I'm fixing up an old cider press, and there are a LOT of wild apples this year, Anyways, I only have four 6 gallon carboys and those are generally dedicated to beer (which they are now) and I guess it's possible we get upwards of 100 gallons of cider...I'm looking for something we could ferment this in? Something relatively affordable? Has anyone fermented cider on this scale that has any insight? Cheers!
Large fermentor for cider?
- Thread starter jmartie13
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chevalcider
Well-Known Member
I've seen some producers use this...problem is, I don't think they are cheap and they hold between 250-300 gallons. I've been mulling over my options as well. I have 6 glass carboys that aren't tied up at the moment but I'd like some more room for prolonged aging.
http://www.sunwestcontainer.com/product-images/ibc pick.jpg
I know that there are worries of oxidation in plastic (especially when longer times are considered) but Reverend Nat's Cider from Washington state ferments and ages in them but makes sure to keep the cider sulphited.
Years ago my dad got the inards of one of these from an uncle who worked maintenance at a hospital. It was around 50+ gallons and medical grade stainless. If I had it now...
http://www.westauction.com/archive_images/68995_9913046.JPG
http://www.sunwestcontainer.com/product-images/ibc pick.jpg
I know that there are worries of oxidation in plastic (especially when longer times are considered) but Reverend Nat's Cider from Washington state ferments and ages in them but makes sure to keep the cider sulphited.
Years ago my dad got the inards of one of these from an uncle who worked maintenance at a hospital. It was around 50+ gallons and medical grade stainless. If I had it now...
http://www.westauction.com/archive_images/68995_9913046.JPG
hudsoncider
Member
We fermented in the blue 55 gallon HDPE barrels from a local Biotech co. The barrels are used to contain raw materials for their process, however they are contained within a liner inside the barrel so never come into contact with the barrel.
Once cleaned out and sanitized I drilled a hole in the lid, threw in an airlock and brewed 50 gallon batches, at no cost.
My cost was FREE since I work at the biotech company and they usually have to just recycle the barrels.
If you are interested in using these and can't get hold of any I could bring some up in exchange for some apples (I live in central MA).
Let me know.
Once cleaned out and sanitized I drilled a hole in the lid, threw in an airlock and brewed 50 gallon batches, at no cost.
My cost was FREE since I work at the biotech company and they usually have to just recycle the barrels.
If you are interested in using these and can't get hold of any I could bring some up in exchange for some apples (I live in central MA).
Let me know.
OP
OP
jmartie13
Well-Known Member
I found those large 275 totes used on Craiglists for $125 (food grade). I was wondering about those.The ones with the metal cages around them. It's not something you could put in your basement I don't think, it would need to go in a barn or shop I suspect.
JonClayton
Well-Known Member
A lot of small scale commercial cider makers ferment in the IBC totes. There is no reason to fear them, other than making sure you have a plan in place to move and transfer them when full.
hudsoncider
Member
chevalcider
Well-Known Member
That's less than 50c a gallon! Depending on where you go glass carboys might run $1.50 to $2.
I keep hoping to find a free IBC for water storage for garden watering but the ones I can get out here previously contained Monsanto's RoundUp.
I used to have a source for the 55 gallon blue barrels but the cheese factory closed.
I have a local suplier of 55 gallon barrels whom sells them cheaply (i think 30 bux or less)
They are not stainless but they are called "food grade"
the insides are painted blue as is the outside.
The ones i've seen held pineapples in them per the stickers on their lids.
I however am not real sure if you would want to do a primary fermentation next to paint..As a previous poster mentioned, you can get a barrel liner so that your cider never actually contacts the barrel.
They also sell those caged pallet sized cubes for $35 i think....
Shipping would have to be pricey though.
They are not stainless but they are called "food grade"
the insides are painted blue as is the outside.
The ones i've seen held pineapples in them per the stickers on their lids.
I however am not real sure if you would want to do a primary fermentation next to paint..As a previous poster mentioned, you can get a barrel liner so that your cider never actually contacts the barrel.
They also sell those caged pallet sized cubes for $35 i think....
Shipping would have to be pricey though.
Last edited:
WI_Wino
Well-Known Member
Brute garbage cans are food grade. I use a 20 gallon one for wine and large batches of beer. I move to carboys for secondary and aging.
