Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?

[melville]

This is all great stuff! Love the yeast research. Science! A few things I believe and have heard to achieve softer beers.

1. Low salt additions. I'll add enough sulfate to get me to around 20 ppm and CaCl to get to about 50-70. I believe grain will add some sulfate, someone please correct me if that's wrong.
2. High percentage of flaked oats. I feel it really helps give a fuller mouthfeel. But it looks like Nate doesn't use it so there's other ways to still get the mouthfeel without adding flaked grains. I do think the protein aids in keeping aroma around.
3. Higher FGs help provide a residual sweetness which leads to improved mouthfeel but not a cloying taste.
4. I don't think anyone has touched on it yet but carbonation levels might play a key. I like to carb my brews to 2.0-2.1. I did hear from a friend that most of the northeast breweries carb their beer at 2.8-2.9 but that's because they are using N.E. ball faucets (I know Treehouse has them if you've been there). Those faucets lose some carbonation as it pours I guess.

Based on Nate's twitter it sounds like they are using more sulfate than chloride. When I measure Julius I get 1.013 (ph 4.5). With this yeast mix I'm at 1.010. I mashed at 150, so there's room in there to mash higher, get a higher gravity and presumably get more mouthfeel and sweetness.

Carbonation. I'm beginning to suspect that how they carbonate is key to nailing down their famed "pillowy, rounded, mouthfeel"

 

[melville]

Pulled a sample from mine (cold crashed and one day on gas, probably 5 days from being carbed) and anything non-IPA-ish is gone, there's no mistaking it for a NEIPA. Two things I notice, a silky, velvety mouthfeel — this seems like something T-58 might contribute to, and if I search for it, something someone might call bubblegum, I see this mentioned with WB-06 and T-58, so not sure which to lean on to get more of it. There is no banana and no spice.

 

[isomerization]

Pulled a sample from mine (cold crashed and one day on gas, probably 5 days from being carbed) and anything non-IPA-ish is gone, there's no mistaking it for a NEIPA. Two things I notice, a silky, velvety mouthfeel — this seems like something T-58 might contribute to, and if I search for it, something someone might call bubblegum, I see this mentioned with WB-06 and T-58, so not sure which to lean on to get more of it. There is no banana and no spice.

The words in your post sound positive, but the vibe I'm getting is that this isn't in the right direction? I'd try a mash temp at 154-156 next, depends on how you alter yeast ratios. Just because TH finishes at 1.013, doesn't mean we have to.

 

[marshallb]

@melville what does your grain bill look like?
What would you say your beer may be lacking as compared to Treehouse?

 

[skibb]

Pulled a sample from mine (cold crashed and one day on gas, probably 5 days from being carbed) and anything non-IPA-ish is gone, there's no mistaking it for a NEIPA. Two things I notice, a silky, velvety mouthfeel — this seems like something T-58 might contribute to, and if I search for it, something someone might call bubblegum, I see this mentioned with WB-06 and T-58, so not sure which to lean on to get more of it. There is no banana and no spice.

Give us some specs! Water/FG/yeast blend ratio etc. Sorry if its some where buried in this thread... there are so many posts

 

[skibb]

I just set up an account with a lab - if anyone wants to send me some cans of TH I can run full specs on them and report back.

We are talking OG/FG (real and apparent extract), SRM, measured IBU, calcium/sulfate/chloride

PM me if interested.

 

[melville]

The words in your post sound positive, but the vibe I'm getting is that this isn't in the right direction? I'd try a mash temp at 154-156 next, depends on how you alter yeast ratios. Just because TH finishes at 1.013, doesn't mean we have to.

Exactly, I'm too dry with this, way to dry. 150 is where I've been mashing with 1318 to get me to 1.13 and that finishes sweet to begin with. Next time with this mix I'll have to go 154-156 like you said, maybe a bit higher.

Personally — I've been bending my NEIPAs a bit dryer in the finish, even adding a pinch of rye and looking at ways to go more grapefruity/white wine with hops (and color), but to be more Tree House-y I feel you need to be a bit sweeter — it's hard to get "bubblegum" without sweetness (sugar + esters = bubblegum)

 

[melville]

@melville what does your grain bill look like?
What would you say your beer may be lacking as compared to Treehouse?

