Lack of hop flavor in IPA

[Cricca]

I suppose this has been discussed many times before, but does anyone have any idea how this beer barely has any hop taste at all? I have used a total of 380 g (13.5oz) and a week after I kegged it it has very little hop flavor.

Should I dry hop in the keg next time? I've been brewing beer for four years now and feel I know what I'm doing but often have problems with this, the hop flavor... and It's driving me crazy :/

 

[couchsending]

Explain your dry hopping and kegging process

 

[Cricca]

Explain your dry hopping and kegging process

This time I dry hop after three days, when the yeast was still active.
I fill the keg with star san, push everything out with co2, then I fill the keg as in the picture I attach

 

[Dgallo]

How cold is your serving temp? Could simply be young green beer and the compounds are locked up being too cold. Give it another week or 2 in the keg and let it hit its prime then judge it. But with 2.5oz/gal you should still have a rather hoppy beer

Oxidation is another main problem with hoppy beers. First you’ll notice a dulling or staling of hop flavor and aroma. Then the beer will darken. All beer is susceptible to this but hoppy beers especially.

What’s your process post fermentation? This will tell us a lot

 

[Cricca]

How cold is your serving temp? Could simply be young green beer and the compounds are locked up being too cold. Give it another week or 2 in the keg and let it hit its prime then judge it. But with 2.5oz/gal you should still have a rather hoppy beer

Oxidation is another main problem with hoppy beers. First you’ll notice a dulling or staling of hop flavor and aroma. Then the beer will darken. All beer is susceptible to this but hoppy beers especially.

What’s your process post fermentation? This will tell us a lot

It does not feel like the beer can be oxidized. I ferment at 19 degrees c (66.2f) then ramped it up to 20c (68f) after a few days. I thought it would end up at 22 degrees C.
Cold crash after 10 days and racked after 14 days

 

[Dgallo]

It does not feel like the beer can be oxidized. I ferment at 19 degrees c (66.2f) then ramped it up to 20c (68f) after a few days. I thought it would end up at 22 degrees C.
Cold crash after 10 days and racked after 14 days

Fresh packs of hops or have they been openned? If so how long stored before using them and how were they stored.

 

[Cricca]

Fresh packs of hops or have they been openned? If so how long stored before using them and how were they stored.

Fresh, all of them :/
Stored in the freezer

 

[Dgallo]

Fresh, all of them :/

Gotcha. Give it some time in the keg. Sometimes it takes 2-3 weeks for an ipa to really pop. If it’s not brightening up in flavor and aroma by then I’d lead towards oxidation. You’re practically at a 5 lb/bbl hooping rate for that beer which is grater than many of the notorious IPA that are sought after so it should be quite flavorful and aroma filled

 

[Oldskewl]

You could try some late boil hops or a flame out hop. Dry hopping and whirlpooling tend to give more aroma than flavor. What temp was your whirlpool?

 

[Dgallo]

Dry hopping and whirlpooling tend to give more aroma than flavor. What temp was your whirlpool?

Inaccurate. All give flavor and all give aroma. That was an old school way of thinking about hopping. Low whirlpool temps and dryhoping has actually been proven to provide more aroma and flavor compounds than higher temps since there are many compounds that denature at hotter temps. Late Boil and flameout additions will however add some bitterness and complexity to a beer which can elevate the overall flavor/aroma for certain hop varieties

 

[Cricca]

I whirlpool at 168.8 degrees Fahrenheit for forty minutes

 

[Cricca]

just a thought, I dont treat my sparge water. The beer is still very bitter. Can oversparing have anything to do with the lack of hop flavor? Should I treat the sparge water with lactic acid??

 

[jswillbrewforbeer]

No hops after 40 minutes to go in the boil? You will get much more flavor aroma by adding finishing hops much later in the boil. Also I find that dry hop character fades VERY quickly. I suppose everyone has her or his preferred hop addition times but I personally don't see the point in multiple bittering additions or early finishing hop additions in an IPA. My IPA hopping strategy is a single bittering addition, single flameout addition and a single dry hop addition. In my experience, flameout hops seem to provide lasting flavor and aroma and dry hops add huge aroma and some flavor. Everything you need and nothing you don't. Hope this helps!

 

[Cricca]

No hops after 40 minutes to go in the boil? You will get much more flavor aroma by adding finishing hops much later in the boil. Also I find that dry hop character fades VERY quickly. I suppose everyone has her or his preferred hop addition times but I personally don't see the point in multiple bittering additions or early finishing hop additions in an IPA. My IPA hopping strategy is a single bittering addition, single flameout addition and a single dry hop addition. In my experience, flameout hops seem to provide lasting flavor and aroma and dry hops add huge aroma and some flavor. Everything you need and nothing you don't. Hope this helps!