Home Depot link
Home Depot link
chevalcider
Well-Known Member
http://www.mec.ca/product/5036-414/recreational-barrel-works-plastic-barrel/?q=
A few of these would be ideal if it weren't for the $60 price tag.
A few of these would be ideal if it weren't for the $60 price tag.
gregbathurst
Well-Known Member
I use 220Litre plastic barrels which used to have nitric acid in them, the best type are the ones with the 2 inch opening, the ones that the whole top comes off are harder to keep air out. Look on craiglist.
chevalcider
Well-Known Member
This thread has got my mind running...I searched some of the threads on the main brewing site and I've come up with some ideas. 1) olive/pickle barrels - Italian delis/restaurants import olives and pickles in them. I don't live in the big city so I don't know where to find them. 2) 55 gallon drums with food/pharmaceutical liners - supposedly a good oxygen barrier and I was thinking if the neck was tied with a bit of a blow out tube coming out of it, headspace could nearly be eliminated entirely.
You are going to put a lot of work into pressing 100 gallons of cider, thats like 40-50 bushels of apples depending on how juicy your apples are and how effective your crushing and pressing are. Small craft places use the big blue barrels and can fit an airlock into the smaller port, they do make barrel sized airlocks sold online by some of the winemaking places. Would you be better off with 2 x 50 gall or 3 or 4 x 30 gal barrels? Having some 30s would give you room to reduce headspace when you rack. Also might be a good time to pick up some 6 gal better bottles so you can be flexible when racking and dont get stuck with a lot of headspace. What kinds of apples are you guys going to get ahold of? Goodluck, WVMJ
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
I'd hunt on craigslist for the 55 gallon food grade barrels and also used glass carboys. That's just the easiest to find, cheapest and most portable option. I have seen the food grade barrels in a smaller 30 gallon size, but they're harder to find.
Every area has a dialysis center nearby, they use a saline solution that comes in the 55 gallon food grade drums or check with any food processing facility like cheese or bread plants.
The 55 gallon barrels come in handy around the farm and garden; for water storage, I fill mine up with spring water and when the spring gets low at the end of the summer I have extra water for the garden.
Every area has a dialysis center nearby, they use a saline solution that comes in the 55 gallon food grade drums or check with any food processing facility like cheese or bread plants.
The 55 gallon barrels come in handy around the farm and garden; for water storage, I fill mine up with spring water and when the spring gets low at the end of the summer I have extra water for the garden.
gratus fermentatio
Well-Known Member
Check with your LHBS & see if they'll sell you some empty (used) LME barrels. They're only 15 gallons each, but I used to get them for $10 each. You'll likely have to wash out the residual LME, but some hot, soapy water does a quick job on 'em. You might also get those blue 30 gallon water barrels, but they're a bit more expensive.
Regards, GF.
Regards, GF.
OP
OP
jmartie13
Well-Known Member
http://burlington.craigslist.org/for/5107297054.html
I was looking at these as a possibility. $10 seems like a good price. Or something similar. I was thinking about reducing head space, which is why I don't want to go with those 275 gallon totes.
I don't actually know any of the varieties. They are leftover from old homesteads I presume. We call them "wild apples", but a lot of them were planted for making cider back in the day I'm sure. They vary in size from small crab apples to large softball sized apples. Some sweet, some tart, some great for pies, others you can hardly take one bite of! Which, naturally made me think of cider. We started to clear around some and prune others that were salvageable three years ago. I can think of 20 trees of the top of my head that are full of apples. More on neighboring land I could probably get a hold of! Should be a good fall. Cheers!
I was looking at these as a possibility. $10 seems like a good price. Or something similar. I was thinking about reducing head space, which is why I don't want to go with those 275 gallon totes.
I don't actually know any of the varieties. They are leftover from old homesteads I presume. We call them "wild apples", but a lot of them were planted for making cider back in the day I'm sure. They vary in size from small crab apples to large softball sized apples. Some sweet, some tart, some great for pies, others you can hardly take one bite of! Which, naturally made me think of cider. We started to clear around some and prune others that were salvageable three years ago. I can think of 20 trees of the top of my head that are full of apples. More on neighboring land I could probably get a hold of! Should be a good fall. Cheers!
gratus fermentatio
Well-Known Member
gregbathurst
Well-Known Member
They look like good barrels, you should buy a few for racking etc. Remember that HDPE is oxygen permeable so you have to keep them absolutely full all the time. If there is headspace oxygen will get in and nasty things will start to grow, it can happen very quickly. The maximum storage time for barrels like this is 6 months, after that the cider will start to oxidise.
