No. A commercial beer served on his keg serving system.
I'm losing my mind over this
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No. A commercial beer served on his keg serving system.
I'm sorry, but your assumptions are just wrong. If you pitch Brett or Lacto, it WILL take time to taste it. It does not start contributing flavors immediately. And YES, this is why sours take time to age and for the flavor to develop. You asked for advice and I'm telling you a few things I know. I don't brew sours, but am part of a brew club with 200+ members. Many do brew sours. They would 100% agree that wild yeast and intentionally added yeast, like Brett, will take time to impart flavor. I have no intention of scouring the internet for evidence to prove this to you. Either believe or don't.... or better yet do some research yourself since you already stated you wont believe what anyone on here says... even though you are looking for advice?!?! Do you see the issue here?
ja09
Well-Known Member
dobe12, I feel your pain. I'm an extremely calm and laid back person, but this thread actually makes me angry. There has been so much great advice from very experienced brewers, and instead of being appreciative, the OP publicly wipes his a$$ with it.
LovesIPA, do you seriously not understand why everyone hates this thread and trying to help you? Is it the same reason you don't understand how to troubleshoot your "issue"?
I started following this like 4 months ago when I was having pretty much the exact same issue... IPA's were turning into the same blah taste after a week or so in the keg, and tasted excellent out of the fermentor. In my case, it was the gelatin. Once I removed that from the process, everything went back to normal. Still not sure if it was bad gelatin or the way I was using it. This took about 2 weeks to correct.
Your issue is clearly one or two things... your water profile (and possible ph issues), or your kegging equipment/process. But since you refuse to use spring water and bottle a few from the batch, I guess you'll never find out.
Infections take a lot longer than a few days to go from "tastes great out of the fermentor!" to "oh no it's infected", ESPECIALLY IF REFRIGERATED. I would provide you with evidence and sources, but if you can't find them yourself, you're doomed to make **** beer the rest of your life.
You don't even need to bottle a batch, just a few from the fermentor and keg the rest. How in the world have you not done this after 20 or so suggestions in this thread?
One more question, then I'm going to throw my computer out the window. Did you seriously change the recipe on the guy that was nice enough to give you the water profile, recipe, and pay for your shipping to send him some to compare with his?
Until next time, keep embarrassing yourself with this thread.
LovesIPA, do you seriously not understand why everyone hates this thread and trying to help you? Is it the same reason you don't understand how to troubleshoot your "issue"?
I started following this like 4 months ago when I was having pretty much the exact same issue... IPA's were turning into the same blah taste after a week or so in the keg, and tasted excellent out of the fermentor. In my case, it was the gelatin. Once I removed that from the process, everything went back to normal. Still not sure if it was bad gelatin or the way I was using it. This took about 2 weeks to correct.
Your issue is clearly one or two things... your water profile (and possible ph issues), or your kegging equipment/process. But since you refuse to use spring water and bottle a few from the batch, I guess you'll never find out.
Infections take a lot longer than a few days to go from "tastes great out of the fermentor!" to "oh no it's infected", ESPECIALLY IF REFRIGERATED. I would provide you with evidence and sources, but if you can't find them yourself, you're doomed to make **** beer the rest of your life.
You don't even need to bottle a batch, just a few from the fermentor and keg the rest. How in the world have you not done this after 20 or so suggestions in this thread?
One more question, then I'm going to throw my computer out the window. Did you seriously change the recipe on the guy that was nice enough to give you the water profile, recipe, and pay for your shipping to send him some to compare with his?
Until next time, keep embarrassing yourself with this thread.
LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
Brewer's yeast takes days to impart flavor in beer, but literally every other micro-organism known to man takes weeks if not months to do the same thing. Do you see why this is hard to believe?
One issue is that you like to put words in my mouth and/or intentionally misinterpret my posts so you can claim I'm the problem. The other issue is how defensive you are because I am skeptical of your claims, even when your claims directly contradict physical evidence.
Do you (or anyone else) who doesn't believe this is an infection have any thoughts on either one of these questions yet?
What are you talking about? What physical evidence? You admit knowing nothing about sours. I'm simply telling you what I know and have no intention of spending the time to give you documented evidence to prove it. If you want that, look it up yourself. There's this great search engine called google. Type the words "Sour beers" and see what you find.
