Made Simple Invert Sugars. - Jeff Alworth's Method.

[Schlenkerla]

Interesting thread ( I'm from Belgium ) . I'm confused, could someone explain the difference between your inverted sugar ( sugar + citric acid + water + heat ) and candi syrup ??

Jacques

Googled this for you.

https://byo.com/article/sweetness-brewing-sugars-how-to-use-them/

Belgian candi sugar is sucrose that has been caramelized to some degree, depending on the color. Dark candi sugar will have more of a caramel taste than the amber variety. Aside from the caramel notes, it will behave exactly like table sugar.

Invert sugar syrups, such as Lyle’s Golden syrup, are made from sucrose that has been hydrolyzed to separate the glucose and fructose. This has two effects: first, it makes the sugar more syrupy and less likely to crystallize. Secondly, it makes it sweeter. Invert sugar syrup is like artificial honey without the characteristic honey flavors. Golden syrup type products tend to be a bit salty tasting due to the acid -base reactions during manufacture. Treacle is partially inverted molasses combined with other syrups. The flavor contributions from treacle can be strong, so it is best to use it in heavier bodied beers like English strong ales, porters, and sweet stout. One half cup per 5-gallon (19-L) batch is a recommended starting point.

 

[eimar]

Schlenkeria , thank you for the link. I'll try your recipe for producing the dark version and add it to my belgian dubbel .

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Interesting thread ( I'm from Belgium ) . I'm confused, could someone explain the difference between your inverted sugar ( sugar + citric acid + water + heat ) and candi syrup ??

As above - one of the fundamental differences is that invert is made from sugar cane and not beet, because of the off-flavours you get when heating beet sugar. Also invert is inverted (sucrose split into glucose/fructose) whereas candi is just caramelised.

As an aside, one of the Fullers brewers has mentioned on Twitter that Ragus only make #1 and #3 at the moment.

 

[eimar]

I already make my own candi syrup ( see the following thread : https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/20-lb-of-sugar-and-a-jar-of-yeast-nutrient.114837/ )

So it will be interesting to compare dark candi syrup ( using DAP ) and dark inverted sugar ( using citric acid ) .

 

[Schlenkerla]

As above - one of the fundamental differences is that invert is made from sugar cane and not beet, because of the off-flavours you get when heating beet sugar. Also invert is inverted (sucrose split into glucose/fructose) whereas candi is just caramelised.

As an aside, one of the Fullers brewers has mentioned on Twitter that Ragus only make #1 and #3 at the moment.

Thanks!

 

[eimar]

why is there a difference between cane and beet sugar, after all aren't they both 100% pure industrial refined sucrose ?

 

[Schlenkerla]

why is there a difference between cane and beet sugar, after all they aren't they both 100% pure industrial refined sucrose ?

It's had to do with off flavors from beets vs sugar cane. The beets are not as good the cane. It's the source itself.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

why is there a difference between cane and beet sugar, after all aren't they both 100% pure industrial refined sucrose ?

No - they're not using white "100% refined sucrose" as their starting material, it's brown with impurities in it, and the impurities in unrefined beet sugar go "turnipy" when cooked.

 

[rhys333]

I made some invert #3 today using this method and while I was researching I came across a commercially made brewers invert that lists the following ingredients on the container: sugar, acid, and baking soda. Interesting. So they must acidify to help inversion, then alkalize at some point with baking soda. I discovered that they do this to assist with caramelization. The following cooking website explains it in relation to honeycomb sugar treats:
How to Make Honeycomb (And the Science Behind Caramelization) - Food Crumbles

Question: has anyone tried this baking soda addition with homemade brewing invert?

I imagine the process would start off the same: heat your sugar solution with acid to 240F. Then once it is inverted, add baking soda and continue the process.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Also I have a question, when formulating recipes using homemade invert with the 1pound of sugar per pint of water method, what yield should I count on? I know commercial syrup is around 75%

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Light muscovado sugar #2 made with the oven method.
This is the second attempt, I think I heated too quick with excessive boiling and had too little citric acid the first time, resulting in a hard, crystaline mass rather than syrup. Cooling down now, the foam is from me probably pouring a bit too agressevily. Looking forward to trying this in a british strong/old ale I'm working on.
Will likely do a lighter #2 with refined cane sugar and #3 with demerara.

