Lagering: How long, and at what temperature?

[Silver_Is_Money]

What is the typical number of days that you lager, and what temperature do you shoot for?

Is two full weeks at 34 degrees F. sufficient lagering for a Pilsner?

 

[BeardedBrews]

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I run straight from primary (cold crash) into the keg and carbonate. With that approach I find that the character of the beer improves the first 2-4 weeks. If I can I'll always make a double batch when using lager yeast so that I can drink on the first keg before it's "ready" knowing there's a second one in the back that will be even better.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Good info, but I don't believe that the process of "lagering" and the process of "fermentation" are synonyms. To me lagering is a period of cold storage post fermentation. The root of the word lager itself means to store or warehouse.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Silver, haven't read him in a long time (and I'm WAY overdue - need to pull him down from the shelf and put him top of the bedside stack), but have you taken a look at Noonan?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Early on, lagering (meaning for the purposes of this thread cold storage post fermentation) was done in caves at roughly 45 - 50 degrees F. for many months on end. One thing that I'm particularly interested in is if any conclusive studies have been done showing that storage at far colder temperatures than the typical cave exhibits will accelerate the achievement of the benefits of the process, such that it can be dramatically shortened in duration, while still achieving most if not all of the benefits.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Silver, haven't read him in a long time (and I'm WAY overdue - need to pull him down from the shelf and put him top of the bedside stack), but have you taken a look at Noonan?

Are you referring to the book "Brewing Lager Beer"? I have not read it. I need to add it to my Amazon wish list for sure.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Good info, but I don't believe that the process of "lagering" and the process of "fermentation" are synonyms. To me lagering is a period of cold storage post fermentation. The root of the word lager itself means to store or warehouse.

Fair point, edited for clarity.

I completely omit a secondary lager step, instead opting to age, carbonate, and condition all in one extended step, all at serving temperature of 38f.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I completely omit a secondary lager step, instead opting to age, carbonate, and condition all in one extended step, all at serving temperature of 38f.

How long do you store at 38 degrees prior to serving? Do you notice improvement with age?

 

[BeardedBrews]

Such that it can be dramatically shortened in duration, while still achieving most if not all of the benefits.

That one is a bit easier. I submitted a 19-day old Marzen in the 2016 NHC which scored a 32.5. The notes suggested the ferment was fine but the recipe could be improved.

Safale 34/70: 8 days at 58f, 3 days at 70f, 4 days at 33f (gelatin fining), carbonated for 24 hours and then rested at serving pressure 38f for 3 days.

 

[BeardedBrews]

How long do you store at 38 degrees prior to serving? Do you notice improvement with age?

I usually do a 24 hour carbonation at 30psi, and then give a day or two to "settle out". At that point the beer is generally drinkable, but I think it improves over the first couple weeks. I think 1 week is the sweet spot for me, after which I have a hard time spotting the improvement.

 

[CRZ]

I do the same as BeardedBrews.

The monks would've needed longer times for their beer to clear as their caves weren't as cold. Also the yeast used now is better at falling out.

Any alcohol gets better with age as the alcohol get less noticeable bringing out the flavor more.

 

[schematix]

No need to dwell on how it was done in antiquity. Modern equipment and techniques are vastly improved compared to those of the past. It might have worked in the past, but it's because there wasn't a better option!

I have been making lagers for almost as long as i have been making beer, and the best method i've come across is:
-Pitch a lot of yeast (2-3x what you would for an ale)
-Ferment at 48-50F.
-Hold it until you are within 2-4 gravity points of final gravity (verified by fast ferment test)
-Rack to purged serving keg. Seal and monitor pressure, or attach spund valve.
-Continue to hold at 48F until FG is reached, OR alternatively start lowering temperature by about 2F per day until you reach 30F.
-Keep at 30F for about 2 weeks.
-Seems to improve for up to 4weeks depending upon strength and color, but it'll plateau by then.

