Lager fermintation peocess

[BMClark2210]

Now I know that lagers take longer than ales do and it's a different process so this is what I need to know:

1. How long should it be in the primary before it goes into the secondary?
2. Once in the secondary how long should it be before I put it in the keg?

Any website would be helpful as well. I love lagers and I plan on make many, many more lol. Thanks!

 

[BMClark2210]

Oh I forgot to add that I'm doing a bock and its been at 50 degrees for just about a week.

 

[shelly_belly]

a little bit here:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10.html

I secondary and lager my lagers in the keg after a diacetyl rest

 

[SpeedYellow]

Your fermentation will finish in 7-10 days if you pitched a proper amount of yeast, and then you can do a d-rest if desired. Then most folks just throw it into the keg and lager there for several weeks.

I'll never understand what secondary fermentation means. A meaningless term IMHO.

 

[BigFloyd]

I'll check gravity on my lagers at about the 10-12 day point. If they're around 80-85% done, I'll let them come up from 48-50*F to 61-62*F for a 3-day diacetyl rest.

If a sample then confirms no slippery mouthfeel (from diacetyl precursors) or buttery taste (never had that), I'll crash to 35-36*F for 5 days or so and then rack into the keg for lagering at the same temp.

 

[Demus]

Now I know that lagers take longer than ales do and it's a different process so this is what I need to know:

There really isn't a process difference. You just need a temperature controlled ferment down in the 50's. Diacetyl rest (raising the temp into the low 60's for a few days near the end of fermentation) is more of a precaution than a requirement on most strains, but can help get you better attenuation. The primary ferment will likely take a few days or a week longer than ales, other than that, it's all the same. As for "secondary", the standard debates apply. Lagers do benefit from extended aging at cold temps, but if you have he keg space by all means, do it in the keg.
There's one other critical factor, and that's pitch rate. If you haven't paid attention to it before, now's the time. You'll need to make starters, and they'll need to be bigger than ones you've made for ales. Enjoy!

 

[Bulls Beers]

My process is pretty much the same as everybody else's. My final gravity usually finishes up in 5-7 days. I don't always do a D-rest, but when I do it about 2 days. When Finished, I'll rack it to a keg and slowly drop the temp(about 3-5 degrees a day) until I hit 32. I'll lager it for a month or two. I never do a secondary fermentation. Primary right to a keg. I guess the keg is my secondary.

 

[SpeedYellow]

There really isn't a process difference. You just need a temperature controlled ferment down in the 50's. Diacetyl rest (raising the temp into the low 60's for a few days near the end of fermentation) is more of a precaution than a requirement on most strains, but can help get you better attenuation. The primary ferment will likely take a few days or a week longer than ales, other than that, it's all the same. As for "secondary", the standard debates apply. Lagers do benefit from extended aging at cold temps, but if you have he keg space by all means, do it in the keg.
There's one other critical factor, and that's pitch rate. If you haven't paid attention to it before, now's the time. You'll need to make starters, and they'll need to be bigger than ones you've made for ales. Enjoy!

+1000. Everything he says here is spot on. Read and re-read.

 

[SpeedYellow]

... I never do a secondary fermentation. Primary right to a keg. I guess the keg is my secondary.

Agreed. The concept of "secondary" doesn't make much sense with lagers. Primary then right to keg, then lager in the keg.

 

[osagedr]

My process is pretty much the same as everybody else's. My final gravity usually finishes up in 5-7 days. I don't always do a D-rest, but when I do it about 2 days. When Finished, I'll rack it to a keg and slowly drop the temp(about 3-5 degrees a day) until I hit 32. I'll lager it for a month or two. I never do a secondary fermentation. Primary right to a keg. I guess the keg is my secondary.

Depending on the style I don't mind leaving it in the primary for quite awhile. Typically d-rest once the krausen falls at room temp for a week or two. For lighter lagers with more subtle flavours I am not a fan of leaving the beer on the yeast for longer than necessary and in the future I will be trying to move them more quickly. For something like a doppelbock it would be less important. Tend to use a secondary, but only because I often am waiting for space in one of my keg fridges to free up. I produce beer a lot faster than I drink it!

 

[ajdelange]

There are two ways to handle lager fermentation: the traditional and the speeded up get-it-off-the-loading-dock-ASAP process adopted by modern breweries. The beers aren't that much different but there are some advantages to doing it the traditional way. These may be largely placebo effect.

In the traditional method the yeast are pitched cold (around 42 °F) and the temperature allowed to rise to about 48 °F where it is held until fermentation progresses to the point that there are 1 - 2 ° extract left relative to terminal. At this point the temperature is gradually lowered a degree or 2 a day until the temperature is as close to freezing as you can get it. At this point the beer is either conditioned in a unitank for a few weeks before transferring to lagering vessels or transferred to lagering vessels right away if unitanks are not being used. It is critically important that a fair amount of yeast be transferred to the conditioning/lagering vessel as they will clean up diacetyl, acetaldehyde... After at least one but up to several months of lagering the beer can be separated from the yeast and pakaged but, if you are holding it yourself and won't disturb it it is fine to leave it on the yeast. It will stay good for a year or more if you do this (keeping it cold, of course). Note that there is no need for a diacetyl rest here. The penalty you pay for that is, of course, that you have to wait a month before the beer is really ready to drink though there is no reason you can't drink it earlier if you want to. It just won't be at its best.

