Help my cider is bitter.

[Ramick2005]

I started with 10 gallons of fresh pressed cider and distributed that into two 6 gallon buckets. I crushed and added 5 Camden tablets to each bucket and waited 24+ hrs. I then added 2lbs of brown sugar a 1/2 can of apple concentrate and the yeast to each batch. I used Lavin D47 in one and WLP 775 in the other. I let them set in primary for 2 weeks then I racked them into carboys for secondary. they have been in secondary for about a week so I decided to try it. Well it was a bit more sour and bitter than I had expected. I will say I have a real sweet tooth so I may be overstating the bitterness. I didn't have a hydrometer when I started but these are the numbers I got tonight. ABV 0% Gravity 1.000 and Balling 0. I take it these numbers indicate the cider is done fermenting. I guess I am just curious if the cider will sweeten over time or if I am stuck with this bitter stuff. And if it I am stuck with it how do I sweeten it up next time. Any info or tips you could give me would be very much appreciated, thanks.

 

[Randzor]

You could add concentrate to it and pasteurize it. that will leave you with a still but sweet cider. See the sticky on top for more info.

 

[WilliamSlayer]

How to Sussreserve


Rack to a fresh carboy leaving all the settled out yeast and sediment behind.

Add:

1/2 tsp potassium sorbate per gallon.
1/4 - 1/2 tsp TOTAL potassium metabisulfite for the batch.

Add and stir gently. Give the cider 4-7 days.

Then rack to a fresh carboy and sweeten. If planning on kegging/force carbing, you can rack to the keg instead of a carboy.

This my proven method for Sussreserve.


As to how much to sweeten, that is very subjective. You should pull a sample, taste, and add sweetener slowly to your desired level. Then scale up for the entire batch.


I sweeten with more cider, usually in a ratio close to 1:5 or 1:6 (1 gal cider to 5 gal hard cider).


Its very easy to make a sweet cider... OR a carbonated cider. But a bit tricky to make one that is BOTH. To do that you must sweeten, then artificially carb (force carb), or sweeten with something non-fermentable (like splenda or xylitol), and bottle carb with priming sugar.

 

[Ramick2005]

Ok, I think I'm understanding this a bit more. First question is, can I use more campden tablets instead of the potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite. I take it the purpose is to kill any remaining yeast before I back sweeten. Second, If I use sugar, honey or something that is fermentable to back sweeten I cannot use corn surgar to ferment. Correct? Hmmm who knew this was so complicated.

 

[Randzor]

No campden tablets won't work. Most commercial yeast are immune to its effects in concentrations that do not effect taste. I do not know if/why you can't use corn syrup to back sweeten.

 

[Ramick2005]

Thanks, I will try to get some potassium sorbate/metabisulfite tomorrow.

 

[WVMJ]

The sorbate and metabisulfite are 2 different things, the sulfites help prevent bacterial growth and protect against oxidation, the sorbate keeps the yeast from reproducing but does not kill them off. Is your cider both bitter and sour or just sour? What kind of apples did you use? Maybe you got some high tannin apples in there, in which case your cider should age well and turn out to be very good later. WVMJ

 

[WilliamSlayer]

Ok, I think I'm understanding this a bit more. First question is, can I use more campden tablets instead of the potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite. I take it the purpose is to kill any remaining yeast before I back sweeten. Second, If I use sugar, honey or something that is fermentable to back sweeten I cannot use corn surgar to ferment. Correct? Hmmm who knew this was so complicated.

Campden IS metabisulfite (in tablet form). And it doesn't kill comercial strains of yeast (as stated). You must let ALL the yeast and sediment settle out, then start the Sussreserve process.

Sugar, honey, corn sugar, brown sugar etc.
All are fermentable and can also be used for sweetening. The great yhing about homebrew is that YOU get to pick what you like for flavor.

 

[Ramick2005]

So ALL yeast must be dead before I back sweeten, got it. Now just for my education why cant I carb in the bottle if I use fermentable sweeteners. I assume there is yeast in the corn sugar perhaps?

 

[TopgunTango]

So ALL yeast must be dead before I back sweeten, got it. Now just for my education why cant I carb in the bottle if I use fermentable sweeteners. I assume there is yeast in the corn sugar perhaps?

Your yeast will attempt to ferment out all of the fermentable sugars inside your bottle and cause it to explode, basically.

You also won't be able to carb in the bottle without enough active yeast. Sweet, sparkling ciders are usually force-carbed prior to bottling, having been sweetened after all the yeast reproduction has been stoppes using a combination of k-meta to prevent oxidation of your finished product during racking and bottling and potassium sorbate to inhibit yeast reproduction.

 

[docg]

I bottle carb, in champagne bottles, just need to keep it cold after or use pasteurization. My recipe is back sweetened with 2 cans of commercial apple juice concentrate to 5 gallons of fermented out AJ. Fill one Perrier bottle when bottling to know when to stop the carb up when the bottle is really hard , usually 3-4 days. I cold crash for a couple days to clear it before I bottle .Looks like champagne and is nice and dry but not too dry .....Pat