You will need to bottle the cider all at once so you will need a lot of bottles. When you are making proper craft cider the logistics get more difficult because you have to do a big batch every year, unlike beer or cider from supermarket juice which is possible in small batches through the year. For the barrel you will need about 300 big bottles, what we in Australia call long-necks. I bought one big lot of bottles new and re-use them every year, I think it is worth the investment to have a standard size bottle, much easier to store. I use plastic screw caps but crown seals are just as good, I reuse the caps. Make sure you never store the bottles dirty. You can't use kegs with that much cider, it would get too expensive. I use 16gal plastic barrels for bottling, you can bulk prime with sugar for carbonation. Emptying is easier if you install a tap in the bottom of the barrel.
You will need to bottle the cider all at once so you will need a lot of bottles. When you are making proper craft cider the logistics get more difficult because you have to do a big batch every year, unlike beer or cider from supermarket juice which is possible in small batches through the year. For the barrel you will need about 300 big bottles, what we in Australia call long-necks. I bought one big lot of bottles new and re-use them every year, I think it is worth the investment to have a standard size bottle, much easier to store. I use plastic screw caps but crown seals are just as good, I reuse the caps. Make sure you never store the bottles dirty. You can't use kegs with that much cider, it would get too expensive. I use 16gal plastic barrels for bottling, you can bulk prime with sugar for carbonation. Emptying is easier if you install a tap in the bottom of the barrel.
You guys are going to have to take some pictures and share some scions, great that you found such a variety of established trees. The ones you can barely take a bite off, is that due to the tannins or acid in them? Is everything chewed up by disease or do they look pretty good? You may want to consider sulfiting if its not already in your plans to knock down the wild bugs. If you guys found an old homestead with an orchard you can really get into it, looking up the land plats to see when it was established, try to figure out what kind of apples you might have, up in your neck of the woods arent there apple tasting events where you can take some of your apples and have the locals take a guess at what you got, you never know, you might have one that one the wanted list and have a hand at bringing it back. WVMJ
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jmartie13
Well-Known Member
Sulfiting is in the game plan. I guess the grinder on this old cider press use to be run by a belt attached to the PTO of a tractor? It looks dangerous! It has a hand attachment too.
I feel like the majority of these trees are "non-cultivated" apples, Wild apples. Some have really good flavor though. There are some trees that are obviously cultivated varieties. Not very many. There's one crab apple I'm interested in because I've been told it's over 200 years old, and it's starting to die. I'm thinking of trying to get some scions from it next year before it's completely gone. It's the tallest apple tree I've ever seen. The crab apples from this tree are super acidic too, took a bite of one yesterday and it was like biting into a lemon. There are some "wild" apples that are just not palatable, very mealy, no flavor, very hard. I guess that's what I mean by "can't take one bite of".
I have heard of apple tastings, pretty cool idea. We have a couple trees I'm definitely curious about. I'll look into that. Not much disease yet, though I do expect it on a couple trees I've seen it in years past. They're the ones with the biggest apples too.
I feel like the majority of these trees are "non-cultivated" apples, Wild apples. Some have really good flavor though. There are some trees that are obviously cultivated varieties. Not very many. There's one crab apple I'm interested in because I've been told it's over 200 years old, and it's starting to die. I'm thinking of trying to get some scions from it next year before it's completely gone. It's the tallest apple tree I've ever seen. The crab apples from this tree are super acidic too, took a bite of one yesterday and it was like biting into a lemon. There are some "wild" apples that are just not palatable, very mealy, no flavor, very hard. I guess that's what I mean by "can't take one bite of".
I have heard of apple tastings, pretty cool idea. We have a couple trees I'm definitely curious about. I'll look into that. Not much disease yet, though I do expect it on a couple trees I've seen it in years past. They're the ones with the biggest apples too.
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