I'm not saying what is or isn't your beer problem (but I think I have an idea and it ain't the beer). All I'm saying is infections DO take time to impart flavor. It does not happen in 2-3 days. Brett, lacto, pedio, take some time to do their thing. It's not instant or even done in days. I'm seriously imploring you to do a little of your own research and look into it yourself. You have an idea in your head that has absolutely no physical evidence to prove, but yet you refuse to believe me because I'm not producing physical evidence.
LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
Please tell me where I said that.
ja09
Well-Known Member
OP, you have no idea what you're talking about.
If he wants physical evidence, here you go. I don't think it will get any more "physical" than this...
Berliner Weisse fermented with 100% WLP677 at ~90* for 7 days. Absolutely no sour/lacto taste after 7 days, backed up by my ph meter, or "physical evidence" as you so eloquently put it.
After 4 months, the sourness starts to come out and the pellicle forms.
Motherf*****, why am I still wasting my time with this d-bag thread.
Ok, OP, this thread is getting quite long and difficult to follow! Maybe you could do a recap and list the changes you've made to combat this problem, and what the results were?
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JuanMoore
Getting the banned back together
That's a terrible analogy. Brewers yeast takes only a few days to impart flavor when several hundred billion cells are added to 5 gal of wort. Reduce the pitching rate to that of a few hundred or even thousand cells hiding in the scratches in the plastic, and it takes much much longer for the cells to multiply enough to impart any noticeable flavor to the beer. Pitch a yeast vial full of bacteria in your beer, and you might be able to taste it instantly.
There are a few types of bacteria that create compounds with low enough taste thresholds that a flavor is imparted relatively quickly, but unless you're leaving large chunks of infected materials in your transfer equipment, it's highly unlikely that you'd taste anything after only a couple days from the time of infection.
So I am fairly certain that the Glacier brand reverse osmosis water is indeed filtered using reverse osmosis but then they add their own make up of minerals for taste since they sell it as drinking water. Perhaps when you add extra minerals to their water there is an excess of minerals which may give an odd flavor when carbonated. I am certainly no expert and just getting into home brewing but I know that most filtered water companies add minerals to their water for taste. Maybe you could try bottled spring water with no additives.
ja09
Well-Known Member
Thank you Juan! So glad to see someone with your wealth of knowledge and experience contribute to this thread.
OP, if you disagree with Juan, or somehow think you know more than him, you should be banned from brewing for life.
dadshomebrew
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As frustrating as this thread is, especially for all those who have been offering some great advice, I just cant help but keep reading it.
Whats the phrase ...."it is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument"....
Whats the phrase ...."it is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument"....
ja09
Well-Known Member
This sounds like a very reasonable possibility and a GREAT suggestion. The OP has denied it's a water profile issue about 100 times in this thread, and from what I've read, refuses to try spring water with no additions, refuses to try an extract batch, and refuses to bottle some of the batch. It's a very real possibility it's a water issue compounded by the co2 in his system. He's convinced it's an infection and completely blind to any other possibilities or advice.
This is exactly what I went through last year. There was a weird flavor that I couldn't describe. It was undetectable out of the carboy but as soon as it carbed up, the flavor would creep back in. It seemed reasonable at first to think it was some sort of weird infection but troubleshooting that route didn't work. As soon as I changed my water source, the problem was fixed.
I explained my issue in more detail in another thread. The member who started the other thread is also in Cali (Same as OP), and has been experiencing issues since October (Same as OP).
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/5-years-into-great-hobby-i-feel-like-giving-up-460902/
OP, you have no idea what you're talking about.
If he wants physical evidence, here you go. I don't think it will get any more "physical" than this...
Berliner Weisse fermented with 100% WLP677 at ~90* for 7 days. Absolutely no sour/lacto taste after 7 days, backed up by my ph meter, or "physical evidence" as you so eloquently put it.
After 4 months, the sourness starts to come out and the pellicle forms.
Motherf*****, why am I still wasting my time with this d-bag thread.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!
I feel silly for trying so hard to help this guy out and teach him something. Let him continue to deal with a problem he can't diagnose.