If you really want to drink something fast, your best bet is to make a 1.048 pale beer and shave a few days off fermentation by increasing the temp to the low 50s (52-54) and continue with the steps above. But when you rack you'll want to start your ramp down right away, taking 4-5 days to get there. By that point you'll be at FG, fully carbonated, and will just want to wait a week for the lager flavors to develop. It's not as good as the slightly longer method, but it's definitely possible to get a lager from grain to glass in 3 weeks.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Since more than half of every batch I brew is given away to family and friends, I bottle my batches. Because of this I more specifically need to know an effective lagering (cold storage) time pre-bottling.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Are you referring to the book "Brewing Lager Beer"? I have not read it. I need to add it to my Amazon wish list for sure.

Yep, I loved it. I used to decoct my lagers. Ask me about "Hellandback Bock." A light-lager. 2 a.m., something like that. -10F outside. Lauter screen dislodged, couldn't figure out why I couldn't get a clear vorlauf. And I was cold.

Great book and I'm serious, I'm starting back on it.

Hope this helps. Basically, if it's not a dextrinous lager and you've gone below 1/3 OG at racking into secondary, you would continue secondary/lagering at about one week for every 2 P; so if your OP was 10P, you'd do a program of 5 weeks secondary and lagering. If it's a little more dextrinous, and you find you're finishing out primary higher, you'd do a secondary/lagering of 7-12 days per every 2P; in the 10P case, 35-60 days.

I know at this point it's a bit frustrating because I (he) combines secondary and lagering. I know in the book he goes into each phase really well, I just haven't read it in a long time and I just wanted to give you one small section, which I just read. He does talk about dropping to 33-36 after secondary, or, if you crash cool to 30-33, this can reduce your lagering time.

So, not sure how helpful this is but I have a lot of respect for him. In fact, and this isn't the first time since coming back, but I brewed almost as many lagers as I did ales and loved the process, and loved the beer. I had Munich dark and lights, Vienna/Marzen/Oktoberfests, and some bocks of various strengths. You've inspired me, seriously, Silver, to get into lagers again as well. And Pilsner, a great Pilsner, is pretty high on that list.

Anyway, hope some of this helps.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Being I'm on a filter kick lately wouldn't lagers be the prime candidate for filtering after fermentation is complete ?Everybody wants a crystal clear lager. Seems logical
Do your temp ups and downs
Filter while transferring to a keg carb and see where your at flavor wise

 

[mj1angier]

Our beer club had our monthly meeting tonight at a lager only brewery (Mason Jar in Fuqua-Varina, NC)

Brew master said they pitch at 50-55 deg and leave there a week then rise to 60 for 2 days. They lager at 32 deg for 4-5 weeks.

Their beers are good, but not sure I could keep stuff lagering that long, lol

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Our beer club had our monthly meeting tonight at a lager only brewery (Mason Jar in Fuqua-Varina, NC)

Brew master said they pitch at 50-55 deg and leave there a week then rise to 60 for 2 days. They lager at 32 deg for 4-5 weeks.

Their beers are good, but not sure I could keep stuff lagering that long, lol

I agree! It will be painful for me to lager beyond 2 - 3 weeks, since I really want to get this bottled up and carbonated so I can give it a try.

My recipe:

10 lbs. Avangard Pilsner
1 lb. Briess Vienna
8 oz. Weyermann Melanoidin
6 oz. Swaen Sauer Malt (acidulated malt)

Water Profile (from RO + added minerals):
Ca = 38 ppm
Mg = 0 ppm
Na = 17 ppm
Cl = 79 ppm
SO4 = 19 ppm
Alkalinity = 0 ppm

Strike Water = 5 gal
Batch Sparge Water = 3.7 gal

Mash 60 min. : Start temp 150.4 Deg F., End temp 146.8 deg. F (single infusion)

Boil volume = 7.5 gal
Boil = 60 min
6.1 gal. to fermenter
OG = 1.053
FG = 1.010
Yeast: Fermentis W-34/70, 1 package, rehydrated
Fermentation: Pitch at 64 degrees, 54 degrees for 6 days, 64 degrees for 11 days, and currently at 34 degrees (for 9 days so far)

Hops:
1/2 oz Magnum, 60 min, 12.4% AA
1 oz Sterling, 15 min, 8.4% AA
1 oz. Saaz, 5 min, 3.0% AA

 

[BeardedBrews]

I am skeptical that lagering pre-packaging is any different than lagering post-packaging. There are still active yeast in the packaged product that should be effective at cleaning up byproducts.