33.5% 2-row
33.5% Pilsner
15% Malted Oats
15% Flaked Oats
3% C20

flame out and dry hop with motueka, galaxy, citra, (bittered with comet and have a small percentage in with the dry hop)

Malt bill is all wrong for a Tree House beer for one (color) but for sure my finish is more dry, I don't have the roundness in flavor nor the saturation that I think they get in the kettle. Mine is obviously still "green" and days away from being properly carb'd, but I'm doubtful that'll end up as creamy (likely more prickly) in the end.

On the positive side, this is the most aroma I've had going in an IPA (3 days in a keg, under pressure, at 65F)

Bottom line this will taste very good, and this yeast mix will not ruin your beer, but there's more to TH than yeast (heck there's more to TH's yeast than just knowing the strains).

 

[melville]

Give us some specs! Water/FG/yeast blend ratio etc. Sorry if its some where buried in this thread... there are so many posts

Water is Poland Springs with additions to make for 75:200 sodium:chloride (I know, not a TH profile)

OG: 1.068
FG: 1.010

used 50:30:20 S:04:WB-06:T-58

 

[melville]

Next beer will just simplify to a more Tree House grist:

92% Rahr 2-row
4% carafoam
4% medium crystal

(the above an average of what we know from their Curiosity series — they either use 2-row, Pale Malt, carafoam, and/or crystal. Look at the corresponding pics of beers and you can get a sense of which are probably 2-row and which are probably Pale. Rahr Pale is "sweeter" and darker (ala Julius), but I don't have any on hand at the moment. One of the highest rated Tree House beers is #32: Pale and Dextrin Malt. I assume 95%:5%-ish)

Mash higher and really target something like 1.014 FG.
Then my goal is to really let the fermentation go, follow their FV and temp schedule for 2-3 weeks. I notice the fermentis data sheets say these yeasts take 10 days to fully ferment, a bit longer for WB-06. Look at Nate's "hoppy things" guidance:

"Once desired gravity is reached, rest for a few days and dry hop for 4–6 days."
That's almost 3 weeks of time.

The final piece of the process puzzle is natural carbonation. Still looking into that process.

 

[lilbova3]

You think they are kraeusening? That's the only thing that seems logical if they are naturally carbonating. Then once in kegs just have it on enough pressure to be pushed out.

You'd add your done fermented beer to a keg then add some fermenting wort into the beer and let sit around 68* for 5-7 days?

 

[melville]

You think they are kraeusening? That's the only thing that seems logical if they are naturally carbonating. Then once in kegs just have it on enough pressure to be pushed out.

You'd add your done fermented beer to a keg then add some fermenting wort into the beer and let sit around 68* for 5-7 days?

Browsing around the pro brewer reddit it seems like the most popular method is to use priming sugar, pitch conditioning yeast, and circulate the mix in a brite tank. Krausening sounds a bit too complicated and seems like it might require a lab guy to get consistent results.

Just to throw a wrench into everything I'm going to throw out the possibility that TH conditions with a mix of yeasts T-58/CBC-1(F2)/WB-06 and primaries with one S-04. Or primaries with two and conditions with two. A lot of brewers use T-58 to condition.

At some point just need to separately ferment the main three and see what each brings to the table.

 

[couchsending]

Pretty sure Treehouse has a lab of sorts and I doubt it's that complicated for those guys. There's a simple calculator for it online even. I doubt they do anything just cause it's easy. If it's more difficult but has a positive impact on the beer then it gets done. There is no reason to natural condition with three yeast strains. If CBC-1 is present that is what it is for. Also just because there is a certain ratio of yeast in the cans I don't think that reallly has an exact correlation to the ratio they would use in the production of beer. Might be an indicator but due to different flocculation properties I would think it might not be that accurate of a representation.

 

[TheHairyHop]

How could they condition with a mix of strains including CBC? It would kill them all off.

 

[melville]

Pretty sure Treehouse has a lab of sorts and I doubt it's that complicated for those guys. There's a simple calculator for it online even. I doubt they do anything just cause it's easy. If it's more difficult but has a positive impact on the beer then it gets done. There is no reason to natural condition with three yeast strains. If CBC-1 is present that is what it is for. Also just because there is a certain ratio of yeast in the cans I don't think that reallly has an exact correlation to the ratio they would use in the production of beer. Might be an indicator but due to different flocculation properties I would think it might not be that accurate of a representation.

I think that given S-04 flocs hard and is still the main component and is a yeast you'd use for the style indicates that it is likely a bigger player in the mix, but I agree, would take some serious trial and error I think to decipher the ratios and the how and when of them being pitched. And of course all of this is to one man's (nate's) taste, and could vary from style to style. I think what's cool about it is taking the concept and applying it to yeasts that aren't Fermentis, 1318 and 3638 for example.