I just discovered this thread today. I'm going to go back and read it from the start to get an idea of what's going on. The water chemistry stuff alone seems completely odd. I mean, when skimming it, it seems like he never bottled a batch, doesn't use a pH meter, doesn't understand why / how to make additions to his water, never had the base water profile tested to confirm it doesn't already have stuff added for flavor, never used distilled water and built from there, never posted his attached bru'n water sheet for people to look at... is most of that accurate?
LovesIPA, this is my conclusion, for what it is worth:
It is not a sanitation of infection issue. Your are convinced it is, so you have banged your head against the wall and ruined countless batches of beer trying to troubleshoot a problem that doesn't exist because you convinced yourself of the problem early on and never looked back.
This is a water issue. Plain and simple. I noticed you're from California. Let me direct you to this article:
WATER VENDING MACHINES TARGETED BY LAWSUIT
In summary, Glacier RO water vending machines in your area are a complete crap-shoot, and 1/3 of all those tested failed to meet safe standard with regard to chemicals. In fact, a lot of the water tested exceeded the state recommended levels for trihalomethanes, which are a byproduct from treating water with CHLORINE. WHAT? Chlorine in your RO water? SAY IT AIN'T SO!
You're brewing with crappy water. Brew a batch with distilled, make some moderate additions to build up the profile if you like, continue your current sanitation practices, and finally put this behind you.
It is not a sanitation of infection issue. Your are convinced it is, so you have banged your head against the wall and ruined countless batches of beer trying to troubleshoot a problem that doesn't exist because you convinced yourself of the problem early on and never looked back.
This is a water issue. Plain and simple. I noticed you're from California. Let me direct you to this article:
WATER VENDING MACHINES TARGETED BY LAWSUIT
In summary, Glacier RO water vending machines in your area are a complete crap-shoot, and 1/3 of all those tested failed to meet safe standard with regard to chemicals. In fact, a lot of the water tested exceeded the state recommended levels for trihalomethanes, which are a byproduct from treating water with CHLORINE. WHAT? Chlorine in your RO water? SAY IT AIN'T SO!
You're brewing with crappy water. Brew a batch with distilled, make some moderate additions to build up the profile if you like, continue your current sanitation practices, and finally put this behind you.
LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
I know the thread is long, so I'm not going to give you a hard time for not following it all, but I did brew a batch with distilled water. I added gypsum to the water and nothing else.
In other words, I used a COMPLETELY different water source. And I got the same results.
Well, I never claimed I did... but you and JuanMoore have provided a pretty compelling argument that I'm wrong.
I did try distilled water with gypsum. Same result.
I've been following that thread as well.
Again... brewed a batch with distilled water. Same horrible flavor.
Let me say this again:
I BREWED A BATCH WITH DISTILLED WATER. I ADDED ONLY GYPSUM AND I STILL HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM.
So if it's not an infection, and completely changing the water source didn't solve the problem, what is going on???
I was thinking about buying a TDS meter. Is this an effective tool for determining how close to "pure" the water is? If the water is really RO with no minerals added back in for flavor, it should read pretty low on the scale, right? Am I understanding how these things work?
I'm sorry if folks are frustrated - I'm frustrated too.
Well, I must have missed that in the thread. My eyes glazed over a few times and resorted to skimming. My bad. I just deleted another post I made about water quality, so ignore that too if you saw it.
Just for giggles, and since I don't want to do any work today, can you post the grain bill for the recipe you made with distilled water, along with the amount of sparge and strike water, any additions, and their amounts, that you made to each?
And also, before I jump to conclusions, did you bottle any of the distilled water batch, or just keg it all?
LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
To recap:
- Batches were tasting fine out of the fermenter but after a few days in the keg, they would develop a gross sour/sweet flavor and aroma that almost completely overtook/replaced hop flavor and aroma. Initially the consensus was that I wasn't cleaning the kegs well enough. I was using cold water and Oxyclean. I switched to using hot tap water and PBW, and also soaking the top outside of the keg as part of the cleaning process.
- Some batches were becoming infected while dry-hopping. I used large stainless mesh tea balls that are supposed to be used for infusing flavor into soups. I thought they would work well for dry-hopping. I cleaned and sanitized well, and used them in a batch. After a week, there was a thick white pellicle spreading out from around the floating tea balls.
