Just poured 21L down the toilet, would like to know what I did wrong before trying again

[BrewingNoobing]

Hey guys, I just tried my first SMASH home brew (I've done from a bag a few times, but never from scratch) a few days ago and unfortunately I checked on it today and it was disgusting. A film layer on the top, I believe some mold formed too. I had to dump it out.

Before trying again I'd like to try to figure out everything I did wrong. I'm going to post here everything I did along with a few questions at the bottom, I'm hoping some novice/experts here can help me out;

Steps I took:
Cleaned & Sanitized all equipment
Heated up 6.5L of tap water (stove top)
Poured 5.5LBs of 2 row malt into a grain bag
Put that grain bag into the boiled water
Added some hops directly into the grain bag
Kept temperature around 151 degrees for 1 hour
After 1 hour was up, added more hops
Sparged using 8.5L of tap water
Poured the mash into a fermenting bucket. Lid was loosely on top
repeated process (I halved a recipe, since my pot is small). Combining 2nd batch with the first

Questions:
Was tap water okay to use? Where I live the tap water is what we drink.
Should I have cleaned/washed the malt beforehand?
Did I add the hops properly (Straight into the grain bag) If not, could that have been part of my issue?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Was the grain milled?

No, we don't wash the grain.

Boiling water is way too hot for mashing.

What about cooling the wort? When was yeast pitched and at what temp was the wort?

Fermentation temp?

What is being used for fermentation? Plastic bucket?

Tap water is probably fine for brewing. For a beginner I'd worry about other things.

If believe there is mold it came from somewhere/something. Boiling normally kills off problems. Therefore, any infection happened after the boil.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

"Poured the mash into a fermenting bucket. Lid was loosely on top." So nothing was ever boiled?

Lid on loose? Air lock? Hoping to achieve a wild yeast fermentation?

 

[Blazinlow86]

You should have removed the grain bag after your 1 hour mash was completed then added hops and boiled for another hour. Pics would have helped as I'm not sure that would have caused contamination however. Don't get discouraged practice makes perfect. Cheers

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Perhaps before the next 21L down the drain, consider

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/

 

[BrewingNoobing]

The grain was not milled. The package says that it's a 'Grain malt', does that mean it's already milled?

Nothing was ever boiled. The temperature was brought slightly higher so that when the grains went in, the temperature dropped to ~151.

I forgot to add that I did add yeast at the end of course. Also the 2 batches were ~20 hours apart. The first batch went without yeast for those ~20 hours.

I do not have a cooling wort. The mash cooled in the fermentation bucket

The fermentation bucket temperature was around 67 degrees F for ~3 days. However when I first poured it in, it was around 77F

Next time I am going to ferment inside a glass carboy, with a bung and that water thing attached (Sorry don't remember the name, the bung has a hole in it and the plastic thing filled with water prevents germs from getting through I believe).
I thought a bucket with a loose lid would be okay, as I've done so with brew in a bag before transferring to a carboy

 

[BrewingNoobing]

Sorry for confusion, nothing was ever boiled. nothing was milled and I do not have cooling wort.
I transferred from the pot to a plastic bucket, then added the yeast.

 

[camonick]

Hey guys, I just tried my first SMASH home brew (I've done from a bag a few times, but never from scratch) a few days ago and unfortunately I checked on it today and it was disgusting. A film layer on the top, I believe some mold formed too. I had to dump it out.

Before trying again I'd like to try to figure out everything I did wrong. I'm going to post here everything I did along with a few questions at the bottom, I'm hoping some novice/experts here can help me out;

Steps I took:
Cleaned & Sanitized all equipment
Heated up 6.5L of tap water (stove top)
Poured 5.5LBs of 2 row malt into a grain bag
Put that grain bag into the boiled water
Added some hops directly into the grain bag
Kept temperature around 151 degrees for 1 hour
After 1 hour was up, added more hops
Sparged using 8.5L of tap water
Poured the mash into a fermenting bucket. Lid was loosely on top
repeated process (I halved a recipe, since my pot is small). Combining 2nd batch with the first

Questions:
Was tap water okay to use? Where I live the tap water is what we drink.
Should I have cleaned/washed the malt beforehand?
Did I add the hops properly (Straight into the grain bag) If not, could that have been part of my issue?

