert, but "excess" head space, it's kind of hit and miss. Carbonation is much more controlled by priming sugar than head space.

 

[ChefRex]

Hi y'all!

I hope I've come to the right place. I'm trying to recreate something from my childhood.

When I was a kid, my grandfather had an apple orchard, which I helped him take care of. Every year, we would pick up the apples that fell from the tree, which we called "drops." We'd collect them up in bushel baskets and take them to Amish country to get them pressed. We'd then take the jugs full of the cider and put them in the pumphouse. In a relatively short period of time, the cider would become what we called "zippy." We'd bring them in at that point and refrigerate them. I tell you what, it was the best cider I've ever tasted. Zippy and tangy, but still very sweet. It even smelled fantastic.

I've tried to recreate it several times now, but I seem to keep screwing it up. its just never the same. Part of it I'm sure has to do with the fact that I'm using store bought cider since I now live in the city.

Any advice/suggestions?

You were much smaller then so the "zippy" effect (alcohol) did not need to be as strong as it does now, grampa was getting you drunk so he could get some rest.
Just kidding, great memories live on and sometimes not be recreated.
Enjoy life.

 

[DyingBreed]

Just tried the cider after two weeks in the bottle. I tried the one with the most head space, and it was only lightly carbonated. I'll be careful to leave less space next time.

It also tasted strongly of yeast. Almost unbearably strongly of yeast. I was very careful when siphoning not to get the junk in the bottom of the carboy, so I don't know why it tastes like that. Should I have left it in secondary for longer?

 

[Yooper]

Just tried the cider after two weeks in the bottle. I tried the one with the most head space, and it was only lightly carbonated. I'll be careful to leave less space next time.

It also tasted strongly of yeast. Almost unbearably strongly of yeast. I was very careful when siphoning not to get the junk in the bottom of the carboy, so I don't know why it tastes like that. Should I have left it in secondary for longer?

How long did you leave it? If it was totally clear, and without dropping more sediment, it was ready to bottle. Which yeast strain did you use? Some yeast strains are pretty neutral, but some (like bread yeast) are incredibly yeasty tasting.

 

[DyingBreed]

How long did you leave it? If it was totally clear, and without dropping more sediment, it was ready to bottle. Which yeast strain did you use? Some yeast strains are pretty neutral, but some (like bread yeast) are incredibly yeasty tasting.

It looks slightly hazy, but I didn't use pectic enzyme so I figured that was normal. I used White Labs English Cider Yeast.

 

[Randzor]

2 weeks after bottling, I wonder if the yeast hadn't fallen out of your cider yet. When you pick up a bottle does the stuff at the bottom float around, or is it 'stuck' to the bottle? if it floats, it probably needs to sit longer. I use champagne yeast, and it'll take a good 2 to 3 weeks after bottling to get the cake solid and the cider not yeasty. Great thread, and great stories, kinda sad us city slickers can't remake some of the farm authentic stuff.

 

[DyingBreed]

There is nothing on the bottom of the bottle that I can see.

Tell you what though, it usually takes about 4-5 beers to get me buzzed...and a single bottle of this stuff hit me hard. Methinks I need to buy a hydrometer...no idea cider got THAT hard.