- Then I tried boiling a sewn-together paint strainer bag and using that to dry hop. Even though I thought I was extremely careful, that batch developed a pellicle within a week also.
- Someone figured out that the dry hop related infections were the result of opening the fermenters in the same room where I store and weigh out grains. Since the grains are covered in lacto bacteria, just the act of me walking through the room was kicking up enough dust to get into the fermenter during the time it was open. I have since stopped storing any beer at all in that room and I have not had a batch become infected during dry-hopping since.
- Now most of my buckets have had infected batches in them at one point or another, and since then every beer has come out of the fermenter tasting terrible.
- On February 17th, I brewed a batch of a Mosaic IPA using distilled water and gypsum. I also bought a brand new fermenter for this batch. The beer tasted great out of the fermenter. I racked it with an auto-siphon that had come into contact with infected batches and within a couple days in the keg it developed the same flavor.
- I practice (I think?) good sanitation. Everything is thoroughly cleaned after use, and soaked in star-san before being used again. Everything that comes apart goes back together wet with star-san. I purge the kegs with CO2 like you're supposed to. I cover the keg mouth with a sanitized paper towel during racking. I purge the keg with CO2 again after racking.
I've watched youtube videos, spent hours on this forum reading, read books, and I swear to you I do the same stuff everyone else is doing.
- Batches were tasting fine out of the fermenter but after a few days in the keg, they would develop a gross sour/sweet flavor and aroma that almost completely overtook/replaced hop flavor and aroma. Initially the consensus was that I wasn't cleaning the kegs well enough. I was using cold water and Oxyclean. I switched to using hot tap water and PBW, and also soaking the top outside of the keg as part of the cleaning process.
- Some batches were becoming infected while dry-hopping. I used large stainless mesh tea balls that are supposed to be used for infusing flavor into soups. I thought they would work well for dry-hopping. I cleaned and sanitized well, and used them in a batch. After a week, there was a thick white pellicle spreading out from around the floating tea balls.
- Then I tried boiling a sewn-together paint strainer bag and using that to dry hop. Even though I thought I was extremely careful, that batch developed a pellicle within a week also.
- Someone figured out that the dry hop related infections were the result of opening the fermenters in the same room where I store and weigh out grains. Since the grains are covered in lacto bacteria, just the act of me walking through the room was kicking up enough dust to get into the fermenter during the time it was open. I have since stopped storing any beer at all in that room and I have not had a batch become infected during dry-hopping since.
- Now most of my buckets have had infected batches in them at one point or another, and since then every beer has come out of the fermenter tasting terrible.
- On February 17th, I brewed a batch of a Mosaic IPA using distilled water and gypsum. I also bought a brand new fermenter for this batch. The beer tasted great out of the fermenter. I racked it with an auto-siphon that had come into contact with infected batches and within a couple days in the keg it developed the same flavor.
- I practice (I think?) good sanitation. Everything is thoroughly cleaned after use, and soaked in star-san before being used again. Everything that comes apart goes back together wet with star-san. I purge the kegs with CO2 like you're supposed to. I cover the keg mouth with a sanitized paper towel during racking. I purge the keg with CO2 again after racking.
I've watched youtube videos, spent hours on this forum reading, read books, and I swear to you I do the same stuff everyone else is doing.
LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
Grain bill:
8 lbs 1.2 oz 2-row
1 lb 1.3 oz Biscuit malt
14.4 oz Munich malt
6.1 oz Crystal 20
3.2 oz Special B
2.5 oz Crystal 40
Total: 10.73 lbs
The water was distilled water. I used 3.5 gallons of strike water. I added 3 teaspoons of gypsum and 0.3 ml lactic acid. I mashed for an hour at 152. I fly-sparged with 5.4 gallons of water. The sparge water had 3 teaspoons of gypsum and 0.3 ml lactic acid added.
Hop schedule:
1.00 oz of Mosaic FWH
0.50 oz of Mosaic at 60 min
1.00 oz of Mosaic at 30 min
1.00 oz of Mosaic at 15 min
1.00 oz of Mosaic at 5 min
1.00 oz of Mosaic at flameout
I chilled, racked to a cleaned and sanitized fermenter, and fermented at 64 for four days with a rehydrated packet of US-05. Then I added 2 oz of Mosaic to the fermenter. It sat at about 68 for another week before I cold-crashed it and racked to a cleaned and sanitized keg.
