IPA gone bad...

[lumberteria]

I'm not exactly a beginner but I feel like one as I haven't brewed in 9 years until this summer. My first batch, about 3 months ago, was a pale ale clone that turned out OK.

But my next batch a few weeks later... it just didn’t work. I tried to brew a clone of what is probably my favorite beer of all-time, Russian River Blind Pig IPA.

The grain bill for the Blind Pig clone…
Malt – 2-row pale malt (7 lb.), C-40 (1/2 lb.), Cara Pils (1/2 lb.), and white wheat (1/4 lb.).
Boiling Hops – Chinook, Columbus, and Cascade.
Finishing Hops – Cascade, Amarillo, and Simcoe.
Dry Hops – Cascade, Amarillo, Simcoe, and Centennial.
Yeast – Wyeast American Ale 1056

After fermenting about 2 weeks in a carboy and another 3 weeks in the bottle, the carbonation is adequate enough to make it drinkable, but it is far from an IPA. It looks and tastes more like a brown ale. Perhaps even a Schwarzbier. Very dark. And while I have very little sediment in the bottle, you cannot see through this beer at all. It looks more like coffee. For color I was expecting about a 9 or 10 on the SRM chart but it is closer to 31 or 32.

Taste-wise I get mostly malt and very little hop taste. Also, there does not seem to be a great deal of alcohol in this beer. The target OG was 1.067 and target FG was 1.017. I forgot to get an actual OG but my actual FG was 1.006. The alcohol content is supposed to be about 6.5%. Normally, 24 to 36 oz. of a 6.5% beer will give me a little bit of a buzz. I can have 2 or 3 of these and nothing happens.

On my next batch I will pay extra attention to all of the normal things and make sure everything is clean and sanitized, etc., but I was just wondering if anybody has any other not-so-obvious suggestions for me. Thanks.

 

[petrolSpice]

What was the batch size? For a 5 gallon batch that's not very much grain for most beers, certainly not an IPA.
How much hops did you use?
Mash temp?

 

[PADave]

For 5 gallon, you're not getting 1.067 out of 8 pounds of grain. What was your batch size? Mash technique?

 

[GPP33]

Can you detail your hop schedule? As for color maybe you ended up with an incorrect grain, C80 instead of C40 maybe?

 

[kev211]

Ditto to the process comments. Even if you doubled the grain bill I still don't see this beer ending up at more than 8 SRM. So something's not right here. What was your mash temp? Fermentation temp? Bottling process? Hop schedule? Give us everything you've got on this batch of beer

 

[FatDragon]

Depending on your batch size, your OG was probably quite a bit lower than you expected, thus the lower perceived ABV.

The color and malt profile are probably due to some of the wrong grains getting into your brew. How did you source the malt bill? Are you sure you didn't end up with something completely different from what you were expecting, or maybe even order multiple kits and brew the wrong one or get the ingredient bags mixed up?

Depending on the freshness of the hops and various other factors, your brew may or may not even come close to being as hoppy as you were hoping, but another possibility is that you're drinking it too cold. I screwed up big time on my last APA, way overdoing the bittering hops, underdoing the flavor/aroma hops, and using hops that were stored at HOT temperatures for an indeterminate amount of time as my beer and hops fridge got unplugged sometime over the summer while I was away. The first several I drank confirmed my fears: way too bitter and almost no hoppiness. Last night I ran one under the hot water tap for ten seconds before opening, bringing it from 'cold' to 'lightly chilled'. It was a whole different beer: the hops aroma and flavor were still a bit shy of target but ten times what I was detecting in the cold samples, and the bitterness was less biting as well. It went from a 3/10 to probably a 6.5/10 over the course of about fifteen degrees Fahrenheit. A Miller Lite tastes better the closer it gets to absolute zero, but for hoppy beers (and many others as well), 50F/10C is far better than the 34F/1C fridge temp.

 

[Atlmustang]

I agree with the above. My house IPA has a grain bill of:

1.) 12.75 Lbs. 2 Row
2.) 12.8 oz - Carafoam
3.) 12.8 oz - Cara-pils

So that's almost 14 pounds of grain opposed to your grain bill of 8.25 pounds, which is as others have suggested way short for a 5 gallon batch. My recipe is also scaled for a full-bodied BIAB method. The SRM on my beer is 9.43. IBU's are 78.51 OG is 1.079 FG is 1.015 ABV is 8.4%. Now, in practice with BIAB not being as efficient, I usually end up at OG 1.060 and GF of 1.015, so about 6%, which is good because I don't need nearly 9% IPA's floating around.

I recommend the beersmith 2 app on your phone for scaling recipes to fit your equipment.

 

[V-Fib]

quick goolge search:

For 5 gallons

9.8 lb. (4.44 kg) pale two-row malt
6.5 oz. (184 g) 40° L crystal malt
5.0 oz. (142 g) dextrin malt
0.25 oz. (7 g) Columbus pellets, 16% A.A. (90 min.)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Chinook pellets, 13% A.A. (90 min.)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Amarillo pellets, 7.5% A.A. (30 min.)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Cascade pellets, 5.75% A.A. (0 min.)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Amarillo pellets, 7.5 % A.A. (0 min.)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Centennial pellets, 10.5 % A.A. (0 min.)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Simcoe pellets, 13% A.A. (0 min.)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Cascade pellets, 5.75% A.A. (dry)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Amarillo pellets, 7.5% A.A. (dry)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Columbus pellets, 16% A.A. (dry)
White Labs WLP001 California Ale Yeast or Wyeast 1056 American Ale


Specifications

Original Gravity: 1.057
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV: 6.1%
IBU: 62

Directions

Mash grains at 153–154° F (67–68° C) for one hour.