 

[melville]

How could they condition with a mix of strains including CBC? It would kill them all off.

Well I'm assuming F2, that one doesn't say yeast killer. I don't think they are doing this, was sort of just joking, but who thought they were using ANY of the yeasts in this mix.

 

[isomerization]

Well I'm assuming F2, that one doesn't say yeast killer. I don't think they are doing this, was sort of just joking, but who thought they were using ANY of the yeasts in this mix.

There aren't any bad questions, because even those that seem obvious made still worth discussing as it helps reinforce what we "know". I would bet that Fermentis F-2 is pretty much an equivalent of CBC-1, just based on the descriptions. Would have to test that to be sure, but regardless the TH yeast does appear to "out compete" the other strains when grown together.

I think that given S-04 flocs hard and is still the main component and is a yeast you'd use for the style indicates that it is likely a bigger player in the mix, but I agree, would take some serious trial and error I think to decipher the ratios and the how and when of them being pitched. And of course all of this is to one man's (nate's) taste, and could vary from style to style. I think what's cool about it is taking the concept and applying it to yeasts that aren't Fermentis, 1318 and 3638 for example.

Well, it's not really his tastes that have put their damn near entire hoppy lineup into top 10 lists!

 

[melville]

There aren't any bad questions, because even those that seem obvious made still worth discussing as it helps reinforce what we "know". I would bet that Fermentis F-2 is pretty much an equivalent of CBC-1, just based on the descriptions. Would have to test that to be sure, but regardless the TH yeast does appear to "out compete" the other strains when grown together.



Well, it's not really his tastes that have put their damn near entire hoppy lineup into top 10 lists!

Totally think it's worth spitball'n every idea.

Haha, well Nate has great taste that lots of folks agree with. They seem more crafted to me than Trillium (I never get hop burn in TH, but something like DDH Citra Fort Point is intense, green and spicy to me - fantastic - but sort of heavy handed in comparison).

 

[melville]

But still, it doesn't strike anyone else as a bit random that they've settled on S-04, T-58, and WB-06 — all dry yeasts, all Fermentis, none of them particularly highly regarded for their intended styles. It's just so weird. But I will say — this and the discovery that one of my favorite beers of this year (Imaginary Greenscapes by Other Half and Cloudwater) used WLP001 have finally cured me of yeast/ingredient snobbery.

I so want Hill Farmstead to be using S-05.

 

[marshallb]

I think a lot of flavor comes from the grain, and these ingredients shouldn't be ignored. There are plenty of homebrewers who think NL intentionally misleads readers at times with false information. Whether it's true or not, I have no idea, but I also know that writers tend to take creative freedom with what they post on their websites. So it would stand to reason that anything read on the internet about his recipes should be taken with a grain of salt at best.
I started looking up old articles again to find some clues and came across these notes directly from an interview with NL:

"NL: Eureka is my proudest hoppy beer achievement. It’s a beautiful and delicate representation of hops, yet it still has balls. The wheaty, biscuity finish of it is super unique – I love that about it. It’s also the scariest beer for me to brew because any flaws in the process can so easily be exposed in such a delicate beer."

I'd say you won't be able to get flavor descriptors like 'wheaty' and 'biscuity' from a mostly pale malt grain bill.


"NL: The main goal is to learn about and better understand the interplay between certain hop varieties, malt bills, and yeast strains. This knowledge is then used to enhance and improve our existing recipes. Nearly every Curiosity beer has a different grist component. I hear about folks not paying much attention to the malt component of their hoppy beer recipes… In the course of the Curiosity series, I have discovered specialty malts that play well with, and accentuate certain hop varieties. In fact, I think this is a ‘secret’ in a lot of Tree House beers. They all have vastly different malt bills that have developed over time."

And this directly from the TH website which leads me further to believe that Haze is mostly Citra (aside from the flavor being IMO distinctly Citra):

DIRTY WATER (Blonde Ale - 3.9 ABV) - A blast from Tree House’s past! The first beer we ever brewed on our 5 BBL brewhouse in January of 2013 was Dirty Water. As we embark on the next phase of the Tree House journey, we thought it would be fitting to revisit our old friend. We have applied the knowledge gained while brewing hundreds of batches to this old recipe. Brewed with Simcoe, Amarillo, and Citra hops, it pours a gorgeous yellow and the glass and opens up with a potent citrus aroma. The flavor is similar - very grapefruit heavy with a touch of soft tangerine. It’s wonderfully drinkable without sacrificing flavor… Sampling this Monday morning, it drinks a lot like a baby Haze. If you remember Dirty Water, you’ve been with us for a while - and we appreciate that tremendously! If you haven’t, we hope you enjoy this glimpse into the past!