I did not bottle any of the batch.
ja09
Well-Known Member
Grain bill:
8 lbs 1.2 oz 2-row
1 lb 1.3 oz Biscuit malt
14.4 oz Munich malt
6.1 oz Crystal 20
3.2 oz Special B
2.5 oz Crystal 40
Total: 10.73 lbs
Hop schedule:
1.00 oz of Mosaic FWH
0.50 oz of Mosaic at 60 min
1.00 oz of Mosaic at 30 min
1.00 oz of Mosaic at 15 min
1.00 oz of Mosaic at 5 min
1.00 oz of Mosaic at flameout
I chilled, racked to a cleaned and sanitized fermenter, and fermented at 64 for four days with a rehydrated packet of US-05. Then I added 2 oz of Mosaic to the fermenter. It sat at about 68 for another week before I cold-crashed it and racked to a cleaned and sanitized keg.
I did not bottle any of the batch.
Personally, I think that recipe would look a lot better exactly the way it is, minus the biscuit and special b. You're going to want a simpler, less complex grain bill when diagnosing the problem. Plus, are you sure the mosaic is a good quality and fresh? If not, that recipe would not come out very well.
Also, it sounds like your dry hopping right after pitching, is that true?
LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
I wish I could explain how drastic the change in flavor is. This batch smelled and tasted amazing when I kegged it. Now I don't even want to drink it. It's not like an off-flavor that you can taste if you're looking for it. It's a dramatic change in flavor. I see what you're saying about a simple grain bill but it's not like adding the special B or biscuit could possibly account for what I'm tasting.
I just bought the hops a couple weeks ago. I buy them by the pound from Bell's general store. The hops for that batch were right out of an unopened 1-lb bag.
No it's not. Normally I wait at least a week to dry hop but the poster that gave me this recipe and water profile said that I should dry-hop it as the krausen began to fall.
ja09
Well-Known Member
Please, please revert to my post weeks ago, and probably many others before mine.
Sorry to say it, but you're at the point where you have to completely start over with extract, spring water, and bottle some.
Since you live by bells, NB Dead Ringer kit is a great option.
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Sorry to say it, but you're at the point where you have to completely start over with extract, spring water, and bottle some.
Since you live by bells, NB Dead Ringer kit is a great option.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Home Brew mobile app
Okay, so here's one issue: You're using a total of 6 tsp of Gypsum which is equal to 24 grams. In 8.9 gallons of distilled water, that gives you close to 400 ppm sulfate. Even in an IPA, that's going to give you off flavors. But it gets worse from there. After boiling for an hour and losing about 1.4 gallons, you've further concentrated the amount of sulfates and now have close to 500 ppm sulfate in your beer. THAT is going to give you bad flavors. My guess is these bad flavors are accentuated by the CO2. I have nothing to back that up, and perhaps someone else can talk more about that? Regardless, 500 PPM is too high.
Secondly, after entering your grain bill, strike water amount, and mash water amounts into Bru'n Water, along with your stated water additions, your mash pH comes out as 4.8. WAY too low! And I have read that a low mash pH can cause off-flavors. Some have said sour off-flavors, which you mention. But I'll have to look into that some more. Regardless, your mash pH is WAY too low.
So my guess is you're going to get the same bad flavors if you bottle. It's not the keg, it's not sanitation, and it's not infection. In this particular recipe, you had WAY too many sulfates (500 ppm in the final product) and a mash pH that was far too low and could also be creating off flavors.
According to your grain bill and distilled water, to achieve proper pH levels for your mash and an acceptable calcium and sulfate level in your beer for a highly-hopped IPA, this should be your additions:
STRIKE WATER, 3.5 GALLONS:
3.5 grams Gypsum (not even a full tsp)
SPARGE WATER, 5.4 GALLONS:
5.4 grams Gypsum
1 ml lactic acid 88%
That's it. Your mash pH will be right where you want it, your sulfates and calcium will be at very good levels (Ca ~60, Sulfate ~150)
My advice:
1. Buy a scale like this one. It's easier to weigh the additions out after getting the recommended amount from the Bru'n water sheet.
