Kettle Sour....Super Rad by Alvarado Street

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jhart94949

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Okay, I understand sours are tough for the big guys because it takes equipment that is designated solely for “sour” beers. But I have seen a few beers lately from some local brewery’s that I know are not doing that. For example Super Rad by Alvarado Street Brewery. It is claimed to be a Kettle Sour Ale, made with lots of pineapple and probiotics....see picture.... really like it and want to make one. View attachment IMG_1508036952.721919.jpg
 
I use Goodbelly Mango from whole foods. The process is pretty simple. I researched sourbeerblog.com 's advanced kettle souring article, and the milk the funk wiki kettle souring method. Pretty solid procedures developed by those sources.

The important things I have learned are
1: Find a way to keep o2 out of the LAB souring
2: Use no hops at all until you souring is complete
3: Pre sour wort with Lactic Acid prior to LAB souring
4: Do a short boil before souring and a full boil after (at least 30 min)
5: Find a Sac yeast that is pretty acid tolerant (Sacc Trois is really good with kettle souring)
6: Use acid starters in yeast If you are going really sour.
7: Taste the Soured wort before doing your boil and investing more time. If it smells like puke, dump it.

This is all just method stuff, and mainly stuff I picked up from the mentioned sources. There many ways to achieve acidity. Hope at least something there helps. I kinda jumped into Ketlle Souring and it took me a few try's to get one right. I feel pretty solid at it now. I still prefer Mixed Fermentations. I originally wanted to try it out so I could get some more sour stuff in my pipeline. I have 2 taps for clean beer and only 1 for funky stuff.

Kettle Souring also kicks ass for Brett Fermentations.
 
Is “kettle sour” and “sour mash” the same thing? I have found a lot of info on sour mash. Seems pretty easy with a good mash tun. I have the Ss Brewtech Mashtun so I can put a heater in the bottom and keep a great sour temp for 12-24 hours
 
Is “kettle sour” and “sour mash” the same thing? I have found a lot of info on sour mash. Seems pretty easy with a good mash tun. I have the Ss Brewtech Mashtun so I can put a heater in the bottom and keep a great sour temp for 12-24 hours
Not the same thing. With sour mashing, you're souring, well, in the mash. With kettle souring the mash is already complete, you've run off to your kettle, and are then souring (usually boiling after souring to kill the lacto and therefore not infect your equipment down the line).
 
Not the same thing. With sour mashing, you're souring, well, in the mash. With kettle souring the mash is already complete, you've run off to your kettle, and are then souring (usually boiling after souring to kill the lacto and therefore not infect your equipment down the line).

Got it, okay what method is better? Do they both produce the same product? Or are they both completely different methods that produce completely different beers?
 
Got it, okay what method is better? Do they both produce the same product? Or are they both completely different methods that produce completely different beers?

Disclaimer: I've never done a sour mash, but have done plenty of reading on it. I've done several kettle sours.

I don't know that I can say one way is "better" than the other. I will say that, IMO, kettle souring is easier to do and less chance of off flavors. If a sour mash is done correctly, and with a little bit of luck, yes it's essentially the same beer as a kettle sour, i.e., single note lactic sourness.

With kettle souring, you mash as usual, vorlauf/lauter as usual, and when you have your kettle full of wort, you pitch your lactobacillus, seal it up, and let it sour.

With sour mashing, you perform your mash and then sour in the mash tun, with the grains, before sparging. Also, most people use grains for their source of lacto in sour mashing. IMO, because of this especially, sour mashing can be more problematic when it comes to off flavors from unwanted microbes.

But most people use a pure lacto source (either commercial strain, yogurt, or probiotic shots) for kettle souring, which can be much cleaner and easier to work with. Moreover, by using grain for lacto in sour mashing, you have to keep it in the optimal temp range (around 100). But probiotic shots (kettle souring) can sour just fine at room temp.

Bottom line: IMO, kettle souring is much easier, reliable, and consistent than sour mashing. And if you get some unwanted microbes from the grains in sour mashing, it's essentially done and you have to throw it out. For those reasons, I always preferred kettle souring over sour mashing.

Eventually though, once I had enough taps and equipment, I quit kettle souring altogether and just pitch lacto and sacc together and let it ride.
 
So I just finished my first keg off a kettle sour I did. I mashed, sparged, pitched lacto directly into my grainfather and came back a few days later and killed the lacto. Then I fermented as usual with nottingham and racked it on raspberries. Super easy, and it was amazing.
 

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So I just finished my first keg off a kettle sour I did. I mashed, sparged, pitched lacto directly into my grainfather and came back a few days later and killed the lacto. Then I fermented as usual with nottingham and racked it on raspberries. Super easy, and it was amazing.

You willing to share that recipe?
 
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