If I'm reading your OP correctly, the steps in your process are very wrong. I think what you made was a grain and hop soup. I agree with @Tobor_8thMan about doing more research before you try your next batch. I'll include a couple things for you to look at. I think from reading your post, you are trying to do the BIAB method. If you are, I suggest reading this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/biab-brewing-with-pics.233289/
If you are doing the more traditional 3 vessel method, here are the printed instructions that MoreBeer includes with their all grain kits.

 

[camonick]

Next time I am going to ferment inside a glass carboy, with a bung and that water thing attached (Sorry don't remember the name, the bung has a hole in it and the plastic thing filled with water prevents germs from getting through I believe).
I thought a bucket with a loose lid would be okay, as I've done so with brew in a bag before transferring to a carboy

It's imperative that you understand and get all the brewing steps correct. Until you get all the brewing processes down correctly, it isn't going to matter what kind of a vessel you ferment in. The item that goes in the bung on a carboy or grommet in a bucket lid is called an airlock. There are 2 kinds, a 3 piece or "S" shape. Also, all the grains you use need to be crushed with some kind of grain mill before they are added to the mash. The bag in your OP appears to be a bulk sack of 2-row malt which would not be milled.

 

[BrewingNoobing]

I was using the BIAB method, such as the one used in this video:

I'll mill the next batch and use the 3 piece airlock and a Carboy

 

[Alex4mula]

OMG! Yes you screwed up several of the basic steps of brewing. I agree all you had was a soup of grain and hops and no wort. I suggest you to go and watch 10-20 more YouTube videos on how to brew and you will be much better after that. If you do your homework you will get beer next time.

 

[z-bob]

What's in the little bag in front of the grain, is that your hops? Those should be stored in the freezer. (that's the least of your problems right now, but will be a problem later)

 

[camonick]

OMG! I suggest you to go and watch 10-20 more YouTube videos on how to brew and you will be much better after that. If you do your homework you will get beer next time.

^^^ This
That video is a start, although a little weird. I would definitely watch more. Everybody eventually develops their own style/ technique. There are a couple things in that video I would say are a little questionable... mostly his sanitation and he also used close to 2X more yeast than necessary.

 

[FunkedOut]

Here’s the super simplified set of steps:

Mill the grains.
Mash the grains for 1 hour at 150*F.
Drain into a boil kettle.

Boil for 1 hour with hops (this is the step where you kill all the nasty stuff that will ruin your beer).
*After boiling is complete, you start worrying about making sure everything that touches your wort/beer is sanitized.

Cool the wort to yeast fermentation temp.
Pitch the yeast.

Good luck. At least you knew enough to dump that stomach ache!

 

[rhys333]

You have a fair bit of reading to do before trying all-grain. If you want to get rolling quickly, and I sense that you do, then I suggest trying an extract batch. You won't learn the front end stuff, but it will give you a feel for boiling, hop additions, cooling and fermenting.

 

[mongoose33]

Tap water is fine for brewing.

Maybe. And maybe not.

Some people are lucky, and their tap water is just fine for brewing the styles they brew.

Mine? Not a chance. Not only is it suitable for nothing but stouts--which I don't brew--but it is chlorinated. So, I add crushed campden tablets to manage the chlorine, and I use mostly Reverse Osmosis water with a gallon of tap water added in.

Sometimes people will say the water isn't important, not realizing that their water might be just fine for brewing certain styles, but others' water is horrible.