You could rack a gallon of your current batch into a bottling bucket and bottle those, then do the rest after 2-3 more weeks, and see if you can taste a difference.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I am skeptical that lagering pre-packaging is any different than lagering post-packaging. There are still active yeast in the packaged product that should be effective at cleaning up byproducts.

You could rack a gallon of your current batch into a bottling bucket and bottle those, then do the rest after 2-3 more weeks, and see if you can taste a difference.

You may well be correct. I wonder if anyone has actually compared bulk lagering to bottle lagering?

 

[SpeedYellow]

Like others, I rack to keg then carbonate and lager there. After dozens of lagers, I've found that minimum lagering time varies by beer, but is always 4-7 weeks. Folks have been pushing shortened lager methods that largely skip lagering, but I find that a load of B.S. You just can't expect a great lager if you skip lagering.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Time to Lager is dependent on abv in my experience. I've tried faster/ warmer fermentations and don't like the flavor profiles.


I've come to trust the process Noonan describes. I usually pitch 1.5x more yeast than beersmith suggests.

I use floor malted German pils malt and usually decoct it. I'll have to reconsider the decoction since I'm moving the brewery inside on electric.

I'm perfectly happy waiting for a really clean crisp Lager. Perhaps I'm just romantic about the process and history but I'm pretty confident that old school is better when it comes to lagers. Ymmv!

 

[TheHopfather]

I'm with BeardedBrews. When I make a lager I wait for fermentation to finish, cold crash, gelatin for 24 hours and rack into a keg. I'll then lager and carbonate at the same time. I find the beer is great by 2 weeks, I've never tried pushing it out to 4 weeks before tapping the keg to see if it is an improvement or not.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

My OG is 1.053, so my Plato is ~13. If I allow 1 week for every 2 degrees Plato, then I'm at 6-1/2 weeks of lagering before I bottle. Being impatient, I guess I'd best give it at least 4 weeks to a month.

 

[Pappers_]

FWIW, I err on the side of longer lager fermentation time and longer lagering time. Patience is my friend. I almost never lager less than a month at the coldest above freezing temperature I can get and often will do two months. If you're interested in more info, read up on Prof. Bamforth's pieces on cold-aging of beer.

In no way am I saying this is the only way to do it. I just don't need to speed ferment or lager, so I don't. The last lager (a Dortmunder) won a silver at a competition, so it doesn't suck

 

[Upthewazzu]

I'm with BeardedBrews. When I make a lager I wait for fermentation to finish, cold crash, gelatin for 24 hours and rack into a keg. I'll then lager and carbonate at the same time. I find the beer is great by 2 weeks, I've never tried pushing it out to 4 weeks before tapping the keg to see if it is an improvement or not.

Like others have said, this is my method. Ferment, lower temp to 45° and fine with gelatin, cold crash at 33-34°, and then transfer to keg and carbonate. A couple weeks later the beer is good. A couple weeks after that (if there is any left) the beer is better.

 

[CRZ]

If you are bottling then I'd bulk Lager with the added time. After it's done fill the bottles with no sediment or very little, add sugar to carb.
If you bottle Lager then I'd think there will be a lot of sediment from cold clearing and carbing.
I just think to much sediment could affect the clean crisp taste.
For this reason I went into kegging.

 

[Shwagger]

I have an Irish red lagering now. After the slow process of dropping Temps 2 degrees a day, it's been lagering 3 weeks this Sunday at 35. I'll keg next Sunday.

Why rush, But I have patience. I can always buy beer if I don't have anything on tap.