Lallemand New England 11g yeast

[thehaze]

Just spotted the new* New England dry yeast from Lallemand here:

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/lallemand-new-england-11g-beer-yeast/

Will surely, slowly show on other webshops as well.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I wonder if they are merely repackaging it?

 

[thehaze]

No. It's the real deal: https://www.facebook.com/TheMaltMiller/

I also heard from https://www.hopsishop.com/ that these packages were on the way a few weeks back.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Nice! I questioned whether it was merely repackaging because I have been emailing them in regard to this yeast and not more than a week ago they told me there was no release date that they could announce, but it (an announcement) should be expected before summer.

 

[mediant]

New England TDS has been updated and now includes 11g packaging. Cell count remained low though, so at least two 11g packages for a typical 5G batch would be needed.

 

[thehaze]

Yeah, that's a big bummer. The yeast cell count is very low thus making it pricey. I assume 1 pack can be enough for 5 gal at 1.035-1.040 and lower. Some testing needs to be done.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah, that's a big bummer. The yeast cell count is very low thus making it pricey. I assume 1 pack can be enough for 5 gal at 1.035-1.040 and lower. Some testing needs to be done.

You can always make a starter to ramp up cell count.

[EDIT] That said, the package apparently only contains 11 billion cells (1 billion 'living' cells per gram). Could that be a 'typo' perhaps, wouldn't be the first one coming from them.

Anyway if it's indeed correct, it will take a 2-step starter, 0.5 liters followed by 1 liter. May as well use 2 liters in the 2nd step, for twice the amount.

 

[brownni5]

You can always make a starter to ramp up cell count.

[EDIT] That said, the package apparently only contains 11 billion cells (1 billion 'living' cells per gram). Could that be a 'typo' perhaps, wouldn't be the first one coming from them.

Anyway if it's indeed correct, it will take a 2-step starter, 0.5 liters followed by 1 liter. May as well use 2 liters in the 2nd step, for twice the amount.

Thereby negating the convenience of dried yeast!

 

[FatDragon]

Thereby negating the convenience of dried yeast!

I don't have any intention of brewing NEIPAs anytime soon, but living in China, the more dried yeast strains that are out there, the better. Liquid is essentially not available here in spite of the growing homebrew market, but we can get most dry strains from Lallemand, Fermentis, MJ, and Red Star, so having more dry options is always going to be a good thing by me.

 

[MaxStout]

You can always make a starter to ramp up cell count.

[EDIT] That said, the package apparently only contains 11 billion cells (1 billion 'living' cells per gram). Could that be a 'typo' perhaps, wouldn't be the first one coming from them.

Anyway if it's indeed correct, it will take a 2-step starter, 0.5 liters followed by 1 liter. May as well use 2 liters in the 2nd step, for twice the amount.

Lallemand's site states 1 x 10^9 per gram in the specs, thus 11B per packet. If that's not a typo, that's an order of magnitude below what is typical for dry. Yeah, I'm gonna buy 10 packets for a brew. Should be something like hundred billion cells per packet. By contrast, their CBC-1 is 1 x 10^10 per gram.

 

[mediant]

Anyway if it's indeed correct, it will take a 2-step starter, 0.5 liters followed by 1 liter. May as well use 2 liters in the 2nd step, for twice the amount.

Note that suggested pitch rate is five times lower too: "100g/hL to achieve a minimum of 1 million viable cells/mL" vs. "50 - 100g/hL to achieve a minimum of 2.5 - 5 million cells/mL" for other ale yeast. I suppose this is to stimulate the ester synthesis.

 

[thehaze]

I too hope the cell count is not as low as suggested. The yeast would fit other styles of beer, and not only NEIPAs.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Lallemand's site states 1 x 10^9 per gram in the specs, thus 11B per packet. If that's not a typo, that's an order of magnitude below what is typical for dry. Yeah, I'm gonna buy 10 packets for a brew. Should be something like hundred billion cells per packet. By contrast, their CBC-1 is 1 x 10^10 per gram.

It's a minimum - the equivalent for most of their beer yeasts is quoted at 6 billion per gram minimum, but 20-25 billion/g is typical in the real world.

 

[MaxStout]

It's a minimum - the equivalent for most of their beer yeasts is quoted at 6 billion per gram minimum, but 20-25 billion/g is typical in the real world.

So, Lallemand's stated count for that strain is 1/6 of the minimum. That has to be a typo.