My tap water is drawn from 1100 feet down in some sort of limestone formation that makes the water very alkaline. When I lived in eastern North Carolina our water was also drawn from ground water, but it was from shallow wells and the soil was fairly sandy--which means the ground water was essentially rain water. Soft.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm not a big fan of youtube videos. What do you do when they don't agree? I've seen some where I flat-out disagree with their process. So be very careful there.

I believe you will be far better served getting a good book or two and using that as the basis for your brewing. Palmer's "How to Brew" is the usual recommendation from people here. It's very helpful for new brewers, but goes deep enough that you can continue to grow with it.

Brewing is relatively simple, but it's not simplistic. Make a mistake with the water, or how you crush the grain, or boil times, or mash temps, or.....well, a lot of things, and you can end up with beer that is very different than what you expected. Brewing is actually fairly resilient--up to a point. The trick is to stay within the limits where that resilience works.

******

I *am* a big fan of continuous quality improvement. That is, every time you brew, try to do something better than last time. As you proceed in your brewing career, you'll discover that your beers are getting better and better, because you're eliminating bad habits and process mistakes that reduce beer's quality.

******

One of the things that makes brewing challenging to learn is all the new jargon and processes. Just think about all these terms of which we generally have no understanding when we start: mash, tun, sparge, hydrometer, refractometer, specific gravity, sparge arm, isomerization, alpha acids, strike water, strike temperature, yeast starter, pH, and a whole lot more. Takes time to get comfortable with all of that, and make them part of our working vocabulary.

But there's one thing that is, in my opinion, the single hardest thing for new brewers to learn:

Patience.

A good thing to do, again IMO, is to imagine where you want to be as a brewing in six months or a year from now. Work toward that, and accept it's going to take some time to fit all this together.

But as you do that, embrace the journey, as they say. Have a good time learning it, figuring things out, solving the puzzles. Because if you're not having fun doing this, you are doing it wrong.

Good luck, welcome to brewing, and enjoy the journey!

 

[Miraculix]

You didn't boil the wort, didn't isomerize hops and then killed the yeast by pitching it into too hot wort.

There are good beginner tutorials online, read them and follow them! You did a lot of stuff wrong, but next time you can do it right.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Maybe. And maybe not.

Some people are lucky, and their tap water is just fine for brewing the styles they brew.

Mine? Not a chance. Not only is it suitable for nothing but stouts--which I don't brew--but it is chlorinated. So, I add crushed campden tablets to manage the chlorine, and I use mostly Reverse Osmosis water with a gallon of tap water added in.

Sometimes people will say the water isn't important, not realizing that their water might be just fine for brewing certain styles, but others' water is horrible.

My tap water is drawn from 1100 feet down in some sort of limestone formation that makes the water very alkaline. When I lived in eastern North Carolina our water was also drawn from ground water, but it was from shallow wells and the soil was fairly sandy--which means the ground water was essentially rain water. Soft.

By "fine" I meant doubtful his tap water was the source of his problems. I realize we can tweak distilled water (et al) with brewing chemicals to achieve the water profile we seek. This person is a beginner. No reason for me to get into water treatments, etc.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I'm not a big fan of youtube videos.

I absolutely agree. Just because someone records themselves doing something doesn't necessarily make what they are doing correct/right.

Go to knowledgeable sources. AHA, BYO, books, etc for learning. Only after learning actually brew.

When I began homebrewing in 1995 I became interested when I read a newspaper (I know, I know "What's a newspaper?") article on homebrewing in 1994. My interest was piqued. I visited a local homebrew store not to purchase a brewing kit, but to purchase a few books on brewing. I wanted to learn as much as possible. Like most the first book I read was "The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing" by Charlie Papazian. I probably read this book 3 times. I read and researched at least 1 year before I actually brewed anything.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

AHA sponsors a "Teach a friend to brew" day each year. Believe it's in November. Find a friend. Check the AHA website for a list of brewers nearby participating.