 

[hiphoppotamuss]

The recipe is easy and straight forward with only three ingredients;

- 1 pint of Water​

- 1 pound of Sugar​

- 1/4 Teaspoon of Citric Acid​

could one use lemon juice or cream of tartar in place of citric acid and if so how much?

 

[kevin58]

Also I have a question, when formulating recipes using homemade invert with the 1pound of sugar per pint of water method, what yield should I count on? I know commercial syrup is around 75%

I always get 1 pound of finished invert using these amounts.

 

[kevin58]

I made some invert #3 today using this method and while I was researching I came across a commercially made brewers invert that lists the following ingredients on the container: sugar, acid, and baking soda. Interesting. So they must acidify to help inversion, then alkalize at some point with baking soda. I discovered that they do this to assist with caramelization. The following cooking website explains it in relation to honeycomb sugar treats:
How to Make Honeycomb (And the Science Behind Caramelization) - Food Crumbles

Question: has anyone tried this baking soda addition with homemade brewing invert?

I imagine the process would start off the same: heat your sugar solution with acid to 240F. Then once it is inverted, add baking soda and continue the process.

A lot of the invert sugar produced goes to bakeries. I have never come across an invert recipe that was made for beer brewing that uses baking soda.

 

[rhys333]

A lot of the invert sugar produced goes to bakeries. I have never come across an invert recipe that was made for beer brewing that uses baking soda.

Becker's uses baking soda.

 

[Miraculix]

A lot of the invert sugar produced goes to bakeries. I have never come across an invert recipe that was made for beer brewing that uses baking soda.

Apparently, Ragus does neutralise the acid at the end.

 

[kevin58]

Becker's uses baking soda.

View attachment 838604

Beckers also crystalizes which real invert should not. I've tried it and it doesn't impart the same characteristics as what I've made following both Ron Pattinson and Jeff Allworth's methods.

 

[rhys333]

Beckers also crystalizes which real invert should not. I've tried it and it doesn't impart the same characteristics as what I've made following both Ron Pattinson and Jeff Allworth's methods.

I've tried that method myself, which is the same minus the baking soda neutralization, and I found that the tartness in the resulting invert sugar transfers to the beer. I can't say for sure that it wasn't due to the amount of acid I used, or other factors relating to brewing process. That said, it seems to me that an invert sugar of neutral(ish) pH isn't going to throw the flavor balance of my carefully designed beer out of whack. I've also noticed that baking soda shortens the cook time considerably. I have a photo somewhere showing how my #1 invert looks like #2, and #2 looks like #3.

 

[rhys333]

I managed to find an example. The two photos are of the same two samples, shown under different lighting conditions.

 

[Miraculix]

Beckers also crystalizes which real invert should not. I've tried it and it doesn't impart the same characteristics as what I've made following both Ron Pattinson and Jeff Allworth's methods.

Where did you get that idea from? Brewers invert is often sold as blocks in the UK.

 

[kevin58]

Where did you get that idea from? Brewers invert is often sold as blocks in the UK.

From the BYO article linked in an earlier post (#81) in this thread.

"Invert sugar syrups, such as Lyle’s Golden syrup, are made from sucrose that has been hydrolyzed to separate the glucose and fructose. This has two effects: first, it makes the sugar more syrupy and less likely to crystallize."

 

[Miraculix]

From the BYO article linked in an earlier post (#81) in this thread.

"Invert sugar syrups, such as Lyle’s Golden syrup, are made from sucrose that has been hydrolyzed to separate the glucose and fructose. This has two effects: first, it makes the sugar more syrupy and less likely to crystallize."

Doesn't mean that it doesn't crystallize. It's being seeded with some glucose crystals and then it crystallises and is sold in blocks.

 

[Deric]

could one use lemon juice or cream of tartar in place of citric acid and if so how much?

Yes.

 

[ba-brewer]

could one use lemon juice or cream of tartar in place of citric acid and if so how much?

wikipedia say 1000:1 sugar to acid by weight for citric acid or cream of tartar and 50:1 by weight for lemon juice

edit: also says for confectioners cream of tartar at 0.15–0.25% of the sugar's weight, neutralize with baking soda at 45% of the amount of cream of tartar.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

From the BYO article linked in an earlier post (#81) in this thread.