In the modern method, one pitches at a higher temperature and then holds 48 - 50°F until the apparent extract is a degree or two above terminal and then increases the temperature into the 60's for a day or two. This is the 'diacetyl' rest. At the conclusion of the diacetyl rest the beer is crashed to as close to freezing as possible and then lagered. I don't have as much familiarity with this process as I don't use it. I've got plenty of time and the traditionally made beers are better.

If you want to learn how to brew lager beer you must read Greg Noonan's 'Brewing Lager Beer'.

 

[osagedr]

There are two ways to handle lager fermentation: the traditional and the speeded up get-it-off-the-loading-dock-ASAP process adopted by modern breweries. The beers aren't that much different but there are some advantages to doing it the traditional way. These may be largely placebo effect.

In the traditional method the yeast are pitched cold (around 42 °F) and the temperature allowed to rise to about 48 °F where it is held until fermentation progresses to the point that there are 1 - 2 ° extract left relative to terminal. At this point the temperature is gradually lowered a degree or 2 a day until the temperature is as close to freezing as you can get it. At this point the beer is either conditioned in a unitank for a few weeks before transferring to lagering vessels or transferred to lagering vessels right away if unitanks are not being used. It is critically important that a fair amount of yeast be transferred to the conditioning/lagering vessel as they will clean up diacetyl, acetaldehyde... After at least one but up to several months of lagering the beer can be separated from the yeast and pakaged but, if you are holding it yourself and won't disturb it it is fine to leave it on the yeast. It will stay good for a year or more if you do this (keeping it cold, of course). Note that there is no need for a diacetyl rest here. The penalty you pay for that is, of course, that you have to wait a month before the beer is really ready to drink though there is no reason you can't drink it earlier if you want to. It just won't be at its best.

In the modern method, one pitches at a higher temperature and then holds 48 - 50°F until the apparent extract is a degree or two above terminal and then increases the temperature into the 60's for a day or two. This is the 'diacetyl' rest. At the conclusion of the diacetyl rest the beer is crashed to as close to freezing as possible and then lagered. I don't have as much familiarity with this process as I don't use it. I've got plenty of time and the traditionally made beers are better.

If you want to learn how to brew lager beer you must read Greg Noonan's 'Brewing Lager Beer'.

The traditional method is ideal; only problem is that it relies upon pitching enough yeast to ensure FG is reached, and most new-ish lager brewers underpitch. So their beer gets down to 1.020 and peters out, whereas if they d-rest it, there is at least a fighting chance of getting complete attenuation.

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, proper pitching is required and, in the same vein, proper oxygenation after or during pitching is also necessary.

 

[Demus]

There are two ways to handle lager fermentation: the traditional and the speeded up get-it-off-the-loading-dock-ASAP process adopted by modern breweries. The beers aren't that much different but there are some advantages to doing it the traditional way. These may be largely placebo effect.

.....Then you go on to say.......

I don't have as much familiarity with this process as I don't use it. I've got plenty of time and the traditionally made beers are better.

If you don't have familiarity with it, why do you state the traditional way is "better"?

 

[ajdelange]

I said I didn't have as much familiarity with it. I didn't say I had no familiarity with it. I used to use the diacetyl rest method and found when switching to the more traditional method that I got better beer. One thing of note which has been cited in the literature is better head and head retention. Plus I have drunk lots of lagers made with the modern method. Those made with the traditional method are, IMO, better. Then there is the literature. Were I in the states I could look up some chapter and verse for you but I'm not and so do not have access to my library. I think I can say my Lexus is a better car than a Ford even though I have never owned a Ford.

 

[osagedr]

I said I didn't have as much familiarity with it. I didn't say I had no familiarity with it. I used to use the diacetyl rest method and found when switching to the more traditional method that I got better beer. One thing of note which has been cited in the literature is better head and head retention. Plus I have drunk lots of lagers made with the modern method. Those made with the traditional method are, IMO, better. Then there is the literature. Were I in the states I could look up some chapter and verse for you but I'm not and so do not have access to my library. I think I can say my Lexus is a better car than a Ford even though I have never owned a Ford.

I've often wanted to try the more traditional way but having good success with my current method I haven't bothered. I'll try it with my next light lager or pils. I'm at the point where I'd like to try to get that extra point or two on a high-scoring beer.

 

[ajdelange]

That's what it's about - a couple of points - if you have judges who know what they are talking about. As I'm not much for competitions (because you so seldom do get judges who know what they are talking about and I know who they are and just invite them over to taste my beer) I usually describe the differences as ones that will cause a taster to be less likely to say 'really good beer' and more likely to say 'Ah'.