 

[mongoose33]

By "fine" I meant doubtful his tap water was the source of his problems. I realize we can tweak distilled water (et al) with brewing chemicals to achieve the water profile we seek. This person is a beginner. No reason for me to get into water treatments, etc.

I am afraid we're going to have to disagree on this.

I'm a great example of a newbie brewer who was misled by the "water doesn't matter" theory of brewing that newbies sometimes get. My first three or four brews were with tap water. Well. Not the best way for me to proceed. Those beers weren't that good. I started paying attention to water and my beers got a lot better.

The problem with this is sometimes, not paying attention to water works--IF your water is decent for brewing. I live about 25 miles from Dubuque IA. Their water, by all reports, is pretty great for brewing. But then, they're not pulling that water from 1100 feet down like mine. It's fairly soft. I know of one guy who moved away from Dubuque who brings containers when he visits just to bring the water back for brewing.

Some brewers will say something like "when I started brewing I didn't pay any attention to water and my beer turned out fine." I'm sure it did. The problem is that all the other new brewers reading that aren't using their water.

*****

I taught a friend to brew, had him watch me brew, then I watched him brew, then he flew solo on his third batch (with about 5 texts and a phone call during ). All three batches were excellent--because I made all the decisions for him, he simply had to focus on executing the process.

But get even one of those decisions wrong, and all the process in the world isn't going to fix it. Such as, for instance, overly alkaline water that doesn't let the pH of the mash fall into the correct range. Or not paying attention to the chlorine in the tap water.

I'm all for simplifying brewing for newbies--but I think there are ways to do that which do not increase the likelihood of failure, and one of those it to not ignore the water. Yeah, the "don't worry about the water" advice will work for some people, but what about new brewers who are lulled into thinking it doesn't matter?

They end up chasing their tails trying to figure out why their beer is NG, not knowing that the original "advice" about water is wrong. I think we should work to avoid the "one size fits all" advice on water, and be honest with people, and set them up for success, not potential failure.

My 2 cents.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Mongoose33 yes, well water is different. By "tap water' I took it as public utility water. Yes, there are unwanted chemicals in public utility water. However, a newbie has enough to worry about their first few times (hence the topic of the OP). I didn't want to overwhelm the OP with references to brewing water profiles, Brun Water spreadsheet, etc.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

AHA sponsors a "Teach a friend to brew" day each year. Believe it's in November. Find a friend. Check the AHA website for a list of brewers nearby participating.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/aha-events/learn-to-homebrew-day/

also https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/aha-events/national-homebrew-day/

 

[Velnerj]

You have to at least pasteurize your wort. Malt contains natural bacteria that will spoil your beer if you don't kill them off with heat. Most brewers boil their wort (after mashing) for 60 min and that is when they add hops. The boiling process extracts the alpha acids from the hops and isomerize them in the wort which makes it taste bitter (that's a very crude explanation).
If you don't boil (or at least pasteurize) your wort, it will certainly spoil and no matter how much sanitation you do your "beer" will be undrinkable.

 

[mongoose33]

Mongoose33 yes, well water is different. By "tap water' I took it as public utility water. Yes, there are unwanted chemicals in public utility water. However, a newbie has enough to worry about their first few times (hence the topic of the OP). I didn't want to overwhelm the OP with references to brewing water profiles, Brun Water spreadsheet, etc.

<sigh>

I appreciate your desire to simplify things as much as possible. In some cases, you'll be successful in simplifying things for a new brewer by telling them, as you did above, "Tap water is fine for brewing." But not in all cases, and quite possibly not in the majority of cases. In my case, I was misled by that at the outset; fortunately, I didn't quit and doggedly pursued eliminating things that were holding down the beer I brewed.

IMO, we shouldn't say "Tap water is fine for brewing" when in fact it often is not, or it is in only some circumstances, or only if you do some amendments to it. That misleads any new brewer who reads it.