2. Buy a pH meter. Test strips are not accurate enough.
Last edited by a moderator:
ja09
Well-Known Member
What a good post with some great advice MrHadack! OP, do you see the time and effort people are putting into YOUR problem... all because you're too bull headed to have this solved months ago.
However MrHadack, water profiles and ph adjustments are advanced brewing techniques, and the op has proven many different times he's not ready for that level of brewing. Keep it simple and build from there.
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However MrHadack, water profiles and ph adjustments are advanced brewing techniques, and the op has proven many different times he's not ready for that level of brewing. Keep it simple and build from there.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Home Brew mobile app
Now, hold up a second. Perhaps because I am joining this thread after months of frustration endured by others I have a bit more optimism, but this seems like an easy fix. A good pH meter will run $80-100. The scale is only $10-20. A quick lesson on how to use the Bru'n water sheet properly and this problem might be solved.
ja09
Well-Known Member
Yes, it would be an easy fix, for any rational person. You don't know who you're dealing with here.
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LovesIPA, one of the big take-aways here is that additions to the water should vary greatly depending upon the style of beer you're brewing as well as the types of grain you're using. Roasted grains and crystal malts are acidic and will drive down the pH of the mash. You have a few of those in the recipe you just posted, which is partly why your pH dropped so low.
The way to use the spreadsheet is to enter your grain bill on the "mash acidification" tab, including the Lovibond number for each grain, as well as whether it is a base malt, crystal, or roast. The sheet will then be able to predict the pH of the mash properly. Once you see what the distilled water and grain is without any additions, you can use the sheet to add various additions to get the Ca and Sulfates where you want them, while making sure the pH hits the number you want.
Additionally, sparge water should be under 6 pH. That's why the sheet calculates it separately and also has a tab dedicated to the sparge acidity. Tannin extraction is MOST dependent upon the pH of the water, not the gravity or the temperature. That's why in my recommendations above, the only place I needed to add the lactic acid was to the sparge water.
I have attached two PDFs of the Bru'n Water Spreadsheet with your grain bill and recipe entered for a 100% distilled water batch. I entered all the additions I recommended above so you can see how everything works out on paper.
View attachment LovesIPA Chemistry Sheet.pdf
View attachment LovesIPA Chemistry Sheet2.pdf
The way to use the spreadsheet is to enter your grain bill on the "mash acidification" tab, including the Lovibond number for each grain, as well as whether it is a base malt, crystal, or roast. The sheet will then be able to predict the pH of the mash properly. Once you see what the distilled water and grain is without any additions, you can use the sheet to add various additions to get the Ca and Sulfates where you want them, while making sure the pH hits the number you want.
Additionally, sparge water should be under 6 pH. That's why the sheet calculates it separately and also has a tab dedicated to the sparge acidity. Tannin extraction is MOST dependent upon the pH of the water, not the gravity or the temperature. That's why in my recommendations above, the only place I needed to add the lactic acid was to the sparge water.
I have attached two PDFs of the Bru'n Water Spreadsheet with your grain bill and recipe entered for a 100% distilled water batch. I entered all the additions I recommended above so you can see how everything works out on paper.
View attachment LovesIPA Chemistry Sheet.pdf
View attachment LovesIPA Chemistry Sheet2.pdf
LovesIPA, just for the record, these are the PDFs that show the water profile of the beer you made so you can see the low pH and the extremely high sulfate amounts that resulted.
Because you made the same additions in the same amounts to the sparge water which was greater in volume, you essentially created two completely different water profiles so I couldn't include it. But from my estimates, I believe your sparge water had the following profile:
pH: 5.4
Ca: 136
Sulfate: 327
View attachment LovesIPA BAD ADDITIONS.pdf
View attachment LovesIPA BAD ADITIONS 2.pdf
Because you made the same additions in the same amounts to the sparge water which was greater in volume, you essentially created two completely different water profiles so I couldn't include it. But from my estimates, I believe your sparge water had the following profile:
pH: 5.4
Ca: 136
Sulfate: 327
View attachment LovesIPA BAD ADDITIONS.pdf
View attachment LovesIPA BAD ADITIONS 2.pdf
divrguy
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Let me just say... I thinks it's all BS... Here's a summary!