 

[lump42]

It's a guaranteed minimum not an actual cell count. Officially they won't throw out a number of cells per gram so they can account for manufacturing variances and natural viability loss at the expiration date.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

So, Lallemand's stated count for that strain is 1/6 of the minimum. That has to be a typo.

It's not a typo, what you describe as "Lallemand's stated count" is a cover-their-arse minimum, just like the 6bn/g figure is for normal strains.

So for most of their beer yeasts, they quote a minimum of 6bn/g, although in reality you typically get 20-25bn/g
For the New England, they quote a minimum of 1bn/g, although in reality you typically get ????bn/g

Should be easy enough for someone to do some viability tests on real-world packets.

 

[isomerization]

Could it be that this strain requires under pitching to get the desired water profile? Thus the lower than normal amount?

I’d also like to point out that the whole premise of cell counts is ridiculous. Different strains will absolutely have different yeast cell volumes (ie cells/gram is not universal).

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Different strains will absolutely have different yeast cell volumes (ie cells/gram is not universal).

Sure, but a 6-fold difference compared to other cerevisiae?

In any case, Lallemand have admitted that they've had real problems with viability with this strain - they wouldn't have persisted with it if there hadn't been such a commercial demand for it.

 

[isomerization]

Sure, but a 6-fold difference compared to other cerevisiae?

In any case, Lallemand have admitted that they've had real problems with viability with this strain - they wouldn't have persisted with it if there hadn't been such a commercial demand for it.

Don’t forget volume is cubic, so yeah I don’t think that’s out of the question.

I will try to find some evidence haha

Edit: best i could come up with was this thread that references a talk that Omega yeast labs gives regarding differences in cell size.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=32084.0

 

[mediant]

If anyone outside of EU is looking for an opportunity to buy - https://shop.humle.se/en/yeast/ale-yeast/dried/new-england-lallemand-11-g
FYI, they also sell the new Kölsch yeast - https://shop.humle.se/en/yeast/ale-yeast/dried/koln-lallemand-11-g
Cell count and pitch rate are on par with New England, the description again talks about bio-transformation.

 

[thehaze]

mediant I didn't even know about the new Kolsch yeast. That sounds nice. Wondering if it's close to K-97 or is it more " Kolschey ".

 

[mediant]

Neither did I until today, as it only appears in the catalog - until it hit the shelves. Judging solely from the descriptions one may assume that K-97 is more neutral - akin WY1007, whereas Koln might express more fruity esters similar to WY2565.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I'm excited by this new Lallemand Kolsch yeast.

 

[dmtaylor]

Neither did I until today, as it only appears in the catalog - until it hit the shelves. Judging solely from the descriptions one may assume that K-97 is more neutral - akin WY1007, whereas Koln might express more fruity esters similar to WY2565.

Hmm. The yeast manufacturers all copy each other. I'll bet this is finally Lallemand's version of Fermentis K-97. Less likely is that it is a completely new strain but that of course is possible.

I'll have to use a tad more sleuthing to try to figure out whether the new NEIPA yeast has any "equivalent".

 

[Big Monk]

Hmm. The yeast manufacturers all copy each other. I'll bet this is finally Lallemand's version of Fermentis K-97. Less likely is that it is a completely new strain but that of course is possible.

I'll have to use a tad more sleuthing to try to figure out whether the new NEIPA yeast has any "equivalent".

I don't think this yeast is new. Just new packaging. This Lalbrew New England yeast has been around for years.

 

[Big Monk]

I’d also like to point out that the whole premise of cell counts is ridiculous. Different strains will absolutely have different yeast cell volumes (ie cells/gram is not universal).

^^^
This.

No disrespect to anyone who puts themselves out there and spreads knowledge to the community but the basis for the myth of 20B cells/g, as far as i'm concerned comes from 2 places:

1.) The notes from the mrmalty.com yeast calculator. Jamil provides zero evidence for this claim;

2.) Sean Terrill's yeast cell counts. No offense to Sean, who is a very nice person (and helpful at that), but he has a very small data set and I know from experience that it's very easy to overestimate when doing a cell count. Differentiating between dead cells and live cells can be tricky and depending on the method you use you can have large differences.

I've spoken on a number of occasions with the R&D folks and engineers from Lallemand (specifically concerning the Abbaye strain) and 10B cells/g seems to be the general number to go with for fresh dry yeast. That can vary down to 7B dells/g and up to 11B cells/g depending on the strain.