 

[IslandLizard]

I only have one word:
http://www.howtobrew.com/

Or better yet, the new edition/modern version of it:
https://www.amazon.com/How-Brew-Everything-Great-Every/dp/1938469356

 

[eric19312]

I’m thinking when OP mentioned he’d previously brewed in a bag and done ok we might have misunderstood what he meant. I’m thinking it might have been one of these kits...

https://www.ebay.com/c/1090400040

OP lots of great advice above. That “How to Brew” free online book will really get you started in a good direction before the community on here scares you off with all the complexity we seem to love bringing to the process. Making decent homebrew that will amaze your friends is easily within reach. Keep at it and don’t worry about asking what you think might be dumb questions, the forums would be no fun without them.

 

[dwhite60]

I would highly recommend trying to find a local homebrewing club then try to sit in on someone's brew day. Could potentially save you hundreds of dollars and lots of time. If they have a bigger system you may even get some beer out of it.

If we knew where you were you might find that someone here is close enough to help you out.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[BrewingNoobing]

What temperature should the mash be boiled at?
Do I need to be careful about the mash getting too hot (E.g not hotter then 158F) if I'm boiling for an hour afterwards anyway?

 

[dwhite60]

What temperature should the mash be boiled at?
Do I need to be careful about the mash getting too hot (E.g not hotter then 158F) if I'm boiling for an hour afterwards anyway?

I'll reiterate what someone else said.

http://www.howtobrew.com/

One read of this and most all your questions will be answered. Yes, taking the time to read and learn sucks but, sometimes it's just the best way to do it.

I started playing fiddle and harmonica by ear. Once I did some reading, learned some music theory, and PAINFULLY learned to read music, my playing improved tremendously.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[camonick]

What temperature should the mash be boiled at?
Do I need to be careful about the mash getting too hot (E.g not hotter then 158F) if I'm boiling for an hour afterwards anyway?

The mash is NEVER boiled (or even close). The temperature the mash needs to be held at depends on what style of beer you're brewing. The range of the mash temperature is typically 145-158 degrees, again... dependent on style. A mash that is too hot will denature the enzymes and prevent them from converting the starch to sugar. The boil after the mash is a completely different step in the process.
Follow all the advice above and read, read, read. Understand what all the different processes are and why we do them. Here is another good read about the mash process: https://www.morebeer.com/articles/mashing101

 

[BrewingNoobing]

That's what I thought but a comment above says to boil after mashing:

"Mill the grains.
Mash the grains for 1 hour at 150*F.
Drain into a boil kettle.

Boil for 1 hour with hops (this is the step where you kill all the nasty stuff that will ruin your beer).
*After boiling is complete, you start worrying about making sure everything that touches your wort/beer is sanitized."

 

[BrewingNoobing]

"What's in the little bag in front of the grain, is that your hops? Those should be stored in the freezer. (that's the least of your problems right now, but will be a problem later)"

Not trying to argue but the guy at the brewery store said the hops do not need to be in a freezer. Are they required to be in the freezer?

 

[jrgtr42]

Mongoose33 yes, well water is different. By "tap water' I took it as public utility water. Yes, there are unwanted chemicals in public utility water. However, a newbie has enough to worry about their first few times (hence the topic of the OP). I didn't want to overwhelm the OP with references to brewing water profiles, Brun Water spreadsheet, etc.

I agree with you. For a first time brewer, tap water is usually fine - as long as you can drink it and you don't taste anything weird in it, it's fine for brewing.
When I started, I did not use my tap water - it was municipal, there wasn't anything weird, but it didn't taste right to drink straight. I wasn't going to sit there and strain 7 gallons through my Brita, so I did get bottled spring water from the supermarket. My beer still wasn't great, but it was my first time.
In the case when the other poster is getting his well water from super deep, yeah, not good for brewing.
Yes, as you get better and deeper into brewing then having an RO machine and building water from scratch per the style is preferable, but that's not something to worry a first-timer about, when s/he's got a million other things going on to worry. And in this case, the water is the least of his concerns.