 

[couchsending]

But still, it doesn't strike anyone else as a bit random that they've settled on S-04, T-58, and WB-06 — all dry yeasts, all Fermentis, none of them particularly highly regarded for their intended styles. It's just so weird. But I will say — this and the discovery that one of my favorite beers of this year (Imaginary Greenscapes by Other Half and Cloudwater) used WLP001 have finally cured me of yeast/ingredient snobbery.

I so want Hill Farmstead to be using S-05.

I feel like dry yeasts just have this ****ty perception cause they're cheap and are what a lot of people get in starter kits etc. it's like their for newbs so it's easier to not screw anything up... however they do have their distinct benefits and I would bet with the right coddling you could get them to do whatever you want.

I believe Tired Hands uses S-04 predominantly.

I'm going to split a batch that just finished with dry hop in primary and was fermented with S-04. 2.5g gallons will be primed with heavily late hopped gyle (or speise) and extra T-58. Other 2.5 gallons will be forced carb slow and low for two weeks. Interested to see how the two compare.

This seems the bet way to not lose Hop flavor and/or aroma over the extended period of time that the beer will be carbonating at room temp. You are introducing a significant amount of Hop oils at the end of the process and fermentation is not scrubbing anything off as it's done under pressure in a keg... plus if the biotransformation thing actually happens here's another chance for it to happen much later in the process.

Going to see if my local homebrew shop can order some F-2 through BSG.

And as far as grains go, I have no
Idea what's in the silo but the largest pallets of grain that I saw there were Weyerman Pilsner and I'm 90% sure I saw Munich II (thought for sure it was I, but looked again and it was II). No idea if it was for another beer or not. I think the only darker beer they've released since I was there at beginning of June is TWSS.

 

[melville]

@marshallb

I think one can mostly square what Nate has said concisely on Twitter with his various other statements online. Eureka is a bit weird, it's a blond ale and a blonde grist could go as high 25-30% with wheat. On Twitter he said the only "pale" beer with wheat was curiosity 6.

"“CURIOSITY SIX” (American Pale Ale - 5.4% ABV) - The Curiosity Series returns! For the first time since November in Brimfield we have brewed a beer in the spirit of curiosity. . . Curiosity Six! For this endeavor we took a hefty portion of white wheat and added it to the grist. A generous helping of our favorite citrusy American hops were added to the kettle and fermenter resulting in a vibrant beer with huge flavors of tangerine and other sweet citrus fruit! A velvety smooth mouthfeel, a splash of soft wheat, and dry finish make Curiosity Six a dangerously drinkable treat. We seriously love this one (regular rotation… ?)!"

Interesting, but obviously a "pale" beer (not "blonde"). Also if you look at pics of six on Untappd, it looks more west coast than east coast, a very slight haze. Could be the yeast mix/usage at the time (S-05?).

With the curiosity series, I get the grists are different, and many/most don't detail what they are, I assume because the specialty malts might reveal something about flagships. My point is that a Tree House beer can be made with the grist I mentioned because several have them listed exactly AND they rate just as high as the flagships.

For sure I think there's more than 2-row in some of the core beers, I use Munich/Vienna in mine because back to back comparisons of me vs Julius/others hinted I needed something more... Toasty.

 

[melville]

I feel like dry yeasts just have this ****ty perception cause they're cheap and are what a lot of people get in starter kits etc. it's like their for newbs so it's easier to not screw anything up... however they do have their distinct benefits and I would bet with the right coddling you could get them to do whatever you want.

I believe Tired Hands uses S-04 predominantly.

I'm going to split a batch that just finished with dry hop in primary and was fermented with S-04. 2.5g gallons will be primed with heavily late hopped gyle (or speise) and extra T-58. Other 2.5 gallons will be forced carb slow and low for two weeks. Interested to see how the two compare.

This seems the bet way to not lose Hop flavor and/or aroma over the extended period of time that the beer will be carbonating at room temp. You are introducing a significant amount of Hop oils at the end of the process and fermentation is not scrubbing anything off as it's done under pressure in a keg... plus if the biotransformation thing actually happens here's another chance for it to happen much later in the process.

Going to see if my local homebrew shop can order some F-2 through BSG.