I am absolutely stumped at why my beer continues to taste bad
I took apart the regulator last week and cleaned it. I didn't find a speck of dirt in it
I was at one of my favorite bars last night and had a pint of 101 North's Heroine IPA. I ordered a second one and had to wait for them to change the keg. The second pint tasted weird and had the same flavor profile to it that my beers have
C02? ...Yes, I've tried two different places
I've taken it to a LHBS and a brewpub/LHBS. They said they liked it and didn't taste anything wrong.
So sorry it wasn't what you were looking for. Maybe you feel better wasting someone's time with your useless post.
I didn't change the buckets - the beer was great out of the fermentor, but every piece of plastic that touched the beer post-fermentation was replaced. The list is pretty short - the only plastic or rubber pieces that the beer touches are the autosiphon and the keezer lines. Both of which I already replaced while trying to track this problem down.
I really think that the keg cleaning issue was it. The dry-hopping issue is separate from what I can tell. Now, the beers I make that aren't dry-hopped are coming out really good.
Water tastes fine. It's not the water
All equipment has been replaced
I've replaced everything multiple times
Oh I forgot to mention. I bleach bombed all my fermenters.
But since my batches are now coming out of the fermenter tasting bad, I it points me even more toward an infection, but this time I think it's coming from the plastic in the buckets.
In some cases, yes. I have seen white pellicle forming on top of batches
At this point, batches are not tasting good out of the fermenter, either.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This stuff aint really that hard but you seem to find a way to make it harder! Or are you just joshing...
Since I don't know you... I would swear we are all being punk'd and you are just off your rocker...but I don't know you and maybe you seriously need a new hobby.. No offense!
Cheers!
I am absolutely stumped at why my beer continues to taste bad
I took apart the regulator last week and cleaned it. I didn't find a speck of dirt in it
I was at one of my favorite bars last night and had a pint of 101 North's Heroine IPA. I ordered a second one and had to wait for them to change the keg. The second pint tasted weird and had the same flavor profile to it that my beers have
C02? ...Yes, I've tried two different places
I've taken it to a LHBS and a brewpub/LHBS. They said they liked it and didn't taste anything wrong.
So sorry it wasn't what you were looking for. Maybe you feel better wasting someone's time with your useless post.
I didn't change the buckets - the beer was great out of the fermentor, but every piece of plastic that touched the beer post-fermentation was replaced. The list is pretty short - the only plastic or rubber pieces that the beer touches are the autosiphon and the keezer lines. Both of which I already replaced while trying to track this problem down.
I really think that the keg cleaning issue was it. The dry-hopping issue is separate from what I can tell. Now, the beers I make that aren't dry-hopped are coming out really good.
Water tastes fine. It's not the water
All equipment has been replaced
I've replaced everything multiple times
Oh I forgot to mention. I bleach bombed all my fermenters.
But since my batches are now coming out of the fermenter tasting bad, I it points me even more toward an infection, but this time I think it's coming from the plastic in the buckets.
In some cases, yes. I have seen white pellicle forming on top of batches
At this point, batches are not tasting good out of the fermenter, either.
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This stuff aint really that hard but you seem to find a way to make it harder! Or are you just joshing...
Since I don't know you... I would swear we are all being punk'd and you are just off your rocker...but I don't know you and maybe you seriously need a new hobby.. No offense!
Cheers!
I am starting to wonder. The OP claims to be logical and methodical, but I can't see where! Lol
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The reason nothing makes sense is he's been fighting more than one problem at different points along the way and doesn't know it. That's my opinion anyway.
The first problem was his water. He had off flavors from the Glacier vending machines he was using. The article I linked to earlier pointed out they had amounts of chlorine and other minerals that exceeded the state guidelines for drinking water. There was even a law suit against Glacier for it. It involved the machines that were tested in his immediate geographical area. This was his source water. Of course it would cause off flavors. He just ruled them out right away because he assumed they had to be fine.
Next, when he finally gets around to using other water sources, he absolutely kills his mash pH and raises his sulfates to ridiculous levels like 500 ppm. Of course he ends up with off flavors again, and as he notes, now it "tastes bad out of the fermenter too." He chalks this up to a wild spreading infection that's getting into everything including his auto-siphon, completely ignoring the fact that once again, his water is complete crap, only this time by his own doing. And that's not speculation-- that's fact based on chemistry and what he posted above for grain bill, water additions, etc, on his distilled water batch.