Ferment at 68° F (20° C). After primary fermentation, dry hop with a blend of Columbus, Amarillo, and Cascade pellets and hold for 10 days.

Not sure how close this is to yours

 

[dwhite60]

Wrong malt.

My bet is you got Munich, Vienna, or something similar but not pale malt. This would also account for the extra "maltiness" in the flavor. You'll get lower extract per pound out of Munich/Vienna than you will pale malt too thus the lower alcohol content.

Possibly got some 120L crystal instead of 40L but even 1/2 pound of that should not have made a beer this dark.

Check with your supplier about the malt.

All the best,
D. White

 

[lumberteria]

Man, you guys are awesome. I really appreciate all the input.

V-Fib, I did see that recipe from Zymurgy but my recipe was from TheBrewingNetwork.com, mainly because they said they had some direct input from Vinnie. Recipe is below. I mashed for an hour at 153 deg.

This recipe was for 5.7 gal. but I only have a 5 gal. brew kettle which means 3-4 gal. batches. So I tried to divide that recipe down to 2/3. But I can see now that a big problem is that I accidentally halved the base malt, using 7 lbs. of the 2-row.

I also think it is entirely possible that I didn't even get 2-row. I got the grain at a serve-yourself type place where you pour and weigh your own grain. It was my first time there and I needed help to navigate their process. And the guy helping me was going back-and-forth as he was also holding a brewing class at the same time.

Final question... would too little grain (not to mention if is was the wrong grain) contribute to my hops under-performing?

Blind Pig (TheBrewingNetwork.com)
Size: 5.7 gal
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 224.42 per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.067 (1.056 - 1.075)
Terminal Gravity: 1.017 (1.010 - 1.018)
Color: 8.0 (6.0 - 15.0)
Alcohol: 6.63% (5.5% - 7.5%)
Bitterness: 82.74 (40.0 - 60.0)

Ingredients:
1.5 oz Chinook (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
0.5 oz Cascade (5.8%) - added during boil, boiled 30.0 min
1.0 oz Cascade (5.8%) - added during boil, boiled 15.0 min
0.5 oz Amarillo (8.5%) - added during boil, boiled 2.0 min
0.5 oz Simcoe (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 2.0 min
0.25 oz Amarillo (8.5%) - added dry to primary fermenter
0.25 oz Simcoe (13.0%) - added dry to primary fermenter
0.5 oz Cascade (5.5%) - added dry to primary fermenter
1.0 oz Centennial (10.0%) - added dry to primary fermenter
13.0 lbs Pale Malt(2-row)
0.5 lbs Wheat Malt
0.5 lbs Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt
0.5 lbs Crystal 40L
1 Unit Whirlfloc - added during boil, boiled 10.0 min

 

[kev211]

Man, you guys are awesome. I really appreciate all the input.

V-Fib, I did see that recipe from Zymurgy but my recipe was from TheBrewingNetwork.com, mainly because they said they had some direct input from Vinnie. Recipe is below. I mashed for an hour at 153 deg.

This recipe was for 5.7 gal. but I only have a 5 gal. brew kettle which means 3-4 gal. batches. So I tried to divide that recipe down to 2/3. But I can see now that a big problem is that I accidentally halved the base malt, using 7 lbs. of the 2-row.

I also think it is entirely possible that I didn't even get 2-row. I got the grain at a serve-yourself type place where you pour and weigh your own grain. It was my first time there and I needed help to navigate their process. And the guy helping me was going back-and-forth as he was also holding a brewing class at the same time.

Final question... would too little grain (not to mention if is was the wrong grain) contribute to my hops under-performing?

I don't think it would cause them to "under perform". However, if it was a really malty grain like Munich, Vienna or victory (in comparison to 2-row) it may mask the hop flavor. Also, I think for a beer with that intended og I would have doubled or tripled those dry hops

 

[FatDragon]

If you got the wrong base malt, it was probably Munich and not Vienna as someone else suggested - Vienna is maltier than regular 2-row, but not significantly darker.

Your recipe has a long list of hops so it looks like it should be very hoppy, but the amounts are almost all small so in reality it's just 6 oz in 5 gallons, so if you reduced to 2/3 then you only used 4 oz in a 3-4 gallon batch, which is pretty light for an IPA. Doubling all the hop additions after the 15 minute Cascade shot would get you a decent hop bomb, but at minimum I would suggest keeping the full 6 oz of hops from the 5 gallon recipe in a 3-4 gallon clone.

A couple other thoughts:

If the hops weren't stored well at the LHBS, they could have been a bit stale and lost a lot of their aroma.

As I mentioned in my previous response, if you haven't tried a bottle at warmer ~50F/10C temps, you might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

 

[kristiismean]

all the above are probably right. Wrong grain.

your grainbill shows me 4% abv. I mean, it has alcohol. even with the heavy malt taste, is it drinkable?

 

[lumberteria]

Yes, the good news is it's drinkable. So, I'm going to pop one open and go order a 10 gal. brew kettle. Then tomorrow I'm going back to my original brew shop where they measure the grain and the hops come in vacuum packs. I'll give it another shot next weekend and then update this thread once I'm able to evalute the results. Thanks all.

 

[kristiismean]

What I would do, and this is just me. Anyone can make a 8% IPA or Pale Ale that is good (not great, good), making a 4% that you want to drink is hard... I bounce out in the spring a 3.24% Citra "IPA" that people gravitate towards. They swear it's 5% or higher. (it also has to bottle age for a month or 2 to be drinkable) Tweek your recipe and make a great session beer.