"Invert sugar syrups, such as Lyle’s Golden syrup, are made from sucrose that has been hydrolyzed to separate the glucose and fructose. This has two effects: first, it makes the sugar more syrupy and less likely to crystallize."

That's not a comment on the invertness, but on the syrup-ness. Invert syrups are a different thing to invert sugar - the clue is in the name.

Invert #1 looks like this (courtesy of Ed Wray)

 

[Miraculix]

wikipedia say 1000:1 by weight for citric acid or cream of tartar and 50:1 by weight for lemon juice

edit: also says for confectioners cream of tartar at 0.15–0.25% of the sugar's weight, neutralize with 45% of the amount of cream of tartar.

By weight of what?

Neutralize cream of tartar with cream of tartar?

 

[ba-brewer]

By weight of what?

Neutralize cream of tartar with cream of tartar?

weight of sugar
baking soda

edits to previous post in italics

 

[rhys333]

weight of sugar
baking soda

edits to previous post in italics

Since you bring this up, I'd like to know the recommended ratios for 88% lactic acid. That is, weight of sugar to volume of lactic acid to weight of baking soda.

 

[ba-brewer]

Since you bring this up, I'd like to know the recommended ratios for 88% lactic acid. That is, weight of sugar to volume of lactic acid to weight of baking soda.

Sorry, don't know that answer.

 

[rhys333]

Sorry, don't know that answer.

No worries. I ask because I have another thread going where this is an upcoming topic.

 

[DuncB]

Since you bring this up, I'd like to know the recommended ratios for 88% lactic acid. That is, weight of sugar to volume of lactic acid to weight of baking soda.

I believe a pH meter would help with this. Titrate your way to the answer.

 

[kevin58]

Doesn't mean that it doesn't crystallize. It's being seeded with some glucose crystals and then it crystallises and is sold in blocks.

That's not a comment on the invertness, but on the syrup-ness. Invert syrups are a different thing to invert sugar - the clue is in the name.

Invert #1 looks like this (courtesy of Ed Wray)
View attachment 838714

I wish we could get the real thing in the US. I've tried the Beckers brand (3 times) and much prefer the final results of my beer using the homemade invert in comparison.

 

[rhys333]

I believe a pH meter would help with this. Titrate your way to the answer.

How does a pH meter measure the amount of lactic acid required for inversion?

 

[Miraculix]

Since you bring this up, I'd like to know the recommended ratios for 88% lactic acid. That is, weight of sugar to volume of lactic acid to weight of baking soda.

The acid doesn't get used up during the process, it's just there to speed things up. The lower the ph, the faster the inversion process is done. Therefore, it's not really necessary to get the exact right amount of acid. The acid has to be strong enough to lower the ph into a beneficial area, and it must be enough so that it has an effect, that's it.

 

[DuncB]

As @Miraculix says acid just speeds up the process, more H+ ions less time to invert assuming heat a constant but more to neutralise after conversion.
The pH meter most useful to ensure enough bicarb added to neutralise the lower pH caused by the acid. If you wanted to be very precise.
I just add some bicarb wait for foaming from co2 production to finish add a bit more no CO2 means acid neutralised.

 

[rhys333]

As @Miraculix says acid just speeds up the process, more H+ ions less time to invert assuming heat a constant but more to neutralise after conversion.
The pH meter most useful to ensure enough bicarb added to neutralise the lower pH caused by the acid. If you wanted to be very precise.
I just add some bicarb wait for foaming from co2 production to finish add a bit more no CO2 means acid neutralised.

In the above examples (post #99), I used 1.5ml lactic acid for 1 lb of raw cane sugar (Indian jaggery), then neutralized it with 3g baking soda at the end. As you can see by the foam on the top, it continued to offgas CO2 after packaging. I recently used half of the #2 in a wheat saison, and while it was a good beer, I could detect the presence of baking soda. There was a foamy mouthfeel (almost like what you get from pop rocks) and the beer pH was higher than I liked. This tells me that somewhat less baking soda was needed.