His problem can't be infection. When I first started kegging, for 2 years I never took my keg apart. 12-15 batches, and the only thing I did to sanitize my keg was throw in an ounce of iodophor and fill with water. I let it sit for 30 minutes, dumped it out, gave it a rinse with a hose, and poured in the beer. Never had an infection. I dry hop, rack, ferment, and mill my grains in the same small basement room of my house. I never got an infection from that. When I rack to secondary, I fill a slop sink with cold water, add an ounce of iodophor, and sit my tubes and auto-siphon in there for 5 minutes, give them a rinse and use them. Same with my brew bucket, and it doesn't even submerge fully because the slop sink isn't deep enough. I just rotate it every 30 seconds so the iodophor water gets on every surface. Give it a rinse and I am good to go. Never an infection. I don't even own star-san. Never used it. I have been doing this 5+ years. There's no way he can be getting that many infections when his process is much more thorough than mine.
The first problem was his water. He had off flavors from the Glacier vending machines he was using. The article I linked to earlier pointed out they had amounts of chlorine and other minerals that exceeded the state guidelines for drinking water. There was even a law suit against Glacier for it. It involved the machines that were tested in his immediate geographical area. This was his source water. Of course it would cause off flavors. He just ruled them out right away because he assumed they had to be fine.
Next, when he finally gets around to using other water sources, he absolutely kills his mash pH and raises his sulfates to ridiculous levels like 500 ppm. Of course he ends up with off flavors again, and as he notes, now it "tastes bad out of the fermenter too." He chalks this up to a wild spreading infection that's getting into everything including his auto-siphon, completely ignoring the fact that once again, his water is complete crap, only this time by his own doing. And that's not speculation-- that's fact based on chemistry and what he posted above for grain bill, water additions, etc, on his distilled water batch.
His problem can't be infection. When I first started kegging, for 2 years I never took my keg apart. 12-15 batches, and the only thing I did to sanitize my keg was throw in an ounce of iodophor and fill with water. I let it sit for 30 minutes, dumped it out, gave it a rinse with a hose, and poured in the beer. Never had an infection. I dry hop, rack, ferment, and mill my grains in the same small basement room of my house. I never got an infection from that. When I rack to secondary, I fill a slop sink with cold water, add an ounce of iodophor, and sit my tubes and auto-siphon in there for 5 minutes, give them a rinse and use them. Same with my brew bucket, and it doesn't even submerge fully because the slop sink isn't deep enough. I just rotate it every 30 seconds so the iodophor water gets on every surface. Give it a rinse and I am good to go. Never an infection. I don't even own star-san. Never used it. I have been doing this 5+ years. There's no way he can be getting that many infections when his process is much more thorough than mine.
Thanks... I'm trying.
I feel bad for the guy. I think he's genuinely frustrated. But like I just posted, I think it isn't one problem but several that he's created in his pursuit of the first which no longer even exists.LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
I feel like you guys are dragging me around in circles.
Who said that I normally put a crapload of gypsum into distilled water???? It certainly wasn't me. I did this ONCE, for a poster in this thread who INSISTED that my water profile was the cause. I thought it was a stupid idea personally but I wanted to prove that the water wasn't the problem. Yes, I know it's far too much gypsum. I have never added that much gypsum to a batch EVER and I probably never will again.
A typical water profile that I use is this:
Ca+ 54 ppm
Mg+ 10.4 ppm
SO4- 101.2 ppm
Cl- 55 ppm
I already know how to use Bru 'n' water. I create a water profile for each and every batch depending on the style.
Who said that I normally put a crapload of gypsum into distilled water???? It certainly wasn't me. I did this ONCE, for a poster in this thread who INSISTED that my water profile was the cause. I thought it was a stupid idea personally but I wanted to prove that the water wasn't the problem. Yes, I know it's far too much gypsum. I have never added that much gypsum to a batch EVER and I probably never will again.
A typical water profile that I use is this:
Ca+ 54 ppm
Mg+ 10.4 ppm
SO4- 101.2 ppm
Cl- 55 ppm
I already know how to use Bru 'n' water. I create a water profile for each and every batch depending on the style.
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