It should be noted, however, that their dry wine yeasts do have up to 20B cells/g due to the smaller cell size of the wine strains.

 

[dmtaylor]

I don't think this yeast is new. Just new packaging. This Lalbrew New England yeast has been around for years.

View attachment 628978

New to homebrewers. Only available to the big guys previously, or that is my understanding.

 

[Big Monk]

New to homebrewers. Only available to the big guys previously, or that is my understanding.

I've used it a few times over the last 2 years. My hole in the wall shop has had it since 2017.

 

[dmtaylor]

I've used it a few times over the last 2 years. My hole in the wall shop has had it since 2017.

Okay.

The first part of my response above was actually referring to the new Koln yeast, which I'm pretty sure is brand new.

 

[Big Monk]

Okay.

The first part of my response above was actually referring to the new Koln yeast, which I'm pretty sure is brand new.

That I don't dispute. That seems like a new one.

 

[thehaze]

The Koln yeast is new, the New England one has been around for some while, though only available in 500 gr packs. Some shop in the UK or Ireland has been repackaging this in small 25 gr packs, but that was not something that came directly from Lallemand. It was a shop-only decision. Now it has been made available in small 11 gr homebrewer packages, which means it will most surely appear in different shops around the world. The opinions around this yeast are somewhat split, with many saying it's not really as good as the liquid one, but at this point, any new additions to the dry yeast catalogue are welcomed.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Hmm. The yeast manufacturers all copy each other. I'll bet this is finally Lallemand's version of Fermentis K-97. Less likely is that it is a completely new strain but that of course is possible.

They may rhyme but they don't copy directly - don't forget that Lallemand has no Chico, but pitch BRY-97 as an alternative. So it wouldn't surprise me if say it was closer to 1007/WLP003 rather than WLP036.

I'll have to use a tad more sleuthing to try to figure out whether the new NEIPA yeast has any "equivalent".

It's a derivative of the Conan family.

I guess it's a bit of a tradeoff between the contribution of the yeast and the dried yeast meaning that you don't need to oxygenate as much. Cloudwater have been using it quite a bit lately - one of those beers rated 4.13 on Untappd, and a non-exhaustive search found another rated 4.23 on Untappd, so not too shabby. (not that Untappd ratings count for too much...)

 

[Big Monk]

The Koln yeast is new, the New England one has been around for some while, though only available in 500 gr packs. Some shop in the UK or Ireland has been repackaging this in small 25 gr packs, but that was not something that came directly from Lallemand. It was a shop-only decision. Now it has been made available in small 11 gr homebrewer packages, which means it will most surely appear in different shops around the world. The opinions around this yeast are somewhat split, with many saying it's not really as good as the liquid one, but at this point, any new additions to the dry yeast catalogue are welcomed.

My shop has had it in 11g packets directly from Lallemand for almost 2 years.

Maybe only vendors could get it in those small packages.

 

[thehaze]

My shop has had it in 11g packets directly from Lallemand for almost 2 years.

Maybe only vendors could get it in those small packages.

Most likely. I was not able to find any in Europe, in any of the shops I usually shopped.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I asked Lallemand for 11 g packets about 3-4 months ago via email, and they told me I would have to purchase 500 g.

 

[Big Monk]

I asked Lallemand for 11 g packets about 3-4 months ago via email, and they told me I would have to purchase 500 g.

Interesting.

I've used it 2-3 times over the last couple years. I like it. I like BRY-97 as well.

 

[Big Monk]

As a general aside:

Lallemand is wonderful to deal with. I've been in contact with their technical people a number of times and they are prompt and really come back with very specific technical information when queried.

 

[Frusty]

@Big Monk can you give more detail on this? The reddit thread is really down on this strain, and I'm curious how your actual brews turned out. Were they juicy and NEIPA-like at all?

(I know this is an old thread, but really curious as my local place carries it and I am a huge fan of Trillium, Treehouse, etc.)

 

[Frusty]

I'll add that I've got a batch of graff going with this right now. It was a slow start, but there are obv a lot of available sugars there and it's chugging along respectably 18 hours in.

 

[moreb33rplz]

I've used this and the Gigayeast Vermont, which I think is the same strain, and liked the dry very much. My notes for the batch mention pineapple. I used one packet into 2.5 gallons of wort, no rehydration.