No, after boil is done, I lower the temp to 168 and steep hops for 40 min.. after that I chill

 

[couchsending]

just a thought, I dont treat my sparge water. The beer is still very bitter. Can oversparing have anything to do with the lack of hop flavor? Should I treat the sparge water with lactic acid??

Is your sparge water from your tap? Is it high in alkalinity?

That’s super important.

Dry hop character doesn’t fade quickly if your process is dialed and your O2 uptake is minimal.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Cold crashing draws in oxygen, unless you have a good system to avoid that.

Try this: skip the cold crash and instead package after a 2 day diacetyl rest.

 

[Cricca]

Is your sparge water from your tap? Is it high in alkalinity?

That’s super important.

Dry hop character doesn’t fade quickly if your process is dialed and your O2 uptake is minimal.

Hmm I'll have to look that up, thanks!

I just looked over my Beersmith settings, apparently I have sparged with way too much water

 

[couchsending]

Hmm I'll have to look that up, thanks!

I just looked over my Beersmith settings, apparently I have sparged with way too much water

On a beer of this ABV it’s not that critical as your gravity on the final runnings won’t get that low. However if your sparge water has a lot of bicarbonates your pH could be rising causing some tannin extraction and potentially a high boil pH.

Ideally try and add some acid to get your sparge water pH closer to 5.4 if you can for this type of beer.

Honestly probably not the cause of lack of Hop flavor but it could potentially produce a much smoother beer.

 

[Cyclman]

Sounds like a water issue to me. Build up the water from distilled, see if it makes a difference. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/

 

[Cricca]

On a beer of this ABV it’s not that critical as your gravity on the final runnings won’t get that low. However if your sparge water has a lot of bicarbonates your pH could be rising causing some tannin extraction and potentially a high boil pH.

Ideally try and add some acid to get your sparge water pH closer to 5.4 if you can for this type of beer.

Honestly probably not the cause of lack of Hop flavor but it could potentially produce a much smoother beer.

Here's the water profile I have at home according to Google . I posted a screenshot in my first post of my water treatment

 

[HopsAreGood]

I have found that adding hops within the final 20 minutes of the boil, along with flame out, whirlpool, dry hop, etc...has contributed a ton of lasting flavor. I used to brew my ipas without any hops added in the boil, and while they were ok, they definitely lacked the flavor that I was looking for. I’m very pleased with the results since I’ve started doing this. I shoot for around 50-60 calculated ibus within the final 20 minutes of the boil.

For a long time I subscribed to the whole minimal bittering addition at 60, then only flameout, cool whirlpool, dry hop strategy. The end result was ok, but definitely lacked flavor and seemed to fade very quickly. Since I’ve started utilizing more late kettle additions I have much more flavor and the beer seems to be much more stable.

Looking at your recipe I’d say your 60 and 45 minute additions are likely falling into the bitterness only category and not providing much flavor. Then your steep and dry hop additions are probably adding significant aroma and some flavor...but not as much as you’d like.

I’d suggest adding some kettle additions within the final 20 minutes and see if you like the results.

 

[Cricca]

I have found that adding hops within the final 20 minutes of the boil, along with flame out, whirlpool, dry hop, etc...has contributed a ton of lasting flavor. I used to brew my ipas without any hops added in the boil, and while they were ok, they definitely lacked the flavor that I was looking for. I’m very pleased with the results since I’ve started doing this. I shoot for around 50-60 calculated ibus within the final 20 minutes of the boil.

For a long time I subscribed to the whole minimal bittering addition at 60, then only flameout, cool whirlpool, dry hop strategy. The end result was ok, but definitely lacked flavor and seemed to fade very quickly. Since I’ve started utilizing more late kettle additions I have much more flavor and the beer seems to be much more stable.

Looking at your recipe I’d say your 60 and 45 minute additions are likely falling into the bitterness only category and not providing much flavor. Then your steep and dry hop additions are probably adding significant aroma and some flavor...but not as much as you’d like.

I’d suggest adding some kettle additions within the final 20 minutes and see if you like the results.

Thanks for the input! I'll try that next time!
However, the beer taste much better now... but I'm not 100% pleased.

I'm brewing a clone of the "Hop-FU!" west coast ipa this sunday, which have a lot of different hop additions

 

[Cricca]

Thanks everyone! The beer tastes much better now, i guess it just needed a couple of weeks!