 

[camonick]

That's what I thought but a comment above says to boil after mashing:

"Mill the grains.
Mash the grains for 1 hour at 150*F.
Drain into a boil kettle.

Boil for 1 hour with hops (this is the step where you kill all the nasty stuff that will ruin your beer).
*After boiling is complete, you start worrying about making sure everything that touches your wort/beer is sanitized."

Again... read, read, read. Pay close attention to the terminology and what it means. I’m not sure you understand the difference between the mashing process and then boiling the wort produced from that process.

That's what I thought but a comment above says to boil after mashing:

Yes, you do boil AFTER the mash is complete. They are 2 different and separate steps. What @FunkedOut stated in that post is 100% correct.
Do you know anybody else who homebrews? Where are you located? It was also recommended above to seek out and shadow someone else who knows the process.

 

[IslandLizard]

That! ^

If that sack of grain there is unmilled, don't forget to mill your grain before mashing it. Whole kernels can't be mashed (enzymes converting grain starches to sugars) as the water can't penetrate and hydrate them, so you end up with water, and no (sugary, sweet) wort.

Milling finer gives faster and more complete conversion in the mash but if milled too fine the mash won't drain well after it's done. After milling there should be very few (white) grain pieces larger than 3/32", lots of brown empty husks and very little dust.

BTW, that's a really nice quality malt you have there! When all ingredients are handled and brewing processes applied correctly, it should make some very yummy beer!

Hops should be stored in the original (mylar) bags, ideally in the freezer. You may put the mylar bag(s) containing the hops inside a ziplock bag as you did here, that's fine. The less air inside the better. They keep best in the freezer, especially after opening.

A few weeks stored in the fridge is OK, but freezing is much better for hops' longevity. To store an opened bag with hops, squeeze all air out, roll up the flap tightly as you squeeze, then tape it down to the bulky body of the bag. The less air inside (oxygen is the bandit here) the better your hops keep.

 

[eric19312]

That's what I thought but a comment above says to boil after mashing:

"Mill the grains.
Mash the grains for 1 hour at 150*F.
Drain into a boil kettle.

Boil for 1 hour with hops (this is the step where you kill all the nasty stuff that will ruin your beer).
*After boiling is complete, you start worrying about making sure everything that touches your wort/beer is sanitized."

Drain into a boil kettle in this context means to separate the remaining mash solids from the mash liquid. The brewing term for this is lautering and if you rinse these solids with some fresh hot water that is called sparging. The sweet liquid you collect is sweet wort, that’s what gets boiled with hops for 60 min.

 

[kh54s10]

There was a lot done wrong so it is no wonder it was bad. But the mold etc means infection. That is probably because nothing was boiled. Though there are no boil procedures. But, it could also have been that sanitation was also lacking.

 

[OnePlate]

... the guy at the brewery store said ...

The guy at the brewery store should have sold you a copy of www.howtobrew.com. As has been stated before, this should be required reading for you. Either read that website or go back to the brew store and buy the most recent edition of the book if he has a copy, or order it from Amazon. If you are the kind of person who does not like to read, then this is going to be a difficult hobby for you to learn properly, let alone make a beer you are proud to drink.

I'm not trying to be harsh or unhelpful here, rather I want you to get the best straightforward education on home brewing that a bunch of disjointed forum posts that occasionally turn into long-winded debates will not provide for you. Self-education is one of the biggest parts of this hobby if you do not have someone with brewing experience to hold your hand through brewing a batch. YouTube videos can help add clarity after reading about the process of brewing but they are not a substitute for reading a book that is basically the best place to start with home brewing.

We all started out somewhat confused and have had batches of beer that did not turn out well or at all. Do not get discouraged! Stick with it and you will find this is one of the most fulfilling hobbies you can imagine.