And as far as grains go, I have no
Idea what's in the silo but the largest pallets of grain that I saw there were Weyerman Pilsner and I'm 90% sure I saw Munich II (thought for sure it was I, but looked again and it was II). No idea if it was for another beer or not. I think the only darker beer they've released since I was there at beginning of June is TWSS.

Details on Tired Hands using S-04? That'd be awesome since the rumor is that they use what Hill Farmstead uses, and it would be amazing if Tree House sort of just borrowed what HF did.

I've seen Munich at TH too, as I mentioned above, feel like they use it in Julius and others.

 

[hcb_ryk]

@marshalb
Did you rehydrate your yeast you pitched at 0.5 g/L? Also do you guys oxygenate before pitching?

 

[cegan09]

Again I'll ask... Why do they have those small fermenters at the front near where you stand around to wait for growlers? They're so much considerably smaller than the others.

I'm going Occam's razor here. Remember TH started out really really tiny in some loaned space in a barn. They've been going through some crazy growth, now opening a new larger brewery. I would be willing to bet those small tanks are simply the ones they had from the original space when they were very small.

 

[marshallb]

@marshalb
Did you rehydrate your yeast you pitched at 0.5 g/L? Also do you guys oxygenate before pitching?

No I didn't rehydrate or oxygenate this beer. First pitch was actually about 2g/5gals and the wb06 was bubbling pretty good about 15 hours later. After 24 hours I added 04 and 1.5 grams of t58.

@melville I suppose we'll agree to disagree then. The wonderful thing about brewing beer is, it's all beer.

 

[melville]

@melville I suppose we'll agree to disagree then. The wonderful thing about brewing beer is, it's all beer.

@marshallb trinitybrewers.com right?

 

[couchsending]

I'm going Occam's razor here. Remember TH started out really really tiny in some loaned space in a barn. They've been going through some crazy growth, now opening a new larger brewery. I would be willing to bet those small tanks are simply the ones they had from the original space when they were very small.

I get that... but when brewing on a 30bbl system it seems really weird to utilize those smaller fermenters... maybe not. Most of their fleet is either 30bbl or 60bbl which makes complete sense. I think it just somewhat verifies the blending theory... pull off 10bbls or so and ferment that at whatever temp maximizes the esters you're looking for and then blend back into the larger FV or bright.

 

[Jmash]

Who knows? May be their personal stash

 

[Ruckusz28]

Heads up, I won't be following up with results from my test batches. I had a house fire Saturday evening following brewing (not related). Everybody is safe but it's going to be a while until I get on my feet again.

 

[isomerization]

Heads up, I won't be following up with results from my test batches. I had a house fire Saturday evening following brewing (not related). Everybody is safe but it's going to be a while until I get on my feet again.

Terrible news, but glad everyone is safe.

 

[melville]

Heads up, I won't be following up with results from my test batches. I had a house fire Saturday evening following brewing (not related). Everybody is safe but it's going to be a while until I get on my feet again.

Wow, I'm really sorry to hear this, but thank god everyone is okay.

 

[Ruckusz28]

Thanks all. I should know more after the inspection tomorrow. Looks like I'll be sidelined for a while with brewing.

 

[sag1189]

I get that... but when brewing on a 30bbl system it seems really weird to utilize those smaller fermenters... maybe not. Most of their fleet is either 30bbl or 60bbl which makes complete sense. I think it just somewhat verifies the blending theory... pull off 10bbls or so and ferment that at whatever temp maximizes the esters you're looking for and then blend back into the larger FV or bright.

Their first "large", which is now a pilot system, is 5bbl. 10bbl is a double size FV for that system.

 

[leesmith]

Heads up, I won't be following up with results from my test batches. I had a house fire Saturday evening following brewing (not related). Everybody is safe but it's going to be a while until I get on my feet again.

Sorry to hear.
Glad no one got hurt...
Please keep us posted.

 

[melville]

Sent an email to Fermentis on F2 awhile back, got a response today:

"Thank you for contacting Fermentis.

The F-2 yeast improves the body feel of the beer through the carbonation. The yeast doesn’t add any body to the beer, but adds perceived body due to the natural carbonation. I believe the information is referring to F-2 carbonation versus forced carbonating beer. There could be a small amount of release from the strain which would slightly add body to the beer, but that isn’t the target for this strain.

If you simply add the F-2 to a beer, you will not see any real difference. There is a need for the secondary fermentation for you to see any difference. If you are kegging the beer, you can keg condition: what we refer to as cask conditioning. For this strain, we recommend 2-7g per hL, so for a 5 gallon batch you would need:

5gallons = 18.9271L 100/18.9271= 5.2834…. meaning that our recommended pitch rate for 5 gallons would be 2/5.2834 to 7/5.2834 which equals 0.3785-1.3249g"

 

[The_Dirty_Spring]

I've been following this post closely since its first days (thanks @isomerization!), and have one more data point to share related to combining use of these yeasts.

I used my standard NEIPA grist and fermented with S-04, starting at 65F and ramping up to 70F to finish. I then racked to a keg (with floating intake/dip tube) and pitched T-58 (quarter pack) and WB-06 (small amount kraeusen) along with DME wort calculated to produce 2.2 vol.

Probably should have given those yeasts enough time to activate fermentation before pitching into the finished beer, but in this case I went right into the keg with 2oz dry hops, carb'd up around 70F for one week, then dry hopped 3 more oz and into fridge with just a little extra gas. While no sign of oxidation, I also did not get any perceptible expression of the later yeast additions. I'm assuming this is because some combination of A) the S-04 was far more prevalent, B) temp was too low to generate the esters, C) the secondary/carb up is just not enough activity--and they need to be included in primary. Otherwise the beer was good, but just nowhere near the juice I was looking to squeeze out of the Simcoe and Galaxy.

I intend to target 50/35/15 yeast ratios for primary next time, and probably let it ferment a little warmer. Comments welcomed.

Just a couple observations of TH processes, based on some comments above. First, Nate has said 18-21 days grain to glass for the IPAs. Second, we can't overestimate how complex his process is; Nate supposedly still brews every single batch. Third, just my opinion, they play significantly with these yeast ratios beer to beer. Bright has gotta be US-05 only. Julius and its family is some mix S-04 with heavy WB-06 and maybe T-58. Green and Sap have less of those esters, while Eureka (my favorite) is loaded with them for its size.

Mike, sorry to hear about the fire

 

[butter08]

This thread has been one of the best I have read in a while. A few people planned to ferment using the split yeast. Has anyone finished out their fermentation yet? I would love to hear the results.


Oops, there was a response that came in as I wrote this!

 

[melville]

I've been following this post closely since its first days (thanks @isomerization!), and have one more data point to share related to combining use of these yeasts.

I used my standard NEIPA grist and fermented with S-04, starting at 65F and ramping up to 70F to finish. I then racked to a keg (with floating intake/dip tube) and pitched T-58 (quarter pack) and WB-06 (small amount kraeusen) along with DME wort calculated to produce 2.2 vol.

Next time I will give those yeasts enough time to activate fermentation before pitching into the finished beer, but in this case I went right into the keg with 2oz dry hops, carb'd up around 70F for one week, then dry hopped 3 more oz and into fridge with just a little extra gas. While no sign of oxidation, I also did not get any perceptible expression of the later yeast additions. I'm assuming this is because some combination of A) the S-04 was far more prevalent, B) temp was too low to generate the esters, C) the secondary/carb up is just not enough activity--and they need to be included in primary. Otherwise the beer was good, but just nowhere near the juice I was looking to squeeze out of the Simcoe and Galaxy.

I intend to target 50/35/15 yeast ratios for primary next time, and probably let it ferment a little warmer. Comments welcomed.

Just a couple observations of TH processes, based on some comments above. First, Nate has said 18-21 days grain to glass for the IPAs. Second, we can't overestimate how complex his process is; Nate supposedly still brews every single batch. Third, just my opinion, they play significantly with these yeast ratios beer to beer. Bright has gotta be US-05 only. Julius and its family is some mix S-04 with heavy WB-06 and maybe T-58. Green and Sap have less of those esters, while Eureka (my favorite) is loaded with them for its size.

Mike, sorry to hear about the fire

In your ratio, is "35" for WB-06? Outside of separately fermenting these guys, I'm not clear what is bringing what between WB-06 and T-58. (I think T-58 brings some mouthfeel and WB-06 brings the esters that when combined with everything else makes for what we think is their yeast character, but that could be totally opposite — I've never used a hefe strain before and I am dumb).

 

[melville]

This thread has been one of the best I have read in a while. A few people planned to ferment using the split yeast. Has anyone finished out their fermentation yet? I would love to hear the results.


Oops, there was a response that came in as I wrote this!

I might be the closest, carbing up as we speak. Will probably pour a glass Friday evening to see how it's going.